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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT4| Nothing Stops This Patch!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
I think I might have just played MarlinPie, although I'm not 100% sure of that. If it was a fake, he did a remarkable job of impersonating MarlinPie's playstyle, setups, combos, and general habits. That and his lack of defense, but that's not too hard to do. 
That's already in place, a change between vanilla to Ultimate, unless you're talking about legs being invincible during attacks? That'd cause more balance issues than it'd solve. The better suggestion is the fix the hurtboxes so they don't grow past their body, and also make it so that hurtboxes don't grow ten times their size when they get hit.
That's pretty much a hit box rework on the game... I don't think we can even suggest that. So many combos would be affected by such a wide change.
I do agree that the problem in the game is less "OMG the hit box on this move is insane" and more characters having hurt boxes extending way outside their bodies sometimes. This is especially true when characters are moving around and their hurt box sizes are constantly changing.
I do agree that the problem in the game is less "OMG the hit box on this move is insane" and more characters having hurt boxes extending way outside their bodies sometimes. This is especially true when characters are moving around and their hurt box sizes are constantly changing.
Karsticles
Member
I added some suggestions for each character:
Spencer:
*Up grapple now affected by damage decay.
*Armor Piercer assist startup reduced to 35 frames, invincible until frame 36.
*Bionic Lancer vertical hitbox reduced slightly; no longer connects on opponents near maximum jump height.
*f.H is now +2 on block.
*Bionic Bomber startup reduced to 25.
*Smash Kick and Critical Smash no longer use up Spencer’s wall bounce; still causes a wall bounce.
*Swing Wire infinite removed (somehow?)
*s.S reduced to -5 on block.
Assists: Wire Grapple M, Wire Grapple L, Armor Piercer
Spider-man:
*Web Glide can no longer be block canceled.
*Web Ball H (assist) is unaffected by hitstun deterioration.
*Spider Bite (assist) hits overhead and caused a ground bounce.
*Spider Swing input changed to f.H.
*Ultimate Web Throw hitbox changed to better match the animation; startup reduced to 15+3.
*Untechable time after Maximum Spider increased slightly; now possible to OTG follow-up.
*Standing and crouching normals now pull opponents in more.
Assists: Web Ball H, Web Swing H, Spider Sting H x Spider Bite
Viewtiful Joe:
*Red Hot Kick L and M hit OTG.
*Viewtiful Uppercut M (assist) now allows for full combos on crossover counter.
*Voomerang (all non-charged versions) no longer disappears when Viewtiful Joe is hit.
*Groovy Uppercut M is now +10 on hit.
*Voomerang (charged) changed disappear after the second hit; no longer lingers once its durability is gone.
Assists: Shocking Pink, Viewtiful Uppercut M, Voomerang L (Charged)
Amaterasu:
*Bloom’s frame data is now the same as Dark Harmonizer.
*Minimum damage scaling on normals increased to 15%.
*Minimum damage scaling on hypers increased to 40%.
*Weapon Change startup reduced to 5 frames.
*Divine Instruments untechable knockdown time increased; follow-up combo possible.
*Veil of Mist no longer prevents meter generation for Amaterasu’s teammates.
*Thunder Edge is now +1 on block.
*Devout Beads Whip and Rosary Chain Combo Ichi, Ni, San, and Shi are now special cancelable.
*Rosary Chain Combo Ichi, Ni, San, and Shi all pull the opponent in closer on block or hit.
*Amaterasu is now able to block 5 frames after the player lets go of her air dash input; air dash ceases immediately when inputs are let go of.
Assists: Cold Star H, Power Slash H, Bloom
Magneto:
*EM Disruptor L assist no longer appears behind the point character.
*Forcefield now reflects projectiles and negates beams.
*Hyper Grav (all versions) damage reduced to 65,000; frame advantage improved by 7 for all versions on block.
*Magnetic Blast change?
*s.S now -6 on block.
Assists: EM Disruptor L, Hyper Grav H, Reverse Polarity
Felicia:
*Health increased to 900,000.
