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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT4| Nothing Stops This Patch!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
With that ratio list, I'd be able to rock my Dante/Trish/Strider team with 3 losses to work with. Nice.
But all three of them should really be one point higher. Jam Session is too valuable for too many characters, his anchor potential is really solid, and he generally has good matchups all around; Strider's come-back potential is too high, and with the right point character, his assist is a nightmare to deal with; and Trish has some skewed matchups against the lower rung characters, and is too solid against the higher tier characters to be a 3.
Also, Wolverine/Dante/Akuma is an 11 point team. Makes sense to me.
Oh, and,
But all three of them should really be one point higher. Jam Session is too valuable for too many characters, his anchor potential is really solid, and he generally has good matchups all around; Strider's come-back potential is too high, and with the right point character, his assist is a nightmare to deal with; and Trish has some skewed matchups against the lower rung characters, and is too solid against the higher tier characters to be a 3.
Also, Wolverine/Dante/Akuma is an 11 point team. Makes sense to me.
Oh, and,
it's there, clear as day!
Although I took the "point" there to be referring to the ratio points when I first read it. *shrug*
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Have any of you ever seen a match end in a double ko? I never have. Hell, I've only seen a draw happen once and it was to me.
Professor Beef
Banned
It's happened to me once. I won because I had won the previous round.
EDIT: Oh fuck I forgot I was posting in the UMvC3 thread LOL
Karsticles
Member
Happened yesterday in Street Fighter if that counts! Never in Marvel, though.
There was one time I was down to pixel Trish vs pixel Doom, and he super jumped up to do Photon Shot and I followed him up with a j.H, but Photon Shot came out and hit me at the same time as my j.H hit him and we both died. The game counted it as a "draw", though.
Dyni Crippler
Member
Happened to me a few days ago. Ends in a draw and nobody gets the win.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Nah it happens it street fighter frequently. Never seen it in Marvel 2 or 3 though
Wow I've NEVER seen that shit happen. A draw makes sense though since you obviously can't determine a winner.
I think the 3rd Strike had the absolute stupidest way to handle it
Karsticles
Member
How did 3rd Strike handle it?
At first, I was mad because I heard Trish's scream(and no Doom scream) and thought my solo full-team comeback was lost to something as lame as that, but then I saw "draw" and was like "I'll take it!"
It was actually my first(and so far only) draw, so it was pretty cool.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
If you had a double ko on the final round then it would show these judges and they would decide who got the victory. It was based on how the game decided how well you played. How many ex moves you landed, supers landed. Really dumb.
Blazblue irritates me as well. If you won the first round but got a double ko in the second, they award the round to the other player. Well I like when it happens in my favor, haha
Yeah I only have one as well. 40,000+ matches and only one draw.
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
I've had one double KO and it was hilarious because we both died by Objections.
And some characters are just more likely to get higher grades than others. Dudley's tend to get high grades due to his high combo hit numbers. To balance that, some slow low-combo characters get high grades for less work (I get A's with Q all the time for some reason).
Tournaments would ignore the computer-selected winner and consider it a draw, anyways.
Dyni Crippler
Member
Marvel 3 Vita and DLC content is gone from PSN store now.
Welp. Good thing I bought everything on the last sale.
On an unrelated note, I've been trying to extend my usual Frank combo (slide -> air combo -> tools of survival H midair -> air combo -> snapshot -> hyper) with Spencer's diagonal grapple assist. It works if I time it right, but if I try to do another air combo the opponent wakes up automatically. What should I do? I was thinking of cutting the post-extension combo to S -> air H -> air S -> snapshot. Would it work this way? Hope I've been clear enough.
Karsticles
Member
I actually don't follow your initial combo there.
Dyni Crippler
Member
Aight, let me rephrase that.
I generally start the combo with Frank's slide (down + H), because it's a really effective way to get in. From there it's a basic air combo (S -> L -> M -> H). Right after the H I use Tools of Survival H (Hadoken motion + H) while I'm still in midair, which causes the opponent to bounce once he hits the ground, allowing me to follow with another air combo (S -> L -> M -> M -> H -> S). Once he lands I just do the Snapshot and follow with a Hyper to maximize damage. Hope it's clear enough now.
Karsticles
Member
IIRC, when you do this combo you can land c.MH before the relaunch for a little more damage and meter.
If you use Spencer's horizontal grapple, can't you take two pictures?
Dyni Crippler
Member
I think you can, but I need the diagonal grapple for a tricky Wright combo that lets him go from Investigation to Turnabout.
I'll experiment a bit more to see if I can take a second picture with the diagonal grapple.
EDIT: Ok, I can do a simple grapple -> slide -> S -> knee drop and snap another picture. F -> S works too. Instant level three is not as good as instant level four, but Spencer is no Dante.
Karsticles
Member
Can you Frank West hyper -> Bionic Lancer, raw tag, Snapshot?
Dyni Crippler
Member
Huh, that's an interesting idea. I'll have to try it out later. If I can pull it right after the combo it'd be an istant level 4.
EDIT: From what I can tell the raw tag isn't fast enough with neither the Bionic Lancer nor the Steel Samurai Maya Smelting. Too bad.
