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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT4| Nothing Stops This Patch!

Zissou

Member
I vote yes on the current versions of the Ammy and Akuma changes.

On RR- I was trying to use team FChamp (Mags/Dorm/Doom) and upon realizing my Dorm was terrible, I switched to Mags/RR/Doom and tried to play it similarly to the Dorm team, i.e., start with Magneto, get control of the match and build a bar, and then DHC Raccoon in safely (shockwave into mad hopper). It was working much better than any time I had tried to use RR point in the past. Coming in with momentum and being able to immediately threaten with teleport mix-ups via EMD while they're still being forced to block shockwave was fantastic. I still don't know what assists are best for this set up though. I can do log trap or spitfire for RR and they both seem good in their own ways. Doom missiles are nice for Magneto, but if things don't go according to plan and Mags dies early, RR+missiles is kind of bad.
 
Log Trap and Plasma Beam. Always. And use Attraction to pull people into the log hitbox.

Learn resets with Magneto, you want extra bar to DHC to Mad Hopper after you get a kill so you can tag magneto back in for an unblockable.

Anybody have some advise against Hulk players (offline)? I feel like I'm completely free to Hulk, I'd rather fight 3 XF3 Vergil's than 1 competent Hulk with good assists.

Down back a lot and don't attack unless under the cover of assists until you learn the matchup.
 
The following characters are left to be agreed upon:
Captain America
Chris
Chun-li
C. Viper
Doom

The other 5 have reached consensus.

I'd like for people to respond to my arguments regarding these 5 characters and the suggested changes.

I have worked at other med labs in High School as well as part of an internship thing. They don't expect you to do any heavy work obviously, just some basic pipette stuff, dish cloning and growing bacteria colonies. In particular I grew various E.Coli strains. Plus I also did some observer-ship with a Urologist. I got $2000 out of 2 months work.

Nowadays I work in a family clinic as an actual MD although still working on my Step 3 during weekdays. It's a fairly low stress job so in between patients I just view GAF on my phone.

As far as retail goes I only worked at my local movie theater behind the cashier. It was a very short gig and I didn't run into any crazies. I wanted to work at Gamestop during this time and I never got hired. I don't know what type of people they want for the job because I honestly was over qualified for that job compared to the people they actually hire.
A lot of places don't want to hire overqualified people because they will leave. It's the main reason I've had trouble getting a job.
 

FSLink

Banned
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";75296503]
Down back a lot and don't attack unless under the cover of assists until you learn the matchup.[/QUOTE]
Well yeah, but then I get command grabbed. I know not to attack or call out assists recklessly.
 
tumblr_mj3xsr9mof1qlmt8uo3.jpg
 

shaowebb

Member
The following characters are left to be agreed upon:
Captain America
Chris
Chun-li
C. Viper
Doom

The other 5 have reached consensus.

I'd like for people to respond to my arguments regarding these 5 characters and the suggested changes.
Dont know a lot, but from the time I spent playing Chun I can say I didn't like the kicks scaling so much and I didn't like her options off her OTG even if they were fun. She could at least use a hyper for the OTG so she can finish strong with it.

Also Doom's Divekick too crazy.

A lot of places don't want to hire overqualified people because they will leave. It's the main reason I've had trouble getting a job.
At least its not what I face in the animation industry. In the game industry alone over 213+ studios went under in the past 3 years sending thousands of veterans with shipped title experience into the market. Its so oversaturated that even taking top students is considered risky with no shipped titles and most studios are telling folks they dont make longterm plans...they go game to game and studio size adjusts based on each in a lot of cases.

Its kind of disgusting but many say they will let you work for them but only if you agree to work for FREE until the game ships just so you can get professional studio shipped title experience. They consider that the payment. They offer no promise to keep you and say its to help you. That includes at some places crunch time so bad I've heard dudes sleeping at their cubicle with sleeping bags for a week at a time to meet launch.

My field is scary as balls. Im having to finish my last 10 courses of my industrial technology degree to safety net my bills and future in the game industry. Idea is to go back into a plant like before and get the 60-90k income I was slated for before I changed careers. So long as I get one of the Auto CAD positions they want me for with the Computer Science/Industrial Technology degree it'll let me work normal 9-5 shifts instead of 12 hr swing shifts+overtime for that money.

