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UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.

K

kharma45

Member
Mr. Sam said:
Current students won't be affected by the rise in fees. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding.
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Yeah what we're paying at the minute is what we'll be paying until our course is finished, whether it's 3, 4 or 5 years etc.
 
W

Wes

venison crêpe
09000d5d81ba2254_gallery_600.jpg
 
dr_octagon

dr_octagon

Banned
'Genetic modification of the political landscape / mutations' - she needs to learn to drive first and then work on making a speech without resorting to such carp.

Why not just go all out of say it is a sieve where the flour of information is passed through after political shaking and you end up with an evil tory cake with jam layers of mismanagement, an icing of unfairness and a cherry of social unrest.
 
B

blazinglord

Member
dr_octagon said:
It's disappointing but not surprising, he's ITV quality and I'm surprised the BBC still keep him, his pro-Con stance and fawning over David Cameron is reason enough to tell him to gtfo.
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You evidently don't pay that much attention to the news. Boris has publicly disagreed with Cameron and contradicted official Conservative policy on a number of occasions (Boris' support for amnesty for illegal immigrants is one example). They are fundamentally quite different. Boris is a maverick and thrives on being effusive whereas Cameron is more old school and patrician in his manner.

They say Boris eventually wants to become Prime Minister. While he gets my vote over red Ken in 2012, I would worried that his undiplomatic and unconventional style would do to Britain's reputation what George W Bush did for America's. Still, it would be quite a novel experience to watch PMQs with Boris circumventing difficult questions by quoting Latin.
 
Z

Zenith

Banned
blazinglord said:
You evidently don't pay that much attention to the news. Boris has publicly disagreed with Cameron and contradicted official Conservative policy on a number of occasions (Boris' support for amnesty for illegal immigrants is one example). They are fundamentally quite different. Boris is a maverick and thrives on being effusive whereas Cameron is more old school and patrician in his manner.

They say Boris eventually wants to become Prime Minister. While he gets my vote over red Ken in 2012, I would worried that his undiplomatic and unconventional style would do to Britain's reputation what George W Bush did for America's. Still, it would be quite a novel experience to watch PMQs with Boris circumventing difficult questions by quoting Latin.
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?

He's talking about Nick Robinson and nothing in his post could be construed as commentary on Boris.
 
M

Mr. Sam

Member
It'd be worth having Boris Johnson as Prime Minister just to have Boris Johnson as Prime Minister. At least that's the conclusion I've come to after much in-depth analysis.
 
S

Salazar

Member
Mr. Sam said:
It'd be worth having Boris Johnson as Prime Minister just to have Boris Johnson as Prime Minister. At least that's the conclusion I've come to after much in-depth analysis.
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Seconded.

Stefan Collini eviscerates the Browne Report. Worth reading in whole.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v32/n21/stefan-collini/brownes-gamble

The character, but perhaps also the confusions, of this model come more clearly into focus if we return to the statement I quoted earlier which says: ‘Students are best placed to make the judgment about what they want to get from participating in higher education.’ Looked at more closely, this statement reveals itself to be a vacuous tautology because of its reliance on the phrase ‘want to get’. By definition, individuals are privileged reporters on what they think they want. The sentence could only do the work the report requires of it if it said something more like: ‘Students are best placed to make the judgment about what they should get from participating in higher education.’ But this proposition is obviously false. Children may be best placed to judge what they want to get from the sweetshop, but they are not best placed to judge what they should get from their schooling. University students are, of course, no longer children, but nor are they simply rational consumers in a perfect market.

It is fascinating, and very revealing, to see how Browne’s unreal confidence in the rationality of subjective consumer choice is matched by his lack of belief in reasoned argument and judgment. The sentence that immediately follows the vacuous one about students’ ‘wants’ reads: ‘We have looked carefully at the scope to distribute funding by some objective metric of quality; but there is no robust way to do this and we doubt whether the choices of a central funding body should be put before those of students.’ It is, first of all, striking that the only alternative envisaged to the random play of subjective consumer choice is an ‘objective metric of quality’, i.e. some purely quantitative indicator. And second, it is no less striking that instead of allowing that an informed judgment might be based on reasons, arguments and evidence, there are simply the ‘choices’ made by two groups, treated as though they are just two equivalent expressions of subjective preference. We can have the money for a national system of higher education distributed either in accordance with the tastes of 18-year-olds or in accordance with the tastes of a group of older people in London: there’s no other way to do it.
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B

blazinglord

Member
Zenith said:
?

He's talking about Nick Robinson and nothing in his post could be construed as commentary on Boris.
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Oops, my bad. I thought he was quoting the youtube link that showed Boris tackling a German on a football pitch. And I thought the dr_octagon's reference to the BBC was concerning Boris' regular appearances on Newsnight and Have I Got News For You.

travisbickle said:
It's not human nature, it's a theory, a mathematical theory developed by a paranoid schizophrenic.

