killer_clank
Member
That certainly sounds as if it would piss Sarkozy if true.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.
- Thread starter Chinner
- Start date
zomgbbqftw
Banned
The other two have taken it back to their national Parliaments to be debated, Sweden have said it is unlikely the measure will pass and at least one of the major parties has said they will reject it and so have some of the minor ones, it would take just 5-10% of representatives from the ruling party to vote it down for it to not pass in Sweden.
He's not going to be around after April 2012, David Cameron is likely going to be UK PM until 2020, Merkel and the Germans know who is going to be a better long term friend and who to keep on side. An EU expert from a different (German) bank on the same business trip was saying today that an Anglo-Saxon deal could be forged around March while Sarko is out campaigning and distracted and then a new French President will be presented it on their first day at the office making it very difficult to reject.
Anyway, it is super late here and I have to be up in a few hours. I only woke up to watch MOTD2 for 30 mins.
PJV3
Member
It all sounds bloody pathetic (if true) to me. Europe is being run by shit for brain leaders at the moment.
Didn't the Germans bother to work out the legality before hand, what was the point of the Franco-German summit?. Were on the verge of potential economic disaster and everybody is playing games. Cameron on his Blackberry to Osborne during the meeting but not Clegg etc.
"Anglo-Saxon deal could be forged around March while Sarko is out campaigning and distracted and then a new French President will be presented it on their first day at the office making it very difficult to reject". WTF! that sounds like the cocaine and drink induced ramblings of somebody in the financial sector. So we know about it now but the entire French nation will be suprised in 3 months time.
Didn't the Germans bother to work out the legality before hand, what was the point of the Franco-German summit?. Were on the verge of potential economic disaster and everybody is playing games. Cameron on his Blackberry to Osborne during the meeting but not Clegg etc.
"Anglo-Saxon deal could be forged around March while Sarko is out campaigning and distracted and then a new French President will be presented it on their first day at the office making it very difficult to reject". WTF! that sounds like the cocaine and drink induced ramblings of somebody in the financial sector. So we know about it now but the entire French nation will be suprised in 3 months time.
killer_clank
Member
Ireland might require a referendum as well IIRC. That could impede things as well, given what happened last time with the Lisbon treaty and what's happened to them since.
Incidentally, does anyone here know the position of the French Socialists on the EU and current goings on? They're expected to win the presidency, correct? My basic understanding is that in Mainland Europe it's the right wing that are way more pro EU and somehow that situation kind of Pseudo-flipped here so that the right is way more Eurosceptic.
Incidentally, does anyone here know the position of the French Socialists on the EU and current goings on? They're expected to win the presidency, correct? My basic understanding is that in Mainland Europe it's the right wing that are way more pro EU and somehow that situation kind of Pseudo-flipped here so that the right is way more Eurosceptic.
The entire point of the Lisbon Treaty was so that legally binding agreements could be forged with qualified majorities rather than unanimity. That's completely wrong.
I think the last few pages of this thread have proven one thing: we ordinary Brits don't know shit about Europe, and should probably just shut up about it.
Sage00 is right: one of the Lisbon Treaty's main purposes was to take away the need for unanimity to make decision-taking at a macro-European level quicker and easier. The UK doesn't have to be involved for it to become European law. Sorry, but them's the rules we signed up to - no use cryin' over them now.
killer_clank: the Tory Far Right = little Englanders = too much national pride, hatred of foreigners = Euroscepticism. It's not the same at all on the mainland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon said:
Sage00 is right: one of the Lisbon Treaty's main purposes was to take away the need for unanimity to make decision-taking at a macro-European level quicker and easier. The UK doesn't have to be involved for it to become European law. Sorry, but them's the rules we signed up to - no use cryin' over them now.
killer_clank: the Tory Far Right = little Englanders = too much national pride, hatred of foreigners = Euroscepticism. It's not the same at all on the mainland.
The 'several policy areas' is the important bit as some of the policies involved in recent talks are not covered by that caveat. If it was all covered then Britain wouldnt have had the powered or cause to veto it and the french and germans would have already pushed it though rather then trying to get it around current legalities.
You almost want the EU to be able to do what the fuck they want.
I've said it before, this is hardball negotiating straight out of the textbook on all sides... I feel an agreement will be made shortly.
PJV3
Member
What i've read about it suggests any legal challenges will be to do with small policy areas that may come up, not the deal as a whole or the central idea. The only other sticking point is can they use EU staff etc to run it.
'I've said it before, this is hardball negotiating straight out of the textbook on all sides... I feel an agreement will be made shortly.'
If UK demands are as small as Clegg suggests then you would think so, But i don't see this giving much room for Cameron to backtrack without upsetting his party. so its the French and Germans who will have to move.
David Laws spitting truth bombs:
1053: Not all Liberal Democrats have criticised Mr Cameron's decision. The former chief secretary to the Treasury, David Laws, blames French "villains" for putting the prime minister in a difficult position. "It seems as if many of the other eurozone nations didn't really understand Britain's negotiation position, and it seems to many of us that France took a deliberate decision to ignore the quite reasonable demands of the UK and perhaps actively seek to exclude the UK from the core of European Union countries," he says.
<3 Laws
1053: Not all Liberal Democrats have criticised Mr Cameron's decision. The former chief secretary to the Treasury, David Laws, blames French "villains" for putting the prime minister in a difficult position. "It seems as if many of the other eurozone nations didn't really understand Britain's negotiation position, and it seems to many of us that France took a deliberate decision to ignore the quite reasonable demands of the UK and perhaps actively seek to exclude the UK from the core of European Union countries," he says.