*Delta Kick H assist pushes opponents back significantly on block.
*Cat & Mouse is now special cancelable, distance increased slightly.
*Dancing Flash now causes a soft knockdown.
*Dash speed increased slightly.
*Neko Punch now causes a crumple state.
*Rolling Uppercut is now jump cancelable off of the opponent on block or hit.
*Cat Spike M vertical hitbox increased downward; now hits crouching characters more consistently.
*Toy Touch hitstun returned to Vanilla status.
*Sand Splash projectile hit points increased to 5; assist version startup reduced to 35 frames.
Assists: Rolling Buckler L + Rolling Slide, Sand Splash H, Delta Kick H
Spencer:
*Up grapple now affected by damage decay.
*Armor Piercer assist startup reduced to 35 frames, invincible until frame 36.
*Bionic Lancer vertical hitbox reduced slightly; no longer connects on opponents near maximum jump height.
*f.H is now +2 on block.
*Bionic Bomber startup reduced to 25.
*Smash Kick and Critical Smash no longer use up Spencer’s wall bounce; still causes a wall bounce.
*Swing Wire infinite removed (somehow?)
*s.S reduced to -5 on block.
Assists: Wire Grapple M, Wire Grapple L, Armor Piercer
Spider-man:
*Web Glide can no longer be block canceled.
*Web Ball H (assist) is unaffected by hitstun deterioration.
*Spider Bite (assist) hits overhead and caused a ground bounce.
*Spider Swing input changed to f.H.
*Ultimate Web Throw hitbox changed to better match the animation; startup reduced to 15+3.
*Untechable time after Maximum Spider increased slightly; now possible to OTG follow-up.
*Standing and crouching normals now pull opponents in more.
Assists: Web Ball H, Web Swing H, Spider Sting H x Spider Bite
Viewtiful Joe:
*Red Hot Kick L and M hit OTG.
*Viewtiful Uppercut M (assist) now allows for full combos on crossover counter.
*Voomerang (all non-charged versions) no longer disappears when Viewtiful Joe is hit.
*Groovy Uppercut M is now +10 on hit.
*Voomerang (charged) changed disappear after the second hit; no longer lingers once its durability is gone.
Assists: Shocking Pink, Viewtiful Uppercut M, Voomerang L (Charged)
Amaterasu:
*Bloom’s frame data is now the same as Dark Harmonizer.
*Minimum damage scaling on normals increased to 15%.
*Minimum damage scaling on hypers increased to 40%.
*Weapon Change startup reduced to 5 frames.
*Divine Instruments untechable knockdown time increased; follow-up combo possible.
*Veil of Mist no longer prevents meter generation for Amaterasu’s teammates.
*Thunder Edge is now +1 on block.
*Devout Beads Whip and Rosary Chain Combo Ichi, Ni, San, and Shi are now special cancelable.
*Rosary Chain Combo Ichi, Ni, San, and Shi all pull the opponent in closer on block or hit.
*Amaterasu is now able to block 5 frames after the player lets go of her air dash input; air dash ceases immediately when inputs are let go of.
Assists: Cold Star H, Power Slash H, Bloom
Magneto:
*EM Disruptor L assist no longer appears behind the point character.
*Forcefield now reflects projectiles and negates beams.
*Hyper Grav (all versions) damage reduced to 65,000; frame advantage improved by 7 for all versions on block.
*Magnetic Blast change?
*s.S now -6 on block.
Assists: EM Disruptor L, Hyper Grav H, Reverse Polarity
Felicia:
*Health increased to 900,000.
*Delta Kick H assist pushes opponents back significantly on block.
*Cat & Mouse is now special cancelable, distance increased slightly.
*Dancing Flash now causes a soft knockdown.
*Dash speed increased slightly.
*Neko Punch now causes a crumple state.
*Rolling Uppercut is now jump cancelable off of the opponent on block or hit.
