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[Dambrosi]

Once an employee hits 12 months it becomes exponentially more difficult to remove them from your payroll. There is a complex procedure to follow to dismiss an employee after 12 months and if you get one bit of this procedure even the slightest bit wrong you leave yourself open to expensive litigation, especially if they get legal aid.

If graduates need to be successful in the building game they need to spend a good couple of years actually on site, getting their hands dirty so they realise that loads of what they have been taught is useless.

We regularly get plans through for building designs from Architects that look like they have been designed straight out of a textbook, and we regularly point out where big savings in build costs can be made if they make a few minor tweaks.

A quantity surveyor straight out of uni wouldn't know about these tweaks he they would be using the same textbook as the Architects, and it wouldn't be until they have spent a considerable time on site to see how a building comes together, and the shortcuts available to the builders to be able to suggest them.

Ah, I see. Well, that sounds more like a reason to have more on-site practical tutorial sessions during university courses to me. I'd agree that most uni courses are too obsessed with theory over practice, and could do with shifting their emphasis a bit in that regard. And I'm sure you'd agree that that goes for any subject. Makes you wonder if those fancy degrees are worth all that money and effort

Spoiler

of course they are, don't be silly

. I will say this - when learning any subject, not just vocational ones, it's best to start from the bottom and work your way up. Do you agree/not agree?

But never mind that. Have you seen the leaked Metal Gear Rising promo? HAWT

 

[Yen]

Todays Daily Mail frontpage is like the best I've ever seen. Hilarious

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Todays Daily Mail frontpage is like the best I've ever seen. Hilarious

Show meeee.

 

[Yen]

Show meeee.

No
It said Cameron was a hero, defiant, saved Britian. With a picture showing how defiant and determined he is.
The sub-heading makes it clear that Germany and France are the enemies

 

[kitch9]

Ah, I see. Well, that sounds more like a reason to have more on-site practical tutorial sessions during university courses to me. I'd agree that most uni courses are too obsessed with theory over practice, and could do with shifting their emphasis a bit in that regard. And I'm sure you'd agree that that goes for any subject. Makes you wonder if those fancy degrees are worth all that money and effort

Spoiler

of course they are, don't be silly

. I will say this - when learning any subject, not just vocational ones, it's best to start from the bottom and work your way up. Do you agree/not agree?

But never mind that. Have you seen the leaked Metal Gear Rising promo? HAWT

Yeah, technology moves very fast in this industry, we must be pitched a dozen new "revolutionary " techniques and systems every 6 months, I shudder to think how far behind this process our education system is....

 

[kitch9]

No
It said Cameron was a hero, defiant, saved Britian. With a picture showing how defiant and determined he is.
The sub-heading makes it clear that Germany and France are the enemies

Germany and France clearly have their own agenda and they need Britain to bend over with the cap off the lube to achieve it.

Under the previous government this wouldn't have been a problem.... But all parties knew the negotiating position before the talks started so they are all playing hardball pretending the other side has more to lose and seeing who blinks first.

This way the leaders can all agree a compromise in a few days and not look like a weak pussey in front of the public.

 

[PJV3]

I think that's more the result of better employer/employee relations and culture in Germany than anything else. Cooperation is the norm, whereas in England we have this ridiculous adversarial system.

I agree, in the 1970's unions would negotiate at the local branch level, it was just a chaotic system that lived on from a time when people didn't move around as much. But British management in a lot of the companies was notoriously bad, and people for some reason try to downplay that side of the issue. Unions needed modernising not destroying.

People should read up about British Leyland for example, it was made up of older companies that refused to co-operate, and would build cars just to compete with itself. It was even selling cars that were designed 30 years previously, But somehow the myth is that the union destroyed it. You probably know this stuff already, it just pisses me off how history has been re-written.

Other things that contributed to the downfall of the UK.
The 73-74 stock market crash
The oil crisis

I am very left-wing but i accept the unions contributed to the problem, i just think people are spoon fed a diet of anti-union propoganda by the media when the 70's was an era of multiple and very serious problems.

 

[PJV3]

Interesting rift developing in the coalition possibly, though it could just be Clegg using smoke and mirrors to placate his party.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/dec/10/nick-clegg-david-cameron-europe-veto

Just 24 hours after appearing to back Cameron, sources close to Clegg made clear that the deputy prime minister believed the PM had been guilty of serious negotiating failures that risked damaging the national interest, British jobs and economic growth.

Clegg's fury puts the coalition under the most severe strain since its formation 19 months ago, with Europe now seen by some MPs as a potential "deal breaker".

