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UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.

:lol @The UK building anything transport wise that will ultimately benefit the consumers. I may be naive but I have spent too much too wasted hours on the next new thing that cost 100's of millions to implement.

The next thing I am waiting for is the First Capital Connect platform extension which is costing millions just to extend the platform so we can get more carriages. The problem is they can't even run the fucking trains on god damn time in the first place which always creates got damn delays. There was one excuse one that went: We are sorry, but we do not have any members of staff to drive the trains

Then FCC want to boost the extortionate rates we're paying already. Fuck this shit man. FUCK THIS SHIT
 

jas0nuk

Member
I'm sure the high speed rail link will happen - the protests are coming from typical NIMBY shire Tory MPs, not surprising. Labour supported these plans before the election and so did the Conservatives (no idea about the Lib Dems) - it's something that this country needs.
 

Walshicus

Member
This country *needs* to copy wholesale whatever system France and Germany have in place for their rail network. Ours is outclassed, and post-privatisation it's hard to see that ever changing.
 
Sir Fragula said:
This country *needs* to copy wholesale whatever system France and Germany have in place for their rail network. Ours is outclassed, and post-privatisation it's hard to see that ever changing.

Improvements would mean shutting down sections for months and that simply isn't acceptable due to the high level of lost revenue and wide scale disruption that'll result in. :/

Just look at how bad it gets when tube workers go on strike, imagine that for months at a time.
 

Walshicus

Member
Speedymanic said:
Improvements would mean shutting down sections for months and that simply isn't acceptable due to the high level of lost revenue and wide scale disruption that'll result in. :/

Just look at how bad it gets when tube workers go on strike, imagine that for months at a time.
Improvements would mean investing in network redundancies. NEW track, NEW stations, NEW trains.
 

Wes

venison crêpe
Labour prepared to say yes to AV vote – but only if Clegg takes a back seat

Nick Clegg is being urged to stay out of the alternative vote campaign by its Labour supporters, amid signs that voters may be willing to back electoral reform in next year's referendum, according to a Guardian/ICM poll.

The call for Clegg to keep his distance from the Yes to Alternative Vote campaign is coming from Ed Miliband, the Labour leader, and Labour supporters on the pro-reform side.

Miliband is warning that if the AV decision turns into a referendum on Clegg and the Liberal Democrats, the chance to change the voting system will be seriously hit.

...

The Guardian poll on the referendum – which, unlike others, used the precise wording of the referendum question proposed by the Electoral Commission – puts the yes camp ahead by six points, 44% to 38%.
 

louis89

Member
industrian said:
If I don't earn £15k a year (either inside or outside the UK) until 2013 I don't have to repay my student loan.
There is no rule that your debt gets written off after a certain amount of years of not paying it, somebody lied to you. It gets written off after 25 years, regardless of whether you've been paying it or not.

I'm sure you can get away with not paying it while you're out of the country. But as soon as you come back here, it's back to square one. Unless it's different for Scottish students? I doubt it though.
 

Mr. Sam

Member
killer_clank said:
People who vote out of spite are fucking idiots. I'll be voting yes irregardless of what the Lib Dems have done wrong.
You mean regardless. I'll be voting yes - but people are fucking idiots and I'll be amazed if it gets through.
 

Empty

Member
Why are you blaming the Telegraph? They refused to print the Murdoch stuff. The person who leaked it offered it to them along with the other revelations about cable's thoughts on the coalition that they did print, but they -- presumably because they too disapprove of Murdoch getting a majority stake in BskyB -- didn't include it in their story. It only came out because the leaker took it to other news sites, in this case the BBC.
 

Chinner

Banned
Yeah empty is right. Oh well, Murdoch must be happy that his media empire will continue to grow.

Lol iPhone capitalised murdoch; he's everywhere !
 

avaya

Member
He is desperate to try and create a Fox News UK version. His papers don't really count for shit these days, he can feel his influence fading.

Cable is a twat for speaking publicly about it.
 

Empty

Member
So frustrating that this happened as not only is the Murdoch BskyB deal way more likely to go through now with Hunt in charge and the government wanting to avoid embarrassment over it, Vince just threw away any political capital he had built up by towing the coalition line all year on the cuts and tuition fees that could be used for tougher banking regulations.
 

RedShift

Member
Empty said:
Why are you blaming the Telegraph? They refused to print the Murdoch stuff. The person who leaked it offered it to them along with the other revelations about cable's thoughts on the coalition that they did print, but they -- presumably because they too disapprove of Murdoch getting a majority stake in BskyB -- didn't include it in their story. It only came out because the leaker took it to other news sites, in this case the BBC.

