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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT4| Nothing Stops This Patch!

Well I like coming up with all these interactions and I can draw, but I know nothing about programming and animation isn't my specialty even if I've done a little bit in 2d and 3d.

I have another big project that I'm slightly leaning towards right now since it better suits my skillset, but it's gonna take a year's worth of digital painting to get done. But if I do a good job, I think I can get a career started that involves painting and theory fighting that I'd really like. About a third of planning is done, and I feel really good about it.
 
I'm surprised no one plays Nova/Magneto/Sentinel.
Hardly anyone even plays Nova/Sentinel, even though Ifrit wrecked with it.

I guess another way to play would be Magneto on point with Nova plus Doom (Plasma Beam). You can go for unblockables with Magneto.
It sounds like he wants point Nova, though. I agree with you, though. Magneto is better on point in that team.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";74145235]Well I like coming up with all these interactions and I can draw, but I know nothing about programming and animation isn't my specialty even if I've done a little bit in 2d and 3d.

I have another big project that I'm slightly leaning towards right now since it better suits my skillset, but it's gonna take a year's worth of digital painting to get done. But if I do a good job, I think I can get a career started that involves painting and theory fighting that I'd really like. About a third of planning is done, and I feel really good about it.[/QUOTE]
I hope that works out for you. I want nothing but good things for everyone here!
 

Vanish

Member
I'm late here but why shouldn't Spider-Man be able to block cancel his web-glide? He's no where no near top tier, and a bunch of other characters have safe ways to get in on their opponent easily. Being able to block cancel is one of his greatest assets and taking it away would really hurt him.
 
I'm late here but why shouldn't Spider-Man be able to block cancel his web-glide? He's no where no near top tier, and a bunch of other characters have safe ways to get in on their opponent easily. Being able to block cancel is one of his greatest assets and taking it away would really hurt him.
1) Creates a hitbox on dash.
2) Is an aerial dash.
3) Can be block-canceled at any time.

Even having 2 of these things is a lot on a character. Having all 3 is nonsense. We gave Spider-man plenty of buffs to make up for the change, but now you'll have to put a little thought into your Web Glide.
 

Dahbomb

Member
I'm late here but why shouldn't Spider-Man be able to block cancel his web-glide? He's no where no near top tier, and a bunch of other characters have safe ways to get in on their opponent easily. Being able to block cancel is one of his greatest assets and taking it away would really hurt him.
Like who? Not that I am agreeing with the nerf but there are very few ways to get in solo like Web Zip. Teleports are unsafe, air dashes can't be blocked out of, ground dashes aren't better, rolls are unsafe, projectile invulnerable moves are unsafe, can't block during command dashes.

Spider Man's Web Glide ability is really only balanced by the fact that it's attached on Spider Man who has stubby limbs, weak OS game and a weak projectile game. That mobility option on someone like Hsien Ko would be nuts for example, like she would go up two tiers.

This change however definitely will be going through the vote.
 

Vanish

Member
Like who? Not that I am agreeing with the nerf but there are very few ways to get in solo like Web Zip. Teleports are unsafe, air dashes can't be blocked out of, ground dashes aren't better, rolls are unsafe, projectile invulnerable moves are unsafe, can't block during command dashes.

Spider Man's Web Glide ability is really only balanced by the fact that it's attached on Spider Man who has stubby limbs, weak OS game and a weak projectile game. That mobility option on someone like Hsien Ko would be nuts for example, like she would go up two tiers.

This change however definitely will be going through the vote.

I'm not as knowledgeable and technical as you guys but spencer has his wire grapples, Zero has those special dashes he can do in the air and ground (don't know what it's called), some characters have ridiculous air dashes (like Magneto) and all the teleports in the game. All of which can be made pretty safe with assists, and still extremely useful on their own.

Spider-Man's airdash is super slow so he has to rely on his web glide, and yeah, it may be safer than the other stuff I listed, but he does not have anywhere near the same quality and amount of tools these other higher tier characters have. I'm glad at least that it will go through a vote.
 
I'm not as knowledgeable and technical as you guys but spencer has his wire grapples,
Spencer cannot block during these.

Zero has those special dashes he can do in the air and ground (don't know what it's called),
Cannot block.

some characters have ridiculous air dashes (like Magneto) and all the teleports in the game. All of which can be made pretty safe with assists, and still extremely useful on their own.
Cannot block.

