Support NeoGAF

[Professor Beef]

Viewtiful Joe is a good example of another character Bionic Lancer completely shuts down. He can't even throw Voomerangs.

I can do Six Cannon since it has enough air invincibility to get past, but then I'm a sitting duck.

Speaking of which, I'd rather have air Six Machine cannon have invincibility up to the super flash. It's weird how it only has a few frames of invincibility, and then just stops.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Would it be too good, though? Would the pressure be too much?

The pressure could be too much. Since she can use different Delta Kicks and create some ridiculous crossups. You'd also have to specify whether she can cancel it on whiff.

And I definitely don't agree with the Bionic Arm nerf, and I've already stated several times how much I hate that move. It's a great utility against characters that are in his face at jump height. He can't do much with his slow ass normals. THC is one of the few ways that Spencer can keep Mags honest. And you're kinda dooming him to Frank West now.

Viewtiful Joe is a good example of another character Bionic Lancer completely shuts down. He can't even throw Voomerangs.

Wait what?!?!?! No no no. That is one of the matchups I am 110% confident in. Joe runs that shit

 

[Dahbomb]

LOL @ Spencer shutting down Joe... what a joke.

When I played Vergil there was only one character that I respected and that was Spencer. Soon I realized that just like any fighting game character with a good but punishable option you learn to bait stuff... once that happened it was a clean match up.

Spencer punishes bad players and bad plays.

 

[Karsticles]

I can do Six Cannon since it has enough air invincibility to get past, but then I'm a sitting duck.

Speaking of which, I'd rather have air Six Machine cannon have invincibility up to the super flash. It's weird how it only has a few frames of invincibility, and then just stops.

A few moves are like this; I don't think Six Machine is supposed to be a reversal, I think it's just supposed to help him beat a few moves out.

She Hulk in Vanilla got wins because of Tron assist and because people weren't good at the game. She became obsolete the day Flocker put Zero in front of Tron with Phoenix and no one could touch him. She Hulk also performed because a lot of the characters beyond top 15 were garbage. Do you guys remember Vanilla Thor, Cap, Ryu and Chun LI? Absolutely trash characters.

Joe gets shut down by Spencer? Nice troll considering that's one of his worst match ups. Joe owns Arm with Dodge and Mach Speed.

Yeah, I know all those top Viewtiful Joe players sit on the ground throwing Voomerangs.

The pressure could be too much. Since she can use different Delta Kicks and create some ridiculous crossups. You'd also have to specify whether she can cancel it on whiff.

And I definitely don't agree with the Bionic Arm nerf, and I've already stated several times how much I hate that move. It's a great utility against characters that are in his face at jump height. He can't do much with his slow ass normals. THC is one of the few ways that Spencer can keep Mags honest. And you're kinda dooming him to Frank West now.

Definitely no cancel on whiff. I think the pressure would be too much, thinking about it more...what else could Rolling Uppercut do, though?

And I'm fine with Bionic Lancer connecting at around his face level. I'm talking about how it hits a whole character length above him. That's just ridiculous and needs to go.

LOL @ Spencer shutting down Joe... what a joke.

Most Spencer players don't have the balls to Bionic Lancer to open people up. They wait to punish something like fools. The move is ridiculously good.

 

[Zissou]

She Hulk in Vanilla got wins because of Tron assist and because people weren't good at the game. She became obsolete the day Flocker put Zero in front of Tron with Phoenix and no one could touch him. She Hulk also performed because a lot of the characters beyond top 15 were garbage. Do you guys remember Vanilla Thor, Cap, Ryu and Chun LI? Absolutely trash characters.

Agree with this 100%.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

I can do Six Cannon since it has enough air invincibility to get past, but then I'm a sitting duck.

Speaking of which, I'd rather have air Six Machine cannon have invincibility up to the super flash. It's weird how it only has a few frames of invincibility, and then just stops.

I kinda agree, but then he'd have two completely invincible supers. He needs to be somewhat vulnerable in the air. I can't imagine the rage I would cause if every time someone did a super, I just killed them with Six Cannon dhc Ice Storm.

No supers for you lolololol. It kinda already is like that when I run that team against most teams. No supers, no assists.

 

[Frantic]

Magneto's Hypergrav does 50k x 2, so if anything just lower it to 40k x 2.

Also, Spencer's hitbox on Bionic Lancer isn't that huge. It's just the janky ass hurtboxes of characters that makes it seem larger than it actually is. Hitbox for reference..

 

[Karsticles]

The best She-Hulk didn't even use Gustaff Fire.

Do people really want to go back to this boredom? :-(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sOMUh7_Dn0

Magneto's Hypergrav does 50k x 2, so if anything just lower it to 40k x 2.

Also, Spencer's hitbox on Bionic Lancer isn't that huge. It's just the janky ass hurtboxes of characters that makes it seem larger than it actually is. Hitbox for reference..

Nerf it.

 

[Dahbomb]

Joe can sit on the ground and Spencer can't do any thing against him or play at SJ height. Play the match up before asking for nerfs. You don't need to IAD spam Voomerang on auto pilot to win every match. Next thing you are gonna tell me that Morrigan players can't do anything against Spencer.

