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[The Mango Sentinel]

Primary team is X-23/Vergil/Hawkeye, less serious secondary team being Phoenix Wright (asking for trouble to bother, I'm aware)/Dante (slacked off considerably with him since vanilla)/Strider.

If they have Doom with Hidden Missiles, I'm screwed. If they use Storm, relatively screwed (had a bit more luck against her with Chris, and to a lesser extent Spencer). No idea how to deal with something like Trish setting up traps while calling Sentinel with Sentinel Force, either. Phoenix calling on Hidden Missiles while teleporting around...yeah, quite a problem for me as well.

Maybe you should put Hawkeye first to try and deal with the zoning. X-23 has one of the fastest wave dashes in the game and she can get around in the air.

Only online character on that team is Vergil.

Zero an online character? Da Fuq?

I don't give a shit what anyone says, once I picked up Zero I realized he is one of the least difficult characters to play in the game. My defense with him is garbage I admit, but as far as combos and actually playing him, he is really quite simple. When I started playing Zero/Dante/Vergil I was like...wtf, why don't I just play this stupid ass team.

 

[Sigmaah]

I don't give a shit what anyone says, once I picked up Zero I realized he is one of the least difficult characters to play in the game. My defense with him is garbage I admit, but as far as combos and actually playing him, he is really quite simple. When I started playing Zero/Dante/Vergil I was like...wtf, why don't I just play this stupid ass team.

Zero may not be as hard as people think, but playing him when there's some lag is horrible. At least for me. Slightest bit of lag fucks me up with him and Dante. God I hate lag.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Dante, absolutely. Hard as hell to play with in lag. I have trouble doing basic bold cancels. The only thing I have trouble doing in lag with Zero is lighting loops.

 

[FSLink]

Dante, yes.

Zero? Depends on how bad, with a little bit of lag as long as it's consistent, I can still do the lightning loops. Plus if it lags, I may get a random reset due to the lightning. :v /awful person

 

[Karsticles]

I don't want to gimp the move offensively or defensively, I just want it to not be super advantageous on block when Magneto has so many offensive options and his movement is ridiculous enough that he can overcome pushblock super easily. That's why I'd prefer anywhere from +15-18.

I'll try to catch up with the discussion over the weekend. Just popping in to add my two cents on the Mag Blast subject.

I would support a small change from +22 to +18.

 

[Dahbomb]

4 frames change is diddly squat. 18 frame block advantage on a high utility move is still absurd.

This is like a poke on the wrist, not even a slap on the wrist. What does a 4 frame change even do?

The absolute minimum change has to be a 10 frame reduction to +12. Anything higher than that you might as well just not list the nerf and declare that we are perfectly fine with having Magneto as the best character in the new patch.

 

[Marz]

Zero must not be that hard to play online, I'm always getting perfected.

 

[Korigama]

Maybe you should put Hawkeye first to try and deal with the zoning. X-23 has one of the fastest wave dashes in the game and she can get around in the air.

Hm, I could give that a try. Hawkeye remains the weak link for me on that team as it is, so I could stand to improve by making more use of him.

 

[Zissou]

4 frames change is diddly squat. 18 frame block advantage on a high utility move is still absurd.

This is like a poke on the wrist, not even a slap on the wrist. What does a 4 frame change even do?

The absolute minimum change has to be a 10 frame reduction to +12. Anything higher than that you might as well just not list the nerf and declare that we are perfectly fine with having Magneto as the best character in the new patch.

A four frame change to mag blast blockstun is nothing but when I complained about Chun-li getting a 2 frame faster low option, you argued strongly that it mattered!

Dorm is going to be the best character anyway

 

[Dahbomb]

A four frame change to mag blast blockstun is nothing but when I complained about Chun-li getting a 2 frame faster low option, you argued strongly that it mattered!

Dorm is going to be the best character anyway

Nah I was talking about 4 frame difference on Mag Blast. On other moves even a 1 frame difference can be huge but in this case it changes nothing. It would still be an extremely difficult move to punish on while having absurd frame advantage. There's a big difference between a 4 frame low and a 6 frame low, there's effectively no difference between a move that +22 vs a move that is +18. At +12 is where a slight difference actually arises in terms of making the move more manageable versus chicken blocking and trip guarding.

Dorm will be top 5 but he would be top 5 with weaknesses. Magneto would be the best without any inherent weaknesses.

