LMAO... Beef scaring away Viscant.
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT4| Nothing Stops This Patch!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
It's just a gripe, nothing that serious. I'm fine with it being taken off. I have just had one too many times where I jump over Optic Laser, Viper has no meter, and I'm like "sucker!" and out of nowhere I get bopped by an invisible hitbox.Why you hatin' on my girl for?
Makes me sad.
Much like Vergil's normals.
but i play dante so i can't complain too much >_>
lol
It's okay Viscant, not everyone has mean things to say about you! #teampurity
What you want... already exists. Good Doom combos presently avoid OTGs as much as possible (early in the combo) and you only transition to OTGs late in the combo when that is his only option to keep the combo going. I don't understand why this even a problem.
Currently:
-Using a bunch of OTG relaunches lets you do easy-mode Doom combos that do pretty good damage still.
-Good Doom combos do significantly more damage than the easy-mode combos and already minimize the use of OTGs.
-Doom combo length is normal by marvel standards.
Karsticles
Member
I feel like a 10% damage nerf is enough; do you?
Dr. Doom standup comedy: "I just flew in from Latveria, and boy are my feet tired."
Professor Beef
Banned
Did he really say that?
Karsticles
Member
Yep. In response to me saying that we were going to send him our UMvC3 change log. On this stream:
http://www.twitch.tv/sandiegofgc/new#
Other folks heard it in the FGW thread if you want to confirm it outside of me.
I just think that having HM dash cancellable would make Dr.Doom incoming mixups scarier and safer. A very strong zoning technique with Doom is to cancel the HM (the only way to cancel other than xfactor) with follow my lead to bait your opponent into getting hit. Having it hyper cancellable would make him be able to call assists during his hyper which further makes him a better zoner.
In regards to air throw, I am against the notion that you can combo from an air grab at any height specially when its so derpy already. This is for all characters. It should be height and space based. In my eyes, its not fair to let Nova combo from any air grab on the screen while Sentinel cannot. No character should have the ability. Dr.Doom can do that from his back air throw anyway so he is good enough as he is.
Btw, I say all this and Dr. Doom is my favourite character on point.
10% would probably be fine. Given Dahbomb's hate for Doom's easy combos, you could nerf everything aside from j.M by 5% and j.M by 20%. Doom's easy combos use many more j.Ms than optimized combos, so it'd weight the nerf to affect lazy players more significantly than players already doing more optimized combos.
No one is going to be baited into getting hit- that's a non-issue. Making it hyper-cancellable has nothing to do with being able to call assists.
Doom's air throw game is currently a huge step below Magneto's. Magneto get's to convert off of any throw and always gets to option select it with his amazing j.H. Doom's reliable option (back throw) gives you butter gun if you miss, which means you're fucked. Fwd. air throw needs to be more reliable so he has a decent option select into a reliable throw follow-up.
Unless Doom gets some crazy tech or strat in the neutral with a dash cancelable Missile I don't see a problem.
How much does an optimized aerial Doom combo do? No assists mid screen combo.
How much does an optimized aerial Doom combo do? No assists mid screen combo.
That's why I recommended the j.M nerf to begin with.
Maziodyne loops cannot be considered a bnb midscreen (I know Dahbomb didn't specify bnb, but still).
I saw another full screen BnB with Doom and it was out putting something like 700-750k damage meterless with over 900k damage. He reached near a Million with a single assist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkHWPFAgDYY&sns=em
Yea he needs a 10% reduction on his base normals. His case is exactly like Dorm, people aren't doing optimal shit because there is no need for it. Only Doom's cap for meterless damage is way higher.
Optimized combos for Doom will now do like 650K meterless which is still damn good.
Yea he needs a 10% reduction on his base normals. His case is exactly like Dorm, people aren't doing optimal shit because there is no need for it. Only Doom's cap for meterless damage is way higher.
Optimized combos for Doom will now do like 650K meterless which is still damn good.
Professor Beef
Banned
I'm not gonna remember to check the archives, so I'm just gonna assume you're right.
Professor Beef
Banned
Yeah, Panda posted it in the weekly thread.
"I just want to be loved!"
Sorry bro, no can do lol.
Karsticles
Member
Dahbomb and I will overpower your hate with love. /1980's Carebears
Oh, and for those who don't visit the FGW thread often, ChrisG is banned from a tournament:
https://www.facebook.com/mashfestnyc/posts/505012206244473
Captain America's Hyper Charging Star should be truly projectile invincible. Right now it's just many points of high durability. Moves that are truly projectile invincible, like Nova's Human rocket, will go through Genmu Zero and other high durability projectiles while they beat Hyper Charging Star. The move while high damaging doesn't leave you able to do much when it hits and is extremely negative on block
Nova has a glitch where he can't whiff a normal after his air throw. If he presses a normal too soon he'll slowly float to the ground. it's a very slow float, he doesn't even have enough time to OTG after he lands to put the slowness in perspective.
