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[PJV3]

So Hammond now says he would vote to leave the EU. That's two high level members of the cabinet going against government policy. David's back must feel like a bit stabby today

They are losing the plot.

There is at least 2 years before they can do anything about it.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Two? Who was the first?

 

[killer_clank]

Two? Who was the first?

Gove.

 

[PJV3]

Two? Who was the first?

Gove and May both want out of the EU.
Although May is happy to wait for renegotiation to take place first.

What kind of state will the coalition be in, in a years time? Do the LibDem's stay all the way to the election.

 

[Gawge]

The BBC are now using the term "withdrawal of spare bedroom subsidy".

What a pathetic way of conforming to the government agenda. You either call it what it is, 'a bedroom tax", or you call it by the official name (under-occupancy penalty).

 

[Sage00]

The BBC are now using the term "withdrawal of spare bedroom subsidy".

What a pathetic way of conforming to the government agenda. You either call it what it is, 'a bedroom tax", or you call it by the official name (under-occupancy penalty).

That more accurately describe what it is. It isn't a tax.

 

[Gawge]

That more accurately describe what it is. It isn't a tax.

It was never anything like a subsidy, the government just came up with that when they realised it would get bad press.

It is a penalty for having a spare room (even if you had no choice).

 

[kitch9]

The BBC are now using the term "withdrawal of spare bedroom subsidy".

What a pathetic way of conforming to the government agenda. You either call it what it is, 'a bedroom tax", or you call it by the official name (under-occupancy penalty).

It's pathetic to call it a tax. The waiting list for social housing is huge, yet people expect to sit on their own in 3 bedroomed houses just "because."

Something needed to be done and no other government after this one will change this rule now it is in place as it is actually sensible.

 

[Gawge]

Something needed to be done and no other government after this one will change this rule now it is in place as it is actually sensible.

This has been happening since the 70s. Nobody is actually going to seriously overhaul the welfare/benefits system, they all just make small piecemeal changes.

 

[kitch9]

This has been happening since the 70s. Nobody is actually going to seriously overhaul the welfare/benefits system, they all just make small piecemeal changes.

Uhm, the changes that have been brought in across the benefits system are huge.

 

[Gawge]

Uhm, the changes that have been brought in across the benefits system are huge.

There has been no welfare system overhaul, or even so much of a suggestion. Within benefits there have certainly been large changes, but that is still a small part of what governments would really like to do - evaluate the whole welfare system.

IDS and his cronies have brought in this monthly payment thing. Mainly because he wondered how he would like the benefits system to work if he was unemployed, and he would like to budget (e.g. £0.00 on shampoo).

 

[CyclopsRock]

There have been huge changes, though they haven't all come to fruition yet. The universal payment system is significant imo - once it's fully instated, it should dramatically reduce the instances whereby marginal tax rates for going back to work are enormous. Anyone trying to characterise IDS as some hatchet wielding mental is declarative their ignorance about the man. More than anyone in the cabinet, imo, he's the because he genuinely cares about it and thinks his solution is a good one. I think the only other minister like that is Gove. All the rest have departments that are more or less arbitrary wrt to their abilities or interests.

Incidentally, suicides - even where their actual cause in the eyes of the victim is clear, as in the recent example - are important to look at, but their value in guiding policy is badly overstayed. People kill themselves sometimes if their partner breaks up with them - that an action has terrible personal impact on someone does not, in itself, mean the action itself is wrong. That's not to say they should be ignored, however.

 

[PJV3]

Build more social housing, this current policy is divisive and sick.

Turfing people out of homes and communities is bullshit. Tax, subsidy or whatever.

 

[kmag]

There have been huge changes, though they haven't all come to fruition yet. The universal payment system is significant imo - once it's fully instated, it should dramatically reduce the instances whereby marginal tax rates for going back to work are enormous. Anyone trying to characterise IDS as some hatchet wielding mental is declarative their ignorance about the man. More than anyone in the cabinet, imo, he's the because he genuinely cares about it and thinks his solution is a good one. I think the only other minister like that is Gove. All the rest have departments that are more or less arbitrary wrt to their abilities or interests.

Incidentally, suicides - even where their actual cause in the eyes of the victim is clear, as in the recent example - are important to look at, but their value in guiding policy is badly overstayed. People kill themselves sometimes if their partner breaks up with them - that an action has terrible personal impact on someone does not, in itself, mean the action itself is wrong. That's not to say they should be ignored, however.