Spider-Man's airdash is super slow so he has to rely on his web glide, and yeah, it may be safer than the other stuff I listed, but he does not have anywhere near the same quality and amount of tools these other higher tier characters have. I'm glad at least that it will go through a vote.
Spider-man's air dash isn't any slower than Spencer's. It's a good speed. He can also cover it by doing Web Toss x Web Glide, and it's not like he can't call assists, either.
 

Azure J

Member
It sucks even worse because I know how to beat the strategy, but I never do because I'm expecting something completely different. I just can't stop thinking 'they're gonna do something smart this time!' but nope. Teleport! wooooo....

Sometimes it makes me think 'maybe I'm playing Dante/Strider wrong', but then when I try it I lose. >_>

The saltiest I truly ever get in this game is in watching others get away with murder, attempting the same crime and getting sentenced immediately for it.

I think too much I swear.

Edit: You all talking about game design make me sad that I've done fuck all with the numerous design documents I have looking me in the face every time I browse my external. :(
 
I'm all for Spider-Man blocking. It's not game-breaking and it's cool that one character gets his twist on a game mechanic. That's what makes Marvel fun, diversity. I think changing things for parity's sake is a misguided idea, but I can see where you're coming from.
 
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";74154583]I'm all for Spider-Man blocking. It's not game-breaking and it's cool that one character gets his twist on a game mechanic. That's what makes Marvel fun, diversity. I think changing things for parity's sake is a misguided idea, but I can see where you're coming from.[/QUOTE]
Two words: thoughtful play.

And it's not about parity - I just think Web Glide is too good. I respond to claims that Spider-man is not uniques with facts about issues of parity because that's the route people take.
 
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";74154883]If you were balancing Marvel 2 would you make Ice Man take chip damage?[/QUOTE]
Probably, unless I had full control of the game's design. Then I would give him a move that coats him in a sheet of ice that "chips" away (har har) when taking chip damage. This way he would get to have his unique feature, but it wouldn't become OP against certain team setups since he would have to earn the status.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Spider Man is not the character you should be punishing for using a less thoughtful tactic lol.

A lot of characters have one or two immensely powerful tools. Vergil has ridiculous st.H, st.S string and can forward Kara dash cancel with Stinger. Dante has bold cancel and so many of his moves are supremely plus on block. Zero has 1 frame recovery Sogenmu. Morrigan has fireballs coming out behind the opponent and fly cancel fireballs which make her extremely safe. Chris has a mine that does not disappear when he's hit.

Spider Man having a blockable Web Glide is the only powerful tool he has except for maybe his UWT reset compared to top tiers. That's the tool that makes one think about picking him over Spencer because aside from better mobility Spencer has him out classed. Two command throws, overhead, Bionic Arm, big damage and godly j.H for OS which has a ton of hit stun plus all this with more health.
 
Spider Man is not the character you should be punishing for using a less thoughtful tactic lol.

A lot of characters have one or two immensely powerful tools. Vergil has ridiculous st.H, st.S string and can forward Kara dash cancel with Stinger. Dante has bold cancel and so many of his moves are supremely plus on block. Zero has 1 frame recovery Sogenmu. Morrigan has fireballs coming out behind the opponent and fly cancel fireballs which make her extremely safe. Chris has a mine that does not disappear when he's hit.

Spider Man having a blockable Web Glide is the only powerful tool he has except for maybe his UWT reset compared to top tiers. That's the tool that makes one think about picking him over Spencer because aside from better mobility Spencer has him out classed. Two command throws, overhead, Bionic Arm, big damage and godly j.H for OS which has a ton of hit stun plus all this with more health.
Spider-man's pressure and mix-ups are so much better than Spencer's. It's just that Spider-man players are rare because he takes more skill to use, and Spencer has the herpaderp Bionic Lancer.

All of my buffs to Spider-man are predicated on making up for the Web Glide nerf. If that goes, I'm not signing off on any of the buffs, either. We'd have to rework the discussion from scratch on my end.

But really, we should be focusing on the system changes. We'll discuss Spider-man when it's time to discuss Spider-man.

GB and Dahbomb, if you two are going to hash it out about superjump assists and the universal health boost, go to it. Otherwise I'll just let the 4/5 rule prevail on the latter. There's no reason to let the vote stagnate due to apathy.
 

Dahbomb

Member
I gave my arguments for health boost in the previous page. I was actually waiting for GB's response to it.

Super jump assist I will talk about tomorrow. About to go to sleep.
 

