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[Azure J]

So since this is the time where we have to really refine our change list:

TAC Changes:
*HSD returns to 0 after a TAC and builds normally from there.

What was our reasoning again for making TACs reset hit stun decay to zero instead of halving it or something similar for guaranteed prevention of long high damaging sequences?

X-Factor Changes:
*X-Factor now prevents time outs while active.

Still don't like this particular change. I get the logic behind it, but the game already gives you enough to work it out through the course of actual match time.

*Guard Breaks removed.

For the sake of looking professional, we should remove this as Guard Breaks aren't just a "thing" that happens or are totally intentional.

*Re-evaluation on push block mechanic and character actions of the offender requested to prevent certain "Guard Break" scenarios.

Well, that might not be the best phrasing as well, but you get my point I hope.

*Focus Attack Level 3 now causes a significantly less hitstun on airborne opponents with a strike attribute, preventing follow-ups. Grounded hits are unchanged.

I still think this should be changed slightly to allow high hitstun decay follow-ups with Thunder Knuckle H - Burn Kick feint stuff. The Viper player still has the option of a follow-up from the spinning state the Focus AA allows while said followup is not as powerful or guaranteed as it is currently. God's Beard was saying something like +4 frames of frame advantage on hit, I wish if he could demonstrate what that'd allow her visually for me, but

+c.L startup reduced to 6 frames and can be chained into from s.L.

Was no mention of this being fixed to hit floaters better made on purpose or was it overlooked?

- Helm Breaker’s hitbox near the hilt reduced so that it no longer hits characters behind Dante.

This needs to make a note that it doesn't do so on descent, otherwise Vortex follow-ups are going to be a lot more cumbersome.

I wanted to comment on characters that weren't my mains but everything checks out. Although, I don't know how I feel about Amaterasu's Veil of Mist allowing tagged in partners to continue building meter while the other person suffers from slow mode. :lol

If you ever need a suggestion to replace that, she could always get her Vanilla hit stun back.

 

[Karsticles]

I am disappointed it's called a "committee", and not "The FGC-GAF Illuminati".

Markman isn't in the group, so that would be disingenuous.

What was our reasoning again for making TACs reset hit stun decay to zero instead of halving it or something similar for guaranteed prevention of long high damaging sequences?

Swag. And we actually want high-damaging follow-up sequences. That's what makes the TAC worthwhile. We disabled meter gain to balance this out.

Still don't like this particular change. I get the logic behind it, but the game already gives you enough to work it out through the course of actual match time.

I'd like to see more conversation on this; I could go either way.

For the sake of looking professional, we should remove this as Guard Breaks aren't just a "thing" that happens or are totally intentional.

I don't think 1-frame unblockables are something Capcom intended.

We aren't removing throws after blocking. We're removing things like untechable throws after blocking.

I still think this should be changed slightly to allow high hitstun decay follow-ups with Thunder Knuckle H - Burn Kick feint stuff. The Viper player still has the option of a follow-up from the spinning state the Focus AA allows while said followup is not as powerful or guaranteed as it is currently. God's Beard was saying something like +4 frames of frame advantage on hit, I wish if he could demonstrate what that'd allow her visually for me, but

I'm indifferent to this change. My C.Viper opinions are pretty neutral.

Was no mention of this being fixed to hit floaters better made on purpose or was it overlooked?

I don't even know what character you are talking about, lol.

This needs to make a note that it doesn't do so on descent, otherwise Vortex follow-ups are going to be a lot more cumbersome.

I don't understand.

I wanted to comment on characters that weren't my mains but everything checks out. Although, I don't know how I feel about Amaterasu's Veil of Mist allowing tagged in partners to continue building meter while the other person suffers from slow mode. :lol

If you ever need a suggestion to replace that, she could always get her Vanilla hit stun back.

I made the Veil of Mist change because it opens up more interesting DHC options with her. I fully expect that, if these changes get made, Amaterasu/Morrigan will get used together more as a result. They have excellent synergy.

 

[GuardianE]

Was no mention of this being fixed to hit floaters better made on purpose or was it overlooked?

This needs to make a note that it doesn't do so on descent, otherwise Vortex follow-ups are going to be a lot more cumbersome.

"Floaters"?