IDS thinks his solution is a good one and isn't afraid to make up figures to support said solution. He's a cretin, a dangerous cretin. Gove is intelligent at least, but he too has a complete disconnect with facts when they go against his ideological positions. It doesn't matter how many reports and studies discredit his 1950's view of education, he's right and everyone else is pinko socialist union loving communist.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

http://paulbernal.wordpress.com/2013/05/09/mr-gove

 

[CyclopsRock]

IDS thinks his solution is a good one and isn't afraid to make up figures to support said solution. He's a cretin, a dangerous cretin. Gove is intelligent at least, but he too has a complete disconnect with facts when they go against his ideological positions. It doesn't matter how many reports and studies discredit his 1950's view of education, he's right and everyone else is pinko socialist union loving communist.

Hmm, this a pretty unnuanced stance. Firstly, he didn't 'make up figures', he had a different analysis of correct figures to the researchers. I think, as most do, that his analysis is at best premature but also very bad practice, but that's very different to making them up. His rapping on the knuckles was about the misuse of statistics, not the fact he made them up.

Wrt Gove, again, it's a bit more complex than that anything he disagrees with is communist. His view is that teaching has had its goals and methods of success waylaid over time. It's worth pointing out that he doesn't blame teachers for this, but if their schools are graded on the number of kids that get A-C, it's natural that they try and get the D kids up a grade rather than anyone else. It's this he has a problem with, and it's why he also doesn't put too much stock in certain facts. As we all know, A-Level grades get better every year, yet we've been slipping down the International rankings for some time. They both might be factual, but not all statistics are equally useful in diagnosing a malaise, especially when you see - as Gove does - the 'problem' to be endemic to the entire education system, from those setting the targets to those that measure the degree go which these goals see met. I know enough teachers that despise OFSTED for the negative impact it says on their schools to sympathise with him. Throw into this the civil war of OFSTED fighting to justify it's own existence whilst simultaneously being charged to measuring the success of the very government threatening to disband it's education policies, and you end up with a picture of 'fact' that's far less black and white than you seem to think it is.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Build more social housing, this current policy is divisive and sick.

Turfing people out of homes and communities is bullshit. Tax, subsidy or whatever.

I think we need to build more houses full stop. Social and non - social. We shouldn't be in a situation where a) people with jobs can't afford to rent privately without government assistance and b) those in social housing whose circumstances change to mean they no longer need all their rooms aren't offered a smaller one before they are - then, rightfully, imo - penalised for such use.

 

[PJV3]

The Tories should stop fucking around with the education system, it ideally should be decided cross party and educationalists should have a bigger say from the outset.

 

[PJV3]

I think we need to build more houses full stop. Social and non - social. We shouldn't be in a situation where a) people with jobs can't afford to rent privately without government assistance and b) those in social housing whose circumstances change to mean they no longer need all their rooms aren't offered a smaller one before they are - then, rightfully, imo - penalised for such use.

Agree with the first part.
I don't mind a voluntary system of downsizing, some tenants would probably go for it, but I am totally against the current policy.

I would also like the German system of renting private housing, more power for the tennant.

 

[Delusibeta]

Northern Ireland has plenty of empty houses...

 

[CyclopsRock]

Northern Ireland has plenty of empty houses...

Not as many as the Republic, nawhahwhawhw.

 

[8bit]

On Gove's Mr. Men speech :

http://www.activehistory.co.uk/gove.php

On Thursday of this week I was the subject of an attack by the Secretary of State for Education, Michael Gove, in what’s being called his “Mr. Men” speech. According to Mr. Gove, my approach to teaching is apparently symptomatic of all that is wrong with UK secondary education in general, and history teaching in particular. The following morning I found the story all over the national newspapers including the front page of The Times. Today, Mr. Gove repeated his criticisms on the BBC's Andrew Marr show.

Mr. Gove focuses on a particular activity on my website www.activehistory.co.uk in which students are required to produce children’s stories in the style of the well-known ‘Mr. Men’ books to explain the rise of Hitler. For Gove, this provides irrefutable evidence of the ‘infantilisation’ of history teaching and a 'culture of low expectations' (although as AaronStebbings puts it, "I imagine Michael Gove would have a go at George Orwell for using farmyard animals to explain the rise of the Soviet Union").

Gove and his advisors - either through stupidity or mischievousness - failed to place me, my website, or the lesson into its appropriate context. His criticisms betray a lack of knowledge, understanding, and interpretation that would make a GCSE History student blush with shame. Ironically, given Mr. Gove's supposed commitment to rigorous academic standards, it appears that much of his research comes from dodgy marketing surveys from Premier Inn and UKTV Gold (I kid you not)!

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/details_of_surveys_underpinning

 

[killer_clank]

I'm not a fan of this "IDS is really a good guy and his reforms are good because he really really believes what he's doing is right". Of course HE does, doesn't mean they are right.