*Cat Spike M vertical hitbox increased downward; now hits crouching characters more consistently.
*Toy Touch hitstun returned to Vanilla status.
*Sand Splash projectile hit points increased to 5; assist version startup reduced to 35 frames.
Assists: Rolling Buckler L + Rolling Slide, Sand Splash H, Delta Kick H
Karsticles
Member
I need ideas for how to remove Spencer's infinite. I improved Spencer's launcher to compensate for the Bionic Lancer nerf. Now he has a good anti-air that is difficult to punish on block.
Spider Bite already hits overhead.
Why are you on the ground against Dormammu?! That is why your Chris is bad. You're always on the ground, and you never throw grenades out. Dormammu can't do anything about Chris' air game.
But she can mode swap. I don't think it's a good idea to let her choose whether to chip people out with bead normals or play rushdown. That's a very generous gift. I made another change that I think makes the beads more useful.
Spider Bite already hits overhead.
I think I might have just played MarlinPie, although I'm not 100% sure of that. If it was a fake, he did a remarkable job of impersonating MarlinPie's playstyle, setups, combos, and general habits. That and his lack of defense, but that's not too hard to do.
That's already in place, a change between vanilla to Ultimate, unless you're talking about legs being invincible during attacks? That'd cause more balance issues than it'd solve. The better suggestion is the fix the hurtboxes so they don't grow past their body, and also make it so that hurtboxes don't grow ten times their size when they get hit.
I was just joking about reworking the hit boxes; nerfing Bionic Lancer is fine.
Why do we need to make Spencer's launcher better? Seems like an unnecessary change just to make it 2 frame better.
There's a Swing Wire infinite? Link to it please.
F+H should be 0 on block. The reason why -2 is a problem because after the overhead he can be thrown as he pushes his body forward so he can't do Armor Piercer after it. At +2 he wouldn't need to use Armor Pierce and can just pressure you. The reason he needs Armor Piercer is to beat out your normal, if it's +2 there would be no reason. It should be a flat 0 on block. I like this change, definitely solves an important element of his game play.
I just realized you made Armor Piercer a fully invincible assist... that's nuts. The move causes a wall bounce for god's sakes. Just give it upper body invincibility so that you don't at least get interrupted in a combo with that assist and it leads into a wall bounce. Definitely need to check this assist out because that would be really derpy.
Definitely like those Joe changes, I didn't like that the Charged version was remaining in tact without any modifications. Shit is way too annoying for some characters. So it's good that it will get some change.
Mag Blast should either have way more recovery OR a durability change. I think God's just wants a durability change to 3 points so it's not equivalent to a fireball with a ton of utility.
Those Ammy changes sound good.
There's a Swing Wire infinite? Link to it please.
F+H should be 0 on block. The reason why -2 is a problem because after the overhead he can be thrown as he pushes his body forward so he can't do Armor Piercer after it. At +2 he wouldn't need to use Armor Pierce and can just pressure you. The reason he needs Armor Piercer is to beat out your normal, if it's +2 there would be no reason. It should be a flat 0 on block. I like this change, definitely solves an important element of his game play.
I just realized you made Armor Piercer a fully invincible assist... that's nuts. The move causes a wall bounce for god's sakes. Just give it upper body invincibility so that you don't at least get interrupted in a combo with that assist and it leads into a wall bounce. Definitely need to check this assist out because that would be really derpy.
Definitely like those Joe changes, I didn't like that the Charged version was remaining in tact without any modifications. Shit is way too annoying for some characters. So it's good that it will get some change.
Mag Blast should either have way more recovery OR a durability change. I think God's just wants a durability change to 3 points so it's not equivalent to a fireball with a ton of utility.
Those Ammy changes sound good.
I tested it before, prone 10f startup vs Chaotic Flame 8+3, Chris will still always get hit if you try to do it on reaction. It doesn't work even at full screen.
Chris' air game is not good, but you would understand that if you played the character. superjumping forward is very risky especially against teleporters or airdashers. sjb d+H xx Magnum or whatever is very good for space control.