The descent is precisely where the hilt hitbox will be removed, not during the initial swing's active frames. It's intended to make it easier to punish Helm Breakers by moving to the opposite side of Dante/Vergil. There won't be an issue any longer where your hurtbox will extend too far and get clipped, even when you're standing on the "safe" side.

 

["God's Beard!"]

If we're nerfing x-factor damage, increasing the clock creates real opportunity for comebacks through skill and an extra layer of strategy.

 

[Azure J]

Swag. And we actually want high-damaging follow-up sequences. That's what makes the TAC worthwhile. We disabled meter gain to balance this out.

Ohhhhh, OK I get it now. Although I'm not too sure I agree with this.

I'd like to see more conversation on this; I could go either way.

I really don't have much more to add than what I elaborated previously sadly.

I don't think 1-frame unblockables are something Capcom intended.

We aren't removing throws after blocking. We're removing things like untechable throws after blocking.

I agree, I'm just saying there has to be a better way to tell them what the issue is lest they do a Capcpom style of change to deal with it that winds up breaking something else.

I'm indifferent to this change. My C.Viper opinions are pretty neutral.

It's really Dah I want to hear from on it just because he was the one most fiercely fighting for absolutely no kind of follow up from a Lvl. 3 Focus on Anti-Air. I feel like it kinda hurts solo Viper a bit.

I don't even know what character you are talking about, lol.

Oh sorry, that was for Dante. His c.L tends to whiff up close on Morrigan & Storm as well as during certain frames of Nova, Magneto and Dr. Strange's dash/idle standing animations.

I don't understand.

The initial part of Dante's j.S animation has him swing the sword from over his back downward. That initial part of the swing has a hitbox that is most commonly used for confirming from the last hit of a DT Vortex attack (initiated up close to the opponent).

Haha, actually nevermind about this, I do a lot of testing of what you're writing before making comments and just found out/remembered that Vortex in this situation can also be confirmed by Hammer from the other side. We're good.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Chris should be able to aim flamethrower. Bring back vanilla Dante. Re-Patch Sentinels health. Seems fair.

 

[Renegade_Civil-War]

This makes me think that we really should take the change out. This should not be happening.

Do the other committee members agree?

I'm starting to get the feeling whenever I make a suggestion, you just immediately suggest the opposite.

Even when you guys eventually do it.

Like I suggested true invincible AA assists return (for Ryu, Akuma, Cap, Jill, Arthur) and you were like "hell no"

and how many invincible/armor assists are there now? Lol.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";73579133]It makes me sad when people mash throw out of command grab setups because Thor or whoever didn't get the 1 frame timing.

I like the idea of it being a throw reversal because they'd lose to meaty attacks and delayed throws anyway. It can be baited.[/QUOTE]

This.

This is a good idea. Command grabs still lose to meaties free, but your opponent has to respect you and either throw out the H early so it's active, or wait on it to go for the grab (risking the command grab). It'll still be tricky because then it's a Command Grab startup vs meaty startup situation.

Besides, how many air command grabs are there? Thor, Haggar, Morrigan (with patch notes).... ? I don't really know of anyone else

Adding some basic air defenses that aren't Morrigan or Sentinel could only be a good thing.

Speaking of...

How about adding some hitting invincibility on maximum spider? (it's already invincible to the wall).

Or allow Ryu's hurricane kick super air ok? That'll give him some air defense since he can't move up there.

Also, do something about Denjin Ryu's reflecto searchlight beam super not actually being MUCH WORSE (he can't get double supers off it, and it's not mashable)

 

[Renegade_Civil-War]

Oh... btw, is multiple TACs still possible? With the reset to 0 hit stun, those combos could get LONG.

Imagine Zero combo-> TAC-> Full Doom Combo->TAC->Full Dante Combo.

Is Meter gain still enabled for your opponent?

 

[Azure J]

Oh... btw, is multiple TACs still possible? With the reset to 0 hit stun, those combos could get LONG.

Imagine Zero combo-> TAC-> Full Doom Combo->TAC->Full Dante Combo.

Is Meter gain still enabled for your opponent?

Dante doesn't have long TAC combos though.

 

[Karsticles]

Oh... btw, is multiple TACs still possible? With the reset to 0 hit stun, those combos could get LONG.

Imagine Zero combo-> TAC-> Full Doom Combo->TAC->Full Dante Combo.

Is Meter gain still enabled for your opponent?