One source said Clegg "couldn't believe it" when he was woken at 4am in his flat in Sheffield to be told that talks on how to save the euro at the Brussels summit had "spectacularly unravelled".

 

[dalin80]

People should read up about British Leyland for example, it was made up of older companies that refused to co-operate, and would build cars just to compete with itself. It was even selling cars that were designed 30 years previously, But somehow the myth is that the union destroyed it. You probably know this stuff already, it just pisses me off how history has been re-written.

As much as there were large amount of contributing factors that conspired to kill British Leyland the fact is when your company is massively struggling already going on strikes will only achieve a quicker death, the unions at the time were nuts and acted in a massively self destructive manner 'securing workers rights!!!.... presuming they have a job to get back to as we have pretty much crippled what's left of the company...'

From then to now some unions have sometimes acted in dubious ways and there is a large part of labour laws that need tightening up in that area IMHO, maybe the establishment of a completely independent non-governmental tribunal to ensure that both companies and unions play fair for all concerned without abolishing the unions or allowing them to cripple companies.

One source said Clegg "couldn't believe it" when he was woken at 4am in his flat in Sheffield to be told that talks on how to save the euro at the Brussels summit had "spectacularly unravelled".

odd timing to let that get out, straight after public opinion has swung in favour of cameron, clegg decides to distance himself from the decision.

 

[killer_clank]

What pisses me off is Dave appears to have simply given up. Shouldn't he have gone/go for further talks to possibly agree something that might be more favourable for him, a la Thatcher and Major instead of just walking away, ?

 

[dalin80]

What pisses me off is Dave appears to have simply given up. Shouldn't he have gone/go for further talks to possibly agree something that might be more favourable for him, instead of just walking away, a la Thatcher and Major?

The talks went on all night and into the morning which doesn't suggest anyone just gave up and it seems it was sarkozy who was unwilling to compromise on anything.

There is room for compromise on both sides but it seems the french really want to get a nice income from taxing london.

 

[PJV3]

As much as there were large amount of contributing factors that conspired to kill British Leyland the fact is when your company is massively struggling already going on strikes will only achieve a quicker death, the unions at the time were nuts and acted in a massively self destructive manner 'securing workers rights!!!.... presuming they have a job to get back to as we have pretty much crippled what's left of the company...'

From then to now some unions have sometimes acted in dubious ways and there is a large part of labour laws that need tightening up in that area IMHO, maybe the establishment of a completely independent non-governmental tribunal to ensure that both companies and unions play fair for all concerned without abolishing the unions or allowing them to cripple companies.

I have no problem with a more inclusive approach, bring it on.

What pisses me off is Dave appears to have simply given up. Shouldn't he have gone/go for further talks to possibly agree something that might be more favourable for him, instead of just walking away, a la Thatcher and Major?

Thatcher stuck it out, turning up with red lines and announcing them before the meeting was stupid of Cameron, anyway we just have to hope his gamble pays off.

 

[killer_clank]

The talks went on all night and into the morning which doesn't suggest anyone just gave up and it seems it was sarkozy who was unwilling to compromise on anything.

There is room for compromise on both sides but it seems the french really want to get a nice income from taxing london.

Yeah, you're probably right. I suspect it was a bit of both being incredibly stubborn, Sarkozy unwilling to move on certain things he wanted and Cameron going in wanting to placate his backbenchers. can't help but feel it was an awful outcome, when even UKIP are unhappy about refusing to give powers to Europe (for different reasons than my own, admittedly), shit's fucked up.

 

[dalin80]

I think UKIP are more pissed because it kind of renders them obsolete.

I doubt this is over and wouldn't be surprised if cameron has had more then a few minutes away from his phone this past couple of days.

 

[PJV3]

Yeah, you're probably right. I suspect it was a bit of both being incredibly stubborn, Sarkozy unwilling to move on certain things he wanted and Cameron going in wanting to placate his backbenchers. can't help but feel it was an awful outcome, when even UKIP are unhappy about refusing to give powers to Europe (for different reasons than my own, admittedly), shit's fucked up.

Cameron should've refused to attend the pre-meeting meeting with Sarkozy and Merkel.

 

[killer_clank]

I think UKIP are more pissed because it kind of renders them obsolete.

I doubt this is over and wouldn't be surprised if cameron has had more then a few minutes away from his phone this past couple of days.