I wasn't particularly blaming them, just found it a bit ironic that the Telegraph would lead to News Corp getting it what it wants. I do think it was stupid of Cable to go telling constituents he didn't know about things like this before they've been resolved.

One of the editorials on the BBC referred to Cable effectively being demoted to tuition fees secretary. Nice job.
 

defel

Member
I agree that Murdoch is becoming a problem but I fundamentally disagree with idea that the Government should influence what goes on in the media.
 

Deadman

Member
Im sure theres a good joke to be made by putting together the two kinds of cables being leaked, but i cant think of it.


Vince you idiot.
 
defel1111 said:
I agree that Murdoch is becoming a problem but I fundamentally disagree with idea that the Government should influence what goes on in the media.

OFCOM is independent of the government. Giving the say to the Secretary of State for Culture Media and Sport, if thats what the tories have done, IS the government. And they have an interest in seeing Murdoch get his way.

For one thing, a more dominant Murdoch isn't good for competition. It isn't good for the likes of British companies like Virgin (formerly Telewest / NTL) or BT. It isn't good for the consumer to have one huge dominant player in multi-channel broadcasting. And his political reach, which he has shown he is happy to exploit in the US, will be considerable. If Murdoch is able to become more powerful as a result of what this snout-nosed spudfaced prick has done, boasting to two young women like he's don juan, then all I can say is *golf clap*... well done Vince. Thank you. I look forward to the UK having its own Fox-News-style partisan slandering propaganda mega-machine.
 

Wes

venison crêpe
Be hilarious now if the AV vote goes through but because of their popularity the Lib dems win fewer seats.

Vince you muppet.
 

defel

Member
radioheadrule83 said:
OFCOM is independent of the government. Giving the say to the Secretary of State for Culture Media and Sport, if thats what the tories have done, IS the government. And they have an interest in seeing Murdoch get his way.

In that case whether it's Hunt or Cable, the decision will always be politicised and its wrong that the government gets the final say.

Fox News exists as it does because there is a huge market demand for right wing media coverage in the USA that just doesn't exist in the UK.
 
defel1111 said:
In that case whether it's Hunt or Cable, the decision will always be politicised and its wrong that the government gets the final say.

Fox News exists as it does because there is a huge market demand for right wing media coverage in the USA that just doesn't exist in the UK.

I think the two newspapers with the highest circulations are The Sun and Daily Mail. There is a market for agenda driven media but unlike the USA we do have the BBC(even if isn't completely impartial it does try to be).
 
defel1111 said:
In that case whether it's Hunt or Cable, the decision will always be politicised and its wrong that the government gets the final say.

Fox News exists as it does because there is a huge market demand for right wing media coverage in the USA that just doesn't exist in the UK.

I'm sure there's some demand. And Murdoch will create more if he can. Its not even about left wing or right wing for me, he sided with New Labour in 97, I just believe that media entities having too much power is dangerous for the prospects of free and impartial journalism, and therefore political discourse and democracy. Its a threat to competition and the standards that competition can encourage as well. Choice is important.
 

louis89

Member
What I don't understand is why you would say something like that to anyone, regardless of who you thought they were. Why in the hell would you say something as sensitive as that to a constituent anyway? When do politicians ever do that?
 
louis89 said:
What I don't understand is why you would say something like that to anyone, regardless of who you thought they were. Why in the hell would you say something as sensitive as that to a constituent anyway? When do politicians ever do that?

Because it was two young women acting as Liberal Democrat supporters and Vince wanted to not only make the Lib Dems sound like they are doing their bit, but also that he is personally a bad ass who can "bring it all down" if he wants.

He's been caught out big time. I'm sure they could have caught any number of politicians out like this, but they snared themselves a good, high-profile one. It couldn't have happened but for Vince's ego.
 

Chinner

Banned
as usual tom watson owns;
http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2010/12/22/ignorant-hypocritical-buffoon-and-worse-cable-must-go/

Six months into the Conservative-led government, he’s left himself looking like, and let’s not mince words, he looks like a cock. What a total ignoramus. What a self-indulgent buffoon. What a hypocrite. For the protection of his own dignity, he should resign.

and here is the the quote jeremy hunt said about murdoch

“Rather than worry about Rupert Murdoch owning another TV channel, what we should recognise is that he has probably done more to create variety and choice in British TV than any other single person because of his huge investment in setting up Sky TV which, at one point, was losing several million pounds a day.

