MiniBossBattle
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Dorm won a major. Nerf Dorm
He got two major nerfs!Dorm won a major. Nerf Dorm
Fixed.Dorm won a local. Nerf Dorm
I specified that it can only link into s.L, so she won't be doing relaunches with this.You don't want X23 getting solo combos off her OTG. It may be harder than Doom's but it becomes the same thing. Remember she has a LVL3 unlockable and she would be able to combo after it solo without XF and assist.
The only change on Ankle Slice that was needed was that it came out faster, that's it. This was basically a change to make her OTG like Wolverines, faster and reliable so she can combo off throws
I just tested this out of curiosity, they air recover if you let it complete, they hit the ground and recover if you cancel it before completion. And that's even if you start point blank, the initial burst doesn't hit them. Works in the corner, though, but only if you cancel it before completion so the burst hits them.Mango Sentinel what happens when you do Proton Cannon XF Proton at mid screen?
Wow so in our changes Iron Man STILL can't PC XF PC?I just tested this out of curiosity, they air recover if you let it complete, they hit the ground and recover if you cancel it before completion. And that's even if you start point blank, the initial burst doesn't hit them. Works in the corner, though.
It misses....but not because they recover but because it starts up too slow. When I used to play iron man a lot I would combo into proton cannon and then xf dash and do a cr. M and then super again. Full screen I don't think you can do anything. So if it caused a spinning state like Dante does then it would be better. Another note is that it may not cause soft knockdown on the second to last hit....it may be a couple hits before that. I usually xf about 5 hits before it endsMango Sentinel what happens when you do Proton Cannon XF Proton at mid screen?
He can already do double beam hypers if he dashes up with Repulsar Blast after XF. The problem is full screen you can't confirm anything.I'm hesitant on giving Iron Man that Magneto-like movement while also giving him double beam hypers.
I usually hit people with prediction Proton Cannon.He can already do double beam hypers if he dashes up with Repulsar Blast after XF. The problem is full screen you can't confirm anything.
And no one is getting hit by a full screen Proton Cannon punish... ROFLMAO! He would have to DHC into it. Storm can easily follow up her hyper with XF, regardless of screen.
Whatever, its a minor issue... as long as I get my air/ ground dash stuff
X-23:
*Ankle Slice now always OTGs; charged version start up time reduced to 30 frames and recovers fast enough to allow for a solo launch via s.L; cannot be canceled into Weapon X Prime; no longer staggers; assist version comes out in 35 frames.
*Rage Trigger now causes a soft knockdown.
*Weapon X Prime causes a hard knockdown.
*Slight hitstun increase on aerial normals.
*Untechable time after air and ground throws increased.
*M/H Talon cancelable into Talon L. If canceled through other Talons it causes a hard knockdown, other wise it stays as it is (ie. doing Talon L after Crescent Scythe is the same as it is now)
*Health changed to 900,000.
*X-23 is considered airborne for all frames of her Mirage Feint moves.
*Talon Attack M hitstun increased.
Assists: Crescent Scythe H, Ankle Slice, Neck Slice (Charged)
That feels sloppy, but I think it addresses all the problems.
I added some suggestions for each character:
Spider-man:
*Web Glide can no longer be block canceled.
*Web Ball H (assist) is unaffected by hitstun deterioration.
*Spider Bite (assist) hits overhead and caused a ground bounce.
*Spider Swing input changed to f.H.
*Ultimate Web Throw hitbox changed to better match the animation; startup reduced to 15+3.
*Untechable time after Maximum Spider increased slightly; now possible to OTG follow-up.
*Standing and crouching normals now pull opponents in more.
Assists: Web Ball H, Web Swing H, Spider Sting H x Spider Bite
WaitToy touch can otg more than one target
Wait
It doesn't already?
That doesn't make any sense, it's not a projectile that gets used up like Wesker's Samurai Edge.
H Web Swing does soft knockdown.
Interesting....KBR is dropping Sentinel for Shuma: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI8BR6_LxKk
Yeah the more I think about Web Swing the more I think you really have to leave it as is with only a change from HCB to QCB.