With normal hours and that kind of pay I can contract out folks to help me develop in the indies indefinitely till I can fully make the switch into the field permanently in a studio somewhere and all while meeting bills.

Economy sucks balls. Game industry especially...I need a second career just to attempt the first one :C
 

Dahbomb

Member
Game industry is definitely in a rough spot. I think it's profitable now if you can make your own game or do it with a small team who know their shit. Even then it's a bit of a crap shoot. Trying to get a job in a bigger studio is just too risky and the really big ones are in fact laying off more people than hiring.

Things will improve in 2014 with the new consoles but it's still not a stable field.
 
The games industry is always hiring for good jobs. But you have to be the best.

One of the Lead Environment Artists at Naughty Dog never went to college and never had prior experience. But he can program games by himself, he can do the art by himself and he built a level for Uncharted 2 in like a day during crunch time. And I don't think anybody complained about the environment art in Uncharted 2.

I got some of the best portfolio advice ever from him. Only two pieces, spend a year on each. If you want a job, just start doing the job.
 
curious, did you guys ever mention fixing the throw range?

Kinda stupid that shuma and x-23 can be grabbed out of their air moves (x-23 talon attacks and shuma mystic smash)
 
I think that's a problem with those specific moves rather than throw range.

Actually you're right. I think its that certain move's hurtbox are so large that they can be thrown out even during the active frames.

I have had players throw me out of talon strike (the divekick x-23 special move).
 

Sigmaah

Member
Yo

I'm loving the hell outta Dante/Hawkeye/Vergil and if I need to, I can play HawkMayCry. Hawkeye with Jam and Rapid is damn good.
 

Dahbomb

Member
curious, did you guys ever mention fixing the throw range?

Kinda stupid that shuma and x-23 can be grabbed out of their air moves (x-23 talon attacks and shuma mystic smash)
It's hard to visualize throw ranges in the game so we left that mostly untouched. We did list some stuff that were weird like Mystic Smash needing a better hitbox.
 

shaowebb

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";75310935] If you want a job, just start doing the job.[/QUOTE]

The hell you think I've done this past year? I've worked on 3 seperate indie studios and did all the concepts and models along with half the game design at one, I'm coding my own stuff now and working on it, and I have done the graphic work for a business. It aint paying the bills bro. Take my advice when I say its hard, because I'm actually doing this shit.
 
First job/year in the games industry most of the time; hard to get it, suffer for the year, get that first title shipped. After that, you establish networks/friends, find new gigs through word of mouth which filters out the crazies (they also get referral bonuses).

Stay humble, stay hungry, give credit to your co-workers. Taking all the credit, passing on the blame, not asking for help and not acknowledging you suck in your first job is a great way to burn out or not last long. There were a lot more talented people than me but just didn't like being critiqued or judged on their work. I have been in the industry for a decade now.
 

Leetirl

Neo Member
As far as retail goes I only worked at my local movie theater behind the cashier. It was a very short gig and I didn't run into any crazies. I wanted to work at Gamestop during this time and I never got hired. I don't know what type of people they want for the job because I honestly was over qualified for that job compared to the people they actually hire.

I worked at Gamestop for about 6 months during my senior year of high school. It was a complete shit job. Minimum wage, 30 minutes for lunch, no benefits, and constantly pushing for subscriptions and reserves. Thinking back on it now, I'd rather work at a call center.
 

Ghazi

Member
I worked at Gamestop for about 6 months during my senior year of high school. It was a complete shit job. Minimum wage, 30 minutes for lunch, no benefits, and constantly pushing for subscriptions and reserves. Thinking back on it now, I'd rather work at a call center.

image.php
 
The hell you think I've done this past year? I've worked on 3 seperate indie studios and did all the concepts and models along with half the game design at one, I'm coding my own stuff now and working on it, and I have done the graphic work for a business. It aint paying the bills bro. Take my advice when I say its hard, because I'm actually doing this shit.

I wasn't directing that at you or making any sort of judgement. I was just sharing the advice I got openly.

Nobody said it wasn't hard.

I've talked with people who'd show up at 6am because daily meetings were cutting out all their drawing time, who had to watch programmers leave early when the game was shit but had to stay all night every day because they were artists. I know people who were so turned off by the management at Zynga and EA that they left the industry forever. I know people who said a whole group of excellent artists was set up just to work on cover art for a month, but all the compositional judgments were made by marketing teams. I know a guy who was expected to come up with a hundred illustrations of fucking trees within hours for a meeting.
 