Also in that very thread, some posters go into why Chris is bad vs Dorm in the air.
Well I know what I am changing now in the changelist for Chris...
Prone position now has 5 frame start up... nah that would be too good with his new special cancelable prone.
The only sure-fire way to remove it is to adjust the hitstun values of zip, which would probably screw up all his combos.
Also, you might want to be careful of tweaking f.H, and how you tweak it. Always have to state whether it's recovery you're cutting off, increasing the blockstun, etc. If you cut off the recovery to make it +2, you suddenly have +10 on hit, which would give Spencer easy, free conversions with his normals.
Karsticles
Member
To give him better anti-air options against those super bad matchups like Magneto.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwh4X_f0048
It's not damaging, but if someone mastered it (MarlinPie practices it a lot) it could be used to kill time and stuff. And it could just be removed on principle.
How about +1? Spencer can't pressure most characters afterward because, as you said, he has slow normals. So at +1, he's not going into his 6-frame s.L (or is it c.L?) against most of the cast. He'll need to back up or something.
It has a terribly small hitbox, though. And unless he's right next to you, it takes like 20 frames to come out. It's only an invincible hit if someone is right next to you. I think it has pretty limited usefulness that justifies the invincibility.
It's like Chris' ground fires. I just don't know when the hitbox is gone. :-(
I don't see how that fixes the problem, though. Magnetic blast isn't too good as a keepaway tool, it's too good as an approach tool. The Magnetic Blast is on the screen for maybe 10 frames when used properly; projectiles never interact with it anyway.
Cool.
Stay in the air!
Karsticles
Member
Another way to change the zip would be to mess with how it juggles characters, or how Spencer falls after performing the zips. If Spencer floated more after a zip, it wouldn't ruin his combos (it would make them easier), but he wouldn't be able to return to the ground in time for another zip link.
K.
JeTmAn81
Member
I would think Dormammu could throw out Purifications against a full screen Chris if he gets some space, or just jump up and hang out in spots Chris can't touch and charge spells. Also, jump up, call assist (missiles) and teleport.
The +1 and 0 are different in terms of psychology of the match.
If you know his f+H got buffed to be positive... you aren't going to press a button after it. You know it's positive but you don't know how much and you forgot if he had 6 frame normal or 5 frame or 7 frame. This will make you less likely to press a button after it which makes Spencer's Armor Pierce frame trap game weaker.
If it's 0 on block, you will remember that and know that you can go for your fast normal after it as Spencer has slow normal. There is no frame advantage and disadvantage here... the only way Spencer can still beat you with Armor Piercer.
You also have to remember that Spencer has a command throw so you can't really afford to make this + on block, this gives him another mix up option potentially. If someone is less likely to press buttons after the overhead, they are more likely to be gripped by a command throw. At 0 it's at the perfect frame advantage where you can STILL beat out Spencer's armor piercer with a snap back.
If you know his f+H got buffed to be positive... you aren't going to press a button after it. You know it's positive but you don't know how much and you forgot if he had 6 frame normal or 5 frame or 7 frame. This will make you less likely to press a button after it which makes Spencer's Armor Pierce frame trap game weaker.
If it's 0 on block, you will remember that and know that you can go for your fast normal after it as Spencer has slow normal. There is no frame advantage and disadvantage here... the only way Spencer can still beat you with Armor Piercer.
You also have to remember that Spencer has a command throw so you can't really afford to make this + on block, this gives him another mix up option potentially. If someone is less likely to press buttons after the overhead, they are more likely to be gripped by a command throw. At 0 it's at the perfect frame advantage where you can STILL beat out Spencer's armor piercer with a snap back.
Oh fuck.... yea this should be removed on principle. But any suggestion we give would fuck up his combo. I would just say "remove Zipline infinite without affecting his combos". I don't know how that will actually pan out but it should still be addressed.