Web Swing has 3 versions so if you map it to just f+H he only has access to one version. Most people prefer the L version but the H version does more damage... so you would have to give it a frame data where it has the best of all versions. That will probably make it TOO easy but that's really how it should've been from the start. Having 3 versions of that move is just unnecessary unless there were more unique properties to them.
Capcom designed themselves in a corner with the whole Web Swing + Web Throw stuff and the control inputs of the game. You either make Web Swing RDP and Web Throw HCB or you flip them. The only other control method that makes sense is making one of them QCB.
So my new propose control method is one of the following:
A) Web Swing: RDP, Web Throw: QCB
B) Web Swing: QCB, Web Throw: RDP
Spider Man players can choose between the two.
The inputs are the reason I don't play Spider-Man. Doing reverse DP's mid-combos is for some reason the most awkward thing my hands have to do. I'm perfectly able to do the motions in rapid consecutive fashion like Dormammu teleports, or at the end of a combo for hypers, but midway through a speedy combo my brain freezes. It's one of the few moves that's mapped to something that doesn't match intuitively, but some subjectivity may be at play here.
The inputs are the reason I don't play Spider-Man. Doing reverse DP's mid-combos is for some reason the most awkward thing my hands have to do. I'm perfectly able to do the motions in rapid consecutive fashion like Dormammu teleports, or at the end of a combo for hypers, but midway through a speedy combo my brain freezes. It's one of the few moves that's mapped to something that doesn't match intuitively, but some subjectivity may be at play here.
I think it's a limit of his MSH grounded move set combined with 3 attack buttons.
Next go around, I think he should be done from the ground up. This is pretty much as spidery as his current set can be IMO - time for him and a bunch of others to graduate.
I, too approve of this change.Oh yeah biggest thing,
Air Delta Kick no longer drops in happy birthday situations
Restreaming some japanese Nico Nico stream's content without permission. Forget the event, but it was recently.Why was Kadey's channel closed?
Restreaming some japanese Nico Nico stream's content without permission. Forget the event, but it was recently.
I think it's a limit of his MSH grounded move set combined with 3 attack buttons.
Next go around, I think he should be done from the ground up. This is pretty much as spidery as his current set can be IMO - time for him and a bunch of others to graduate.
I'm not willing to budge on that. The most I would be willing to do is left him be able to block X number of frames after letting go of the input like I suggested for Amaterasu. It's already an airdash that puts an opponent into blockstun automatically - that's really good.tl; dr -- should be able to block cancel zip.
I plan on doing the write-up, if you don't mind.If anyone has ANY change for any character or even system changes.... now would be a time to voice your concerns or suggestions. Tomorrow we are going to start revising the changes and maybe vote on the highly divisive issues. After that we are probably going to submit them to someone and start circulating it. I expect a lot of backlash but I don't care.
I will also make a more in depth write up of specific characters and why we made the changes that we did (like Viscant did). Plus of course... a new tier list.
Added.I guess I'll toss in my thoughts for Felicia:
- Cat Punch should cause a wallbounce or something. Karst said it should cause crumple. Either/or, imo. There just ought to be some kind of utility for it. There is literally no reason to use it right now. Its supposed purpose is that it's safer than the slide, but if you space the slide properly then that move is safe anyway.
- Wall cling and wall jump ought to be usable at super jump height. I guess? I dunno. I'm not really sure why she has this limitation.
Isn't it fair for its priority and benefits?- The aerial version of Delta Kick should either lose the starting upward kick (leaving just the quick downward descent) or just have it sped up considerably. That move has an awful lot of start-up.
I think this is covered by a system change.- The hitstun on Rolling Buckler crossover counter should be returned to vanilla MvC3 levels. She used to get full combos off of this. She can't in Ultimate.
Isn't Sand Splash good for being anti-projectile, adding pressure, etc?- The Sand Splash assist should be changed to Toy Touch. It's just a better OTG all around: faster, hits low, picks up multiple characters.
Does it drop randomly, or does it always only pick up one character?- Having Air Delta Kick not randomly drop in happy birthdays would be nice, but I'm not sure if this would require a system-wide change or something. IIRC other moves that cause ground-bounce have similar issues.
