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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT4| Nothing Stops This Patch!

A

AnkiRendan

Member
Good games, Slasher. It's kind of funny. No matter how many times I lose to you, I can't be upset about it. Phoenix Wright representttttt!

I think I'm going to stay with this team. I'm still debating the order and I really need to learn combos with Felicia and Morrigan, but I think I'll enjoy it.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
So should me move forward now? I think we have stayed on system mechanics long enough.

I would honestly remove the whole command throw vs normal throw thing. It's a marginal change at best when taking about real match setting and you don't want people getting more confused over something like that.

This basically just leaves super jump assist and X factor time stalling. I haven't heard a great argument against either. I feel like if we give examples and explain these properly people can warm up to it. I know the super jump assist will get controversy because let's be honest.... all the Hidden Missile players love abusing this shit but not only that everyone playing against Hidden Missiles also abuses it. It's not something that is "earned" either way.
 
Z

Zissou

Member
Dahbomb said:
So should me move forward now? I think we have stayed on system mechanics long enough.

I would honestly remove the whole command throw vs normal throw thing. It's a marginal change at best when taking about real match setting and you don't want people getting more confused over something like that.

This basically just leaves super jump assist and X factor time stalling. I haven't heard a great argument against either. I feel like if we give examples and explain these properly people can warm up to it. I know the super jump assist will get controversy because let's be honest.... all the Hidden Missile players love abusing this shit but not only that everyone playing against Hidden Missiles also abuses it. It's not something that is "earned" either way.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I feel like examples illustrating why said changes are an improvement is the best way to come to a consensus. I'll think of counter examples and we can go back and forth a bit and hopefully get it figured out quickly.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Well I have the perfect example and it just happened at VxG:

http://youtu.be/ykTZLzeVwhk?t=10m20s

Wesker gets a combo on Dorm but has to reset at super jump height. His team does not get big TAC combos so a legitimate reset is needed to kill Dorm anyway. Now ChrisG probably dropped the combo and adjusted so it became a reset... either way ChrisG landed a throw on Dormammu but the throw was combo broken by a Hidden Missiles that was called instantly because FChamp was literally mashing on the assist while at SJ height.

This supremely marginalizes Wesker's reset game at this height when any reset he can do can get interrupted by a super jump assist. It also makes TACs much safer to perform (no matter what system we employ) because you aren't going to get tagged by a Missiles for successfully hitting a TAC which is essentially a reset. As if the game needed more reasons to marginalize use of proper resets, the whole assist calling during super jump recovery really hits the nail on the coffin on why you should never go for resets over TACs in the current game.
 
C

Clawww

Member
Dahbomb said:
Well I have the perfect example and it just happened at VxG:

http://youtu.be/ykTZLzeVwhk?t=10m20s

Wesker gets a combo on Dorm but has to reset at super jump height. His team does not get big TAC combos so a legitimate reset is needed to kill Dorm anyway. Now ChrisG probably dropped the combo and adjusted so it became a reset... either way ChrisG landed a throw on Dormammu but the throw was combo broken by a Hidden Missiles that was called instantly because FChamp was literally mashing on the assist while at SJ height.

This supremely marginalizes Wesker's reset game at this height when any reset he can do can get interrupted by a super jump assist. It also makes TACs much safer to perform (no matter what system we employ) because you aren't going to get tagged by a Missiles for successfully hitting a TAC which is essentially a reset. As if the game needed more reasons to marginalize use of proper resets, the whole assist calling during super jump recovery really hits the nail on the coffin on why you should never go for resets over TACs in the current game.
Click to expand...

agreed, one of the things I hate most about the game
 
K

Karsticles

Member
I don't care about the command grab change, personally. I think it would just make for irritating moments. If Frantic is fine with it, then all 4 of us agree to get rid of it, and it will be gone.

Zissou still needs to OK the other two categories he voted "N" on, though.
 
F

Frantic

Member
I'm cool with removing the command throw change. I didn't really get why it was there in the first place outside of like one or two situations that wouldn't really matter much.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Excellent. Now we just have to talk with Zissou about his concerns with X-Factor and Assist changes. All other system changes have been unanimously approved.
 
D

-Dazed

Neo Member
Took me a while to find, but I take it this is where the MarvelGAF matchmaking happens?

