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[radioheadrule83]

More on corporate tax avoidance:

http://www.private-eye.co.uk/sections.php?section_link=in_the_back&issue=1277

Raaaage rising

Seriously needs to be a big campaign against the companies and men guilty of this. Slapping fliers on their shop windows pointing out their tax avoider status, advising people how to get out of Vodafone contracts, really big symbolic campaign...

I don't feel so bad about TopShop Oxford Street getting smashed up

 

[SFA_AOK]

Having a read of the Guardian live blog, seriously depressing at the difference between what happens on the ground versus what we hear about:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education...milla-attack-aftermath-live#start-of-comments

Check out 1.43pm, 12.48pm, 12.10pm (second comment), 11.38am, 11.34am and others.

There's a comment from professor at Brighton Uni who says the strategy was to scare/intimidate people into not protesting again (see comment at 11.46am). IMO, it was also to increase the volatility until it kicked off.

I'm not saying all police are scum or that they all act this way etc etc, however, I have friends and family in the Met and from talking with them, it's pretty obvious that the force has a fair share of thugs in uniform.

 

[CrankyJay]

Heh, just saw footage of riots going on over there. What's going on? Something about tripling the cost of college? Saw a bunch of protesters wearing V for Vendetta masks. :lol

 

[Chinner]

i have no problem in saying that the police are scum. they think they're above the law. everything i've seen from these protests only reinforces this.

 

[Starwolf_UK]

This the same government that has announced cuts to higher education funding by up to 80%; for me this hike only serves to justify that loss of funding. What makes it worse is that it is only English students who are to suffer the debt; the welsh and the scottish are both better off. So solutions exist in Britain within British universities, unless you are English it seems.

The hike is exactly that (unless the Universities are to get money out of thin air) and I understand that was going through regardless so a no vote would force Universities to shut. As for the latter point, thats devolution of power. Wales and Scotland value higher education more in the sense that Scotland will give to free to anybody studying at a Scottish university provided they were educated in Scotland since 16 or are from the EU (thanks to the rule that EU students pay the fee local students would) any and Wales will subsidise anything above £3000. Thoughh as a result of this Scotland and Wales could suffer in different ways (I don't know what their budgets are like).

One thing I'm struggling to understand is how does this cut the defectit in any way. Don't the loans count as government debt which repayment will not start until 2016...i.e. new government time.

The education situation has mainly been caused by Labour encouraging literally everyone to go to University, whether it was appropriate or beneficial for them or not.

To be fair all the Polytechnics becoming universities lead to this. The people that went to such places don't just disappear. Still its annoying that instead of them getting qualifications that really help them and the country in their workplace they instead get a third or a diploma in something that only vaugely helps them.

So when did the Polytechnics changing occur and why? The Further and Higher Education Act 1992 made it so. It also gave the places the power to award their own degrees.

 

[louis89]

One thing I'm struggling to understand is how does this cut the defectit in any way. Don't the loans count as government debt which repayment will not start until 2016...i.e. new government time.

The proposals aren't primarily about cutting the deficit (though the government will clearly save money in the long run). They're about providing better a better model of funding for universities so that they can continue to expand and compete internationally. Don't forget that the Browne review was commissioned by Labour, before the Conservatives were ever in power. Universities being able to charge £9000 gives them a significant cash boost - the Russel Group of research focused universities has welcomed the proposals.

Having 50% of kids going to university, and having them only pay £3000 a year for it, is unsustainable. That's what this is really about.

 

[Chinner]

imo we should have a test like when your 12 and if you pass you can go to uni and if you fail you don't and you can just do manual labor for the test of your life.

 

[DECK'ARD]

To be fair all the Polytechnics becoming universities lead to this. The people that went to such places don't just disappear. Still its annoying that instead of them getting qualifications that really help them and the country in their workplace they instead get a third or a diploma in something that only vaugely helps them.

So when did the Polytechnics changing occur and why? The Further and Higher Education Act 1992 made it so. It also gave the places the power to award their own degrees.

Yeah, the change to Polytechnics definitely set foundations for what has happened. It was done because they were seen as a second-class education, they were referred to as a joke. So the intent was right, but again not much long-term thinking was done about it. As is always the case with political parties.