We would be the poorer and wouldn’t be saying that British TV is the envy of the world if it hadn’t been for him being prepared to take that commercial risk. We need to encourage that kind of investment”.
 

Walshicus

Member
We would be the poorer and wouldn’t be saying that British TV is the envy of the world if it hadn’t been for him being prepared to take that commercial risk. We need to encourage that kind of investment”.
We are poorer, and British satellite TV is far from the envy of the world.
 
Sir Fragula said:
We are poorer, and British satellite TV is far from the envy of the world.

Hey, hey - without Sky, we wouldn't have Pineapple Dance Studios or Louie Spence's Showbusiness! Envy of the world, don'cha know?
 

SmokyDave

Member
When British TV was the envy of the world, all those moons ago, I'd postulate that it was entirely due to content created by the BBC (with a tiny bit of help from Channel 4). Since when has Sky TV been a buzzword for quality? 300 channels of shit.

Edit: Is Sky responsible for Topless Darts? If so, 299 channels of shit + Topless Darts.
 

RedShift

Member
I'm pretty sure Sky's entire schedule consists of US imports they outbid other channels for once they'd seen they were a success and cheap imitations of popular shows on other channels likes Oops TV.
 
300 channels of shit and football TV rights, which in a roundabout way has led to tonnes of overpaid players who don't really give a shit about the clubs they play for...

SmokyDave said:
Edit: Is Sky responsible for Topless Darts? If so, 299 channels of shit + Topless Darts.

Ironically, that was made by Live TV, owned by the Mirror Group

Topless Darts in Space was the best episode
 
Sir Fragula said:
We are poorer, and British satellite TV is far from the envy of the world.
What Hunt says is true though. I don't know how old you are, but while I'm too young to have had actually experience at first-hand television before media deregulation, I have covered this extensively in history and had to produce an end of term essay on it in my first year. I think it is clear to anyone who looks at the evidence that Murdoch's outsider status shaking up the British media industry has on the whole been a force for good. I'm ambivalent about his desire to acquire the rest of BSkyB which he already has de facto control over anyway, and the supposed influence Fox news apparently has on American political discourse (in my view, they cater for an already established audience, they don't turn moderately-minded individuals into rabid anti-muslim racists).

It is rather telling that The Telegraph tried to suppress the damaging comments about Murdoch which shows that the 'anti-Murdoch alliance' supposedly being worried about media plurality is all nonsense. The Barclay brothers (let us not forget, rabid far right tax exiles who thinks Cameron is a socialist) had hoped that Murdoch would be forced to sell The Times to succeed in his bid for BSkyB which the brothers would have been able to snap up in a fire sale. Apparently this is what Cable meant by Murdoch's 'whole empire being under attack'.

The sooner people realise that in this life nobody does anything for purely altruistic reasons, the quicker they see things for how they really are. Interests fighting it out with one another. Even Tom Watson's partisan one-man war against News Corps and Couson is motivated by personal animosity towards the newspapers that have given him a hard time and anyone who dares to have an opinion slightly to the right of himself.
 
blazinglord said:
What Hunt says is true though. I don't know how old you are, but while I'm too young to have had actually experience at first-hand television before media deregulation, I have covered this extensively in history and had to produce an end of term essay on it in my first year. I think it is clear to anyone who looks at the evidence that Murdoch's outsider status shaking up the British media industry has on the whole been a force for good. I'm ambivalent about his desire to acquire the rest of BSkyB which he already has de facto control over anyway, and the supposed influence Fox news apparently has on American political discourse (in my view, they cater for an already established audience, they don't turn moderately-minded individuals into rabid anti-muslim racists).

It is rather telling that The Telegraph tried to suppress the damaging comments about Murdoch which shows that the 'anti-Murdoch alliance' supposedly being worried about media plurality is all nonsense. The Barclay brothers (let us not forget, rabid far right tax exiles who thinks Cameron is a socialist) had hoped that Murdoch would be forced to sell The Times to succeed in his bid for BSkyB which the brothers would have been able to snap up in a fire sale. Apparently this is what Cable meant by Murdoch's 'whole empire being under attack'.

The sooner people realise that in this life nobody does anything for purely altruistic reasons, the quicker they see things for how they really are. Interests fighting it out with one another. Even Tom Watson's partisan one-man war against News Corps and Couson is motivated by personal animosity towards the newspapers that have given him a hard time and anyone who dares to have an opinion slightly to the right of himself.

Fox in the states has the kind of blatent agenda that simply isn't allowed in today's UK television newsmedia. They're a slanderous, libellous propaganda machine. Thankfully, we seem to have checks and balances in place to prevent that kind of thing... for now at any rate.