I play on East Coast XBL if any of you all ever want to play games. My connection isn't terrible and I'd like to think I'm okay. GT: Paralyzed Fist

edti: oh I also added myself to that spreadsheet thing
 
O

onionfrog

Member
XxSlasherMcGirkxX said:
To be fair you hardly got to play her. She kept getting happy birthday'd. I think once you practice with her she could be good for that team. She was pretty ace assist at the start at least. I definitely fear your Felicia/Hawkeye/Strider team the most though.
Click to expand...
Yeah, maybe I'll try a team with Storm again, once I've actually put some time in with her.
I don't know who to run on anchor for that team though. I love vajra, but storm gets nothing from it and storm + strider both want meter. Perhaps I'll try Felicia/Storm/Hawkeye or Felicia/Storm/Sentinel.

The whirlwind assist actually works pretty well for approaches and had the unexpected benefit of pushing wright away from Maya shield, which was really nice.

I didn't use it when we were playing, but I'm digging Jill/Dante/Arthur as an alt team. Even if my Dante is ass.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Zissou said:
I vote yes for x-factor changes. I'm still not convinced on assist changes.
Click to expand...
Well I don't know what other example I can give you. FChamp has been knocked out of his anti TAC reset by ChrisG as well. Then there's the example of FChamp using super jump recovery to spam Morrigan assist to get Phoenix to 5 bars.

Unless you are talking about the increased time to tech. It's 3 frames hardly a game changer. I can go either way on that, it's not going to fundamentally change the way the game is played, you still wouldn't be able to react to throws.
 
Z

Zissou

Member
Super-jump height resets are not necessary. You can do them, but there is no reason why you can't spike somebody back to the ground and go for a reset there. The current assist-call logic of the game makes sense to me- you can call assists, regardless of where you are, unless you yourself super jump. Otherwise, you can call assists as per normal assist call rules. If someone tries to reset you at superjump height, fuck them- allowing assists during this situation further discourages fake TAC resets, which is a good thing, even if we nerf TACs like we want to.

I've got to get to bed. I'll be back and respond to your stuff n 8 hours or so.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
First of all fake TAC resets is one of the best and smartest tactics in the game because it punishes mashers. Anything that punishes mashers is a great thing. If TACs weren't that powerful there would automatically be a decline in these type of resets..

Secondly the reason you want to do a super jump reset is that some characters have invincible moves or they have limited options at super jump. It is way safer for me to reset Spencer at SJ height than it is for me to spike him to the ground and risk eating a Bionic Arm. Or same thing for Haggar, he has option of Lariat on the ground. Besides we are already encouraging hard knockdown resets by preventing assist call during rolls so this option is always going to be a valid one.

Stuff like this is why super jump assists are so powerful. If you have Missiles you are automatically impervious to a group of resets thanks to system mechanics.
 
Z

Zissou

Member
Maybe I'm biased because of my team. My resets involve cross-unders/fake cross-unders using vajra assist. Since my point character is near the ground, I can find ways to blow up assist mashing and still get a good 50/50 reset.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Zissou said:
Maybe I'm biased because of my team. My resets involve cross-unders/fake cross-unders using vajra assist. Since my point character is near the ground, I can find ways to blow up assist mashing and still get a good 50/50 reset.
Click to expand...
I'll give you an example using my own team for why this is problematic:

Firebrand can do Magneto-esque resets, and they look like this on my team:
c.LMHS, sj.H, d.H, qcb.L, s.H + call Dark Hole, c.H, qcf.L, s.H, c.H, s.S, sj.MMH, qcf.S, dash back, s.S

Now this is where the reset comes in. This is a very high HSD moment, especially since Dark Hole causes huge HSD as far as I can tell. I will do one of five things to reset my opponent here if I decide to:
1) j.H, TAC up
2) j.H, TAC down
3) j.H, TAC left/right
4) j.L, j.H; opponent recovers from j.L and gets hit by j.H, Magneto-style.
5) j.H, qcb.L (return to ground); opponent whiffs a j.H/j.S trying to counter 1-4, superjump and air throw (untechable).

If my opponent is using an anti-air, 4 and 5 do not work, so I'm just stuck playing a TAC guessing game. So yes, superjump height resets are important. They are Firebrand's best resets outside of unblockables.
 
F

Frantic

Member
Don't both "Assists depart with invulnerability frames if the point character is hit before the assist appears on the screen" and "Assists cannot be called during recovery frames or rolls" hinder super jump height resets anyways? Can't mash during air tech recovery, end up getting hit/scooped before assist comes out, assist then leaves the screen.

Also, with the TAC changes, super jump height resets are a lot less potent, aren't they?
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Zissou said:
Maybe I'm biased because of my team. My resets involve cross-unders/fake cross-unders using vajra assist. Since my point character is near the ground, I can find ways to blow up assist mashing and still get a good 50/50 reset.
Click to expand...
Next time mash Vajra when you are at super jump height being comboed. Someone will drop their combo sometime and will eventually get clipped by Vajra putting you back in the driver's seat.