From what we've seen locally though with Bournemouth, which was one of the Polytechnics, it's sort of grown exponentially. It's been one of the fastest growing Uni's. The last 5 years especially have seen it explode, the town is very different to what it was before. Student accommodation and halls have been built everywhere. The Uni has a good reputation for itself, and the town is now party central which is also a good thing But as you say, the other side of it is there are clearly students not cut out for it, or doing courses which have questionable merit. It's just an automatic assumption to go to Uni, and with more people going the more a degree is seen as essential for a lot of jobs. So it sort of feeds itself, and devalues degrees in the process.

There's been a lot of playing politics with education, to see as many people going through University as possible for political point-scoring, but without long-term thinking into how it could be sustained. Or as much thought put into vocational education, so you have a similar second-class thing going on in that area as to what you had with the Polytechnics before.

It was all going to need a big rethink at some point, the problems with the economy just accelerated it all.

 

[radioheadrule83]

imo we should have a test like when your 12 and if you pass you can go to uni and if you fail you don't and you can just do manual labor for the test of your life.

We should re-open the mines, not to mine for anything per se, but just so we have a place to send our SATS failures

 

[Jenga]

We should re-open the mines, not to mine for anything per se, but just so we have a place to send our SATS failures

why not just use them as an organ farm

 

[radioheadrule83]

If we built a complex of giant hamster wheels hooked up to magnetic coils they could even be put to work to help alleviate the burden on the national grid

much better than gaudy looking wind farms!

 

[JonnyBrad]

One good point was made about the protesters on the daily politics. If this was an EDL (English Defence League) they would be forced to uncover their faces or get arrested. That hasn't happened in these student marches and i think it should as i think a number of the rioters aren't really there caring about fees and more so just want to have a rumble.

 

[industrian]

My MP - whom I voted for - Michael Moore voted for the rise in tuition costs.

This has the West Lothian Question written all over it. But since Labour aren't in power I guess no-one gives a fuck.

 

[RedShift]

One good point was made about the protesters on the daily politics. If this was an EDL (English Defence League) they would be forced to uncover their faces or get arrested. That hasn't happened in these student marches and i think it should as i think a number of the rioters aren't really there caring about fees and more so just want to have a rumble.

Have you been outside in the last fortnight? There's a much better reason to cover your face than to protect your identity, especially when you're trapped in a kettle until 2.30am or whenever it was.

 

[BGBW]

imo we should have a test like when your 12 and if you pass you can go to uni and if you fail you don't and you can just do manual labor for the test of your life.

That and you can't go on the whole Internet, only specified areas to provide material for the geniuses to laugh at.

 

[Numpt3]

Disgusting.

 

[JonnyBrad]

Have you been outside in the last fortnight? There's a much better reason to cover your face than to protect your identity, especially when you're trapped in a kettle until 2.30am or whenever it was.

Yes and i wear a beanie. I don't see the need to cover my face completely apart from some slits for my eyes. Nor does anyone else round here.

 

[radioheadrule83]

One good point was made about the protesters on the daily politics. If this was an EDL (English Defence League) they would be forced to uncover their faces or get arrested. That hasn't happened in these student marches and i think it should as i think a number of the rioters aren't really there caring about fees and more so just want to have a rumble.

They kept people in the Westminster bridge area until the early hours and only let people leave in small numbers (one or a few at a time) - because they were taking photographs of everyone and taking their names before letting them leave. Very big brother, but I suspect thats why the police seemed to stand by while the idiots among them smashed things etc, they were being watched, and now they'll have a lot of the trouble makers in crystal clear photographs etc.

 

[JonnyBrad]

They kept people in the Westminster bridge area until the early hours and only let people leave in small numbers (one or a few at a time) - because they were taking photographs of everyone and taking their names before letting them leave. Very big brother, but I suspect thats why the police seemed to stand by while the idiots among them smashed things etc, they were being watched, and now they'll have a lot of the trouble makers in crystal clear photographs etc.

Good.

 

[industrian]

Oh, fuck you, random person:

I would have knocked them the fuck out after they stopped doing that.

There's a shocking lack of respect for our veterans in this country. Especially from young fuckers like them who were born in the 90s.

 

[Numpt3]

I would have knocked them the fuck out after they stopped doing that.

There's a shocking lack of respect for our veterans in this country. Especially from young fuckers like them who were born in the 90s.

If it wasn't for the people who that cenotaph commemorates that stupid idiot wouldn't even have the freedom to protest. :/

Edit: Is it a boy or a girl? I can't tell. :lol

 

[DECK'ARD]

If it wasn't for the people who that cenotaph commemorates that stupid idiot wouldn't even have the freedom to protest. :/

Edit: Is it a boy or a girl? I can't tell. :lol

Tricky to tell isn't it!