Well yeah, but then I get command grabbed. I know not to attack or call out assists recklessly.

you're a smart player, i think you'll figure it out with one of your 92374629874632 teams.
personally, i tag in taskmaster because he's the only guy on my team with multi-hitting normals to deal with armor. lots of chicken blocking and keep away, and jump H. maybe tag in a character with rapid fire normals? i know you can get in on armor attacks with spencer with j.L x 2.
 

FSLink

Banned
you're a smart player, i think you'll figure it out with one of your 92374629874632 teams.
personally, i tag in taskmaster because he's the only guy on my team with multi-hitting normals to deal with armor. lots of chicken blocking and keep away, and jump H. maybe tag in a character with rapid fire normals? i know you can get in on armor attacks with spencer with j.L x 2.

Yeah I had the most success with Zero May Cry but if Hulk gets in somehow, Zero dies and Dante/Vergil have to eat a incoming mixup with Hulk + Haggar, lol.

I should give Taskmaster a try, now that you mentioned it....maybe team him up with Dr. Strange Eye assist. Or I could do Bolts + Coldstar along with Tasky. :0
 
Yeah I had the most success with Zero May Cry but if Hulk gets in somehow, Zero dies and Dante/Vergil have to eat a incoming mixup with Hulk + Haggar, lol.

I should give Taskmaster a try, now that you mentioned it....maybe team him up with Dr. Strange Eye assist. Or I could do Bolts + Coldstar along with Tasky. :0

You should try playing racketpunch from here. He plays a really solid, aggressive taskmaster.

I prefer to run away and/or play footsies (same with my akuma, i got inspired by justin wong this past evo to go back to him), and if that doesnt work, yolo shield skills.
 

Ghazi

Member
If he really uses Morrigan/Storm/Doom, then ChrisG is right, and that is a better team than the Magneto setup. Storm + two aerial hyper characters gives you a lot of flexibility, and ChrisG always has more meter than he knows what to do with.

I was kidding; he, of course, did well with the team.
 
There's a new Hawkeye combo tutorial on SRK. Shocking how little people understand how to build BnBs with this character. The teams are all screwed up, and it's half an hour with no fullscreen combos.

Hawkeye/Dante/Strider? That team is garbage. And that's the only one that seemed like the guy was making a real team, not combo video crap. Why bother going through all the character stuff if you're not gonna tell people how to make a real team with him?
 

Dahbomb

Member
You should send the guy your tips, strats and combos. Maybe he will make a video about Hawkeye/Vergil/Strider. Do so in a respectful manner.

It's good that there are tutorials but you can't expect tutorial makers to know everything. The community should provide feedback on how to improve these tutorials and fill in gaps.
 

Zissou

Member
I'm thinking of going (and getting bodied) at a tourney later this month. I've never been to a tournament before, so I'm nervous as hell. If you win, you get flight and lodging to Shadowloo Showdown in October. Site's here: http://mixupnight.info/archives/502

Curious if any of you guys know some of the more obscure players who have signed up. So far in the UMvC3 player list there are:

RF(本戦参加)-Task/Doom/Vergil or Morridoom/Vergil
BzGaGa(本戦参加)
えむまき (Emumaki)(本戦参加)-Nova/Doom/Vergil
けいん(Kein)(本戦参加)
かつあき (Katsuaki)(本戦参加)
バンババン (Banbaban)(本戦参加)
ABEGEN(本戦参加)-Tron/Thor/She-hulk
MY(本戦参加)
わたも (Watamo)(本戦参加)
まぶしん (Mabushin)(本戦参加)-Vergil/Doom/Strider
vairos(未定) -Frank/Skrull/Haggar
ボンチュー (Bonchuu)(本戦参加)-Shuma/Nova/Ironman
Mamespider(未定)-Spider-man/Doom/RR(spitfire) or Spider-man/Doom/Vergil

Some I can't find any footage of on youtube or anything. Can anybody fill in any blanks for what teams some of these guys play? Thankfully, there's recent footage of quite a few of them on the broken tier youtube channel.
 