Karsticles
Member
IMO, it is worthwhile to burn X-Factor to get level 4 Frank. Consider using that.
Are there any triple Hold It combos to allow a raw tag?
Dyni Crippler
Member
I've just checked with the Objection (which, I think, causes the same stun time of a Hold It), and if it's an air Objection you have plenty of time to tag Frank in. Wright's comboes are tricky, though, so I'm not sure if the timing would be right after a combo.
But yeah, X-Factor is worth it, especially if Wright is already dead.
Flying High
Member
Finally uploaded another set of Online UMVC3 matches, so enjoy guys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCGkiO1Nh-4
Dyni Crippler
Member
I love seeing less used characters like She-Hulk and Iron Fist.
I guess their rights to even sell the game is about to run out. Which means dlc becoming unpurchasable, discs stopping being sold, etc.
Great support, Capcom. Amazing what you did. And Marvel, just love the gentleman attitude about this. Letting them patch out stuff. Yeah, the courtesy and honor and respect. Damn. You truly love your fans, do ya?
With my main team being Doom/Dante/Strider, I've come to the realization that vajra is straight up useless in a lot of match-ups. I've decided to give Doom/Dante/Strange a shot so I have a version of my team that's better against certain teams (especially hidden missiles-based zoning teams). How the hell do you Strange? I've learned the basic jump loop combo and the xf teleport combo, but FoF loops aren't happening for me yet (though I started messing around with him in training mode like an hour ago, so cut me some slack!). I plan on watching the MiniBoss/Evil_Toaster youtube tutorial, but beyond that, not sure where to look for info, haha. Any assistance out there?
Karsticles
Member
"Thank you for playing".
By "a lot of matchups", do you mean "anything with Hidden Missiles"? Maybe you should just swap the order and have Doom on anchor for those matches. Make Plasma Beam your primary assist, which stuffs missiles.
Fascinating.
Curiouser and curiouser....
Can't watch at the moment, but didn't we already know this?
For example, I remember discussion on some of Dante's normals losing range because of X-Factor, or things not comboing correctly because the frame reduction removed the hitsphere. I thought we even accounted for it in the proposed patch changelist.
Karsticles
Member
We talked about frames dropping, but this is a very detailed video. I don't think any of us knew the effects were this drastic.
Some of Nova's moves get a smaller hitbox. Stand H and M randomly whiffs on small characters in X-factor.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
I can't really give any advice since I feel my Strange is ass (unless I'm in xf lolololol), but I can tell you that FotF loops are not nearly as difficult as people have tried to make them out to be. I can do them in matches with ease. Mid screen as well. You just have to make sure you're hitting the impact palm late in the active frames.
And I don't see how your team would suffer against many matchups if you just put Dante first. What assist are you running with Doom? The only matchups I can see being problematic is Mags/Doom or Hawkeye/Doom. But those are gonna be a problem for pretty much anyone that isn't Hawkeye, Chris, or Morrigan.
Meh, I've just learned to deal with it since I play Dante and Strider all the time and they both suffer from it. Didn't know about Vergil though.
I see. I'll have to take a look once I get home.
Karsticles
Member
There are clearly animation frames present that show the sword should be hitting, though. This looks more like a programming glitch where the hitbox was removed from some frames entirely, or maybe not all frames have a hitbox to improve performance, and the frames with a hitbox got cut while frames without a hitbox remained.
Mango- thanks for the advice. I usually have Doom on plasma beam assist as hidden missiles seems redundant given that I have jam session and vajra on my team already, and if Strider is snapped in, I'd rather have plasma beam for him.
Karst- putting Doom on anchor is a possibility. It creates major damage problems running Dante/Strider/Doom though. I'd either have to be reliant on TACs (skipping Strider to get to Doom) or play a more reset-heavy playstyle, which seems like a liability (would much rather ToD people, haha!)
I guess it boils down to a couple points:
1) There are match-ups where vajra is bad. Hidden missiles is the obvious hard counter to vajra, and vajra also offers very little utility against other common points (Nova chucking energy javelins shuts it down, I've had matches against Zero players where vajra was stuffed by Zero's normal repeatedly even though the Zero player wasn't even paying attention to my vajra calls, etc.).
2) Vajra becomes more and more marginalized against people who are good at the game and are experienced fighting against vajra. It feels like the power of this assist diminishes from S tier to B tier if your opponent has put in training mode time to deal with it. I play with a group of people regularly and these days, a match is an exception rather than the rule if vajra plays a major role in me winning. Jam session is strong no matter how much people practice ways around it! Karst- I know we've agreed before that Doom needs horizontal coverage/support, and it's come to the point that I don't think vajra can be that a lot of the time. Also, I have jam session, so there is some overlap in the function of the two assists.
3) My Doom is far and away my best character, so even though changing team order alleviates many bad match-ups, giving Doom more support will probably lead to better results as opposed to putting Dante first. This is more a personal failing as my Dante is mediocre and I need to put in more time improving him.