Yes and yes.

 

[Renegade_Civil-War]

Yeah, but at 0 hit stun. He can can just get do anything into a hard knockdown or killer bee, then proceed with normal Dante combos from there.

 

[GuardianE]

Dante doesn't have long TAC combos though.

Hitstun is set to zero. You're getting whatever full combo you'd normally get off of a Hammer.

 

[Karsticles]

Hitstun is set to zero. You're getting whatever full combo you'd normally get off of a Hammer.

And that would just be a terrible idea.

 

[Renegade_Civil-War]

And that would just be a terrible idea.

Unless you wanted to timer scam/ bleed out Xfactor/troll.

 

[GuardianE]

And that would just be a terrible idea.

Yeah, it would do no damage and build no meter. It would just take forever. No one in their right mind would go for it except to annoy everyone or switch characters at a meter cost.

 

[Dahbomb]

It should be clear that TACs start at 0, build up normally in the air and if either you or your opponent touches the ground it is set at max scaling again. Otherwise Magneto would just take you to the ground and Grav Loop you or Dante would just do a full combo after air dash Hammer.

Solo Viper is not hurt by LVL3 FA because solo Viper is never going to hit someone with a LVL3 FA. If you are talking about point Viper she still has unblockable on the ground plus a variety of mix ups and tools with good damage. If anything, Viper can easily survive without an unblockable but I didn't want to take it out completely. So practice your set ups son!

Sorry for late reply just came back from The Wolverine: Apology edition.

 

[Karsticles]

It should be clear that TACs start at 0, build up normally in the air and if either you or your opponent touches the ground it is set at max scaling again. Otherwise Magneto would just take you to the ground and Grav Loop you.

Solo Viper is not hurt by LVL3 FA because solo Viper is never going to hit someone with a LVL3 FA. If you are talking about point Viper she still has unblockable on the ground plus a variety of mix ups and tools with good damage. If anything, Viper can easily survive without an unblockable but I didn't want to take it out completely. So practice your set ups son!

Sorry for late reply just came back from The Wolverine: Apology edition.

I'll clarify that.

*Hitstun deterioration returns to 0 after a TAC and builds normally from there; returns to pre-TAC hitstun levels combined with post-TAC hitstun levels when either character touches the ground.

Rank the new Wolverine movie in comparison to all other X-Men films.

 

[Dahbomb]

I'll clarify that.

Rank the new Wolverine movie in comparison to all other X-Men films.

X Men 2 is still the best.
Either First Class or new Wolverine is next. They both have their own issues/strength and I would have to rewatch First Class.
X Men 1 is next and this is basically the base line dividing good X Men from bad.
After that is X Men 3.

And right below steaming dog shit is Wolverine Origins.

 

[Karsticles]

X Men 2 is still the best.
Either First Class or new Wolverine is next. They both have their own issues/strength and I would have to rewatch First Class.
X Men 1 is next and this is basically the base line dividing good X Men from bad.
After that is X Men 3.

And right below steaming dog shit is Wolverine Origins.

Good list.

 

[GuardianE]

X Men 2 is still the best.
Either First Class or new Wolverine is next. They both have their own issues/strength and I would have to rewatch First Class.
X Men 1 is next and this is basically the base line dividing good X Men from bad.
After that is X Men 3.

And right below steaming dog shit is Wolverine Origins.

Honestly, I was thinking of skipping it.... I might see it now. I didn't think First Class was that good. There were a lot of missteps in it, though I liked it overall. X-Men 3 was garbage. Wolverine Origins was sewage.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

She-Hulk Thoughts/Wishes

The Obvious
-Emergency Landing(Catapult wall Jump cancel) - She should be able to block on her way down...cuz WTF my dude.
-Light Out(swinging pole) - projectile invincible throughout start up.

The Other Stuff
- Senton(ass drop) - air to air causes high ground bounce, slightly wider hit bubble.
- Standing Overhead - start up to 20f(like Spencer's)
- Light Out(swinging pole) - causes Hard Knockdown instead of wall bounce.
- Flash Kick - ALL versions cause "spinning" Soft knockdown. making it combo convertible..... cuz FUCK Magneto :|
- Clothesline - Hard knockdown on airborn opponents, leave behind ( like HUGO's)
- Runner's Start - Able to call assist while in said stance.