Skilletor

Member
Magneto plus Doom backing up Nova seems redundant. Unless Doom is on Missiles which aren't that great for Nova. This is one team where I would actually recommend Rocks assist Doom.

I'll test stuff out. I might like Magnus first since I enjoy overhead assist w/ Nova.

I think the only issue is that Nova doesn't do particularly well with EMD, so you will need Plasma Beam for doom. After that, it depends on whether you want to figure out Hyper Grav tricks with the team or just squeeze out a little extra damage with EMD.

Consider putting Magneto on anchor as well; DHC him in safely if Doom survives the incoming mix-up. Better DHCs that way, too.

What is EMD?
 
Ah, k.

And yeah :(

I cried. At least I have BoF4 on Vita.

Wish I had BoF3. :/
I woke up because the dogs were whining and let them out. Before going to sleep, I thought "I'll see if anything cool happened on GAF today". Ergh. Why make it a numbered entry?

And it looks like we have our Capcom All-Stars, too. Maybe Capcom hasn't been working on anything good at all for the last year...
 

Dahbomb

Member
Yea seems like Capcom has shifted a lot of their efforts to the mobile space. I guess that's what the Marvel team is doing right now, making a bunch of shitty mobile games.

Capcom turning into SE confirmed.
 
It's ok, Karst. Just like SE and the Third Birthday, you can always hope that fan demand will push it from a bad cellphone game to a terrible portable game!
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
So, at this point, are the Sengoku Basara, Dragon's Dogma, and Street Fighter fans the only ones that haven't been royally shit on by Capcom?
 
So, at this point, are the Sengoku Basara, Dragon's Dogma, and Street Fighter fans the only ones that haven't been royally shit on by Capcom?
I don't think Marvel fans have been royally shit on. Maybe a bit neglected, but nothing bad has happened to us. Unless you count shadow battles...

This is the ultimate corrupt-a-wish, along with Rockman Xover and Onimusha Soul.

I'm so dissapointed.
My face when I read the title of that thread...I wish I could have seen it.

Well, at least it isn't a surprise since we've known about it for ages.
I was confused because the original announcement said Q1 2013, I thought. It's no surprise when an iOS game is forgotten about after it released.

Gah. Yeah. I recall Sven saying commenting on the idea of a Capcom vs. Capcom fighter and that he had pitched the idea before, but nothing was happening on that front:
http://www.capcom-unity.com/ask_cap...-can-you-make-it-happen?post_num=15#522060031
Yeah, but who listens to the Capcom USA branch? They have good ideas...

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";74203971]It's ok, Karst. Just like SE and the Third Birthday, you can always hope that fan demand will push it from a bad cellphone game to a terrible portable game![/QUOTE]
It's really telling when the only thing I have to look forward to from Capcom is USFIV. They used to be a major developer in my library.
 

Dahbomb

Member
So, at this point, are the Sengoku Basara, Dragon's Dogma, and Street Fighter fans the only ones that haven't been royally shit on by Capcom?
I guess Monster Hunter fans too. They keep getting games with the same playstyle that they want and the games continue to sell.
 
I guess Monster Hunter fans too. They keep getting games with the same playstyle that they want and the games continue to sell.
Monster Hunter is kind of middle-of-the-road. Tons of reused assets with each game, a lot of shitty spin-offs, and even outsourcing the new MH Online game. The Monster Hunter Frontier G that just got announced for PS3/WiiU is a 360 port (the game has been out for like 2 years; I don't know why they are doing this now), and the game has a subscription model and is pay to win. You can literally buy temporary strength boosts, pay for better drop rates, and pay for powerful AI to help you kill monsters. Monster Hunter Tri also had a subscription model in Japan.

So while the core gameplay in the mainline series is still perfection, there's a lot of crap going on with that series. Keep in mind that MHT received absolutely no post-game support, so there's no reason for it to have a subscription model.
 

Tirael

Member
I guess Monster Hunter fans too. They keep getting games with the same playstyle that they want and the games continue to sell.
Every game in that series is slow, obtuse, has an extremely large barrier to entry and no plot to speak of. And MH3: Ultimate is the best game in the series and I'm addicted to it. They continue to improve the formula in slight but important ways every time.

Edit: Yeah Frontier G sounds bad.
 
Monster Hunter also has some of the worst controls and quest pacing in the history of video games. And the game's most popular minigame is watching loading screens. And the tutorial is like 20 hours long.
 