I'm inclined to believe that Coulson has essentially been allowed to continue in his job because he's a valuable advisor and his accusers - like Sean Hoare - have refused to testify about the phone hacking scandal despite speaking to others about it. But thats another story altogether.

I would agree with Hunt to the extent that Murdoch helped to modernise the British television industry, but that doesn't mean he should be allowed to bring all his international might to bear in combating competitors like Virgin and BT and lap up the spoils of victory afterwards, with all the political media might that that entails. The whining from James Murdoch about the BBC is utterly pathetic... he essentially doesn't like Public Service broadcasting. Sadly for him, a majority of the British public do.

Uncontrolled Media consolidation will concentrate the power over knowledge and information in the hands of the few. Knowledge is freedom and it is power... and monolithic media organisations should be given no more trust than the slimiest politicians. Politicians would do well in fact to keep it in mind that the media can shape the perception of politicians and therefore hold power over them. Better to have competing interests and voices in the media and political discourse than one overbearing power.

Hopefully OFCOM look at it all very closely and do the right thing, in spite of Cable's stupidity.
 
My, the Telegraph is great at digging up dirt at westminster. :lol First expenses, now this.

Unfortunately they are a business, so they only leak stuff when it suits them.
 

Chinner

Banned
it was first given the okay that hunt could handle the decision, but more info that has come out.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/dec/22/conservative-links-murdoch-private-meeting
Rupert Murdoch's close links to the Conservative party were thrown into the spotlight today after it emerged that the culture secretary, Jeremy Hunt, held a private meeting with the tycoon's son, James, at which no civil servants were present.

The meeting took place on 28 June, shortly after News Corp said it had made an offer to buy the 61% of BSkyB it does not already own.

James Murdoch is chairman of BSkyB and chief executive of News Corp in Europe and Asia.

Hunt's relations with the Murdochs are now under fresh scrutiny since he was handed official responsibility for ruling on News Corp's bid to take full control of BSkyB.
 

jas0nuk

Member
Vince Cable is a fool. If he hadn't said anything he'd have been able to refuse the takeover on some reasonable grounds and that'd be the end of it.
Now News Corp can rightfully question the impartiality of any negative decision made because of this ridiculous hyperbolic language that was used.
By saying this he's basically guaranteed that the takeover will be approved.

Anyway, I don't understand where all this Murdoch hatred comes from. He's a hugely successful capitalist rightwinger. So? Why is it anyone else's business if his newspapers are popular? Is it just envy/jealousy that he's made a success of selling right-wing media products? I've heard some people calling him "illiberal" - The Times is very much a liberal paper. The Sun isn't, but that's because it's a right-wing tabloid, just like the Mail. Moreover, Murdoch saved British newspapers by breaking the unions at Wapping in the late 80s.

A very bad day for the Telegraph. It's quite clear that they held back this part of the secret recording because they liked the idea that a rival, Murdoch, would be prevented by Vince Cable from increasing his control over the British right-wing press. Now the BBC has gone and stuffed up their plans. :lol

The fact that Cameron and Clegg had to keep Cable in post just shows how weakened Nick Clegg is at the moment. A Tory minister would have been sacked within moments of this happening, but Vince Cable had to be kept - he adds left-wing balance to the Cabinet. Getting rid of him ruthlessly would've been too much to bear for the Lib Dems especially after recent events like tuition fees. Anyway, Cable is now hugely weakened and is probably on the verge of being swapped out for David Laws at the next reshuffle (probably sometime in the spring/summer next year).
 

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
I'd imagine a great deal of the dislike for Murdoch is to do with the extent of his media influence. That much control and influence cannot beneficial for people.
 

sohois

Member
jas0nuk said:
Anyway, I don't understand where all this Murdoch hatred comes from. He's a hugely successful capitalist rightwinger. So? Why is it anyone else's business if his newspapers are popular? Is it just envy/jealousy that he's made a success of selling right-wing media products? I've heard some people calling him "illiberal" - The Times is very much a liberal paper. The Sun isn't, but that's because it's a right-wing tabloid, just like the Mail. Moreover, Murdoch saved British newspapers by breaking the unions at Wapping in the late 80s.

A large part of the hate comes from Murdoch's overseas actions, particularly Fox News, and the fear that he seeks to gain a monopoly on the media. Also higly successful capitalists are never going to be popular amongst a generally left leaning group like much of GAF.