They you have to reduce the block stun some way. If you start messing with the recovery it starts affecting his combos and we can't afford to double nerf his combos now. I think right now Mag Blasts can give up to +20 advantage if I am not wrong, I think even Viscant said this frame advantage needs to be lowered. So yea I am for decreasing the block stun although I don't know if that would help much.
Karsticles
Member
Well, Chris should have Vajra.
Purification comes out in 32 frames, Magnum in 22. At worst Chris tends to trade, and it's not a good trade for Dormammu since Chris gets way more frame advantage off of a Magnum hit than Dormammu does off of Purification.
I've played against a lot of Chris players. Yours is the easiest to kill, and he stays on the ground all the time. That's all I really need to know. You also think Magneto is nigh impossible for Chris to handle, but RogueYoshi stomps FChamp's Magneto all the time. I think you just don't use most of his toolset.
That's the idea, though. Spencer's overhead is big and slow. If someone doesn't want to deal with a command grab, they can pushblock it. I'm not a fan of +0 on block for stuff because it just means everyone will be mashing tech throws.
Well no, I don't think it's nigh impossible. I said that is his worst matchup in the game. and it's not RogueYoshi, it's GCYoshi, Completely different coast players and they don't even use nearly the same characters. If you're going to cite information against me in a character I used to specialize in, "Please, try harder".
GCYoshi does do well, because he has a huge plethora of Magneto players to train against. But that doesn't mean the matchup is in Chris' favor.
How about just have it cause more pushback? Just enough so that it pushes them slightly out of throw range. I mean that's the main problem with the move... not the frame disadvantage. Spencer can deal with the frame disadvantage, he can't deal with the move pushing his body so close to the opponent that they can mash grab from it.
I would be OK with a hit box nerf if this happened.
But this should never happen. The whole point of the Spencer match up is that when he is in the air he can be anti aired, he can be pressured and he can be zoned. If he loses that... THAT'S when he becomes uncontrollable. Would allow him to beat match ups like Magneto and Zero. Would also give him one of the best get out of incoming mix up option in the game.
Karsticles
Member
Oh whatever, it's a Yoshi!
You can't give it more pushback because Armor Piercer only hits on frame 3 if the opponent is super close.
I bet you would be!
Who can anti-air Spencer? Aside from Magnetic Shockwave.
All of the sword normal characters for one. You either need a fast jab like Magneto or a big ass hit box launcher. It depends upon the approach and angle, some spots you can't anti air him.
My point is that the option would be removed completely with an air OK Bionic Arm. He does a random j.H, it whiffs you try to punish it and then he Bionic Arms you. It would change the game completely in Spencer's favor.
My point is that the option would be removed completely with an air OK Bionic Arm. He does a random j.H, it whiffs you try to punish it and then he Bionic Arms you. It would change the game completely in Spencer's favor.
That just leaves either picking +1 or 0. -1 doesn't fix the issue obviously so it has to be one of those values.
Karsticles
Member
I'm all about the +1 just so we don't have guard throw mashing. People can pushblock him if they're scared of the mix-up afterward.
I hate dumb Spencer players that convince people he's less good than he is. -_-
I would seriously use Spencer if not for two things:
1) His lines are really annoying and douchey "SO LONG SUCKER, HAH!"
2) He looks like an evolutionary ancestor to homo sapiens.
If they fixed his lines, I'd buy the DLC and main him all day. So good and relaxing to play. I got more perfects with him on my first day of using him than I have with Dormammu in the last year. Bolts of Balthakk is so good with him.
I've played plenty of good Spencers, and actually played one today. The bad ones get hit by those options, and the good ones are a bit trickier, but if you know the spots you can still anti-air him out of a lot of things. Stuff like zip + Bolts can still be anti-aired by Dante's cr.M. Trish can cr.M twice and force him to block. Strider's cr.M also anti-airs him, and if he has Formation B he can fire it and hit Strange and freely anti-air Spencer and what have you.
I have actually gone into the lab to find counters to every one of Spencer's options with almost all of his favorite assists. That's how I found out Dante's cr.L ducks under Hawkeye's arrows in the first place. He's good, but there are gaps in his offense.