Nova has a glitch where he can't whiff a normal after his air throw. If he presses a normal too soon he'll slowly float to the ground. it's a very slow float, he doesn't even have enough time to OTG after he lands to put the slowness in perspective.
Karsticles
Member
If no one is opposed to this, I will make the change.
I don't follow you. I see Nova players whiff j.H to get down faster all the time.
You have to time it somewhat carefully. It can't be done immediately after the throw. He'll enter a float state if you whiff a normal as soon as possible, it's why you never see a Nova player do it immediately after the throw. It's no big deal now since he gets nearly three seconds to pick up after a throw. It's more of an annoyance than anything.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Hyper Charging Star actually loses outright to Sand Splash. It's funny as hell.
I'm not. I can accept the suggested changes except the Buster nerf. I found some time to track down and look at the Zero day in the previous thread, and you added ridiculous Buster nerfs all on your own.
I saw enough backlash against the Buster nerfs with excellent reasoning, and hardly anything changed. At minimum the charge time should stay the same as it is now. 10 frame startup is fine as long as it doesn't affect its combo-ability, I don't think it would.
Raikousen is his problem, and that will be fixed. Buster is his best tool, but it isn't a problem.
Karsticles
Member
What on earth are you talking about? Everything in there was discussed openly in this thread. I don't sneak changes in - rofl.
Buster is a problem.
Buster itself is not a problem. Buster leading to characters dead is. His damage is nerfed significantly as is the scaling off of Buster. The charge time nerf is unwarranted because it might start affecting his combos as he needs the Buster charged in time for select combos.
Zero doesn't have great assists and he will be competing with other point characters for the spot, some of who have much better assists than him. If Zero ends up in top 10 again some how then he would be the only one without a great assist.
Zero doesn't have great assists and he will be competing with other point characters for the spot, some of who have much better assists than him. If Zero ends up in top 10 again some how then he would be the only one without a great assist.
I see it differently:
Who else mentioned those specific Buster nerfs before you posted this? I didn't see anything.
Buster is a problem for you, not the game
Karsticles
Member
Zero has good assists. Even FChamp referred to Ryuenjin as "Psylocke Assist". It has massive priority and very high hitstun.
And Zero is kind of like Doom. Everyone does his easy mode bnb with Vergil because they are too scared to do a solo mid-screen carry:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H9PkkFulYg
He can solo relaunch already without the buster.
Oh, the nerfs were definitely my idea, but they were discussed, changed, and approved, and then we moved on.Who else mentioned those specific Buster nerfs before you posted this? I didn't see anything.
Buster is a problem for you, not the game
If you want something changed, you should try arguing for it instead of making weird accusations at me.
I forgot to mention this as well, probably the biggest reason why the charge nerf needs to be reversed at minimum.
I can live with 10 frame startup and the durability/hits change.
We definitely discussed Buster nerfs. The previous nerfs were even more severe than this. I talked down Karst into the current one (yes the previous ones were worse than this) and said I would come back to them after we finished the cast. After re-evaluation is still looks severe.
I am not cheerleading for any one, I don't give a damn about the character or its players when it comes to what I believe to be fair. I keep all my discussion as unbiased as possible. Buster is a powerful tool and its supposed to be a powerful tool because its attached to a charge time. It defines the character as every part of his game plan revolves around it. Even a small change to his charge time is a big nerf.
Also there's no bargaining here. There's no "you can have this buff if I can have this buff" stuff. It just leads to shittier suggestions.
I am not cheerleading for any one, I don't give a damn about the character or its players when it comes to what I believe to be fair. I keep all my discussion as unbiased as possible. Buster is a powerful tool and its supposed to be a powerful tool because its attached to a charge time. It defines the character as every part of his game plan revolves around it. Even a small change to his charge time is a big nerf.
Also there's no bargaining here. There's no "you can have this buff if I can have this buff" stuff. It just leads to shittier suggestions.
How likely is it just to update the balance? That seems like a money-losing effort for them. They would need to add content/make a new version to charge something, but then there's the Marvel mega-license. I just don't see it happening. I think they kinda screwed themselves at SDCC by saying anything about the game other than, pack it up, no new content. It wasn't like they came out and asked people for input like Ultra. The topic came up in questions and It was pretty much, Ono saying yeah, it's not balanced as well as we'd like, but we don't have the money, talk amongst yourselves.
Karsticles
Member
It reads more like everyone just got tired of arguing with you and settled for a slight backtrack.
Point is nobody mentioned those nerfs, you simply stuck it in the first changelist on your own. When people fought against it you barely budged. The increased charge time is simply too much.
Karsticles
Member
That's how this thing works. Someone suggests a nerf, we discuss it, fine tune it and reach to a temporary agreement. Compromises have to be made.
Just like we did with many characters like Spencer just now. I am still completely against that nerf but it will be put to the vote. As will the Zero Buster change.