I think we have had this conversation before: I believe that people are genuinely kind and willing to help, something that the Conservative's are also alluding to with the "big society". You believe everyone is a selfish individualist, "game theory" and all that neo-conservative (and new labour) bullshit.
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I don't recall having this conversation before, and nor do I wish to restart the existing one. But I came across this article by the darling of the left, David Mitchell and I couldn't resist not showing it to you - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/oct/31/david-mitchell-george-osborne-tax.

The key bit of the article I wanted to draw your attention to was this:
Along with George Osborne and "two other cabinet ministers", I avoid paying tax. Only saints and incompetents don't. Most people pay the minimum amount of tax they're legally required to and not a penny more. That's prudent tax avoidance not illegal tax evasion. Osborne is doing what any self-employed person who keeps receipts for stationery is also doing.
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That's all I wanted to say. But for the record, I do want to clear up that I am most definitely not a neo-conservative. Although I do accept that I am an individualist in line with classical liberal thinking, and with a healthy dose of non-interventionism.
 
Meus Renaissance

Meus Renaissance

Member
Question that's popped up in recent days in discussion circles, and even football grounds; does the Poppy glorify war? Two sides of the argument are presented below

Yes, it does

The poppy is nowadays used as a tribute to the military and what it continues to do, instead of being used as what it was originally intended to be: a symbol of remembrance for the absurd and meaningless waste of life that war entails.

A recent letter to The Guardian, signed by several veterans, made the same point. "The Poppy Appeal is once again subverting Armistice Day. A day that should be about peace and remembrance is turned into a month-long drum roll of support for current wars. This year's campaign has been launched with showbiz hype. The true horror and futility of war is forgotten and ignored.

The public are being urged to wear a poppy in support of "our Heroes". There is nothing heroic about being blown up in a vehicle. There is nothing heroic about being shot in an ambush and there is nothing heroic about fighting in an unnecessary conflict.
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No, it does not glorify it

People most of you do not even seem to understand what remeberance day is about. You seem to think that fi you buy a poppy you are supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan this is really not so.

Many people do wear them to remember their lost fathers or grandfathers who died in the war and remember that sacrifice.

It is sold to raise funds for the British Legion which helps injured and needy servicepersons and veterans. The money is not used to fund war.
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S

SmokyDave

Member
Meadows said:
What say you NeoGAF:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11704765

I'm trying to figure out what's not to like about this. I mean...it's a tory policy that actually seems non-evil. I'm sure it'll be something like "the workers have to also be whipped by a banker" or some bullshit that'll make me not like it.
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Perhaps unsurprisingly, I'm overwhelmingly in favour of this policy in theory. I say 'in theory' because our government simply do not have the bollocks to enforce anything like the restrictions that are truly needed. By the time the ink is dried the policy will have been neutered into utter ineffectiveness. I'd like to be proven wrong.

Already we're seeing this kind of shit...

The Archbishop of Canterbury has said that planned welfare changes could drive people "into a downward spiral of uncertainty, even despair".

Long-term benefit claimants could be forced to do manual labour under proposals to be outlined by Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith.

He is due to outline plans for four-week placements doing jobs like gardening and litter clearing.

But Dr Rowan Williams told The Andrew Peach Show on BBC WM why he is anxious about the plans.
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Oh no! Don't make people work for their money, it'll make them sad!

My piss, as usual, is boiling.
 
B

Bleepey

Member
SmokyDave said:
Perhaps unsurprisingly, I'm overwhelmingly in favour of this policy in theory. I say 'in theory' because our government simply do not have the bollocks to enforce anything like the restrictions that are truly needed. By the time the ink is dried the policy will have been neutered into utter ineffectiveness. I'd like to be proven wrong.

Already we're seeing this kind of shit...


Oh no! Don't make people work for their money, it'll make them sad!

My piss, as usual, is boiling.
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I knew it was you the moment i saw the last senteance.
 
S

SmokyDave

Member
Bleepey said:
I knew it was you the moment i saw the last senteance.
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I just can't help it. There are 3 things in this world that boil my piss.

1: The underclass created and perpetuated by the UK benefits system.

2: The fucking X Factor.

3: People that take an hour to use a cash machine.

Any of those 3 things takes me from 0 to Rage instantly.

I had to sit through an episode of the X Factor last night. I seriously contemplated throwing myself off the balcony. On the 5th floor. Head first.
 
J

J Tourettes

Banned
SmokyDave said:
I just can't help it. There are 3 things in this world that boil my piss.

1: The underclass created and perpetuated by the UK benefits system.

2: The fucking X Factor.

3: People that take an hour to use a cash machine.

Any of those 3 things takes me from 0 to Rage instantly.