Don't both "Assists depart with invulnerability frames if the point character is hit before the assist appears on the screen" and "Assists cannot be called during recovery frames or rolls" hinder super jump height resets anyways? Can't mash during air tech recovery, end up getting hit/scooped before assist comes out, assist then leaves the screen.
Click to expand...
The second part ONLY applies to Rolls on the ground not recovery overall. It probably needs more clarification.

The first part you have a point although if you are mashing the assist can still come out before the point character gets hit/scooped, breaking the combo/reset. That whole mechanic was put in to avoid incessant happy birthdays. Also that still doesn't prevent "get hit by Hidden Missiles at super jump height, recover, call assist at super jump height like Morrigan to build meter safely".

Also, with the TAC changes, super jump height resets are a lot less potent, aren't they?
Click to expand...
That depends on which TAC change gets adopted. If it's the current one just with HSD fixed, super jump reset would still be very valuable. For air dash characters super jump resets are still fairly valuable as you get a good 3 way mix up going up there. It's also where someone like Thor gets very good resets from.
 
C

ccbfan

Member
Finally got this game for the PS3.

I've been playing some of the characters and I'm really liking Hawkeye (Not surprising since I played Cable in MVC2 and Axl in GG games) and Virgil (Love how easy it is to activate combos).

Can't decide a third though. I played Sent/Cable/Commando, Sent/Cable/Cyc, and Spiral/Cable/Sent in MVC2 so maybe something like those teams? I feel like I need a battery since Hawkeye and Virgil seem like such meter eaters.

Any suggestions?
 
M

MiniBossBattle

Member
Why does Royal Flush use V.Joe as anchor?! I thought the best order would be V.Joe, Thor (beam), Modok (shield). Zone and build meter with a nice DHC grab threat.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
ccbfan said:
Finally got this game for the PS3.

I've been playing some of the characters and I'm really liking Hawkeye (Not surprising since I played Cable in MVC2 and Axl in GG games) and Virgil (Love how easy it is to activate combos).

Can't decide a third though. I played Sent/Cable/Commando, Sent/Cable/Cyc, and Spiral/Cable/Sent in MVC2 so maybe something like those teams? I feel like I need a battery since Hawkeye and Virgil seem like such meter eaters.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Hawkeye + Vergil are definitely very good together. Hawkeye + Vergil are sort of like the Cable + Spiral of the game (only in that Hawkeye is a full screen zoner and Spiral locks opponents down). The closest to a Commando assist in this game is Dante's Jam Session but on that team it's kinda meh (usable but probably not recommended). You can definitely try out Zero on point, I mean this would basically become the EVO Champion's team. Otherwise you can try out Strider or Magneto both of who would be great for the team... I personally would recommend Strider anchor.

You don't need dedicated batteries in this game unless you play a Phoenix team. If you really must then Zero is probably the best in the game in terms of killing without much meter requirement.
 
V

Vice

Member
MiniBossBattle said:
Why does Royal Flush use V.Joe as anchor?! I thought the best order would be V.Joe, Thor (beam), Modok (shield). Zone and build meter with a nice DHC grab threat.
Click to expand...

Flush wants to play his way. if he was concerned about playing an optimized team his team would be much different.
 
T

Tirael

Member
Is it just me or does it seem like more people are newly adopting the game recently? Probably had something to do with Evo. Glad to see the Mahvel hype is still running strong.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Kamisamaa said:
Is it just me or does it seem like more people are newly adopting the game recently? Probably had something to do with Evo. Glad to see the Mahvel hype is still running strong.
Click to expand...
It's not just this game; people are picking up lots of fighting games. Last night at my locals, two more people decided to pick up Skullgirls after watching 4 people play for 3 hours. The thing is that big flashy stuff gets people to start playing videogames, but if they're really gamers at heart, they start to long for mechanically deep stuff. It's just natural that fighting games get picked up more as time goes on, especially as the big pretty graphics this generation brought in wear off on some people.
 
L

Leetirl

Neo Member
Kamisamaa said:
Is it just me or does it seem like more people are newly adopting the game recently? Probably had something to do with Evo. Glad to see the Mahvel hype is still running strong.
Click to expand...

After seeing Capcom's list of releases, I'm definitely scared for the future of Marvel, and really all of their fighting franchises.
 