4) It's fun to mess around with new characters
I wasn't quite aware of all those moves having hitbox issues like that, but I knew that some of them did. Dante's cr.M is easily the worst offender, but it's only really that bad in XF2. In XF1 it's not that bad, and in XF3 it's pretty normal.
I'm fairly certainly that the reason it happens is that the active frames of moves changes with the speed increase, meaning the hurtboxes appear at the wrong times - or don't appear at all. Take for example Dante's cr.M - it has two active frames. The entire move - startup, active frames, and recovery - are affected by speed increases in XF. This means that you're decreasing the amount of active frames by 10/20/30% depending on the XF. But, because this game runs at 60 fps, the game can't really speed up such small numbers. Making two frames 30% faster wouldn't even make it one frame, for example. My guess is that the game cuts corners somewhere in between the frames to speed it up, and somehow the hitboxes gets cut too. Just my guess, anyways.
It's also only really prevalent with sword normals - Dante's and Strider's are the ones that are most noticeable(fucking Strider cr.H always whiffing and getting him killed) - because their hitboxes tend to be more 'varied' due to their long reach.
@Zissou - I know what you mean about Vajra. One of the many reasons why I dropped Dante/Vergil/Strider was because Vajra just wasn't cutting it alone. That's why I picked up Trish, because I wanted a horizontal assist, but wanted the DHC kills Vergil gave me.
As far as Strange goes on your team, I'd run Doom/Strange/Dante, personally. Strange benefits a lot from Jam Session assist imo, and Dante's a better anchor than Strange in the long run. Strange can scrub out victories with SoV into XF, but once your opponent gets used to it, it's much harder to do reliably. Dante's incoming Acid Rain mixups in XF3 will always remain impossible to block without purely guessing.
JohnPauliuk
Neo Member
Alright, brackets are up and I have LLND and Dekline in my pool. Should be lots of fun. Also do you guys have any advice for the neutral game for Shuma and RR? I seem to be struggling a bit with it. More RR than Shuma since RR is my Anchor and Spitfire for Shuma is amazing.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
I need to get back into this. I think I've only played marvel one time since ultra dropped.
Karsticles
Member
Right around the corner of a circle.
I guess the road towards waiting for MvC4 has started. It'll happen eventually, just not now. I anticipate the inclusions of at least Star-Lord, Groot, Black Widow, & Loki in the next one.
This brings me to my next topic, what are your thoughts on the recent costume changes for the Marvel characters since UMvC3?
This brings me to my next topic, what are your thoughts on the recent costume changes for the Marvel characters since UMvC3?
Like their redesigns in recent movies? I'm not really up to speed with how the characters look in their comics so I'm not sure if their comic versions had redesigns.
Personally I wouldn't want their cinema versions to represent them if MvC4 comes out. All the Marvel heroes have already established designs that are full of color and match the Capcom environment really well. Off the top of my head, Hawkeye from the Avengers movie is one of the most boring ones I've seen, same with Captain America.
Most don't seem to have changed dramatically, but:
Iron Man - He has nice suits from time to time. I like his Marvel NOW outfit. It's kind of weird, he's my favourite superhero but I don't really have a strong affinity for any of his armor colour schemes. Don't even really care for the Red/Gold even though it's iconic. I think the inverse scheme for Avengers 2/IM3 should never be used as a standard, though.
Hawkeye - I don't really mind Hawkeye with the Chevron on his chest, though people seem to hate it. It's a cool modernization. I would be down for Hawkguy alt too. His Avengers 2 costume is horrible.
Hulk - I kind of dislike Hulk when he has armor on him. It's kind of antithetic to his powers to me, and just makes it weirder to imagine him smashing people with anything but his bare fists. Classic design I can't imagine changing.
Magneto - I haven't fully kept up with the new series, but I don't think there is anything crazy new in there? Marvel NOW Magneto is already sort of done with one of his alts.
Spider-man - Didn't change dramatically I think? They have so many alts to choose from, it's ridiculous.
Ghost Rider - ugh
Nova - The only Nova is Richard Rider.
Rocket Raccoon - I think the Guardians in general haven't faired well being redesigned for the recent series. I don't think I like anything about the recent series. I don't really like film Drax either.
- - -
That said, now that the MCU ball is rolling, I guess it may be good to speculate who may be a newcomer in the next iteration? I mean, MvC3 is already pretty prophetic in terms of showing us what properties will be pushed in the future, but I still think it's a bit hard to call. My guesses:
- Maybe one more Guardian, depending on how good GotG does. I don't see them going beyond that.
- Black Panther: He's a shoe-in, I feel. Marvel is waiting for the right moment to let this go and it's very likely we could see it announced at this year's comic-con.
- Ms. Marvel: Just an all around great character to include. Highly versatile power-set means a lot of gameplay potential. She's always involved somewhere, and is likely to pop up in the MCU as well.
- I think any more characters are hard to predict. We're sort of at the limit of what Marvel is trying to push, and I don't expect stuff like Runaways or some of the TV characters (even Daredevil) to have a greater pull in the video game space.
Karsticles
Member
By the next game, half of Marvel's characters might be dead or obsolete. There is no guessing to be had yet.