Every game in that series is slow, obtuse, has an extremely large barrier to entry and no plot to speak of. And MH3: Ultimate is the best game in the series and I'm addicted to it. They continue to improve the formula in slight but important ways every time.

Edit: Yeah Frontier G sounds bad.
I'm skeptical about the changes being made in MH4. We'll see.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";74223495]Monster Hunter also has some of the worst controls and quest pacing in the history of video games. And the game's most popular minigame is watching loading screens.[/QUOTE]
The controls are fine and so is the quest pacing. It's not bad just because you don't like some of the things it has. The 3DS is not well-built for the franchise. It really needs that second analog stick. On the Wii/WiiU, it's perfect.
 

Dahbomb

Member
I played MH on the PSP, progressed a fuck ton and then decided it was not for me. Every time I see there's a new MH it looks like the same old shit to me. MH is Capcom's Dynasty Warriors.

Compared to pretty much every Capcom game, MH feels slow and clunky as hell. It's like if I was actually fighting those monsters in real life I would perform better myself than the character I am controlling.
 
I played MH on the PSP, progressed a fuck ton and then decided it was not for me. Every time I see there's a new MH it looks like the same old shit to me. MH is Capcom's Dynasty Warriors.

Compared to pretty much every Capcom game, MH feels slow and clunky as hell. It's like if I was actually fighting those monsters in real life I would perform better myself than the character I am controlling.
The gameplay is inherently fun, like a Mario game. The combat is slow, but it's the difference between playing Street Fighter and playing Marvel. It's less about overwhelming stimuli and finger-mastery than it is about learning the depths of the game and making the right choices at the right time. I really appreciate the combat experience it offers.
 
The controls are fine and so is the quest pacing. It's not bad just because you don't like some of the things it has.

When it's a major problem that turns people away from the series every single time a new one releases, yes, it's bad.

"Why is the camera so terrible?"
"Why do I have to get goldenfish before fighting cool stuff?"

Every time a new game releases, people drop it because the controls are frustrating and they don't get to do anything cool before their patience wears out.

For new players, it's obvious the whole game is bewildering. It's only a good game if you already know what's going on before you start playing. There's like 3 control schemes for the goddamn menus. They spend half the beginning of the game pausing every other second to explain stuff, then half the features in the game are still unexplained. Some of the naming makes no sense, like Razor Sharp & Sharpness gems vs Sharpness +1 and Handicraft gems. I have no idea if Slime is an element or a status effect.

The Monster Hunter thread was filled with people that didn't even know if they were hurting the damn monsters. Tackles hit you when you're behind the monsters and not even touching them. Your own partner AIs hit you from behind off screen when you've got a clear shot on the monster. It took me forever to figure out why monsters were getting tired and slobbering themselves. There are key items to creating things that you can only get through god damn lotteries. Fucking Blossom Crickets and Long Fragments.

You ever try playing the game without a wiki or weapon trees or people to ask questions? How else would I know that a monster that fights underwater is weak to fire? Or that I'm spending 12 hours grinding a 2% drop to make a weapon that sucks? Or that the monster I'm fighting is too high rank to have the parts I need? The game is a drag without the community, and it's annoying with it.

Instead of improving the base combat of a near decade old game, they just keep adding gimmicks and reusing PS2-era stuff.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Mario games are fun because the controls are perfect and the level design is usually top notch. MH has garbage level design and clunky as fuck controls plus some really non intuitive mechanics. It was "resident sleeper" for me. Especially now that the Souls game basically do what MH does but better... they have taken the slow and methodical approach to big monster combat better IMO. Also Dragon's Dogma, now that's how you do combat in these types of game and it's from the same company.
 
Mario games are fun because the controls are perfect and the level design is usually top notch. MH has garbage level design and clunky as fuck controls plus some really non intuitive mechanics. It was "resident sleeper" for me. Especially now that the Souls game basically do what MH does but better... they have taken the slow and methodical approach to big monster combat better IMO. Also Dragon's Dogma, now that's how you do combat in these types of game and it's from the same company.
I borrowed Dragon's Dogma from my sister - I'll let you know what I think when I get around to playing it.

Souls games are not better than Monster Hunter games. You play Souls games for the levels, and you play Monster Hunter for the boss fights. Souls bosses are mediocre.
 

Dahbomb

Member
I am sorry but an aquatic monster being weak to fire is dumb as hell. Then again that's par for the course when it comes to MH.

I found MH bosses mediocre too.
 