 

[PJV3]

On Gove's Mr. Men speech :

http://www.activehistory.co.uk/gove.php



https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/details_of_surveys_underpinning

Gove is a fucking plank.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I'm not a fan of this "IDS is really a good guy and his reforms are good because he really really believes what he's doing is right". Of course HE does, doesn't mean they are right.

Sure, but that wasn't my point. I wasn't saying his policies are right because he believes them, I was saying - and feel free to go back and check my post if you like - that you can't characterise him as simply some hatchet-wielding cut-monster out to crimp benefits and lower the bill, in the way that I think you could (though not necessarily justly) with defence, transport etc. He's not some grinch figure or modern day scrooge, which seems to be a fairly consistent representation of him in any article that criticises his policies.

 

[travisbickle]

IDS is a compulsive liar. From lying about the university he attended to lying about where he receives his 'statistical information'; the man can't stop lying!

 

[operon]

The likes of Gove would watch Britain burn if they had the chance to rule over the ashes

 

[War Peaceman]

IDS is a compulsive liar. From lying about the university he attended to lying about where he receives his 'statistical information'; the man can't stop lying!

This seems more appropriate. Irrespective of whether he believes in the efficacy of his policies, he has continually mislead people.

He has persistently propagated incorrect stats and refused to follow up inquiries into said stats. (I linked to articles showing this earlier)

When a politician is officially rebuked for statistical misuse you know something is up.

 

[RedShift]

The likes of Gove would watch Britain burn if they had the chance to rule over the ashes

Wait, does this make Ed Balls Varys? Very ironic name in that case...

 

[operon]

Wait, does this make Ed Balls Varys? Very ironic name in that case...

Ed isn't that clever

 

[Jackben]

I was surprised this morning to hear PM Dave Cammy giving an interview on NPR (National Public Radio) concerning the economy and US-UK relations. He talked briefly about some US-EU trade deal that would add millions in trade and wealth infrastructure to both countries. Sounded interesting but I'll be surprised if it isn't mired in red type or ruined by US Admin trying to strong arm a deal too forcefully in our favor.

 

[kmag]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/may/13/michael-goves-claim-teenagers-ignorance

Must do better: D-

 

[QuicheFontaine]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/may/13/michael-goves-claim-teenagers-ignorance

Must do better: D-

Preeeeetty lame there Gove.

And UKTV Gold?? Do many teenagers watch UK Gold?

 

[PJV3]

Preeeeetty lame there Gove.

And UKTV Gold?? Do many teenagers watch UK Gold?

hey come on.
The Premier inn survey is internationally respected among the eduational establishment.

 

[travisbickle]

I get all my facts from adverts, what's wrong with that?

 

[QuicheFontaine]

hey come on.
The Premier inn survey is internationally respected among the eduational establishment.

Ah, it all makes sense now! All this time the "Premier" was referring to the quality of their survey's (sic), and not their shitty hotels.

 

[PJV3]

I'm trying to get my head around this multiple party candidate business. It's an odd thing to slip under the radar.

LibCon, ConKip etc.

What is the point?

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/isabel-hardman/2013/05/how-will-the-tory-leadership-deal-with-mps-wanting-a-ukip-pact/

The daily mail explained it better, but it's banned, so no linky.

The ballot paper can have multiple party symbols next to a name.

 

[Meadows]

UKIP councillor Eric Kitson's 'racist' Facebook posts probed

UKIP officials are investigating claims a new Worcestershire councillor posted offensive material about Muslim people on Facebook.

Eric Kitson, who won the Stourport-on-Severn seat on 2 May, said he shared racist cartoons and jokes only to show people how "disgusting" they were.

He said "with hindsight" it was "stupid" for him to share the messages, which were posted last year.

He has shut his Facebook account and said he was considering resigning.

Mr Kitson said he did not "have a racist bone in my body - it's just a bit of bloody stupidity".

The UK Independence Party councillor is alleged to have shared, among other things, a cartoon of Muslim people being burnt at the stake with copies of the Koran fuelling the flames.

Mr Kitson, who said he had "several Muslim friends and Jamaican friends", added: "I was saying, 'look at this, it's disgusting.

"People are looking at it now and seeing things differently."

He added: "With hindsight I should not have done what I did, but I did it because I just didn't agree with [those posts] and wanted other people to look and see if they agreed or didn't agree."

Mr Kitson said national attention over the issue had made him "feel really, really ill".

A UKIP spokesperson said the party was investigating.

The spokesperson said the issue had been discussed at a meeting of the party's national executive to establish how to conduct the investigation.