Karsticles
Member
Congratulations on your sword normals.
I wish I had an option against his approach...like, anything.I'm in training mode right now, and what I've found is Dorm can actually cr.H anti-air Spencer underneath Bolts assist. He can also cr.M it if it's low enough, and can seem to beat out improperly timed zips + assists(namely Plasma/Unibeam and Triple Arrow). If it's really low to the ground, and he calls certain assists, Dorm can block the zip and s.M him as well as the assists. His s.L also seems to be able to anti-air him if it's raw. You'd have to experiment some on your own, and find out how they work in every situation via record/playback, but there are some options to look into at least.Congratulations on your sword normals.
The thing about Spencer is that if he zips, and you duck, he's always going to crossup. If you've got a crouching normal that hits behind you, his airzips aren't safe - even with Bolts. It's not a proper punish, as it only hits if he's mashing a button... but if he blocks, he loses momentum so it's still a win-win. Plus, 9/10 times Spencer is going to be mashing j.H anyways because he's not going to risk being thrown, and he also runs the chance of potentially hitting you if you mess up your timing.
Dorm does seem to have more trouble throwing him out of zip than other characters, though. I think it's his big ass hurtbox.
Karsticles
Member
Are you sure you have Spencer pushing buttons on the other end? Haha.
I know my options; it's usually not Bolts that I'm facing, though. Usually I have to deal with an arrow assist or Plasma Beam, and there's nothing that can be done about that.
It's borderline impossible to throw him out of the zip for Dormammu. It's even easier for Ghost Rider.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
How would this work? She doesn't have a double jump and the move puts her in the air. It's the same rules of Task not being able to jump after a mighty swing
The Mango Sentinel
Member
The Cat Spike M buff would actually be a nerf for me, haha. I use the fact that it will miss to cause crossups with assist and reset damage. With the other tools though, it wouldn't really make a difference.
Why the soft knockdown on Dancing Flash? I'd much rather them be in the air after the super. If I want soft knockdown then I just dhc on the kick before the uppercut portion.
Oh and Dahbomb, I was certain that Proton Cannon caused soft knockdown before the last hit, so I went and checked it. It does. Unless you want them in some super floaty spinning state or something.
Why the soft knockdown on Dancing Flash? I'd much rather them be in the air after the super. If I want soft knockdown then I just dhc on the kick before the uppercut portion.
Oh and Dahbomb, I was certain that Proton Cannon caused soft knockdown before the last hit, so I went and checked it. It does. Unless you want them in some super floaty spinning state or something.
I suppose he means before she leaves the ground during the move. Unless she's considered airborne at the very first frame. It's not something I've ever bothered checking.
Karsticles
Member
I was thinking that she would be able to jump-cancel it as long as it's hitting the character. Sort of like Chun-li's j.d+M.
Why would you want them to be in the air? Air throws are good, but command grab setups are better.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
^ this
Felicia is more command grab heavy than Haggar :lol
I guess that could work fine, would extend her combos and have the same results in the end. I had it go straight into delta kick to tone it down.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Because they can't tag out in the air.
I usually only use the super to finish people off. If i miscalculated and they're still alive then I like having them in the air for chip damage.
Karsticles
Member
I'm worried about Rolling Uppercut x Delta Kick creating too much pressure.
Delta Kick, get pushblocked, Rolling Uppercut x Delta Kick, repeat.
I figure that's the case.
I had him set to mash L and H in all my tests. L because it's his fastest air normal, H because it's the one with the best hitbox + OS. Outside a few mistakes on my part, beat him out almost all the time.
Didn't really test diagonal zips, just horizontal airzips.
Spencer + Triple Arrow is one of the more difficult ones to fight against, although I feel Unibeam is the worst of all. It really comes down to spacing and out maneuvering the zips, which Dorm definitely isn't going to be able to do.