I'm thinking of going (and getting bodied) at a tourney later this month. I've never been to a tournament before, so I'm nervous as hell. If you win, you get flight and lodging to Shadowloo Showdown in October. Site's here: http://mixupnight.info/archives/502

Curious if any of you guys know some of the more obscure players who have signed up. So far in the UMvC3 player list there are:

RF(本戦参加)-Task/Doom/Vergil or Morridoom/Vergil
BzGaGa(本戦参加)
えむまき (Emumaki)(本戦参加)-Nova/Doom/Vergil
けいん(Kein)(本戦参加)
かつあき (Katsuaki)(本戦参加)
バンババン (Banbaban)(本戦参加)
ABEGEN(本戦参加)-Tron/Thor/She-hulk
MY(本戦参加)
わたも (Watamo)(本戦参加)
まぶしん (Mabushin)(本戦参加)-Vergil/Doom/Strider
vairos(未定) -Frank/Skrull/Haggar
ボンチュー (Bonchuu)(本戦参加)-Shuma/Nova/Ironman
Mamespider(未定)-Spider-man/Doom/RR(spitfire) or Spider-man/Doom/Vergil

Some I can't find any footage of on youtube or anything. Can anybody fill in any blanks for what teams some of these guys play? Thankfully, there's recent footage of quite a few of them on the broken tier youtube channel.
Mamespider and Abegen are well known. You absolutely need to do research on both of them because they have very uncommon setups and resets.

Don't be nervous about the tournament. Go to learn and have an experience playing, not to win. You won't win.
 

Zissou

Member
Mamespider and Abegen are well known. You absolutely need to do research on both of them because they have very uncommon setups and resets.

Don't be nervous about the tournament. Go to learn and have an experience playing, not to win. You won't win.

I was surprised that recent footage of Mamespider showed him using raccoon anchor instead of Vergil (though he switched back to Vergil when he started getting bodied). I've seen a good amount of Abegen footage too. I'm more scared of the complete unknowns where there's not a second of footage on youtube to check out beforehand. I fully expect to lose- I don't know if I'll even get a match off of anybody since there aren't really any pot monsters attending (from what I can tell).
 

Azure J

Member
I'm happy that you enjoy using the most brainless move in the game.

EDIT: I'm gonna not post on GAF until morning so I don't post something I'm going to regret.

Just grab him/chicken block-punish/put out a button when he's not deep into it. At this point in UMVC3, that move is as fair as it gets. :lol
 

Azn_Boy

Neo Member
I wouldn't even stick a button out against it, it's not worth the risk of getting hit. Just back up after a helm breaker because you know a hammer is going to come.
 
Zissou and Frantic, I need your opinions on all of this so we can get moving:
Grievances said:
Character grievances:

Akuma:

God's Beard: +Raging Demon now does 900,000 damage. This is obscene. There's no legitimate reason for Akuma to have this.

Zissou : Raging Demon damage

Dahbomb: Raging Demon damage

Frantic: Raging Demon damage

Total Grievances: Raging Demon x4 otherwise no issues with the character


Amaterasu:

Karsticles: maybe Divine Instruments should cause a crumple state?; Thunder Edge +1 on block should read Thunder Edge L; should we let her air dash backward like the change we made to Chun-li?

Zissou: not sure about allowing meter building during veil of mist. DHCing slow super into something like astral vision could get absurd. You can already be juggled for 50% life by soul fists, and mixing in soul drains (which might work during veil of mist) things could get out of hand.

Total Grievances: Issue of allowing her to combo into LVL3, allowing air dash backward and allowing meter gain during Veil of Mist for team partners


Captain America:

Dahbomb: Carthweel change

Karsticles: Cartwheel change

Total Grievances: Only an issue on the Cartwheel, everyone agrees with the rest


Chris

Dahbomb: Overhead and M/H Grenades grievances

Zissou: I don't think the prone position change is necessary. It's already an effective move in some situations and is difficult for certain characters to deal with.

Total Grievances: Overhead, M/H grenade and Prone position issue


C Viper:

God's Beard: -EX moves can no longer be canceled into one another. What's the problem with this? She spends a bar to cancel thunder knuckle. Big deal.

Karsticles: Her level 3 needs to cause a post-hyper crumple state to be brought in line with other level 3s

Frantic: Her normals could use a slight damage scaling reduction as well. From 20 to 15 at least. She uses normals more in her combos than her specials, so reducing the specials won't do a whole lot to her overall damage.