And the lady would BACK IN COURT!

 

[shaowebb]

Quick question but what all potential Vergil hitbox things were brought up on his hoped for change list?

 

[Karsticles]

She-Hulk Thoughts/Wishes

The Obvious
-Emergency Landing(Catapult wall Jump cancel) - She should be able to block on her way down...cuz WTF my dude.
-Light Out(swinging pole) - projectile invincible throughout start up.

The Other Stuff
- Senton(ass drop) - air to air causes high ground bounce, slightly wider hit bubble.
- Standing Overhead - start up to 20f(like Spencer's)
- Light Out(swinging pole) - causes Hard Knockdown instead of wall bounce.
- Flash Kick - ALL versions cause "spinning" Soft knockdown. making it combo convertible..... cuz FUCK Magneto :|
- Clothesline - Hard knockdown on airborn opponents, leave behind ( like HUGO's)
- Runner's Start - Able to call assist while in said stance.

And the lady would BACK IN COURT!

Did you look at our changes before posting this?

Honestly, I was thinking of skipping it.... I might see it now. I didn't think First Class was that good. There were a lot of missteps in it, though I liked it overall. X-Men 3 was garbage. Wolverine Origins was sewage.

All of the missteps were with the no-name kiddy mutants. The bromance was so amazing that it cured all ills throughout the film, though.

 

[Dahbomb]

Did we add assist call during Runner's stance for She Hulk?

COMMITTEE MEMBERS:
PM me your e-mail address so we can all work out a time to solidify changes this weekend.

Why do you need e mails? Just PM through GAF.

Your liking Wolverine is equivalent to how much you like the character. If you really like the character then its the movie for you. The movie was much more character driven than most other blockbuster comic hero movies. First 2/3rd were really solid but final act veers into standard comic book territory of cheesiness. Still the first few acts are worth the watch alone. The end credit scene gave me a rock hard erection.

 

[GuardianE]

All of the missteps were with the no-name kiddy mutants. The bromance was so amazing that it cured all ills throughout the film, though.

But the kiddy mutants were a huge part of the film. And it's a part of the film that could have been done better than it was. I did like it overall, though.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yea we need to add assist call during Runner stance. Capcom removed that for some reason in UMVC3, they really hated She Hulk.

Quick question but what all potential Vergil hitbox things were brought up on his hoped for change list?

Mostly just Helm Breaker and launcher posterior hit boxes. Character already got plenty of nerfs.

 

[Renegade_Civil-War]

But the kiddy mutants were a huge part of the film. And it's a part of the film that could have been done better than it was. I did like it overall, though.

X-men first class would have been 1000 times better without actual the first class.

McAvoy and Fassbender as Xavier and Magneto doing a Cold War spy movie with mutants???

I would watch 10 of those films.

 

[Renegade_Civil-War]

Yea we need to add assist call during Runner stance. Capcom removed that for some reason in UMVC3, they really hated She Hulk.

Blame 90% Justin & Combofiend, (and 10% slightly Floe and NerdJosh)

 

[Karsticles]

X-men first class would have been 1000 times better without actual the first class.

McAvoy and Fassbender as Xavier and Magneto doing a Cold War spy movie with mutants???

I would watch 10 of those films.

YES.

Did we add assist call during Runner's stance for She Hulk?


Why do you need e mails? Just PM through GAF.

Your liking Wolverine is equivalent to how much you like the character. If you really like the character then its the movie for you. The movie was much more character driven than most other blockbuster comic hero movies. First 2/3rd were really solid but final act veers into standard comic book territory of cheesiness. Still the first few acts are worth the watch alone. The end credit scene gave me a rock hard erection.

I can (apparently) only PM one person at a time though GAF.

 

[Dahbomb]

Wait what? I didn't even know there was a limit to PMs. Let me check this.

If anyone gets a random PM from me please ignore it.

Oh wow you are right! This is madness!!!

Edit: Actually I think there's a timer like sending posts. You probably have to wait a bit. I was able to send two messages in a short time. I sent my e mail anyway.

 

[Dahbomb]

I don't know what's the deal with PMs but I will just write my e mail here:

daniyal.hameed88@gmail.com

I am looking over the system changes again and honestly only 3-4 strike me as big or game changer.

One of the throw changes and 3 of the assist changes. I personally like them a lot but people will rage about then even though they all promote smarter play.