Apparently though:

"THE son of legendary Pink Floyd guitarist David Gilmour has apologised for climbing the Cenotaph during yesterday's student protests."

What a twat.

 

[Deku]

The proposals aren't primarily about cutting the deficit (though the government will clearly save money in the long run). They're about providing better a better model of funding for universities so that they can continue to expand and compete internationally. Don't forget that the Browne review was commissioned by Labour, before the Conservatives were ever in power. Universities being able to charge £9000 gives them a significant cash boost - the Russel Group of research focused universities has welcomed the proposals.

Having 50% of kids going to university, and having them only pay £3000 a year for it, is unsustainable. That's what this is really about.

It's surprising that British students treat fare increases with such contempt.

We had our fee increase here in British Columbia, on a provincial level, in 2001. There was a lot of rhethoric, and the left cried bloody murder, but most students understood and bore the cost.

For such a small place, we have some of the best universities in the world, and their rankings and scale have increased since 2001 due to increased cashflow.

I suspect when activists speak of accessibility, they aren't thinking about quality, and they'd imagine its something that just happens automatically.

 

[industrian]

If it wasn't for the people who that cenotaph commemorates that stupid idiot wouldn't even have the freedom to protest. :/

I was trying to verbalise this in my post, but I'm drunk and my day job is 90% creative writing so I can't be assed.

My dad was a soldier, my friends are soldiers. They're the ones who made a promise to protect this country and all the dickheads who live inside it, and we should appreciate them for it instead of just saying "lol, high school drop out going to Afghanistan, lol."

 

[Songbird]

Good.

Good? Really? These people aren't the EDL. The people who got kettled on the bridge were by and large the placard waving bunch who didn't do a thing. A far cry from EDL fascists.

imo all these people at the protests are scum and should be executed.

I know, right? And let's stifle dissent by taking photographs of peaceful protesters and making them into public enemies!

 

[Chinner]

imo all these people at the protests are scum and should be executed.

 

[SmokyDave]

imo all these people at the protests are scum and should be executed.

I'm so proud of you, as if you were my own.

Good? Really? These people aren't the EDL. The people who got kettled on the bridge were by and large the placard waving bunch who didn't do a thing. A far cry from EDL fascists.

Neither group has made their point effectively and neither group appears to have a solution to the 'problems' that they perceive. As the students are supposed to be the brightest minds in our country, caring deeply about their education, and the EDL are just a bunch of Rottweilers in bomber jackets, I'd say the students were the bigger bunch of knobheads. Especially since I'd be willing to bet that these protests have caused more damage and cost the taxpayer more than any rally held by the EDL.

 

[Songbird]

Neither group has made their point effectively and neither group appears to have a solution to the 'problems' that they perceive. As the students are supposed to be the brightest minds in our country, caring deeply about their education, and the EDL are just a bunch of Rottweilers in bomber jackets, I'd say the students were the bigger bunch of knobheads. Especially since I'd be willing to bet that these protests have caused more damage and cost the taxpayer more than any rally held by the EDL.

And "students" as a whole are entirely responsible? Yes, some bastards ruined it all and my stepdad (a soldier) is going to have some choice words for me this christmas for being at uni, but you're missing the point of the protests. The biggest minds of the country weren't the ones pissing on Churchill or swinging on the cenotaph, they were battered by police and kettled. The EDL intend for every event to "shake things up." This was meant to be a show of opposition, not a battle. I thought you were better than this Smoky.

 

[Chinner]

I'm so proud of you, as if you were my own.

can i call you dad from now on

?

 

[ATF487]

Does anyone have an in depth article explaining the new fee system? All I hear about is the protests but I want to see info about the interest rate specifically

 

[Veidt]

Oh, so this is why nobody was in lectures today.

3000-9000, it doesn't really make a difference. If anything, they should be protesting the existence of a tuition fee in the first place.

Of course, they could also have voted smart. I'm just enjoying this shit right now.

I look forward to Labour taking their rightful place again, as rightful ruler.

Britain has no King, Nick Clegg...Britian needs no King.

 

[louis89]

Oh, so this is why nobody was in lectures today.

3000-9000, it doesn't really make a difference. If anything, they should be protesting the existence of a tuition fee in the first place.

Of course, they could also have voted smart. I'm just enjoying this shit right now.

I look forward to Labour taking their rightful place again, as rightful ruler.

Britain has no King, Nick Clegg...Britian needs no King.

Just out of curiosity, which party do you think introduced tuition fees and top-up fees?