T

Tirael

Member
Leetirl said:
After seeing Capcom's list of releases, I'm definitely scared for the future of Marvel, and really all of their fighting franchises.
Click to expand...
Why would they be worried if other games tank in sales? If something isn't profitable, they can just churn out another version of Street Fighter with their dedicated SF team and make it all back. It would hurt the franchises themselves more than anything.
 
L

Leetirl

Neo Member
Kamisamaa said:
Why would they be worried if other games tank in sales? If something isn't profitable, they can just churn out another version of Street Fighter with their dedicated SF team and make it all back. It would hurt the franchises themselves more than anything.
Click to expand...

That's assuming these games do tank, in fact I think that's the BEST case scenario. If these games do absurdly well we're gonna get Ultimate Chibi Marvel Mobile Attack Brigade only on IOS/Android forever :(
 
T

Tirael

Member
Leetirl said:
That's assuming these games do tank, in fact I think that's the BEST case scenario. If these games do absurdly well we're gonna get Ultimate Chibi Marvel Mobile Attack Brigade only on IOS/Android forever :(
Click to expand...
Oh, I totally see what you're saying. If this format does well, since it was done with one of their big franchises on a numbered release, other franchises might suffer the same fate. And MvC would likely be shown even less love. That would be terrible.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
I feel bad for anyone just getting into UMVC3. Shit is daunting as fuck. I just started Skullgirls and that game only has 9 characters, it is still overwhelming as hell. I can't imagine the feeling when someone plays UMVC3 for the first time.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Dahbomb said:
I feel bad for anyone just getting into UMVC3. Shit is daunting as fuck. I just started Skullgirls and that game only has 9 characters, it is still overwhelming as hell. I can't imagine the feeling when someone plays UMVC3 for the first time.
Click to expand...
I remember that first week or two of UMvC3. I just called Sentinel Force and spammed Hadoken, and I won like 90% of my matches. If Ryu died, I spammed Dark Hole instead. Then XF3 Sentinel came in...
 
T

Tirael

Member
Dahbomb said:
I feel bad for anyone just getting into UMVC3. Shit is daunting as fuck. I just started Skullgirls and that game only has 9 characters, it is still overwhelming as hell. I can't imagine the feeling when someone plays UMVC3 for the first time.
Click to expand...
Haha, you and Karst are totally right. It doesn't help that the game looks like an LSD-induced fever dream.
 
F

FSLink

Banned
Karsticles said:
I remember that first week or two of UMvC3. I just called Sentinel Force and spammed Hadoken, and I won like 90% of my matches. If Ryu died, I spammed Dark Hole instead. Then XF3 Sentinel came in...
Click to expand...

I used Phoenix Wright and got him in Turnabout right away since nobody knew how to kill him fast yet.
Then I'd tag in Hawkeye and zone with the invincible assist. I was a jerk.
 
O

onionfrog

Member
Karsticles said:
I remember that first week or two of UMvC3. I just called Sentinel Force and spammed Hadoken, and I won like 90% of my matches. If Ryu died, I spammed Dark Hole instead. Then XF3 Sentinel came in...
Click to expand...
Iron fist/Hawkeye/Dr. Strange.
I was dominating people at the midnight release of UMVC3 after studying SRK's best guess movelists for the new characters. lol

And if all else failed, spell of vishanti XF spell of vishanti!
 
X

XxSlasherMcGirkxX

Member
Dahbomb said:
I feel bad for anyone just getting into UMVC3. Shit is daunting as fuck. I just started Skullgirls and that game only has 9 characters, it is still overwhelming as hell. I can't imagine the feeling when someone plays UMVC3 for the first time.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of people would be surprised at how many people play at a scrub level and are contempt with that. Or even only playing single player.
 
Z

Zissou

Member
Karsticles said:
I'll give you an example using my own team for why this is problematic:

Firebrand can do Magneto-esque resets, and they look like this on my team:
c.LMHS, sj.H, d.H, qcb.L, s.H + call Dark Hole, c.H, qcf.L, s.H, c.H, s.S, sj.MMH, qcf.S, dash back, s.S

Now this is where the reset comes in. This is a very high HSD moment, especially since Dark Hole causes huge HSD as far as I can tell. I will do one of five things to reset my opponent here if I decide to:
1) j.H, TAC up
2) j.H, TAC down
3) j.H, TAC left/right
4) j.L, j.H; opponent recovers from j.L and gets hit by j.H, Magneto-style.
5) j.H, qcb.L (return to ground); opponent whiffs a j.H/j.S trying to counter 1-4, superjump and air throw (untechable).