 

[Karsticles]

I updated the votes. Here are mine for the next 10 characters:
RR: N; I want the unblockable removed; thinking about Rocket Skates becoming more flexible

Ryu: Y

Sentinel: Y

She-Hulk: Y

Shuma-Gorath: Y

Spencer: Y

Spider-man: Y

Storm: N; I would rather have the float-assist over double air dashes.

Strider: N; don't I need to change the slide cancel into "Formation B (Shot)"?

Super-Skrull: Y

Rocket Raccoon - N, air series being more reliable needs more specific description. Are we improving hit stun, improving recovery, improving start up, improving hit box?

Sometimes we just need to let Capcom figure the specifics out. We have left plenty of stuff vague.

Also, how powerful would it be for RR to have Rocket Skates to be special cancelable, not just be cancelable into j.S?

I was thinking about another change: Rocket Skates can now pass through opponents. Yours is interesting, too. I feel like some tweaks to Rocket Skates, while removing the unblockable, would make him a lot better and more interesting. He's boring right now.

Unsure about removing his unblockables, same deal as MODOK.

1-player game.

Ryu - N, Hadoken recovery change needs to be supplemented by a hit stun change. Standard procedure to prevent loops/infinites.

If we reduce the recovery and don't change the hit/blockstun, it should be assumed that those values stay the same. So if Hadoken is -1 on block, and we reduce the recovery by 10, it should be assumed that it is still -1 on block unless we specify otherwise.

Also his fuzzy guard into L Tatsumaki should be a true hit string. Right now he needs assists like Drones to be able to capitalize off of his fuzzy guard set up, this is the type of change he really needs. I will come up with what change to replace this with in a bit.

Go for it; I'll vote it in.

Sentinel - N, big no on hyper armor on st.S. It's too scrubby and too absurd of a tool for start of round game.

Sentinel has a great start of the round with his double jump already. s.S won't be good for the start of the round because f.H beats it (you can throw him through armor). It's not scrubby because it's very negative on block.

She Hulk - N, need to clarify what you mean on "speed increased". Dash speed? Jump speed? Fall speed? They changed around her jump/fall speed to be more in line with a heavy, I think that's what you mean here.

It's not my change - I hate She-Hulk. ;-)

Storm - N because there are two changes that need to be addressed.

The Typhoon change needs to be reworked because as it is written now it will for sure lead into infinites. I have a solution will post in the next post separately.

The cr.L into cr.H is supposed to be her st.H.

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be c.L into c.H, since those don't chain right now. s.H has weak range.

I don't see how Typhoon will have infinites outside of XF3 stuff.

Super Skrull - N, uncertain on Brutal Pile Bunker being a safe (and thus spammable) move

The dude's entire moveset is unsafe. He needs safer approach tools.

Iron Man - Y (he also needs a buff to his BGM!)

Only 10 changes. :-(

Jill - N: I'm fine with mad beast being a level 1, but will its duration remain the same? It seems a bit long for a level one install hyper. I also think 900k health is appropriate, as stated earlier. I'm also iffy about fallen prey forcing a neutral tech- what's the reasoning behind why she needs this?

You think 600 frames of Mad Beast with no meter building is too much? Because Morrigan gets 600 frames with meter building, and Dante and Vergil get 600 frames for Devil Trigger. I don't see Mad Beast as being better than those, especially with the ridiculously good moves Dante gets during Devil Trigger.

Fallen Prey fits her moveset, and it makes the move useful.

Magneto - not sure if the version in the post on the first page is what we're voting on.

Apparently you, Dahbomb, and Frantic all want to nerf Magnetic Blast. So you guys need to figure that out.

M.O.D.O.K.- N: Keep-away MODOK is already good- some characters only have hail mary projectile hypers as a way to deal with this playstyle.

That is untrue. MODOK is not good at covering 70% of the screen. He also doesn't build LOU well outside of TAC combos. He's not like Hawkeye or Morrigan. Hell, most characters can even duck under his beam.

Morrigan - N: OTG soul fists combined with her longer untechable knockdowns just seems unnecessary. Also, how will darkness illusion crumple work on the air version? We're not reducing hitstun on her fireballs at all either?

Why on earth would we reduce the hitstun on Soul Fist and mess up her combos?!

Wright - Y- How does meat work currently? If it recovers a specific amount of red health currently, I think we ought to make it restore all his red health- the guy meeds all the help he can get.

I support this change; if Frantic and Dahbomb agree, I'll add the change in.