Dunno about that, we are still a member of the EU (albeit a nerfed one) and all this might allow them to finish the job (at which point they are dead, although I doubt they'd care)

 

[PJV3]

Dunno about that, we are still a member of the EU (albeit a nerfed one) and all this might allow them to finish the job (at which point they are dead, although I doubt they'd care)

I'm not sure even the tories want the EU problem sorted out, it gets them votes. I would like a referendum to lance the boil, if the people want out then Labour and the LibDems would have to accept it and the Tories/UKIP would have to focus on something else.

 

[killer_clank]

I'm not sure even the tories want the EU problem sorted out, it gets them votes. I would like a referendum to lance the boil, if the people want out then Labour and the LibDems would have to accept it and the Tories/UKIP would have to focus on something else.

Normally I'd agree but I know the answer would probably be to leave (depending on how the yes/no campaigns were managed) which would be a fucking travesty IMO. What would happen to things like the ability to live, study and work in the EU freely?

The idea of a referendum is good and all but the no vote would be perpetuated by idiots who don't know a lot of the actual facts. Normally I try not to be so blunt, but in this case I think it's probably the case. The AV referendum was the same.

 

[PJV3]

Normally I'd agree but I know the answer would probably be to leave (depending on how the yes/no campaigns were managed) which would be a fucking travesty IMO. What would happen to things like the ability to live, study and work in the EU freely?

The idea of a referendum is good and all but the no vote would be perpetuated by idiots who don't know a lot of the actual facts. Normally I try not to be so blunt, but in this case I think it's probably the case. The AV referendum was the same.

I'm just sick of the negativity and nastiness, i would also get Labour to stop immigration for 5 years just to shut the cunts up. The daily mail would have nothing to talk about besides cancer. I would sort of miss the Euromyths and outrage though.

 

[louis89]

What would happen to things like the ability to live, study and work in the EU freely?

How many British people actually take advantage of that ability?

I.e., move to another EU country to study or work when they otherwise wouldn't be able to?

 

[PJV3]

How many British people actually take advantage of that ability?

I.e., move to another EU country to study or work when they otherwise wouldn't be able to?

That's a tough question to answer but there are 260,000 brits in france for example, 60,000 of which flit between the countries.
The Spanish figure is 990,000, with 230,000 temporary/ part time residents.

 

[Walshicus]

How many British people actually take advantage of that ability?

I.e., move to another EU country to study or work when they otherwise wouldn't be able to?

A fair few. I'd imagine more English use the EU to easily retire to France or Spain though.

No
It said Cameron was a hero, defiant, saved Britian. With a picture showing how defiant and determined he is.
The sub-heading makes it clear that Germany and France are the enemies

Oh how times have changed for the Daily Heil.

 

[Meadows]

Sounds like Clegg isn't happy

 

[PJV3]

Sounds like Clegg isn't happy

Do you buy the locked in a room excuse? surely he could have spoken to the Deputy Prime Minister.

 

[Meadows]

Do you buy the locked in a room excuse? surely he could have spoken to the Deputy Prime Minister.

I presume that they went in with a pre-agreed red-line but that Clegg doesn't think Cameron worked hard enough to protect it without using the veto.

 

[dalin80]

I really think clegg has a allergy about being popular, he waits for the moment that public opinion sways in favour of camerons decision to distance himself from it.

 

[PJV3]

I really think clegg has a allergy about being popular, he waits for the moment that public opinion sways in favour of camerons decision to distance himself from it.

His party is going mental, rumours of Cable walking etc. plus he's got time 2015 is a long way away. this decision could go either way for Cameron by then, it's all down to events now.

 

[kitch9]

Yeah, you're probably right. I suspect it was a bit of both being incredibly stubborn, Sarkozy unwilling to move on certain things he wanted and Cameron going in wanting to placate his backbenchers. can't help but feel it was an awful outcome, when even UKIP are unhappy about refusing to give powers to Europe (for different reasons than my own, admittedly), shit's fucked up.

Cameron went in supporting the agreement on the provision the city pays its fair share only and not 80% of the burden.

They refused, Cameron refused. Nobody blinked and that's that.

Labour would gone in with a blank cheque, and offered Sarkozy a blow job.

Which outcome would you have preferred?

 

[Meadows]

I'm struggling to nail down what to think about all of this veto malarkey.

Pro-veto:

- We'd be paying a large portion of the transaction tax as a country
- I don't want the EU to see budgets before parliament
- I think that a lot of politicians in Europe have been childish about the UK's and have ridiculous expectations of what a Eurosceptic party might do
- We've had a very tough austerity here in the UK, probably one of the worst in the world, just so we can have a good bond rate, and I'll be fucked if Brussels will take that away with a transaction tax that is more harmful to us than anyone else in Europe

Anti-veto:

- Cameron went in with his backbenchers in mind, not the interest of the country
- He shouldn't have used his veto so early, he should have stuck it out and threatened to veto, but not go nuclear so soon
- He should have been talking to Clegg
- We need to be fighting against French protectionism in the EU, Germany alone can't do it really
- Europe fucking hate us now

 

[Chinner]

why is sarkozy such a big doody head and how come he has so much power

 

[PJV3]

Cameron went in supporting the agreement on the provision the city pays its fair share only and not 80% of the burden.