I had to sit through an episode of the X Factor last night. I seriously contemplated throwing myself off the balcony. On the 5th floor. Head first.
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A chav watching X-Factor on his mobile whilst taking ages at the ATM sounds like a sure fire meltdown for you.
 
M

Meadows

Banned
I really hope that they don't make it embarrassing to do the work though, while studying my degree one of the things that has stuck me most is that societal humiliation tends to lead to marginalisation and violence. This was seen with the ASBO that was seen as a medal of honour for young hoodlums. I hope it is anonymous work that benefits the community and lets the person doing it receive plaudits for trying to enter the world of work.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Meadows said:
I really hope that they don't make it embarrassing to do the work though, while studying my degree one of the things that has stuck me most is that societal humiliation tends to lead to marginalisation and violence. This was seen with the ASBO that was seen as a medal of honour for young hoodlums. I hope it is anonymous work that benefits the community and lets the person doing it receive plaudits for trying to enter the world of work.
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Agreed, and i also hope it doesn't undermine jobs and the pay of people working for councils etc.
 
E

Empty

Member
30 hour a week placements for £65? That's £2.17 an hour, way to undermine the minimum wage and unfairly compensate the workers. I wonder how easy will it be for councils to fire a bunch of their employees who do things like litter collection then hire these people at £2.17 an hour to do their job. Either pay them minimum wage if you are going to force them into labour or don't do it at all.
 
M

Meadows

Banned
Empty said:
30 hour a week placements for £65? That's £2.17 an hour, way to undermine the minimum wage and unfairly compensate the workers. I wonder how easy will it be for councils to fire a bunch of their employees who do things like litter collection then hire these people at £2.17 an hour to do their job. Either pay them minimum wage if you are going to force them into labour or don't do it at all.
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I think that they should be doing stuff to make them more employable, like they get paid to clean litter, but also get free enrolment on council courses (every council has loads) doing something like learning sign language or first aid.
 
S

SmokyDave

Member
Empty said:
30 hour a week placements for £65? That's £2.17 an hour, way to undermine the minimum wage and unfairly compensate the workers. I wonder how easy will it be for councils to fire a bunch of their employees who do things like litter collection then hire these people at £2.17 an hour to do their job. Either pay them minimum wage if you are going to force them into labour or don't do it at all.
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Where on earth do you propose we find the money to pay minimum wage?

Something has to be done to stop benefits being a viable career choice. This is a good start. Speaking as someone that pre-dates minimum wage, I can't say as my heart bleeds at 30 hours for £65. If these people aren't happy, they're welcome to, you know, find a job.
 
S

Sneds

Member
SmokyDave said:
Where on earth do you propose we find the money to pay minimum wage?

Something has to be done to stop benefits being a viable career choice. This is a good start. Speaking as someone that pre-dates minimum wage, I can't say as my heart bleeds at 30 hours for £65. If these people aren't happy, they're welcome to, you know, find a job.
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You wouldn't have to find more money. You could just cut the number of hours they would be expected to work so that it is equivalent to the minimum wage.
 
C

Chinner

Banned
Meadows said:
care to elaborate leeds boy
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how else am i supposed to pay for prostitutes? whenever i normally approach a woman they point, scream and usually vomit before laughing at me.

i am the lonely :(
 
E

Empty

Member
SmokyDave said:
Where on earth do you propose we find the money to pay minimum wage?

Something has to be done to stop benefits being a viable career choice. This is a good start. Speaking as someone that pre-dates minimum wage, I can't say as my heart bleeds at 30 hours for £65. If these people aren't happy, they're welcome to, you know, find a job.
Click to expand...

Well i'd just reduce the hours they are forced to work per week till it meets number of hours of minimum wage work for £65 a week, as Sneds says.

I agree that something has to be done to reduce the long term unemployment. There have been examples of pilot schemes where working closely with the long term unemployed in local communities to get them into training schemes and back to work has been effective, as i think a breakdown in your motivation to work such that you have been unemployed for many years is a complex issue for people and is often passed down through generations making it hard to deal with, as you are fighting decades of bad parenting, environmental challenges, lack of culture of aspiration, built up feelings of low self-worth and poor education. I don't think that forcing them to clean up dog shit in local parks is going to be effective at teaching them to work, as it's just pure wage slavery which further demonizes work in their eyes by boring them to tears, and though it might be in the initial public good to see them helping the communities instead of watching Britain's Hardest Cunts or whatever on the tv, if they aren't going to pay minimum wage then this will have a distorting effect on the job market, especially when local council budgets are being cut quite significantly and they can choose to have their park cleaning service done for half the labour price without being forced to turn off voters by shutting down a swimming pool.
 
C

Chinner

Banned
i was also thinking; when it comes to making the next thread, how about we just make it a general uk thread where we can talk about anything?
 