We're at 10 changes for Felicia, so you'd have to give something up for this. I'm not opposed to Kitty Helper changes.- Buff Kitty Helper. I know it probably sounds greedy and crazy to buff a move that sets up self-unblockables, but hear me out: Felicia is a rushdown pixie with no high/low game. She doesn't tri-dash all over your dome. She doesn't have a grounded overhead. And her air normals suck as instant overheads; their hitboxes are very high above the ground and the only character that is remotely easy to fuzzy guard and convert into a full combo is Sentinel. And Kitty Helper is not only pretty easy to run away from, it's also not unfeasible for the opponent to weave around its slow attack a lot of times and get in on Felicia anyway. Pretty much the only situation in which you're guaranteed to get some use out of it is on a corner incoming mix-up against a character who has no air options, and if they successfully block you once and push you out they're good. That's pretty limited. So I'd just make the helper run considerably faster and jump considerably farther so that it isn't as difficult to establish pressure with it. Check how it works in Vampire Savior for a reference. It'd also be nice if it didn't disappear when Felicia uses a snapback (she'd be spending 2 meters for a setup at this point, 1 for the helper and 1 for the snap, which is a decent amount of resources to invest), and it'd also be nice if it didn't disappear after being grabbed by Shuma (why is this a thing...).
If she does it randomly, it's pretty easy to punish by dashing back and hitting her, I think.I'm pretty good with everything else. Someone mentioned making Cat & Mouse special-cancelable. I'm not sure if it's a wise idea to give her an invincible dash that can be chained into a 1-frame command grab that she can solo-combo from.
Felicia players are split on this; I'd like some conversation to take place.Jump-cancelable Rolling Uppercut would be... weird. No soft knockdown on Dancing Flash pls (I'm good with it as-is: the 9th hit having knockdown, with the final hits launching the opponent).
Do you have a video showing the random height of s.H? I've never noticed this.PS: Hawkeye's s.H should fire at a consistent, low height, instead of the random height that it currently fires at. It would be nice to be able to complete Net Arrow loops without having to manually aim downward for each s.H arrow to ensure that they don't drop.
Make Taskmaster players use their brains a little bit!PPS: Taskmaster's Spidey Swing should auto-correct when the opponent goes behind him. Not sure why this was taken away in Ultimate.
Does he have a momentary cling animation during the wall jump? I'll add it in if so, but if not, that's a new animation and the rules say no.One last thing for Spider-Man -- give him a wall cling. Would make a ton more sense than his wall jump.
As an assist? Not really, imo. The only reason anyone uses it is for an OTG. Might as well swap it out for a better OTG. Unless you want to make Sand Splash also hit low or something. That'd be pretty rad. And probably dumb.Isn't Sand Splash good for being anti-projectile, adding pressure, etc?
It depends on who the point and assist are. I *think* it connects on both opponents if the point hurtbox is bigger than the assist hurtbox, and drops both opponents if the assist hurtbox is bigger. I haven't done thorough testing. I just know that the behavior is consistent according to the opposing characters.Does it drop randomly, or does it always only pick up one character?
Just move this one up on the list. I think it's probably the most useful. I can deal with ADK being unreliable in birthdays or no assist changes.We're at 10 changes for Felicia, so you'd have to give something up for this. I'm not opposed to Kitty Helper changes.
A completed Dancing Flash shouldn't cause a knockdown. She has a good air throw. She has a decent anti-air. Forcing an aerial recovery has certain applications to it. You can cut the move short by 3 hits if you really need a knockdown as-is.Felicia players are split on this; I'd like some conversation to take place.
Just fire up training mode and press H a few times. The arrow comes out at a random height. Practice OTG s.H -> net arrow loops long enough without aiming it, and you're sure to see it sail over some characters' heads with varying frequency. Fire off a few fully-charged H's and you should notice that they have a slightly different arrangement each time.Do you have a video showing the random height of s.H? I've never noticed this.