They refused, Cameron refused. Nobody blinked and that's that.

Labour would gone in with a blank cheque, and offered Sarkozy a blow job.

Which outcome would you have preferred?

The fact that people talk about international relations in such a childish manner is what's wrong with this country. There is bad blood between the Tories and Europe and France(pathetically) wanted to isolate the UK as payback. Labour or the LibDems have better relations and may have gotten a deal out of europe.

 

[kitch9]

I'm struggling to nail down what to think about all of this veto malarkey.

Pro-veto:

- We'd be paying a large portion of the transaction tax as a country
- I don't want the EU to see budgets before parliament
- I think that a lot of politicians in Europe have been childish about the UK's and have ridiculous expectations of what a Eurosceptic party might do
- We've had a very tough austerity here in the UK, probably one of the worst in the world, just so we can have a good bond rate, and I'll be fucked if Brussels will take that away with a transaction tax that is more harmful to us than anyone else in Europe

Anti-veto:

- Cameron went in with his backbenchers in mind, not the interest of the country
- He shouldn't have used his veto so early, he should have stuck it out and threatened to veto, but not go nuclear so soon
- He should have been talking to Clegg
- We need to be fighting against French protectionism in the EU, Germany alone can't do it really
- Europe fucking hate us now

They'd been talking all night.... The French and Germans knew what we needed to do a deal days ago and clearly had their own agenda.

They were probably pissed off as they are used to our pm's going to these meetings with their pants down and on their knees ala Blair....

 

[kitch9]

The fact that people talk about international relations in such a childish manner is what's wrong with this country. There is bad blood between the Tories and Europe and France(pathetically) wanted to isolate the UK as payback. Labour or the LibDems have better relations and may have gotten a deal out of europe.

How? We were asking for next to nothing anyway? Don't listen to Milliband saying he'd have gone round sucking everyone's cock, it's embarrassing. Labour would do what they always have and just gave in.

The EU chiefs clearly don't like it when we don't roll over easy like we have been doing over the past decade, but I reckon they'll figure it out in the end.

 

[PJV3]

How? We were asking for next to nothing anyway? Don't listen to Milliband saying he'd have gone round sucking everyone's cock, it's embarrassing. Labour would do what they always have and just gave in.

The EU chiefs clearly don't like it when we don't roll over easy like we have been doing over the past decade, but I reckon they'll figure it out in the end.

The largest transfer of power occured under Thatcher, why is coming to a deal 'sucking cock', what exactly about europe bothers you so much, tell me something it is stopping you from doing then i might understand your anger.

We need to have a referendum and put this issue to bed. I think we benefit from membership but if the majority want out then at least get on with it.

 

[kitch9]

The largest transfer of power occured under Thatcher, why is coming to a deal 'sucking cock', what exactly about europe bothers you so much, tell me something it is stopping you from doing then i might understand your anger.

We need to have a referendum and put this issue to bed.

We agreed the deal, but just asked that our biggest industry would be shielded from a complete hammering.

They refused as they want our money so we refused. Nobody would budge so that's that.

I happen to think the EU is overall a good thing, but I also think they take the piss sometimes, it's nice to have a leader that won't accept it for once.

 

[Meadows]

Clegg:

"I have always believed it's not right to do what will make you immediately popular, but what is right for the long term future of the country"

Respect.

 

[Meadows]

All the Labour politicians giving Clegg metaphorical blowies on TV

 

[kitch9]

Clegg:

"I have always believed it's not right to do what will make you immediately popular, but what is right for the long term future of the country"

Respect.

Respect for what? I've seen numerous Libdems lambasting the PM this morning on TV and they've all been asked what they would have done differently or would they have accepted the EU's demands and NONE of them gave a straight answer.

I'll say it again, what we asked for was modest, was pre-agreed and was simply some protection of one of our largest industries from the EU's planned tax raids.

Some are saying the EU refused this as they don't like Tory policy and they would have done the deal with another party, well I'm sorry if an organisation cannot put aside petty political differences to deal with the important business such as this at hand in a civilised manner then maybe, just maybe it is doomed to fail and we are well off out of it so we can start euro failure preparations now.