Dante has some issues throwing Spencer because his airthrow range is ass, but I throw Spencer with Strider every single time. Strider's throw range is godlike.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Can we also get stupid Sentinel shit back
Check out that wicked ass body splash about 34 seconds in.
And the winning animation where he just puts fools in a bubble and abducts them
Gimme all dat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIMdztMlU9k
I think you could essentially do the same thing, it would just take better execution.
Karsticles
Member
There are still jump cancel frames to lessen the pressure.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
You can say that, but how hard is it to keep wolverine out once he's in on you in comparison
x-23/Jill/Wolverine are basically her counterpart characters.
The straight up delta kick would put her on par with them, but the jump cancel version? Puts her over them imo *this will lead to a bunch of wacky mix up shit think of the poor sentinels!*
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Shhh quiet. I started to realize this after my last post. Jump cancel into cat and mouse which can be special canceled now. Soooooo good
Karsticles
Member
Yipes winning every single Spencer matchup against Magneto and then choking kills me right now.
I'm okay with this.
I'm okay with this.
Are these the definitive changes you guys are giving her? if so, I want to address some issues.
The Ankle Slice buff that you guys gave her wouldn't work the way you guys want it to work. You guys wanted to give something like ground combo > air combo > otg > relaunch right? M after OTG would not work as the hitstun at that point would cause them to fall. H and S have the same frames so if you made OTG > S work, then you're looking at Doom footdive type combo in the corners that do way way more damage. S > TigerKnee Crescent Scythe > Talon Attack L > OTG > S repeat. x4-5 times
also in Ultimate, the only reason Ankle Slice > Weapon X doesn't connect is because of Weapon X comes out 1 or 2 frames too late. With the Ankle Slice + Weapon X buff, you could do Ankle Slice > Weapon X > Ankle Slice > Weapon X.
The way her superjump combo conversion works is you space your Talon Attack M so as to not go over them once it hits and to be above their abdomen so that M S will hit but as long as space the Talon attack M correctly, you will bring them low enough to combo on the ground so i dont see the slight hitstun increase on aerial normals being that big of a buff. What would help her out here is a bigger hitbox on her air normals; especially air.M. I've seen that normal whiff so much when my character is right next to theirs.
Untechable time after air and ground throws increased. YESS!!!!!
Talon Attack L (air) now causes a hard knockdown against aerial opponents. NOOOOO!!!
That would ruin her damaging combos on the ground and also she only has 1 version of Talon Attack which is air. QCF on the ground is Neck Slice. Now that i think about it this just kills all her ground combos.
900k seems fine for her health
Unless you guys were going to buff OTG to the point where S links, this is a nerf to X23
I like the idea to nerf bionic arm. No character should have a super like that if they have 1.1 mill health (I think, might be wrong) and can TOD like its nothing and etc.
Also, off-topic but I'm at work right now and I cut up some salmon and it straight smelled like shit, and now I'm starting to feel mad weird, like I'm starting to gag, I feel pressure on my upper back, my tongue has a weird taste to it and my head is sweating (might be cause of my hat but that usually doesn't happen), am I bugging out and overreacting or what?
It's going away now but what the fuck just happened lol.
Also, off-topic but I'm at work right now and I cut up some salmon and it straight smelled like shit, and now I'm starting to feel mad weird, like I'm starting to gag, I feel pressure on my upper back, my tongue has a weird taste to it and my head is sweating (might be cause of my hat but that usually doesn't happen), am I bugging out and overreacting or what?
It's going away now but what the fuck just happened lol.
Hey guys, I just wanted to comment on these Felicia changes.
Overall the list looks great and I can't think of anything that I would like to add to it
RE: Rolling Buckler being negative on hit:
-I don't have any issue with how it works currently. If you screw up and you don't get the follow up, then you deserve to get punished for it IMO.
How negative is it on hit currently? I wouldn't be opposed to making it less negative on hit, but not totally safe.
Not sure if this is necessary, but it is nice.
Nice, cat spike assist never seemed very useful. It's good to see it replaced with something better.