 

[Zissou]

If we were to buff rocket skates, I'd like to be able to use his float after rocket skates- it'd give him more varied approach options. In match-ups where he can't approach well from the ground, he could normal jump, rocket skate up or up forward, and call assists while fairly high in the air.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Sentinel has a great start of the round with his double jump already. s.S won't be good for the start of the round because f.H beats it (you can throw him through armor). It's not scrubby because it's very negative on block .

I thought you wanted all launchers safe on block. Or is that something that didn't go through?

 

[Karsticles]

I thought you wanted all launchers safe on block. Or is that something that didn't go through?

The other gents were generally against it.

If we were to buff rocket skates, I'd like to be able to use his float after rocket skates- it'd give him more varied approach options. In match-ups where he can't approach well from the ground, he could normal jump, rocket skate up or up forward, and call assists while fairly high in the air.

So you want to give him Storm's float ability in practice when you guys won't even give it to Storm?

 

[Zissou]

We should give it to Storm too!

 

["God's Beard!"]

lol Rocket Skates is already special cancelable, come on now guys.

 

[Dahbomb]

Sometimes we just need to let Capcom figure the specifics out. We have left plenty of stuff vague.

You probably need to increase hit stun on his air moves because it's so little and that's why his combos are way more strict than they should be.

I was thinking about another change: Rocket Skates can now pass through opponents. Yours is interesting, too. I feel like some tweaks to Rocket Skates, while removing the unblockable, would make him a lot better and more interesting. He's boring right now.

The RR change was just a "what if" type change, not a lot of serious thought was put into it. I don't think RR is boring but he is lacking in some areas.

If we reduce the recovery and don't change the hit/blockstun, it should be assumed that those values stay the same. So if Hadoken is -1 on block, and we reduce the recovery by 10, it should be assumed that it is still -1 on block unless we specify otherwise.

So in order for him to stay -1 on block you would have to lower his block stun by 10. And if his hit advantage is supposed to stay the same then you need to lower that by 10 as well. You still need to clarify that block advantage and hit advantage remain the same because when you reduce recovery you are changing all sorts of frame data and people won't know if other stuff is being changed alongside it. Basically what we did with Hsien Ko where the frame data was laid out.

Go for it; I'll vote it in.

I need to figure out what I want to remove first.

Sentinel has a great start of the round with his double jump already. s.S won't be good for the start of the round because f.H beats it (you can throw him through armor). It's not scrubby because it's very negative on block.

It's scrubby as hell and there's no normal hyper armor move in the game because it's ridiculous. It's negative on block but the push back makes it not that easy to punish. It's basically giving Sentinel a free reversal, something that he doesn't need when he has armored moves. It marginalizes his other armored moves greatly. Totally against it.

It's not my change - I hate She-Hulk. ;-)

Pretty sure whoever requested the change wanted her fall speed/jump speed to be changed because that is what was changed going from Vanilla to Ultimate. So you should basically just say "jump speed/fall speed reverted to Vanilla status" or something like that.

The dude's entire moveset is unsafe. He needs safer approach tools.

Didn't we give him more safe moves? Like Orbital Grudge?

It's not a big deal though.

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be c.L into c.H, since those don't chain right now. s.H has weak range.

I don't see how Typhoon will have infinites outside of XF3 stuff.

Nah st.H has enough range to be able to reach but cr.L doesn't have enough hit stun or st.H doesn't have enough start up speed. She should basically be able to link her Ls into Hs generally speaking.

The Typhoon is an infinite now because the start up means you can always OTG. The move is like +40 on hit meaning any time you connect with it (even at max scaling) you can link a launcher after it easy. The reason why the infinite works in XF2/3 is because the start up of the move is improved to the point where you can always OTG with it. We improved the start up of the Typhoon and thus it would be a corner infinite with j.S Typhoon st.S j.S.

My solution to this is this: The changes we implemented in terms of frame data should apply to L and M version BUT these versions should not be OTG capable. The H version should remain the same as before (OTG capable but slow) BUT it has tracking capability as a point. All versions go up all the way of course. The assist version will be the H version of course.

This change basically makes Typhoons a better zoning option while still making sure she doesn't have infinites with it. Her combos are unaffected by this change as well, in fact she can probably do slightly fancier combos with a tracking Typhoon.


Also I am still against double air dash on Storm. No against assist call during float either.

I already proposed Mag Blasts be changed to +12 and call a vote on it.