The matter is being dealt with at a national level, not just with the local party in Worcestershire, the spokesperson said.

West Mercia Police confirmed the force had been contacted about the matter.

A spokesperson said police had "asked for further information to be supplied so that we can look at it properly".

Worcestershire County Council's head of legal and democratic services, Simon Mallinson, said he would avoid commenting on any individual case but that elected members were expected to comply with the council's code of conduct.

He added: "Any complaint that this code has been breached when acting in such a role will be carefully considered."

.

 

[pulsemyne]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22518403


All hail the incoming shit storm!

 

[TCRS]

Our monarch has a tough job, reciting the language of bureaucrats and focus groups

hehe so true.

 

[PJV3]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22518403


All hail the incoming shit storm!

I wonder what these loons will focus on when the EU issue is finished with, how would they cope with a stay in the EU vote.

 

[CyclopsRock]

The backbenchers are idiots to try and force that. They know it can't pass whilst the Lib dems are in the coalition, all it does is weaken Cameron. Hugo Rifkind got it right when he said (not verbatim) that splitting your party on a big issue is sometimes necessary, but to do it over tactics is something else entirely.

 

[Acorn]

Good, its about time the right wingers fought amongst themselves. The left has been doing since its inception. Hopefully UKIP has a SDP effect on the election.

 

[PJV3]

Good, its about time the right wingers fought amongst themselves. The left has been doing since its inception. Hopefully UKIP has a SDP effect on the election.

UKIP grew in the latest elections by squeezing the fringe party vote, I don't see many more tories switching unless something seriously wrong happens to the party.

They're having a good go at it.

 

[Acorn]

UKIP grew in the latest elections by squeezing the fringe party vote, I don't see many more tories switching unless something seriously wrong happens to the party.

They're having a good go at it.

Selfishly I want to them to fight so much they end up on agreeing on some batshit far right platform that makes it easier for us to vote yes to getting out.

Ofcourse this would backfire horribly if we voted no.

 

[RedShift]

I know it's been said a million times, but planning a referendum in 2017 is basically a 'hey, nobody invest in the UK for 4 years' bill. Especially with this EU US Trade deal coming up.

Not to mention its completely useless, no parliament can bind the next parliament.

 

[Acorn]

I know it's been said a million times, but planning a referendum in 2017 is basically a 'hey, nobody invest in the UK for 4 years' bill. Especially with this EU US Trade deal coming up.

Not to mention its completely useless, no parliament can bind the next parliament.

Of course it makes no sense, but the papers don't demand sense, they demand senseless futile actions. Plus stifling investment in the uk for the next 4 years makes it easier to cut more services in the name of austerity.

Win Win for them.

 

[PJV3]

I know it's been said a million times, but planning a referendum in 2017 is basically a 'hey, nobody invest in the UK for 4 years' bill. Especially with this EU US Trade deal coming up.

Not to mention its completely useless, no parliament can bind the next parliament.

The sensible thing is to accept they are in a coalition and display a little patience for 2 years. If they want to blow everything Major style and lose the election, good for them.

They can argue all over again in 2020.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Theory: the Tory party is actually a bunch of accelerationist, entryist Marxists trying to bring on the revolution and the overthrow of the Capitalist system.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I know it's been said a million times, but planning a referendum in 2017 is basically a 'hey, nobody invest in the UK for 4 years' bill. Especially with this EU US Trade deal coming up.

Our balance of trade has been slowly but continuously shifting away from the EU for some time now. Last year more of our exports went to outside the EU than within in. Add in to this the fact that the EU actively hinders our ability to trade with some countries - Switzerland, for example, has significantly more trade with China in absolute terms than we do (with very little of it being financial services), despite its economy being over 5x smaller than ours in absolute terms - and I don't think it'd be quite the sky-falling doom-bringer that so many predict. In addition, there's also the fact that, when it comes to fundamental questions about democracy, accountability, independence etc (which a lot of pro-EU people don't put much stock in as an argument, but those wishing for a chance to give their opinion certainly do, and there are a lot of them), when is there such a thing as a good time?

Also, they can't bind the next parliament and they know that. Any deadline, whenever it's set, is not really for that parliament's sake, nor is it for the people of the UK to have a discussion, nor even is it for whatever select committee comes up with the wording of the question. The purpose of setting a date is so that Cameron can go to the EU with a giant calendar with 2017 circled with a red marker and say "There's the date, boys. Put your heads together, I'll be back next year and I want a deal!" People have under-estimated Cameron's international abilities before, and having an actual date of a referendum will be a powerful tool for anyone seeking to renegotiate our terms with the EU.