Zissou: not sure about taking away cancelling ex moves into each other. Like others have said, you can make bionic arm safe by spending a bar for the DHC, so what's the difference? I'd rather her scaling be further nerfed- even reducing special max scaling from 30% to 20% her damage is still really high.

Dahbomb: EX cancelling into EX moves should not be taken out

Total Grievances: EX cancel into EX issue, LVL3 being comboable and scaling on normals/specials still not low enough


Chun Li:

Zissou: not sure why she needs her cr.L to hit low. Her up close game is already really fast and difficult to block and cr.M hits low and is only two frames slower than her cr.L anyway.

Karsticles: "Shichisei Ranka now air OK" - this needs another change, I think; all of our level 3s are either being given utility or post-combo follow-up. This should cause a crumple state; EX Spinning Bird Kick should probably be a little less safe on block - I vote that we change it back to -6 but make it hyper cancelable; I don't see the point of Spinning Bird Kick negating pushblock

Total Grievances: Cr.L hits low, EX SBK, SBK push block negation and LVL3 issues.


Dante:

Dahbomb: Against Hammer buff

Frantic: Although I could live without the Hammer buff if it comes to that.

Total Grievances: Only a Hammer issue, otherwise no problems with the character


Dr. Doom:

Karsticles: I am against the j.S nerfs.

Zissou: I still think footdive is fine and I don't understand why molecular shield assist is being changed from the M to the H version. What was the explanation on that?

Frantic: I'm kinda on the agreement that j.S is fine as is.

Total Grievances: Foot Dive controversy and explanation for Molecular Shield change


Karsticles said:
Thanks for that awesome list, Dahbomb. My thoughts:

Akuma:
OK, let's just give it an OTG follow-up. I'll add that in since it seems popular.

Amaterasu:
Zissou mentions the Soul Drain issue, and that's exactly why I want this change. Right now, if Amaterasu DHCs to Morrigan, Soul Drain doesn't steal meter. It still removes meter from the opponent, but Morrigan doesn't get it. At the very least, I think Soul Drain should function. There may be concerns that this would be too good, but Morrigan already has long Soul Drain combos with the right team:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNN1aCcQ4WY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2I_B7rSK4E

I'm only posting those two, but Morrigan can get 6-8 Soul Drains with a lot of teammates. With two assists like Cold Star and Log Trap, she can activate Astral Vision mid combo AND chain 4 Soul Drains together. With Dante, she can chain 4-6 Soul Drains together. So, I don't think this is a big deal. If people are uncomfortable with meter gain in general, then at least let me change it to say that Soul Drain still functions, because that basically is an oversight.

I'll drop the air dash change.

I assume no one is opposed to the Thunder Edge change because it's just an issue of clarification.

Captain America:
I actually put the Cartwheel note as a courtesy to you, Dahbomb. I'd like a strong argument that this needs a particular change, and you do need to convince Zissou and Frantic as well.

Chris:
Most keepaway characters have some way to open you up. Morrigan has scary as hell mix-ups, Arthur has scary mix-ups, Hawkeye has mix-ups, etc. Chris is the only keepaway character in the game without a mix-up option. I think a standing overhead at 24 frames is fair for him.

What are the grenade issues, exactly?

I think the Prone Position change has limited use. It's only hyper cancelable. However, that has an important use in some matchups. For example, if you Prone Position Akuma, he can just jump and beam you. Let Chris cancel into his Grenade hyper to negate the beam so it's safer.

C. Viper:
EX moves canceling into one another are not the same as Bionic Lancer. Bionic Lancer requires you to DHC and change your team positioning. It also means you lose pressure once you DHC. C. Viper gets to stay on point and jump-cancels her EX Seismo cancel, which means she can immediately call a pinning assist while the opponent is in blockstun to retain momentum.

The EX cancel is also different from a DHC because when you DHC from Bionic Lancer, you pretty much have two options: chain into something that makes Bionic Lancer safe (Devil Trigger), or chain into something that can punish someone who was trying to punish you (Shinku Hadoken or something). C. Viper gets both. Her EX cancels let her stagger two invincible moves that lead to full combos, and both are safe. What Spencer DHCs offer this?

I'm open to reducing her minimum damage scaling on normals to 15%, and of course I back the level 3 change.

Chun-li:
I'll concede SBK block negation since Dahbomb showed me how it is useful.

Is anyone opposed to returning EX SBK to its current frame disadvantage on block?