For my part, I'm not sure why people are so worried, Murdoch practically controls BSkyB anyways, and even if he did go on to try and turn it into a UK Fox News, it won't change the fact that no one watches Sky News, he'll never be able to emulate its success without having a terrestrial channel.
 

Reno7728

Member
sohois said:
A large part of the hate comes from Murdoch's overseas actions, particularly Fox News, and the fear that he seeks to gain a monopoly on the media. Also higly successful capitalists are never going to be popular amongst a generally left leaning group like much of GAF.

For my part, I'm not sure why people are so worried, Murdoch practically controls BSkyB anyways, and even if he did go on to try and turn it into a UK Fox News, it won't change the fact that no one watches Sky News, he'll never be able to emulate its success without having a terrestrial channel.

Wouldn't that be largely negated by the digital switchover?

Can you get Sky News on freeview?
 
So Hunt's now in charge of the decision eh? Considering some very pro-murdoch quotes I've seen from him today he better show himself be completely impartial from now on. The best course of action would just be to go along with whatever OFCOM and the Competition Commission say, but considering those two organisations seem to have very little backbone and just go along with what the government want, I'd imagine this will get through very easily now.

If he does get full control of Sky, nothing should change immediately I would say, there is supposed to be safeguards in place to stop collusion in media between the same companies afterall, but slippery slope and all that...
 

jas0nuk

Member
Reno7728 said:
Can you get Sky News on freeview?
Yes.

Also, there'll never be a UK Fox News, Sky News is the closest you'll find. The political centre of gravity in the UK is much further to the left of that in the US.
 

sohois

Member
Reno7728 said:
Wouldn't that be largely negated by the digital switchover?

Can you get Sky News on freeview?

I largely feel that there's such an ingrained bias towards terrestrial channels it would take years for Sky News to build up an audience even close to that of the others or what they have with Fox and with the general decline in TV audiences as the internet more & more becomes the main news source, i dont think Sky would ever succeed.
 

Reno7728

Member
sohois said:
I largely feel that there's such an ingrained bias towards terrestrial channels it would take years for Sky News to build up an audience even close to that of the others or what they have with Fox and with the general decline in TV audiences as the internet more & more becomes the main news source, i dont think Sky would ever succeed.

Fair point i guess.

Imagine Kay Burley presenting a Glenn Beck style show! (/scared)
 

avaya

Member
The only reason we won't have a Fox News situation in the UK is because the BBC stomps the shit out of everyone when it comes to news and you would not be able to get away with flat out lying and mixing opinion with news on TV.

Hunt is a threat to the BBC. It doesn't actually matter if he gets BSkyB, it'll just be one company that will remain profitable, the newspapers are headed to zero.

The people not understanding Murdoch hate are crazy. It is not because he is a capitalist. I'm sure GAF hates Warren Buffet and Gates too. The most successful capitalists of the last 50years.

Murdoch has his own agenda. Fox News isn't actually Murdoch either, it's that Jabba the Hut Roger Ailes. People don't feel comfortable with the idea that he could garner enough power to effectively set the media agenda. It destroys democracy because he could have a stupid amount of power to shape the political landscape. He used to have it in the UK prior to the net (BBC online) devastating newspaper hegemony. Remember the Sun touting itself as the institution which decides who wins the election? It matters even less these days.
 

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
SmokyDave said:
When British TV was the envy of the world, all those moons ago, I'd postulate that it was entirely due to content created by the BBC (with a tiny bit of help from Channel 4).

Oh, you underestimate the stuff done by the various ITV stations. I worked for Granada all those years ago, and whatever people might think about Coronation Street and Brideshead, the long-running World in Action was phenomenal and influential and also a joy to watch. Other ITV companies had similar successes - it wasn't all the BBC (and predated channel 4 by a long way).
 
I kinda have mixed feelings about Sky. Not a fan of Murdoch and his views at all but on the other hand Sky do a great job in promoting technology take up, be it digital TV in the first place, and now HDTV.

In saying that, obviously these are all subscription based and Sky's only in it for the money, but would the TV infrastructure have improved so much if it wasn't for them being so aggressive? I do think they have a place in today's world, but I don't think they should be getting much bigger than they are now, and in no way should be able to infringe on the BBC's powers and obligations in the slightest.

(Full disclosure, my parents have Sky HD and I <3 being at home to be able to use it :lol )
 

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
avaya said:
BSkyB has been overwhelmingly positive for the TV landscape in this country for consumers. This can't be denied.

How so?

It does some good things - sports, but much of it is overwhelmingly awful. But I'm interested in how it has been "overwhelmingly positive".
 
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