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UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.

Z

Zenith

Banned
Wes said:
"Harriet Harman endured a barrage of criticism from Labour MPs at a private meeting over her treatment of disgraced Phil Woolas, the Evening Standard has learned."

This is "extraordinarily serious" according to John Pienaar on 5Live. Excite!
Click to expand...

Says plenty about Labour that they're angry over someone so repulsive being fired.
 
phisheep

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
PJV3 said:
Of course accuracy is the most important thing, but i've seen first hand somebody being chewed up by the system(including the police handling her case) and it's fucking shocking.
They essentially made her feel it was a losing battle and even let one of the men leave the country so that only the junior partner got convicted.

She ended up in a mental hospital, one lives abroad the other spent 2 years behind bars.
I totally understand what you're saying but there is something wrong with how rape cases are dealt with by the system.
Click to expand...

You may well be right, but I don't think the problem is with the courts (where the blame is usually placed). Conviction rate for rape cases brought to crown court for trial is something like 70% last time I looked which, given the difficulties that there might be with evidence, seems pretty good going.

I dealt with a rather nasty aggravated rape case recently. The victim had, until she spoke to me, been entirely put off by all this misleading stuff about ridiculously low conviction rates. Seems to me that the propoganda of claiming the low conviction rate might be having the opposite effect to that that was intended.

Wes said:
"Harriet Harman endured a barrage of criticism from Labour MPs at a private meeting over her treatment of disgraced Phil Woolas, the Evening Standard has learned."

This is "extraordinarily serious" according to John Pienaar on 5Live. Excite!
Click to expand...

I do find it rather worrying the way many supporters of Woolas are going on about how the courts should not be able to remove elected MPs. After all, it was Parliament (not the courts) that made this an offence and, more than that, it was Parliament (not the courts) that made the punishment (election void and three years ban from public office) mandatory. Whining about it now doesn't change the fact that this is a properly passed Act of Perliament that he has been found guilty under.

There's no court discretion involved here at all.
 
S

Salazar

Member
Australian economist. Comments section is, as usual, good.

http://crookedtimber.org/2010/11/08/work-for-the-dole/

Faced with a sharp rise in unemployment since 2008, the Con-Lib government in Britain has diagnosed an epidemic of laziness, and announced measures to push the “work-shy” back into jobs. In particular, they’ve announced that those deemed not to be looking hard enough for work will be forced to undertake unpaid part-time work for community organizations.

Stripped of the punitive rhetoric, this is a cut down job-creation scheme, partly paid for by the unpaid labor of the participants. It’s hard enough to make job creation work well as a counter to unemployment, without adding in this kind of thing.

Australia has been there and done that. Following the discovery in the late 1990s that it played well with focus groups, John Howard (conservative PM) introduced a program explicitly called Work for the Dole and targeted initially at the young unemployed. It was a political success, but didn’t have any evident effects on unemployment. This evaluation of Work for the Dole and other programs suggests that it performed much less well than the explicit job creation and wage subsidy programs it replaced. Strikingly, given that the UK government is supposed to be on an austerity drive, the cost in the late 1990s was $2000-3000 per participant (around 1000 stg), on top of the benefit payment for which they were working.

But at least Howard’s moves came quite a few years into an expansion when it could credibly be claimed that there were jobs available for people willing to look hard enough. For a government that is busy creating unemployment to start attacking the “work-shy” requires a truly impressive level of hypocrisy.
Click to expand...
 
W

Wes

venison crêpe
You have to hear Harmann's third question in PMQs today. Absolutely hilarious :lol Equated Clegg to be a fresher at fresher week "being led astray by a strange man and doing something he will regret"
 
W

Wes

venison crêpe
The Student rally was going great until they started smashing windows. That'll be the story now. What a shame.

Protesting-students-gathe-006.jpg
 
C

Chinner

Banned
seeing as most of the people have turned tory in this thread i bet yo uguys are SICKENED by the fact that those lovely double glassed windows have been smashed letting all the heat out and now the crumpets are cold.
 
J

J Tourettes

Banned
Chinner said:
seeing as most of the people have turned tory in this thread i bet yo uguys are SICKENED by the fact that those lovely double glassed windows have been smashed letting all the heat out and now the crumpets are cold.
Click to expand...

A cold crumpet is a crime indeed.
 
W

Wes

venison crêpe
M

Meadows

Banned
Student politics, I'd argue as a student, are a complete waste of time and a reflection of the naivete that is rampant around university campuses, especially in political classes.