I am fine with the Wright change.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

Man, now Clockw0rk's Vergil looks as scary as his Strider/Doom. He put his character in the corner to negate pushblock and setup an overhead.

 

[kevo_huevo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Naja7DPAKY
(skip to 2:34)

I was just browsing youtube to find some tech for a new team, and I had no idea Akuma could connect after crumple.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I really wanna play Marvel :-(

Vega, E.Ryu and Dudley just aren't fun like Hawkeye/Vergil/Magneto.

 

[Solune]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Naja7DPAKY
(skip to 2:34)

I was just browsing youtube to find some tech for a new team, and I had no idea Akuma could connect after crumple.

Pretty sure all of the cast has some sort of follow up to a crumple except for Big characters like Sentinel having an awkward hitbox on their tag in hitting other characters during their crumple state.

 

[kevo_huevo]

Hmm.
Gonna hop on psn soon for an hour or so if anyone wants to play a not short but not long set.

 

[Marz]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";81654681]I really wanna play Marvel :-(

Vega, E.Ryu and Dudley just aren't fun like Hawkeye/Vergil/Magneto.[/QUOTE]

Not a fan of letting other people play eh?

 

[Karsticles]

We should give it to Storm too!

YES!

 

[Marz]

Hmm.
Gonna hop on psn soon for an hour or so if anyone wants to play a not short but not long set.

Good games bro. We need to play some SF4 again sometime!

 

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

Karst why do you want all launchers safe on block?

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Karst why do you want all launchers safe on block?

Some launchers are really great poke tools, like Dorm's for example, but it's extremely unsafe on block. It would just open up some options for characters, and give everyone a safe block string. I would use Sentinel's and Chris's a lot more if they were safe.

I'm against it, but I can see why he's for it.

 

[Dahbomb]

Making every launcher safe gives every character a scrubby ABCS confirm without repercussions. It's bad enough that someone like Wesker or Doom have it, every character in the game having it would make it even scrubbier.

Sentinel would never even use confirms, he would just run up and spam launchers all day. It gets blocked? No worries it's safe. It gets pushed block? No worries. Someone tries to beat it out with a normal? No worries, armor beats it out.

 

[onionfrog]

Making every launcher safe gives every character a scrubby ABCS confirm without repercussions. It's bad enough that someone like Wesker or Doom have it, every character in the game having it would make it even scrubbier.

Sentinel would never even use confirms, he would just run up and spam launchers all day. It gets blocked? No worries it's safe. It gets pushed block? No worries. Someone tries to beat it out with a normal? No worries, armor beats it out.

I feel the same way. Making all launchers safe would only serve to promote thoughtless play.

 

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

I think Dahbomb pretty much said word for word on how I feel about it.

 

[kevo_huevo]

Good games bro. We need to play some SF4 again sometime!

GGs! For some reason the Internet literally explodes when we try to play SF but I'm down to try again.

 

[Ghazi]

Early warning, I'm about to try and livestream and I'd appreciate it if some of you guys would watch it and give me pointers. My experience today has been terrible, I'm getting blown up by everyone.

Warning, it'll be low quality and I'll probably make some mistakes because there'll be video lag on my screen.

I'll edit the post when I have it up, if I can get it working.

 

[Aieyla]

Losing frame advantage is a big enough punishment for using your launcher. It doesn't need to be unsafe.

 

[Dahbomb]

Losing frame advantage is a big enough punishment for using your launcher. It doesn't need to be unsafe.

It's not a big enough punishment at all. If it was why the hell are we nerfing Wesker and Magneto launchers?

IMO all launchers should be punishable moves. The launchers with exceptional anti air capability should be even more unsafe. Risk vs reward etc.

No need to.talk about this anymore, it was rejected from the patch. We should be focusing on the new characters.

 

[Ghazi]

I'm live, will be doing training only for now because there's a lot of latency when I receive video on my laptop which the capture card is connected to.

 

[Professor Beef]

GGs! For some reason the Internet literally explodes when we try to play SF but I'm down to try again.

>:|

 

[Karsticles]

It's not a big enough punishment at all. If it was why the hell are we nerfing Wesker and Magneto launchers?

IMO all launchers should be punishable moves. The launchers with exceptional anti air capability should be even more unsafe. Risk vs reward etc.

No need to.talk about this anymore, it was rejected from the patch. We should be focusing on the new characters.