Obviously I am for the post-level 3 follow-up.

c.L hitting low...I can go either way on this. We immensely improved her rushdown game.

Dante:
The Hammer change is only effective when it is low to the ground. I do think this move needs a little help. It got nerfed too hard in Ultimate, and now everyone has to cancel into it from j.S first.

Doom:
3/4 of us are against j.S nerfs, so I think it's actually on Dahbomb to convince 3/4 of us to make the changes. I honestly don't see a problem with the move. The most I'm willing to support is a decrease in its knockdown time, which also means removing his mid screen OTG combos.

Molecular Shield was changed to the H version for better projectile absorption and pinning.
Dahbomb said:
Captain America: Just a simple Backflip change, reduce recovery by 5 frame and add those 5 frames to the invincibility of it. Otherwise the character is fine.


Chris: On Prone position, the move sort of has a slow start up to really do much practical stuff. Making it 5 frame would allow it to stuff some hypers on reaction and make match ups more manageable, like dealing with mix ups and pressure.

On my grievances, right now I think H Grenade is too good (especially with the overhead buff) and M grenade is not as good. There has to be some incentive to use M grenade in the neutral. I don't want to nerf H grenade but Chris having an overhead with it is sort of unsettling and M grenade is sort of a fluff move in the neutral. This needs addressing IMO.


C Viper: A lot of people are simply against the EX change. I say take it out. Instead just nerf the damage scaling a bit more. Still indifferent on the LVL3 change mostly because it's always going to be redundant on her.


Chun Li: Cr.L controversy (already touched upon) and SBK changes.

SBK negating push block allows Chun Li to set up incoming mix ups with an assist. A very useful attribute to have on moves. The moves otherwise are pure shit so this would make them more usable. I don't care about the EX SBK change and I am fine with her LVL3 only being air OK. That is a good enough option as it is, if she is played on anchor she can guarantee her entrance and it's not like she really needs the meter in the neutral like Morrigan.


Dante: Just revert the Hammer buff and the character is fine. He has already gotten enough buffs as it is.


Dr Doom: Molecular shield needs more clarification... otherwise there is only the issue of Foot Dive. Foot Dive has been discussed already.
 

Frantic

Member
I'm fine with the Akuma and Ammy changes. I'm also fine with Cap's cartwheel change.

Viper: EX moves chaining into one another is stupid IMO, just because it's an unpunishable frametrap for an extra bar, whereas most DHCs can carry a risk. And I'm definitely in favor of a damage scaling reduction on her normals, since that's where the brunt of her damage comes from.

Chris: My only concern about Stun Rod becoming an overhead is it messing up hitconfirms. Right now he uses Stun Rod to move forward after his combo strings so that he can combo off his max range cr.M and what not. Slowing it down and making it an overhead means he no longer gets that, since s.H doesn't move him forward enough, and it doesn't cause enough hitstun for even a 21 frame normal to combo after it. You're basically removing his hitconfirm for a merely 'okay' mixup option when he has someone locked down.

Not really a fan of speeding up prone shot, and I don't see it being hyper cancelable as being helpful either. Your suggestion of canceling it into Grenade Launcher to negate Akuma's beam is just a guess since Akuma's beam starts up way too fast and Grenade Launcher is way too slow.

Chun-Li: I'm not opposed to returning to SBK back to its original disadvantage on block, since the air versions are + on block anyways. Same as with EX SBK. I don't particularly care if cr.L becomes a low. Also don't care if her level 3 has combo followup.

Dante: I can go either way with Hammer. Buffing it is fine with me, leaving as is is fine with me. Don't particularly care either way. It was Darksim's change, not mine. :p

Doom: People are going to cry for nerfs of Foot Dive, so the nerfs are fine compared to some.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Your suggestion of canceling it into Grenade Launcher to negate Akuma's beam is just a guess since Akuma's beam starts up way too fast and Grenade Launcher is way too slow.
I don't know about using Grenade Launcher but you could use the 5 frame start up to duck under beams and just hit the person out of it (like Chaotic Flame). That start up is the real buff, I don't really care for it being hyper cancelable.

And yea I am against the overhead change too. That move is just an all around solid normal to have, it being an overhead loses it previous utility. I think it's fine Chris doesn't have a high low mix up, not every character needs it as long as his chip and grab game is absurd.
 
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