<3 Laws
PJV3
Member
I am still wondering how the French controlled the other 25 countries to isolate the UK.
There are two choices, either the french used drugs and hypnotism, or Cameron is fucking useless.
They didn't.
The guy who is in front to take over from Sarkozy has already said he would look to reverse whatever Sarkozy agrees anyway.
Its a mess.
Will the Euro ultimately survive? I'm not sure.
radioheadrule83
Banned
It'll survive in some form or another. The membership might change, but it'll be considered too big to fail imo... there's just no way they let a major European country like Italy or Spain slip into the abyss. I wish I had money so I could bank on it in fact. Whatever political and financial mathamagicks is required, it'll be done.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
I dunno - Ed kept pointing out his absence.
JonathanEx
Member
PJV3
Member
He needs to be on the frontbench but the newspapers would start stirring.
PJV3
Member
To be fair, every little grimace etc would be blown out of proportion. But yeah as leader he needs to take the rough with the smooth.
yeah, depressing. though i do wonder if there's value in just letting them try and do the whole personal bollocks instead of having idiots like balls drag the party down; there's a sense from the labour party at the moment that it's just about being reactionary and, despite the distractions, david would bring some needed intellectual credibility.
his question was spot on imo too. more than anything it's about cameron being afraid of making the effort to try and work with europe to benefit everyone, and tory mistrust of europe at a fundamental level. i think this is misplaced and we're letting france dominate as a result.
radioheadrule83
Banned
BBC said:
haha
JonathanEx
Member
The line was "To quote Del Boy, what a plonker" I think.
PJV3
Member
Its actually a daft question. Would ED have signed if he'd got nowhere, not explained his position clearly(according to David Laws) and walked out the first day.
Typical political bollocks, that they learn in debating societies, that includes Ed.
StealthGoblin
Banned
I really hope the French do get rid of Sarkozy. Though if this agreement works out for them it might reflect well on him. Their successes in Libya will also reflect well on him.
PJV3
Member
1655: Nick Robinson Political editor
In response to Labour MPs shouting at the prime minister, "where's Clegg?" Tory MPs shouted at the Labour leader, "Would you have signed?" Ed Miliband did not give his answer but his aides just have. It's "No". The longer answer, they say, is that Miliband would have stayed in the room and negotiated a better deal.
In response to Labour MPs shouting at the prime minister, "where's Clegg?" Tory MPs shouted at the Labour leader, "Would you have signed?" Ed Miliband did not give his answer but his aides just have. It's "No". The longer answer, they say, is that Miliband would have stayed in the room and negotiated a better deal.
Cameron didn't walk out though, the meeting just ended with no agreement.
It's not a daft question, would they have signed yes or no? Labours assertion that they would have made friends and a deal would be done makes me wonder what kind of institution the EU is.
Typical BBC garbage, its clear the French in particular didn't even want to talk, they assumed DC would just cave in given the circumstances of how important the summit was.
Reading the Guardian blog of Parliments questions I think DC did the right thing.
"5.03pm: Labour's Graham Stringer says it would have been better if Britain had not had to wait 40 years for a prime minister to say no to Europe."
Amen Bro
Cameron doesn't know where Clegg is:
1703: Yet another Labour MP - this time Kevin Brennan - asks where Nick Clegg is. A slightly exasperated prime minister says: "I'm not responsible for his whereabouts but I'm sure he's working very hard." His words are greeted with laughter.
Something's going on here....
1703: Yet another Labour MP - this time Kevin Brennan - asks where Nick Clegg is. A slightly exasperated prime minister says: "I'm not responsible for his whereabouts but I'm sure he's working very hard." His words are greeted with laughter.
Something's going on here....
radioheadrule83
Banned
Everyone's having a great time
its beginning to feel a lot like christ-mas ♪
its beginning to feel a lot like christ-mas ♪
PJV3
Member
It's a question to the Labour party, how is that BBC 'garbage.
Once you begin to see it you see it all the time.
Like the segment where they tried to make out that it was a snub to Cameron that he signed the agreement letting Croatia in to the EU last, and forgetting to mention that were last in the alphabet.
Becaus they are the mouth of the labour party, their basically answering on their behalf during the debate but yer your right the point is actually Labour garbage (assuming the BBC are genuinly getting the points from labour)
travisbickle
Member
I don't understand what this means? Do you realise who Nick Robinson is?
PJV3
Member
You need to research Nick Robinson. you are so far out.
Its a reference to the rumour that Clegg is a lazy sod who doesn't go through his paper work and knocks off at 3
radioheadrule83
Banned
A guy who can speak that many languages probably has all of his work done by the end of lunchtime anyway
Nick Robinson has a very Conservative past -- national chairman of the Young Conservatives, president of Oxford University Conservative Association etc... yet you think he's taking part in some anti-government / anti-cameron agenda at the BBC or something?
If they're looking for stories that probably aren't even there, well that's pretty much journalism 101, they all do it.
Nick Robinson has a very Conservative past -- national chairman of the Young Conservatives, president of Oxford University Conservative Association etc... yet you think he's taking part in some anti-government / anti-cameron agenda at the BBC or something?
If they're looking for stories that probably aren't even there, well that's pretty much journalism 101, they all do it.
Sounds like one, smells like one, is one!
Perhaps I'll do some research on him once I get home