We are nerfing those launchers in accordance with our design. Ambiguous crossunder launchers should be punishable if others are.

I don't see why launchers deserve to be more punishable than any other move. They are already the least safe move in every moveset because they are not special cancelable.

 

[Dahbomb]

Ryu, Akuma, Vergil and Storm have ambiguous cross under launchers too. For Akuma and Storm it's a legitimate incoming mix up that Justin Wong has even used to win matches with.

 

[Karsticles]

Ryu, Akuma, Vergil and Storm have ambiguous cross under launchers too. For Akuma and Storm it's a legitimate incoming mix up that Justin Wong has even used to win matches with.

Agreed on Ryu and Akuma, but not Vergil and Storm. Even so, Vergil's launcher being safe is a defining trait of the character, so we can't change that anyway. For some reason, Akuma and Ryu players rarely use the crossunder.

Like I said, launchers are already the most unsafe normal in the game for every character. Making them safe on block would not lead to lmhs blockstrings. It would just give launchers more of a use in the neutral, opening up new options.

Anyway, I am looking forward to Zissou and Frantic's votes on Tue next 10 characters, and for you three to talk about Magnetic Blast.

 

[Karsticles]

Some solid Thor play if anyone is interested; reposted from GFAQs:

they uploaded some archives if anyone wants to see some of the matches. tagged some of them:

serp v apc part 1
http://www.twitch.tv/ikariain/b/458573750?t=6m22s

serp v apc part 2
http://www.twitch.tv/ikariain/b/458587346

serp v kira part 1
?=28m46s

serp v kira part 2
http://www.twitch.tv/ikariain/b/458592185

 

[Frantic]

How about for Magnetic Blast, we do 4 frames of blockstun reduction, and 3 frames of grounded recovery? This way you can trip guard him as he's coming down, it won't mess with his combos too much, and it'll be +15 instead of +22. It'll also help prevent immediate pushblock negation with a dash due to needing to recover to dash.

Agreed on Ryu and Akuma, but not Vergil and Storm. Even so, Vergil's launcher being safe is a defining trait of the character, so we can't change that anyway. For some reason, Akuma and Ryu players rarely use the crossunder.

Look at THIS and pause at 0:07. Are you telling me that hitbox can not lead to the most ambiguous bullshit ever? Or am I reading something wrong? Just standing there and hitting s.S is one of Vergil's easiest incoming mixups and it catches tons of people. Pretty sure Justin Wong actually got hit by it in his sets with Flocker at EVO.

Also, just because Vergil's launcher being safe is a defining trait does not mean it's a good trait from a balance perspective. Zero's defining trait right now is his ability to turn a two player game into a single-player game, yet we're changing that. You also changed his Buster so it's slower, and that's his entire gameplan. Changing Vergil's launcher would be nothing in comparison. The range and speed of Vergil's launcher is ridiculous compared to other launchers, and allowing it to become special cancelable is retarded. Launchers should carry a risk because they have the easiest hit confirm in the world, but Vergil - who's designed to be an unsafe character - can just run around throwing that shit out like a retard and be advantageous against most of the cast.

I'll do the next ten characters either later today, or tomorrow.

 

[Dahbomb]

Vergil's st.S is an extremely ambiguous cross under move. Best is that you can cancel into st.H to do a ground wall bounce combo before you actually launch them in the air.

That sounds like Frantic wants a Vergil launcher nerf, I guess we will cross that road when we get there.

Anyway my final comment on launchers is that launchers are never supposed to be good pokes in the neutral otherwise most of them would have good horizontal reach. They usually have a good anti air hit box though and thus are good anti air moves but anti air moves usually have to be unsafe especially when you get a full combo off of them. Launchers are easy to hit confirm off of and that is a consideration when you have to balance these moves (so stuff like Hulk's st.H is unsafe). The better the launcher is as an anti air move, the more unsafe it has to be. I don't care if something like Iron Fist's launcher is -2 because it's garbage but when Sentinel's launcher which is an armored move with a humongous hit box becomes safe on block that is a big problem and leads to derpy play. This is why a universal change never made sense... there's a huge disparity in launcher quality and all you are doing is making the characters who have good launcher hit boxes (Sentinel, Ghost Rider, Dormammu, Nemesis) be better and derpier characters.

How about for Magnetic Blast, we do 4 frames of blockstun reduction, and 3 frames of grounded recovery? This way you can trip guard him as he's coming down, it won't mess with his combos too much, and it'll be +15 instead of +22. It'll also help prevent immediate pushblock negation with a dash due to needing to recover to dash.