There isn't any negotiation or representation of views, just lets go to London and smash some windows and be self-righteous. Guess what, £9,000 a year is still worth it for what you get. Wankers.
 
M

MarshMellow96

Member
Meadows said:
Student politics, I'd argue as a student, are a complete waste of time and a reflection of the naivete that is rampant around university campuses, especially in political classes.

There isn't any negotiation or representation of views, just lets go to London and smash some windows and be self-righteous. Guess what, £9,000 a year is still worth it for what you get. Wankers.
Click to expand...

The protests were largely peaceful, apparently.

What course are you doing? It feels like I'm paying £3,500 to use an extensive library..
 
S

SmokyDave

Member
I'll never understand protesters.

Is it really that difficult to get your point across without putting fucking windows through?

All that says to me is that the funding allocated to your education was wasted.

Edit: More importantly, UK-Gaf, Claudia Winkelman or Suzi Perry?

I've been trying to decide and I've come to the following conclusion; if we're on the way to the party, making small talk in the car, I want Perry. During the party, if we're having a meal and a nice chat with friends, I want Perry. Once the party wakes up and the drinks start flowing, I want Winkelman. When it comes to leaving the party after much wine, definitely Winkelman. When I wake up in the morning and take my chances on a cheeky blowjob, again, Winkelman.

Given that, for me, Winkelman beats Perry 3-2. Winkelman wins.
 
louis89

louis89

Member
I didn't think it was possible, but I think I actually support their cause even less now. Travelling down to London and smashing up windows and injuring people, because you think it's that unreasonable for someone who earns £21,000 to pay 9% of their salary each month to pay for their three or four years at university?

There is no reason why being poor before going to university, with the higher cap on fees brought in, should result in you being unable to go.
 
scotcheggz

scotcheggz

Member
Just looking through the images and reading all about the protest. It's kind of a shame about all the violence, since the media will pounce on that like no ones business, ignoring the real issue as always. The guardian is doing the same, but at least looking through all the pictures (off the frontpage) there is a fair amount images from the peaceful majority.

One of the placards: "Cameron and Clegg - Putting the "N" in "CUTS"

:lol :lol :lol
 
R

RedShift

Member
I would have been on the march if I hadn't had a lot of work that needed doing.

Despite being massively in support of the Lib Dems before the election there's no way I'm voting for them while Clegg is in charge. You can't trust politicains who sign pledges to not do something before an election and then endorse it after the election.

Why are people acting like all of the 50,000 people marching today were smashing windows?
 
Z

Zenith

Banned
SmokyDave said:
I'll never understand protesters.

Is it really that difficult to get your point across without putting fucking windows through?

All that says to me is that the funding allocated to your education was wasted.
Click to expand...

you that blind or suffering so much from confirmation bias that you think all the protestors were involved in nothing but vandalism?

and you talk about wasted education.
 
K

Killamangiro

Member
Yeah I got caught in the G20 protests a couple years back. Mass protests just attract nutjobs from everywhere and it is them who end up smashing things. I highly doubt it were students doing the vandalism
 
D

Dabanton

Member
RedShift said:
Why are people acting like all of the 50,000 people marching today were smashing windows?
Click to expand...

Because they only see things in black or white it seems.

I had friends go along today and it was going peacefully. but all it takes is a few idiots to start a bit of DIY 'anarchy' and there you go.

Of course lets blame ALL students shall we.
 
E

Empty

Member
scotcheggz said:
One of the placards: "Cameron and Clegg - Putting the "N" in "CUTS"

:lol :lol :lol
Click to expand...

apparently someone has one saying

"Kay Burley is what you get when you don't invest in education"
 
W

Wes

venison crêpe
Killamangiro said:
Yeah I got caught in the G20 protests a couple years back. Mass protests just attract nutjobs from everywhere and it is them who end up smashing things. I highly doubt it were students doing the vandalism
Click to expand...

Exactly but all the media will report is "student riots!" even though it's not the case. In fact most of the students there probably condemned the violence saying it just detracts from their message. Which it has done.

This issue in particular angers me. Grrrrrr.
 
D

Dark Machine

Member
louis89 said:
because you think it's that unreasonable for someone who earns £21,000 to pay 9% of their salary each month to pay for their three or four years at university?

There is no reason why being poor before going to university, with the higher cap on fees brought in, should result in you being unable to go.
Click to expand...