Dahbomb

Member
If you think MH is better than Souls games then you will probably think DD is worse than MH as well. Or for that matter think DMC is worse than MH as well.
 
I am sorry but an aquatic monster being weak to fire is dumb as hell. Then again that's par for the course when it comes to MH.

I found MH bosses mediocre too.
Well, typically water is weak to electricity in games, but aquatic monsters in MH tend to use electricity as a tool. You can still live in an aquatic environment but be sensitive to heat.

Nova doesn't care. It covers his Dolphin kick dash better.
Cool.

If you think MH is better than Souls games then you will probably think DD is worse than MH as well. Or for that matter think DMC is worse than MH as well.
I didn't say MH is better than Souls. Read what I write. I really like both series.

Dragon's Dogma honestly looks like ass to me, but I'm going to try it because it gets so much praise on this website. It's rare that a game gets a lot of GAF praise but sucks. And you know I've never played a DMC game for more than 20 minutes.
 
It's fine to only like fast, twitch combat mechanics. That's your taste. But games that go in other directions aren't inherently bad. QTEs are bad because they involve no skill and minimal thought. I appreciate any combat system that involves a high degree of depth and skill. Aside from that, I don't have strong taste preferences aside from disliking artificial execution barriers. I encourage you to not frown on Monster Hunter, but appreciate it like a homosexual man might appreciate a beautiful woman.
 

Dahbomb

Member
You should've gotten the expansion version though. DD is definitely rough around the edges though no lie.

You should one day find the original DMC3 version and try to play it. On the SE version you can replicate that version if you enter the code to unlock all difficulties and start on Hard with Yellow orbs.

I don't frown on MH but it's just not for me. It has depth and it does require skill... but the depth and skill it requires is not inherently fun for me.
 
Ugh. Broad appeal is not inherently a virtue.

The camera is not terrible. People are terrible at controlling cameras. It has problems when you are under huge monsters, but otherwise it's fine. I control the camera while playing the game fluidly just fine. This is just another Kid Icarus scenario where most gamers have an opportunity to discover they are pure shit at videogames but instead complain and go back to crap games.
People have been complaining about the camera since the first game and your response is that they must be pure shit at games? Having to constantly spin the camera around while fighting a Duramboros in the middle of a bunch of trees because you can't even see your damn character is fine to you? Having to reset the arbitrary angle the camera locks itself to every time you jump out of the water is fine? Hell, anything with the camera underwater is annoying. And don't blame it on the 3ds, it's Capcom's fault for not trying to come up with a real solution.


MH3U doesn't have hitboxes that hit from behind that I've experienced.

Almost every time I roll through a monster when they wind up a tackle I get hit even though I've already moved past them. And I can't delay my roll to beat the active frames because I can't cancel all the way into recovery on my great sword. If I could block whenever I could roll it wouldn't be an issue.

I didn't see people posting widely about confusion over whether they hurt the monster at all.
It was happening every other page when the game dropped.


Yeah, it's fine. Monster armor sets tell you what the monster is weak to and strong to. I'm sorry you feel the gameplay is a grind - I find it a joy, and hunting the same monster a dozen times is really enjoyable because the gameplay is good. It's not good to focus on the carrot when playing a game. It's not worthwhile, ever.

I don't even change weapons or armor for any reason unless it's a straight upgrade. I don't bring hot and cold drinks either, they're annoying.

The combat is fantastic. I wouldn't want them to change a thing about it.

Making it feel like you're fighting a thinking Monster would be nice. In the first game Rathalos would chase you up and down cliff sides to protect its nest. Now it feels like there's no real connection between the monsters and location. Especially the terrible free hunt area. Goddamn that was a bad idea.

It would also be nice if the small monsters had something to do instead of being glorified obstacles and occasional combo breakers. Or if monsters fought each other. Or if crouching for stealth did anything practical. The game is super repetitive, moreso every new game. Even the fights are streamlined, every monster has one or two of the same attack, like nonsense shoulder charges. In MH1, Rathalos' feet had hitboxes so you couldn't stay between his legs and swing wildly like an asshole. You actually had to deliberately attack his head or wings or tail.
 

Dahbomb

Member
The hit boxes in MH are definitely absurd. Not in the "moves hit behind them" way but more like the area of effect is way larger than animated. This has never been a problem in a DMC game and it's generally not a problem in a Souls game either. Last action game I played where this was a problem was Darksiders 2 and that was against one boss whose one move had a ridiculous hit box (but easy to counter if you knew about it).
 
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