I like this change, even more than my own suggestion.

 

[Frantic]

That sounds like Frantic wants a Vergil launcher nerf, I guess we will cross that road when we get there.

More than anything I want the hitboxes to be adjusted on his normals. He can keep Upper Slash after a launch for all I care, I was mainly just calling out the fact that 'it's defining character trait' is a bullshit reason to not nerf something(especially when we've already nerfed some 'defining character traits').

That and I was in a state of disbelief that Karst would say Vergil's launcher is not ambiguous as fuck. I might have come off as a little strong because of that.

 

[Dahbomb]

I already suggested we nerf st.S and st.H but it was not accepted.

Besides this new Vergil is fair and balanced. And really... big hit boxes on Vergil's normals is in fact a "character trait" just like him not being able to whiff cancel his normals is a character trait.

This Vergil launcher thing reminds me that I now have more ammo for Spider Man Web Zip. Oh boy...

 

[Frantic]

I already suggested we nerf st.S and st.H but it was not accepted.

Besides this new Vergil is fair and balanced. And really... big hit boxes on Vergil's normals is in fact a "character trait" just like him not being able to whiff cancel his normals is a character trait.

To be honest, I don't like the current changelist for Vergil much. He's going to be one I'll actually talk quite a bit on. Trish will also get me talking a lot, too.

 

[Karsticles]

Zero 300% teams is not hit defining trait, it's a result of several traits. Zero's defining traits are his buster shot and Raikousen. It's one thing to alter/nerf defining traits, it's another to remove them altogether.

Vergil's s.S has a hitbox behind it, but players rarely dash under you and use it for crossunders. Then again, that is likely because Spiral Swords never leaves the screen, and with our changes s.S might become more problematic. I'm not sure whether we should change it, since it does fit the animation.

Also, I feel as though people are reading me as saying that launchers which can crossunder should be nerfed, but that was not what I said. I don't really care. I was just saying that if launchers that suck are unsafe on block, it seems that useful ones should be, too. Though I would rather us make them all safe.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Anyone have a pic of the hitbox for one of Felicia's command normals, the b+H (Kitty Slash)? I know the hitbox is absurd, I just want to know how absurd it is. I abuse the fuck out of that move.

 

[Frantic]

Zero 300% teams is not hit defining trait, it's a result of several traits. Zero's defining traits are his buster shot and Raikousen. It's one thing to alter/nerf defining traits, it's another to remove them altogether.

You said 'change', not 'remove'. I wouldn't want to remove it either, but it's very easy to change it so that the ability to make it safe becomes less braindead than s.SH > Judgment Cut/Round Trip/Spiral Swords/Devil Trigger. Ultimately, it's a moot point since we're not even discussing Vergil at the moment.

Also, you are wanting to remove a defining character trait from one character: Spider-Man's ability to block during Web Glide!

Vergil's s.S has a hitbox behind it, but players rarely dash under you and use it for crossunders. Then again, that is likely because Spiral Swords never leaves the screen, and with our changes s.S might become more problematic. I'm not sure whether we should change it, since it does fit the animation.

I see Vergils do it all the time, and I have Vergils do it to me all the time. I have more difficulty blocking it than the Round Trip mixups to be perfectly honest.

 

[Karsticles]

Also, giving Magneto 3 recovery on Magnetic Blast when he lands is fucking with his mobility, and he won't be able to use it as a mid-screen zoning tool. That's far worse than decreasing the blockstun. He needs to flow.

You said 'change', not 'remove'. I wouldn't want to remove it either, but it's very easy to change it so that the ability to make it safe becomes less braindead than s.SH > Judgment Cut/Round Trip/Spiral Swords/Devil Trigger. Ultimately, it's a moot point since we're not even discussing Vergil at the moment.

Also, you are wanting to remove a defining character trait from one character: Spider-Man's ability to block during Web Glide!

I've actually offered to compromise on Spider-man; I consider the web hitbox to be the defining trait, not the ability to block while moving.

I'm curious how you think the SH blockstring could be changed.

I see Vergils do it all the time, and I have Vergils do it to me all the time. I have more difficulty blocking it than the Round Trip mixups to be perfectly honest.

K.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Why not make it so he can only do it a limited number of times? Like SHSH and that's it.

EDIT: On second thought, I generally don't see it go past 4 hits.....