Oh and the TAC change is obviously huge. Will probably never get accepted but I will easily take that over the current TAC

 

[Karsticles]

I got your e-mail in the PM, Dahbomb.

I just need e-mails for Frantic, Zissou, and GB now.

When I do the write-up, I will mention that while we like our TAC revision, if Capcom is unwilling to undergo such a drastic change, we strongly encourage a TAC system where enough time is provided to counter them on visual (color-based) reaction.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I think if your goal is really just to get across a cohesive wishlist to Capcom, and not just write what is effectively video game fanfiction (which is the impression I get and the main reason I usually just stay out of this nonsense altogether), then you ought to keep it simple. Inventing some elaborate TAC system replacement really isn't a practical use of anyone's time. You might as well just try and get across the general idea that more than anything else you'd like to see the risk/reward on it balanced out. Whatever specific way that manifests itself shouldn't be that big of a concern.

 

[Karsticles]

I think if your goal is really just to get across a cohesive wishlist to Capcom, and not just write what is effectively video game fanfiction (which is the impression I get and the main reason I usually just stay out of this nonsense altogether), then you ought to keep it simple. Inventing some elaborate TAC system replacement really has no practical value. You might as well just try and get across the general idea that more than anything else you'd like to see the risk/reward on it balanced out. Whatever specific way that manifests itself shouldn't be that big of a concern.

When someone asks for feedback, if you take into consideration what they are willing to do, it's not very good feedback. If we told them to just change TACs slightly, they might actually think we like the system. That is not a good idea.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

When someone asks for feedback, if you take into consideration what they are willing to do, it's not very good feedback. If we told them to just change TACs slightly, they might actually think we like the system. That is not a good idea.

I'm just saying that it's far more important to stress what you believe the existing problem to be than it is to specify a very detailed and particular theoretical alternative. Doing the latter without the former is skipping the most important step.

 

[Karsticles]

I'm just saying that it's far more important to stress what you believe the existing problem to be than it is to specify a very detailed and particular theoretical alternative. Doing the latter without the former is skipping the most important step.

But we've repeatedly said that we're doing an explanatory essay with the changes.

 

[Dahbomb]

If we opt for plan B TAC option then that was my suggestion all along. Honestly its the most realistic TAC change they can make that still keeps the TAC useful in the current state while not being completely skewered in terms of risk/reward and not being random.

Also talking about the whole 3 directions give 3 different benefits with a lot of people, that is something almost no one is willing to give up. Only Phoenix players seem to hate the meter steal option so I think we should probably think about replacing just that option. Maybe.

 

[Karsticles]

If we opt for plan B TAC option then that was my suggestion all along. Honestly its the most realistic TAC change they can make that still keeps the TAC useful in the current state while not being completely skewered in terms of risk/reward and not being random.

Also talking about the whole 3 directions give 3 different benefits with a lot of people, that is something almost no one is willing to give up. Only Phoenix players seem to hate the meter steal option so I think we should probably think about replacing just that option. Maybe.

I have always hated all 3 options long before I played Phoenix. A huge part of this game is meter management, and TACs just fuck it all up. It makes as much sense as giving people more X-Factor activations because they get a down TAC. It pissed me off even more than I started to use Dark Harmonizer, and then even more when I started to play Phoenix. I have massive hatred for this system and will down-vote anything that retains it. I will also communicate your plan B TAC option to Capcom, though.

 

[Azure J]

What's the plan B for TACs?

 

[Frantic]

I sent you a PM with my e-mail Karst.

I'll finish up my thoughts on certain things in the changelist some other time. I feel like crap today. x_x

 

[Karsticles]

I sent you a PM with my e-mail Karst.

I'll finish up my thoughts on certain things in the changelist some other time. I feel like crap today. x_x

Feel better.

 

[Dahbomb]

Well my B plan suggestion doesn't change much about TACs except the counter window (20 frames to react to it) and of course infinites removed with combos starting at 0 HSD and building back up normally until either player touches the ground.

I think it is indeed best to offer multiple solutions after giving our problems with the system. The system is too big for an overhaul, would change the way the game is played.

Also this is going to get a very livid response but I am going to say it anyway...