 

[PJV3]

All the Labour politicians giving Clegg metaphorical blowies on TV

I'm waiting to see what Cable has to say, he warned the cabinet about turning the casino part of the city and a bunch of tax evaders into the national interest.

 

[kitch9]

I'm waiting to see what Cable has to say, he warned the cabinet about turning the casino part of the city and a bunch of tax evaders into the national interest.

Yes, but this happens all over the world, and it's not going anywhere so why should just ours be hammered?

Truth is, the French and German governments would love a financial sector like ours and as ours is by far the biggest its no coincidence that they went after taxing it.

 

[Dark Machine]

We need to have a referendum and put this issue to bed. I think we benefit from membership but if the majority want out then at least get on with it.

Exactly. I'd like us to stay in primarily so I can do a Masters degree in Mannheim or the Netherlands. A lot of students are looking at doing similar things now tuition fees have gone up massively in the UK. Plus those thinkng we don't benefit from the EU's freedom of movement and trade and that only 'dem immigrants' do is silly. There's loads of jobs that are reliant on our EU membership. Only BankGAFfers like Zomg who see the view over the ocean from their 25th floor offices in the city don't consider this important.

But either way if people want out, then lets get on with it for God's sake. It's getting tiresome now. IF we do go out, I doubt I'll come home to the UK/Europe long term, may as well forge life elsewhere if it's all gonna be same in regards of immigration etc.

 

[Meadows]

Ipsos Mori:

62% agree with Cameron, 19% disagree with Cameron, 19% don't know.

Cameron most popular party leader.

Should the UK quit the EU?

Yes: 48%
No: 33%
Don't Know: 19%

Voting preference:

Conservatives: 38%
Labour: 39%
Lib Dems: 11%

(a big swing to the Tories)

 

[PJV3]

Yes, but this happens all over the world, and it's not going anywhere so why should just ours be hammered?

Truth is, the French and German governments would love a financial sector like ours and as ours is by far the biggest its no coincidence that they went after taxing it.

I just meant, is he going to lay into Cameron and risk being sacked. there are rumours flying around that he is livid about Cameron.

 

[Chinner]

i heard after cameron veto'd the vote he went to greggs and had a 70p sausage roll. he is truly an english man i respect.

 

[dalin80]

All the Labour politicians giving Clegg metaphorical blowies on TV

They need to shut the hell up given all the damage they caused.

 

[PJV3]

i heard after cameron veto'd the vote he went to greggs and had a 70p sausage roll. he is truly an english man i respect.

They have Greggs in brussels?, and they don't use the Euro?. Maybe the Tories are winning after all.

 

[Chinner]

They have Greggs in brussels?, and they don't use the Euro?. Maybe the Tories are winning after all.

no he had nick clegg get a private jet over to brussels so he could have his sasusage roll and giant ginerbread man. sources tell me that nick clegg had an iced mince pie.

 

[PJV3]

no he had nick clegg get a private jet over to brussels so he could have his sasusage roll and giant ginerbread man. sources tell me that nick clegg had an iced mince pie.

He should've used a Spitfire, and he calls himself British. Pah!

 

[blahblah...blah]

I'm struggling to nail down what to think about all of this veto malarkey.

Pro-veto:

- We'd be paying a large portion of the transaction tax as a country
- I don't want the EU to see budgets before parliament
- I think that a lot of politicians in Europe have been childish about the UK's and have ridiculous expectations of what a Eurosceptic party might do
- We've had a very tough austerity here in the UK, probably one of the worst in the world, just so we can have a good bond rate, and I'll be fucked if Brussels will take that away with a transaction tax that is more harmful to us than anyone else in Europe

Anti-veto:

- Cameron went in with his backbenchers in mind, not the interest of the country
- He shouldn't have used his veto so early, he should have stuck it out and threatened to veto, but not go nuclear so soon
- He should have been talking to Clegg
- We need to be fighting against French protectionism in the EU, Germany alone can't do it really
- Europe fucking hate us now

All of your pros are economic / political, whereas your cons tend to be more strategic / personal. That's not a criticism, just more a note that it seems to indicate where - perhaps subconsciously - your true opinion lies?

 

[Rourkey]

I just think they tried to rail road Cameron by using a deadline tactic, everyone knew they couldn't afford to spend the weekend negotiating with Britain and they tried to use it to their advantage. Once the deal is sorted they'll offer GB some concessions to get us back on board in order that The eu isn't out of sync with the euro zone and they can use EU institutions to enforce their deal.

Im pretty sure Clegg will be more involved now dealing with the EU from now on.