There is no change that will be implemented unless there's a 4/5 vote on it. So 4 people have to agree on the Buster changes.
Just like we did with many characters like Spencer just now. I am still completely against that nerf but it will be put to the vote. As will the Zero Buster change.
There is no change that will be implemented unless there's a 4/5 vote on it. So 4 people have to agree on the Buster changes.
I'm arguing for it, Dahbomb made excellent points recently, as did several people on Zero day.
Professor Beef
Banned
Wii games are heavily moddable because of the Wii being so easy to hack.
"God's Beard!"
Member
There's a lot of nitpicking on our list and frankly a lot of arbitrary stuff that could probably be solved in a more concise manner. I think for our second pass for the sake of brevity we should chop all the characters to 5 changes and get rid of anything else that's absolutely unnecessary.
It feels like for the sake of agreements with a large amount of people it's hard to get anything passed other than obvious changes and stuff so small nobody cares enough to argue.
We can narrow it down to changes that fix real problems only.
It feels like for the sake of agreements with a large amount of people it's hard to get anything passed other than obvious changes and stuff so small nobody cares enough to argue.
We can narrow it down to changes that fix real problems only.
Karsticles
Member
An argument involves making points, not just saying "It's too much!" over and over and making accusations against me. You've yet to make an actual point in your case. Consider looking at some of the posts others have made regarding recent characters for reference of what an argument entails.
It has something to do with loading from a flash drive, right?
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";73771218]There's a lot of nitpicking on our list and frankly a lot of arbitrary stuff that could probably be solved in a more concise manner. I think for our second pass for the sake of brevity we should chop all the characters to 5 changes and get rid of anything else that's absolutely unnecessary.
It feels like for the sake of agreements with a large amount of people it's hard to get anything passed other than obvious changes and stuff so small nobody cares enough to argue.
We can narrow it down to changes that fix real problems only.[/QUOTE]
What?! GB...that's ridiculous.
If there's a change that you think isn't needed, just say so and we will discuss it. There's no reason to limit every character to 5 changes.
Like when I requested the Smart Bombs input change? Your responses were quite amusing, just a total treat lol
Karsticles
Member
Input changes need strong arguments for them, not just "well, that's tradition". I even left Shuma-Gorath's inputs as goddamn charge moves. You're a Zero player, so dp motions should be second nature to you.
A few people have brought up the ATK+S input change, and I'm interested in it, but I haven't really seen a compelling argument. Would it somehow improve the character? Does the current input interfere with his gameplay in some way? None of the committee members have responded to these requests. It's truly bizarre that you are focusing on me. If no committee member attaches to an idea, it doesn't move - it is required that 4/5 vote for it. Instead of whining to me, whine to another member to take up your cause. I just change the list - I don't control what's on it beyond the initial suggestions I post, which are my own ideas, which is how everyone should be doing it.
JeTmAn81
Member
Yes. I downloaded the files and I'm looking over the structure of what they've got there. They have individual files for the system, stages, each character, etc. But what I'm most interested in is how they compiled these data files (they aren't plain text) and how they knew how to write something that could change the game in the ways they wanted.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";73771218]There's a lot of nitpicking on our list and frankly a lot of arbitrary stuff that could probably be solved in a more concise manner. I think for our second pass for the sake of brevity we should chop all the characters to 5 changes and get rid of anything else that's absolutely unnecessary.
It feels like for the sake of agreements with a large amount of people it's hard to get anything passed other than obvious changes and stuff so small nobody cares enough to argue.
We can narrow it down to changes that fix real problems only.[/QUOTE]
The problem is some characters have more than 10 problems. Like we seriously struggled to bring Iron Fist down to 10 changes.
10 changes is the minimum to make some characters even competitive in the current meta game. Capcom did more 10 changes on some characters like Cap and it still wasn't enough for some cases.
It feels like for the sake of agreements with a large amount of people it's hard to get anything passed other than obvious changes and stuff so small nobody cares enough to argue.
We can narrow it down to changes that fix real problems only.[/QUOTE]
The problem is some characters have more than 10 problems. Like we seriously struggled to bring Iron Fist down to 10 changes.
10 changes is the minimum to make some characters even competitive in the current meta game. Capcom did more 10 changes on some characters like Cap and it still wasn't enough for some cases.
Karsticles
Member
I only have two semesters of C++ behind me, so it's definitely beyond my present understanding...
JeTmAn81
Member
I have a lifetime of programming experience, but I've never done anything like hacking a game. My guess is it's a lot harder with the HD systems, but not impossible.
"God's Beard!"
Member
If ten changes isn't enough to make a charcter good, maybe we need to look at the changes. I'd rather have 5 changes that get people's attention than 10 that only change little tiny things.
kevo_huevo
Member
i hate it when this happens. i always thought it was lag, and not a known glitch. that shit is sooo stupid. i should just get out of the habit of whiffing normals after an air throw.