G

gerg

Member
Chinner said:
i was also thinking; when it comes to making the next thread, how about we just make it a general uk thread where we can talk about anything?
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Megathreads died a long while ago Chin...

oh

Edit: Wait, you're not serious, right?
 
G

ghst

thanks for the laugh
Chinner said:
i was also thinking; when it comes to making the next thread, how about we just make it a general uk thread where we can talk about anything?
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i'm pretty happy with this being an x-factor free zone. both in discussion and clientele.
 
R

radioheadrule83

Banned
Empty said:
Well i'd just reduce the hours they are forced to work per week till it meets number of hours of minimum wage work for £65 a week, as Sneds says.

I agree that something has to be done to reduce the long term unemployment. There have been examples of pilot schemes where working closely with the long term unemployed in local communities to get them into training schemes and back to work has been effective, as i think a breakdown in your motivation to work such that you have been unemployed for many years is a complex issue for people and is often passed down through generations making it hard to deal with, as you are fighting decades of bad parenting, environmental challenges, lack of culture of aspiration, built up feelings of low self-worth and poor education. I don't think that forcing them to clean up dog shit in local parks is going to be effective at teaching them to work, as it's just pure wage slavery which further demonizes work in their eyes by boring them to tears, and though it might be in the initial public good to see them helping the communities instead of watching Britain's Hardest Cunts or whatever on the tv, if they aren't going to pay minimum wage then this will have a distorting effect on the job market, especially when local council budgets are being cut quite significantly and they can choose to have their park cleaning service done for half the labour price without being forced to turn off voters by shutting down a swimming pool.
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I agree. And I agree that they should be paid minimum wage - earning as much of their welfare payout as they can.

Even if they paid minimum wage it would have a distorting effect on the jobs market. We're talking about forcing people to work. Unpleasant council jobs can sometimes carry a surprising premium because no-one wants to do them... be it because they're not sanitary, they're not challenging/interesting or because they're just not worth it. When you can just force people to do those jobs, it will unnaturally drive wages down for those who *chose* to do them.

Tbh though, none of the people this is targetting are going to want to paint railings or clean up parks -- they're either going to become an even bigger, impoverished drain on society, or they're going to get off their arses and do something about it. I hope they don't dilute this policy too much, they should dilute it to the extent that they're paying minimum wage and they only make people work as many hours as it takes to earn their £65 (probably 14hrs or so).

Whatever happens - I'm thinking that if this goes through - benefit claimants are gonna get out and vote next time.
 
W

Wes

venison crêpe
"Harriet Harman endured a barrage of criticism from Labour MPs at a private meeting over her treatment of disgraced Phil Woolas, the Evening Standard has learned."

This is "extraordinarily serious" according to John Pienaar on 5Live. Excite!
 
M

mclem

Member
ghst said:
i'm pretty happy with this being an x-factor free zone. both in discussion and clientele.
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Well, I *was* tempted to start discussing Strictly in here. Hey, it has Widdecombe, it counts!
 
S

Strawman

Member
Empty said:
30 hour a week placements for £65? That's £2.17 an hour, way to undermine the minimum wage and unfairly compensate the workers. I wonder how easy will it be for councils to fire a bunch of their employees who do things like litter collection then hire these people at £2.17 an hour to do their job. Either pay them minimum wage if you are going to force them into labour or don't do it at all.
Click to expand...

Damn right
 
W

Walshicus

Member
Stuff like this infuriates me:
"Resources should be focused on improving the very low conviction rate of just 6% of reported cases, and ensuring that all victims have access to specialist support from a Rape Crisis Centre whether or not they choose to report."
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-11707903

No, resources fucking shouldn't be focused on this. They should be focused on improving the ACCURACY of convictions and acquittals, not the number of convictions. It's damaging to men to assume every acquittal is incorrect and an injustice.
 
M

Mr. Sam

Member
Bah, that sounds difficult. I think the best course of action is just to set a conviction quota. Yep. Don't see how that could go wrong. Quotas rule.
 
S

SmokyDave

Member
Meadows said:
KentPaul can't be happy about this news.
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Strangely enough, I think he's one of the few that might actually give the scheme a go and benefit from it.

No idea why I think that, just gut feeling.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Sir Fragula said:
Stuff like this infuriates me:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-11707903

No, resources fucking shouldn't be focused on this. They should be focused on improving the ACCURACY of convictions and acquittals, not the number of convictions. It's damaging to men to assume every acquittal is incorrect and an injustice.
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Of course accuracy is the most important thing, but i've seen first hand somebody being chewed up by the system(including the police handling her case) and it's fucking shocking.
They essentially made her feel it was a losing battle and even let one of the men leave the country so that only the junior partner got convicted.

She ended up in a mental hospital, one lives abroad the other spent 2 years behind bars.
I totally understand what you're saying but there is something wrong with how rape cases are dealt with by the system.
 
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