If my opponent is using an anti-air, 4 and 5 do not work, so I'm just stuck playing a TAC guessing game. So yes, superjump height resets are important. They are Firebrand's best resets outside of unblockables.
Click to expand...

Dahbomb said:
Next time mash Vajra when you are at super jump height being comboed. Someone will drop their combo sometime and will eventually get clipped by Vajra putting you back in the driver's seat.


The second part ONLY applies to Rolls on the ground not recovery overall. It probably needs more clarification.

The first part you have a point although if you are mashing the assist can still come out before the point character gets hit/scooped, breaking the combo/reset. That whole mechanic was put in to avoid incessant happy birthdays. Also that still doesn't prevent "get hit by Hidden Missiles at super jump height, recover, call assist at super jump height like Morrigan to build meter safely".


That depends on which TAC change gets adopted. If it's the current one just with HSD fixed, super jump reset would still be very valuable. For air dash characters super jump resets are still fairly valuable as you get a good 3 way mix up going up there. It's also where someone like Thor gets very good resets from.
Click to expand...

Somebody getting punished when they drop a combo is kind of par for the course in this game, no? In a match-up where my opponent has one of a handful of anti-air assists, I can't do certain super jump height resets and instead have to use other resets I've devised. This is just the opposite of someone using lariat assist now, and forcing me to do super jump height resets to avoid defensive lariat assists calls. In other match-ups where my opponent has threatening invincible reversals that are available on the ground only, I have to go for aerial resets of some kind. Getting rid of ways to deal with specific types of resets just encourages players to be lazy and thoughtlessly use the same reset in every situation. For example, in the ChrisG vs. FChamp video linked by Dahbomb, Wesker goes for a superjump height throw reset against Dormammu+missiles and this is cited as problematic and something that needs to be patched out. Why did ChrisG do that in the first place? Wesker has other reset options and ChrisG did the one that got blown up my missiles mashing- that's not a problem with the game, he just made a bad decision.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Zissou said:
Somebody getting punished when they drop a combo is kind of par for the course in this game, no? In a match-up where my opponent has one of a handful of anti-air assists, I can't do certain super jump height resets and instead have to use other resets I've devised. This is just the opposite of someone using lariat assist now, and forcing me to do super jump height resets to avoid defensive lariat assists calls. In other match-ups where my opponent has threatening invincible reversals that are available on the ground only, I have to go for aerial resets of some kind. Getting rid of ways to deal with specific types of resets just encourages players to be lazy and thoughtlessly use the same reset in every situation. For example, in the ChrisG vs. FChamp video linked by Dahbomb, Wesker goes for a superjump height throw reset against Dormammu+missiles and this is cited as problematic and something that needs to be patched out. Why did ChrisG do that in the first place? Wesker has other reset options and ChrisG did the one that got blown up my missiles mashing- that's not a problem with the game, he just made a bad decision.
Click to expand...
Resets that actually favor your opponent's position are not combo drops.
 
Z

Zissou

Member
Karsticles said:
Resets are bad decisions?
Click to expand...

Doing certain resets in certain match-ups can be bad decisions. Technology marches on. TAC infinites are discovered and people quickly realize they're better than traditional resets (in a mathematical risk/reward sense). People mash to counter TACs. People come up with anti-TAC-counter-mash tech (spam missiles or whatever AA assist while being hit with a combo). Given time, people will figure out ways to punish assist mashing or people will stop doing fake TAC resets (and other similar super jump height resets) and use different resets against teams with anti-air assists. Either way, life will go on. Some of this will change if TACs are patched like we want them to be. Certain resets don't work well in certain match-ups. Why is this something that must be patched?
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Zissou said:
Doing certain resets in certain match-ups can be bad decisions. Technology marches on. TAC infinites are discovered and people quickly realize they're better than traditional resets (in a mathematical risk/reward sense). People mash to counter TACs. People come up with anti-TAC-counter-mash tech (spam missiles or whatever AA assist while being hit with a combo). Given time, people will figure out ways to punish assist mashing or people will stop doing fake TAC resets (and other similar super jump height resets) and use different resets against teams with anti-air assists. Either way, life will go on. Some of this will change if TACs are patched like we want them to be. Certain resets don't work well in certain match-ups. Why is this something that must be patched?
Click to expand...
No, there is no way for me to punish someone who makes a Hidden Missiles call and forward techs in the air. Dr. Doom is now behind me. I don't have backwards attacks.

And I also gave you the Purification example. Why am I punished for using my best move in an appropriate situation?
 
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