This is great. Should enable some crazy shit.
My DHC's thank you!!! (It'll be great to not have to DHC out of dancing flash early in order to get many supers to connect)
Not sure if this is needed, but I'm not complaining.
LOL, this is random but I like it! Being able to set up raw tag crumple setups with Felicia would be neat.
I feel like this might be too good.
Great.
Awesome, this was one of the main things I wanted in a patch.
Cool. It's already pretty good in the current game, but I approve of making all OTG assists closer to wesker's OTG Speed.
Can Delta Kick H assist hit high? Or would that be too much.
Overall the list looks great and I can't think of anything that I would like to add to it
RE: Rolling Buckler being negative on hit:
-I don't have any issue with how it works currently. If you screw up and you don't get the follow up, then you deserve to get punished for it IMO.
How negative is it on hit currently? I wouldn't be opposed to making it less negative on hit, but not totally safe.
Karsticles
Member
I can see that we made a bit of a mess of things. What would you recommend?
I hope you feel better.
Karsticles
Member
I'm worried about that too; do you have another suggestion for Rolling Uppercut?
Definitely too much IMO.
It's -32 on block according to the guide. IMO, if you fail to cancel Rolling Buckler, you deserve it. It's part of playing a difficult character. That's why Bold Cancel should cause problems for Dante, too.
I don't think it needs any changes. You can get full combos off of rolling uppercut with the right assists currently. (IE: Jam Session + Vajra... Probably more assists that I haven't thought of trying)
Plus you've already made neko punch great, so 2/3 rolling buckler follow ups being really useful is plenty. Rolling uppercut can remain useful, but only if you build your team in order to take advantage of it.
OK. I'm fine with this.
Agreed here as well.
The Talon L change was fixed. I don't know if Karst updated it but it's supposed to read:
*M/H Talon cancelable into Talon L. If canceled through other Talons it causes a hard knockdown, other wise it stays as it is (ie. doing Talon L after Crescent Scythe is the same as it is now)
This gives her easier super jump confirms while keeping her jump loop Talon combos and damage.
I am wary of giving Ankle Slice more hit stun because then she gets solo relaunch combos like Doom. The issue of Weapon X not connect after Slice is rectified by improving the start up of the hyper.
Mango Sentinel what happens when you do Proton Cannon XF Proton at mid screen?
*M/H Talon cancelable into Talon L. If canceled through other Talons it causes a hard knockdown, other wise it stays as it is (ie. doing Talon L after Crescent Scythe is the same as it is now)
This gives her easier super jump confirms while keeping her jump loop Talon combos and damage.
I am wary of giving Ankle Slice more hit stun because then she gets solo relaunch combos like Doom. The issue of Weapon X not connect after Slice is rectified by improving the start up of the hyper.
Mango Sentinel what happens when you do Proton Cannon XF Proton at mid screen?
Karsticles
Member
I want 3/3 inputs to have utility. That's always my goal. Same as Dormammu's Dark Spells. Everything should have a use as much as possible.
I didn't notice that fix; updated in my notes.
X-23:
*Ankle Slice now always OTGs; charged version start up time reduced to 30 frames and recovers fast enough to allow for a solo launch via s.L; cannot be canceled into Weapon X Prime; no longer staggers; assist version comes out in 35 frames.
*Rage Trigger now causes a soft knockdown.
*Weapon X Prime causes a hard knockdown.
*Slight hitstun increase on aerial normals.
*Untechable time after air and ground throws increased.
*M/H Talon cancelable into Talon L. If canceled through other Talons it causes a hard knockdown, other wise it stays as it is (ie. doing Talon L after Crescent Scythe is the same as it is now)
*Health changed to 900,000.
*X-23 is considered airborne for all frames of her Mirage Feint moves.
*Talon Attack M hitstun increased.
Assists: Crescent Scythe H, Ankle Slice, Neck Slice (Charged)
That feels sloppy, but I think it addresses all the problems.