I think it's a bad idea to replace Dark Hole with Dark Matter as an assist. At first I was on board with the idea, now I am not. Mostly because people are actually playing and competing with the character at the highest level still make use of the assist on their team. If there is no Dark Hole on Angelic's team, he has no lock down for instant overheads with mix ups for Wolverine. No Dark Hole on MastaCJ/Wentinel's team means more limited combo selections for Wesker because he needs that wall bounce. I think you should keep Dark Hole but make it tracking like you made Judgment Cut. It would still provide some utility for teams that want to play the character but would still like some lock down capability. I don't think Dark Matter is some OP broken assist (it's not, not even close obviously) but I think it's not worth making the change because it screws over some teams that already are made and played.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

So is Human Rocket no longer safe?

 

[Dahbomb]

I seriously doubt it, with the way the move is used it would have to be like -50 or more for it to be punishable.

Although I forgot the reasoning for the change.

 

[Kadey]

Who wants to play? Need a lobby up.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

I seriously doubt it, with the way the move is used it would have to be like -50 or more for it to be punishable.

Although I forgot the reasoning for the change.

Well if it can still be thrown out there pretty much willy nilly then I guess I have no issue with the nerf. But if it's punishable then it deserves some kind of buff.

I would like the reason though if anyone knows.

 

[Karsticles]

Well my B plan suggestion doesn't change much about TACs except the counter window (20 frames to react to it) and of course infinites removed with combos starting at 0 HSD and building back up normally until either player touches the ground.

I think it is indeed best to offer multiple solutions after giving our problems with the system. The system is too big for an overhaul, would change the way the game is played.

Also this is going to get a very livid response but I am going to say it anyway...

I think it's a bad idea to replace Dark Hole with Dark Matter as an assist. At first I was on board with the idea, now I am not. Mostly because people are actually playing and competing with the character at the highest level still make use of the assist on their team. If there is no Dark Hole on Angelic's team, he has no lock down for instant overheads with mix ups for Wolverine. No Dark Hole on MastaCJ/Wentinel's team means more limited combo selections for Wesker because he needs that wall bounce. I think you should keep Dark Hole but make it tracking like you made Judgment Cut. It would still provide some utility for teams that want to play the character but would still like some lock down capability. I don't think Dark Matter is some OP broken assist (it's not, not even close obviously) but I think it's not worth making the change because it screws over some teams that already are made and played.

Oh this note, KaneBlueRiver seems to be looking at dropping Sentinel. He did a FT7 MM using Hulk/Haggar/Shuma-Gorath; Mystic Ray does everything Rocket Punch does and more. Since he was the only Rocket Punch L assist user in the world, you can hereby feel better about that change.

Angelic doesn't use Dark Hole for lockdown into instant overheads. Almost no one does because Dark Hole causes a soft knockdown after it lifts. It's not like Cold Star where the opponent is left standing. Instant overheads during Dark Hole tend to be dropped combos. Even after practicing it for hours with Firebrand it still drops half the time because Dark Hole hits rapidly and is thus very finicky. Angelic uses Dark Hole for combo extension (esp. throws), and Dark Matter would still serve that role for him, as would Purification, since Wolverine can superjump with Purification and MMH, Drill Claw, Dive Kick, and then go into jump loops - it's actually an improvement for him if Purification comes out fast enough.

I don't agree with your assessment of Dark Hole. An assist that is only useful for combo extensions is terrible. Most characters have a combo extension with Dark Hole, but it exists because players try and make what they have work. Even for Wesker, Dark Matter will be superior because he can use it for teleport mix-ups, and that's far more important than a small, high-scaling combo extension. I guarantee you that Dark Matter will lead to better combos for Wesker, too. Instead of doing a ground bounce, Wesker can just do two qcf.L extensions, and then Dark Matter for the third; I bet it leads to just as much or more damage as Dark Matter. Not to mention that since Wesker is already a master at harassing with his gun, the possibility of a gunshot comboing into a wall bounce leads to big damage for him.

Even if we left Dark Hole in the game, I promise you that no one would use it. Dark Matter is also not worth sacrificing because it gives Dormammu synergy with a wide range of teams, which is part of the goal. Purification only works for select characters, Dark Hole is bad, and Dark Spell L is just there for flavor. A projectile that wall bounces will find a place on a lot of teams, and if a few teams are given some small inconvenience as a result, that's a worthwhile sacrifice.