If I'd had to pay the £9000 a year fees, I'd be unemployed with £45,000 worth of debt at least instead of around £28,000 I have now. I went to a Uni outside my hometown so had to have maintenance loans too in case you're wondering about the figures. All that gathers interest as well by the way. If I marry another student, that means around £90,000 debt between us before we even get a house, or car, or anything else. I don't understand the point personally of charging interest on a student loan, if you're going to take money out of my salary anyway to pay it like a tax, then why charge interest? If they didn't then at least I'd have some hope of paying it back and might even be more motivated to do so. Also maintainance loans will have to go up, since accomodation companies/landlords like to increase rent in line with tuition fees. They won't go up to £9000 a year, but they'll go up.

Anyway, my most major gripe about this is that the student fees are trebling, but students will see no benefit from this, because it (at current intake numbers) will just about cover the amount of money the government is removing from the higher education budget. In effect, students will get the same standard and resources for their courses I got, for treble the price. That's not fair. I was wondering if anyone would get off their arse and protest about it though, since in the UK we have a habit of just shrugging and taking whatever the government/companies wants to shaft us with. The vodafone protests were small, but good to see too. The message I'm getting from this government seems to be, "Don't tax the rich, tax the lower-middle, no-one gives a shit about them anyway."
 
M

Meadows

Banned
how about a bit of peaceful protest and writing letters to your MPs you wankers. Oh, let's break into the Tory HQ and smash everything up. That'll help middle England support the cause. Oh wait, no it'll ensure that students get an even worse deal.

I bet 90% of the people at the protest don't even know their MPs name, and a fair number probably didn't even vote. Dickheads.
 
M

MarshMellow96

Member
Meadows said:
how about a bit of peaceful protest and writing letters to your MPs you wankers. Oh, let's break into the Tory HQ and smash everything up. That'll help middle England support the cause. Oh wait, no it'll ensure that students get an even worse deal.

I bet 90% of the people at the protest don't even know their MPs name, and a fair number probably didn't even vote. Dickheads.
Click to expand...

What's next? Paying for the broken windows with their allowance?
 
R

radioheadrule83

Banned
I'm tempted to blow £400-500+ on a holiday just for myself, alone, just to get out of this depressing shithole of a country for a while. It would be on a credit card and therefore with money I don't have, and see me paying for it for several months but I feel it might be necessary...

At least our students make funny placards.
 
M

Meadows

Banned
radioheadrule83 said:
I'm tempted to blow £400-500+ on a holiday just for myself, alone, just to get out of this depressing shithole of a country for a while. It would be on a credit card and therefore with money I don't have, and see me paying for it for several months but I feel it might be necessary...

At least our students make funny placards.
Click to expand...

go to Taiwan, it's fun!
 
louis89

louis89

Member
Dark Machine said:
If I'd had to pay the £9000 a year fees, I'd be unemployed with £45,000 worth of debt at least instead of around £28,000 I have now. I went to a Uni outside my hometown so had to have maintenance loans too in case you're wondering about the figures. All that gathers interest as well by the way. If I marry another student, that means around £90,000 debt between us before we even get a house, or car, or anything else. I don't understand the point personally of charging interest on a student loan, if you're going to take money out of my salary anyway to pay it like a tax, then why charge interest? If they didn't then at least I'd have some hope of paying it back and might even be more motivated to do so. Also maintainance loans will have to go up, since accomodation companies/landlords like to increase rent in line with tuition fees. They won't go up to £9000 a year, but they'll go up.

Anyway, my most major gripe about this is that the student fees are trebling, but students will see no benefit from this, because it (at current intake numbers) will just about cover the amount of money the government is removing from the higher education budget. In effect, students will get the same standard and resources for their courses I got, for treble the price. That's not fair. I was wondering if anyone would get off their arse and protest about it though, since in the UK we have a habit of just shrugging and taking whatever the government/companies wants to shaft us with. The vodafone protests were small, but good to see too. The message I'm getting from this government seems to be, "Don't tax the rich, tax the lower-middle, no-one gives a shit about them anyway."
Click to expand...
People like to complain about having so much "debt" (speech marks because it's nothing like normal debt owed to say, a bank), but nobody seems to be able to explain why having such debt actually matters, when all it is is 9% from your salary when you earn £21,000 or more, automatically taken out as if it was tax. You don't have to care about whether you pay it all back or not (it's wiped out after 30 years), and you don't have to be "motivated" to do anything - again, it is taken out of your paycheque automatically without you ever seeing it. As for your house and car, all it means is that you'll have 9% less money each year to save for it. Which by the way, is the same as the current system - the only difference with this new system is that you'll be paying 9% for longer.
 
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