 

[gutter_trash]

you guys voted in the Torries, you deserve service cuts and the fees being raised just for that act

don't like it? then don't vote in Conservatives

 

[Chinner]

you guys voted in the Torries, you deserve service cuts and the fees being raised just for that act

don't like it? then don't vote in Conservatives

don't blame me, i voted bnp.

 

[Empty]

Does anyone have an in depth article explaining the new fee system? All I hear about is the protests but I want to see info about the interest rate specifically

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11483638

 

[Mr. Sam]

I voted Green. I couldn't believe it when they didn't have enough MPs to form a government.

 

[Speedymanic]

If it wasn't for the people who that cenotaph commemorates that stupid idiot wouldn't even have the freedom to protest. :/

Edit: Is it a boy or a girl? I can't tell. :lol

It's a boy.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/uk...QIrX2jAwKL4iNz6IQ?docId=N0077861291987129088A

:/

 

[Linkified]

you guys voted in the Torries, you deserve service cuts and the fees being raised just for that act

don't like it? then don't vote in Conservatives

I don't actually have a problem with the cuts, I also blame Labour for spending excess which they didn't have and then leaving a joke message at the treasury that there was no cash left and other things they did.

 

[ghst]

It's a boy.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/uk...QIrX2jAwKL4iNz6IQ?docId=N0077861291987129088A

:/

The Cambridge University history student said he did not realise it was the Cenotaph

huh.

 

[Chinner]

I don't actually have a problem with the cuts, I also blame Labour for spending excess which they didn't have and then leaving a joke message at the treasury that there was no cash left and other things they did.

labour started spending more in response to the recession, and the tories supported this move back in the day.

 

[Glowingmonx]

Some of these pics are amazing

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/12/london_tuition_fee_protest.html

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

They kept people in the Westminster bridge area until the early hours and only let people leave in small numbers (one or a few at a time) - because they were taking photographs of everyone and taking their names before letting them leave. Very big brother, but I suspect thats why the police seemed to stand by while the idiots among them smashed things etc, they were being watched, and now they'll have a lot of the trouble makers in crystal clear photographs etc.

To be honest the kettling the police engage in would infuriate me to the point of violence.

Oh, those poor Royals... riding around in their bulletproof cars and living a life of luxury whilst people become destitute in light of cutbacks and the economic decline. They certainly are worthy of our sympathy...

 

[Linkified]

labour started spending more in response to the recession, and the tories supported this move back in the day.

You don't spend more if you waste in an organization though, you cut the waste then spend.

 

[louis89]

Some of these pics are amazing

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/12/london_tuition_fee_protest.html

Holy shit!

 

[Veidt]

Just out of curiosity, which party do you think introduced tuition fees and top-up fees?

I always thought it was Labour.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/londonprotest_12_10/l24_26268619.jpg

Holy shit!

There's something about it that just sickens me to the core. I think it's because I view them not as individuals but as the government's domestic muscle. They herd us like fucking cattle and wonder why people get so riled up.

Fuck 'em all.

 

[Salazar]

There's something about it that just sickens me to the core. I think it's because I view them not as individuals but as the government's domestic muscle. They herd us like fucking cattle and wonder why people get so riled up.

Fuck 'em all.

Mega-derp. Oooh no, policemen in black with shields and helmets. They should let protesters go where they want :lol

 

[ATF487]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11483638

Thanks for this!

Each month graduates would pay back 9% of their income above that threshold.

The subsidised interest rate at which the repayments are made - currently 1.5% - will be raised. Under a "progressive tapering" system, the interest rate will rise from 0 for incomes of £21,000, to 3% plus inflation (RPI) for incomes above £41,000.

If the debt is not cleared 30 years after graduation, it will be wiped out.

That part specifically is worrying, because it seems like

1) You will just be bleeding money out for ages, if they're only taking the money above the threshold. Much more will end up accruing
2) They punish you (in a different way) for making more, and they are actively discouraging you from making voluntary payments earlier because of the progressive interest rate

Should have made it like the Australian system where you get discounts for voluntary payments above 500 and with only the CPI recalculation added to the loan amount...

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Mega-derp. Oooh no, policemen in black with shields and helmets. They should let protesters go where they want :lol

We respect your right to protest but only if you do it exactly where we tell you so no one will hear or see you.

Fuck off.

 

[Salazar]

We respect your right to protest but only if you do it exactly where we tell you so no one will hear or see you.

Fuck off.

The protesters seem to have been seen and heard quite a bit :lol

But you still bitch.