Keep in mind that I use Dark Hole on my team, and I need it for unblockable setups for Firebrand. So my team will be among those affected. It's a good choice, though.

So is Human Rocket no longer safe?

That's the goal.

Well if it can still be thrown out there pretty much willy nilly then I guess I have no issue with the nerf. But if it's punishable then it deserves some kind of buff.

I would like the reason though if anyone knows.

It's 100% safe now, and we made it punishable. It's basically a Bionic Lancer that can be used for mix-ups right now.

 

[Dahbomb]

I don't think it's possible to make it unsafe, he usually does it at a space where it's impossible to punish because he goes to the opposite corner of the screen. Someone like Magneto's Shockwave is like -70 or something, some characters still have problems punishing it on block what makes you think people are going to punish Human Rocket when they are in mid air?

So yea the change confuses me. You would have to lower recovery way down for that to happen and I don't think that should happen. The main problem with the move is the random cross ups it can do, not that it can be made safe.

And hey a tracking Dark Hole could definitely have utility. I mean I can just think of so many situations where something like that would be useful. You are playing a full screen zoning game with Wesker against let's say Hawkeye. You do your usual gun shot to make him block, call assist... that's a FULL SCREEN LOCK DOWN and will give Wesker enough time to get in and go for a command throw/cr.L stagger mix up. At a long range that's also enough time for Spencer to get in with that type of lock down and that type of distance.

Dark Hole currently sucks because the space that it comes out at is very very situational. If it came out on the opponent's position that becomes a very valuable tool especially for rushdown characters. It also becomes a much more reliable combo extender for many characters. I pretty much play 3 rushdown characters, 2 of which use up a wall bounce and something like that would be way more useful than Dark Matter. There are already MANY horizontal assists in the game including a projectile invincible wall bounce assist and Log Trap... there would be nothing quite like a tracking Dark Hole in the game.

Some food for thought. Maybe put it to a vote. I mean when you suggested Judgment Cut as tracking you definitely opened the gate for a tracking Dark Hole as well.

 

[Karsticles]

I don't think it's possible to make it unsafe, he usually does it at a space where it's impossible to punish because he goes to the opposite corner of the screen. Someone like Magneto's Shockwave is like -70 or something, some characters still have problems punishing it on block what makes you think people are going to punish Human Rocket when they are in mid air?

So yea the change confuses me. You would have to lower recovery way down for that to happen and I don't think that should happen. The main problem with the move is the random cross ups it can do, not that it can be made safe.

And hey a tracking Dark Hole could definitely have utility. I mean I can just think of so many situations where something like that would be useful. You are playing a full screen zoning game with Wesker against let's say Hawkeye. You do your usual gun shot to make him block, call assist... that's a FULL SCREEN LOCK DOWN and will give Wesker enough time to get in and go for a command throw/cr.L stagger mix up. At a long range that's also enough time for Spencer to get in with that type of lock down and that type of distance.

Dark Hole currently sucks because the space that it comes out at is very very situational. If it came out on the opponent's position that becomes a very valuable tool especially for rushdown characters. It also becomes a much more reliable combo extender for many characters. I pretty much play 3 rushdown characters, 2 of which use up a wall bounce and something like that would be way more useful than Dark Matter. There are already MANY horizontal assists in the game including a projectile invincible wall bounce assist and Log Trap... there would be nothing quite like a tracking Dark Hole in the game.

Some food for thought. Maybe put it to a vote. I mean when you suggested Judgment Cut as tracking you definitely opened the gate for a tracking Dark Hole as well.

I don't disagree about the tracking Dark Hole issue. That would be very good. It's too bad we can't have 4 assists, because Dormammu has 5 good options! No Flame Carpet is the easiest...I wish we could get rid of Liberation in favor of assists that are actually useful...

Let me think on it. I'm not entirely opposed to your suggestion. Though Dark Matter is also a one-of-a-kind assist. There are no full screen projectiles that cause a wall bounce. A character like Hawkeye could really appreciate that.

 

[Dahbomb]

Log Trap kinda applies. I mean not full screen but still pretty good.

Make no mistake, I too think Dark Matter would be an excellent assist but this goes back to my point in previous discussions that it's better to improve a current assist than replacing it entirely.

Also when do we start doing committee work? I don't know what I am supposed to be doing right now.