Does he have a momentary cling animation during the wall jump? I'll add it in if so, but if not, that's a new animation and the rules say no.
Tell me how to make Rolling Uppercut worth using, then.She really doesn't need an HP boost or a better dash, either. Her plink dash is just good enough to convert off of her forward ground throw as-is. Dash forward Sand Splash is a decent if kind of ghetto way to close distance, too. It's fine.
Jump cancelable Rolling Uppercut still doesn't make any sense.
Joke option request: Give back her head perch and/or hug command taunt from Darkstalkers.
Nah its way too early. Some of the stuff is definitely not thought over well enough.I want opinions on whether I should post our rough draft patch note list on other websites tomorrow for discussion and feedback.
It's the only throw she has that is even remotely difficult to convert from in the first place, and only for small characters. I can live with that. Heck, the only time you should be using that throw anyway is when she's in s.H wars with Hulk, who is relatively easy to convert.Players shouldn't have to plink dash to convert off of their throws.
If anyone has ANY change for any character or even system changes.... now would be a time to voice your concerns or suggestions. Tomorrow we are going to start revising the changes and maybe vote on the highly divisive issues. After that we are probably going to submit them to someone and start circulating it. I expect a lot of backlash but I don't care.
I will also make a more in depth write up of specific characters and why we made the changes that we did (like Viscant did). Plus of course... a new tier list.
I'm not really a fan of this. It sounds like it would drag games out and make things difficult for low damage characters. Characters doing too much damage is a problem in the current game, but I feel individual nerfs and TAC changes would address that.Damage Changes:
*All character health increased by 20% (individually changed character health does not factor this in).
Debated:
*Air and ground dashes enabled pre-match. OR No pre-match movement.
Iron Man:
*Smart Bomb now differs in trajectory by input: L version closer to Iron Man, H version furthest away; hitbox significantly increased; can now be charged: after 15 additional frames of charging, gains a larger hitbox, more hitstun, more durability, and descends slower; assist version has 35 frames of startup.
Spider-man:
*Spider Swing input changed to f.H.
Wolverine:
*Wavedashing with Wolverine is less likely to activate Berserker Charge.
I'd rather the scaling for Raikousen be fixed. I'm not a fan of lightning loops to begin with so I'd be happy if it were just gone, keep the soft knockdown.Zero:
*Soft knockdown on Raikousen removed; minimum hitstun remains high; Lightning Loops still possible.
*Raikousen canceled by Buster no longer creates a hitbox.
*Level 3 buster startup increased to 10, requires 180 charging frames, hits 9 times; projectile is now 9x1 durability.
I'd still like to also see the input change to S+Atk, I saw some support for it throughout the thread and I've seen this on wishlists over the years. It's a far more reliable input and that's how it was in MvC2 anyway. SRK's are occasionally problematic for a lot of people especially mid-combo.
You dolts got me to hook up my 360 and monitor just to make sure I could re-confirm something I was already positive of in the first place. Yes, the height is random, and there's some pretty significant variance on it. Just mash that H button and see for yourself.RE: Hawkeye's s.H -- is it really random? Seems pretty samey most of the time to me, it's just that the negative (positive?) edge from the special followups seem to tweak the trajectory, it's more feathery than a Toyota's handling.
X-23:
*Angle Slice charged version startup time reduced to 30 frames and allows for a s.L link afterward; cannot be canceled into Weapon X Prime; non-charged version now OTGs with minimal hitstun (can connect Rage Trigger); assist version comes out in 35 frames.
*Rage Trigger now causes a soft knockdown.
*Weapon X Prime causes a hard knockdown.
*Slight hitstun increase on aerial normals.
*Untechable time after air and ground throws increased.
*M/H Talon cancelable into Talon L. If canceled through other Talons it causes a hard knockdown, other wise it stays as it is (ie. doing Talon L after Crescent Scythe is the same as it is now)
*Health changed to 900,000.
*X-23 is considered airborne for all frames of her Mirage Feint moves.
*Talon Attack M hitstun increased.
*j.M hitbox increased slightly.
Assists: Crescent Scythe H, Ankle Slice, Neck Slice (Charged)