If we start nerfing moves because the hit box is too good we would be here all day and we would exhaust 10 slots just on hit box changes. So much stuff hits behind itself that it makes Bionic Arm look fair and balanced.

FR Vanilla was hype. Don't hate Karst, know your roots!

 

[Sigmaah]

I'm just joking around. I know you don't use Zero. I just mean that Ranked is really boring and everyone tier whores the same few team setups. Plus it's primarily comprised of douchebags and laggers.

Only part you're right about is laggers. I play many interesting and unique teams in ranked. What you mean by douchebags? teabaggers?

 

[Frantic]

If we start nerfing moves because the hit box is too good we would be here all day and we would exhaust 10 slots just on hit box changes. So much stuff hits behind it that it makes Bionic Arm look fair and balanced.

why was this never addressed

 

[Karsticles]

Joe can sit on the ground and Spencer can't do any thing against him or play at SJ height. Play the match up before asking for nerfs. You don't need to IAD spam Voomerang on auto pilot to win every match. Next thing you are gonna tell me that Morrigan players can't do anything against Spencer.

If we start nerfing moves because the hit box is too good we would be here all day and we would exhaust 10 slots just on hit box changes. So much stuff hits behind it that it makes Bionic Arm look fair and balanced.

FR Vanilla was hype. Don't hate Karst, know your roots!

Oh my god, She-Hulk mirrors were the worst. I died inside every time it came on.

And Spencer can, y'know, approach Joe with an assist while he's on the ground.

Spencer remains the most brain dead retarded character in this game. He takes absolutely no thought or skill to play in the neutral. Bionic Lancer is just the biggest symptom of the problem.

Only part you're right about is lagger. I play many interesting and unique teams in ranked. What you mean by douchebags? teabaggers?

Teabaggers.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Oh my god, She-Hulk mirrors were the worst. I died inside every time it came on.

And Spencer can, y'know, approach Joe with an assist while he's on the ground.

Spencer remains the most brain dead retarded character in this game. He takes absolutely no thought or skill to play in the neutral. Bionic Lancer is just the biggest symptom of the problem.


Teabaggers.

Wolverine is way more brain dead than Spencer. Shitty Spencers are easy to dispose of. Shitty Wolverines are still dangerous.......and I fucking hate that so much. Hell, sometimes I'm more scared of shit Wolvies than good Wolvies.

 

[Dahbomb]

Good Spencer play requires finesse now, if he was so braindead he would win every tournament. He's figured out. Please go against a good player and try to zip line in without thought or try to mash Bionic Arm.

Both Wolverine and Vergil are more brain dead. Even Wesker requires finesse now. At the highest of levels you still need a top level Wolverine to survive but everyone is getting by on mediocre Vergils.

 

[FSLink]

Wolverine is way more brain dead than Spencer. Shitty Spencers are easy to dispose of. Shitty Wolverines are still dangerous.......and I fucking hate that so much. Hell, sometimes I'm more scared of shit Wolvies than good Wolvies.

Agreed. I really don't feel Bionic Arm is a huge problem, especially against Viewtiful Joe, lol

 

[Frantic]

Hell, sometimes I'm more scared of shit Wolvies than good Wolvies.

I am always more afraid of shitty players than good players. They don't give a fuck. Ever. It's why I'd be more afraid playing against PR Rog than any other top player. He does not give a fuck.

"XF3 + DT Rapid Slash x 10, even when you're in the air the entire time"

STOP IT YOU'RE SCARING ME

 

[Karsticles]

Wolverine is way more brain dead than Spencer. Shitty Spencers are easy to dispose of. Shitty Wolverines are still dangerous.......and I fucking hate that so much. Hell, sometimes I'm more scared of shit Wolvies than good Wolvies.

Spencer gets in on keepaway for free. No matter the opponent, he just taps zip line and - look at that, frame advantage and the top half of the screen is cut off!

Good Spencer play requires finesse now, if he was so braindead he would win every tournament. He's figured out. Please go against a good player and try to zip line in without thought.

Both Wolverine and Vergil are more brain dead. Even Wesker requires finesse now. At the highest of levels you still need a top level Wolverine to survive but everyone is getting by on mediocre Vergils.

I watched Nemo do those thoughtless zip lines for 60 matches. I guess Spencer is so figured out that he just happened to be on the team that beat two of the best in the world 20-10.

Bionic Lancer's current state makes him less thoughtful than he should be. It needs to get toned down. The very notion of an invincible move leading to full combos from that distance is absurd, and that it hits characters at max jump height is even worse.

It's not okay that keepaway characters can't do anything against Spencer from 3/4ths screen or less away because of that move. The zip line is already bad enough to deal with.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

I am always more afraid of shitty players than good players. They don't give a fuck. Ever. It's why I'd be more afraid playing against PR Rog than any other top player. He does not give a fuck.

"XF3 + DT Rapid Slash x 10, even when you're in the air the entire time"

STOP IT YOU'RE SCARING ME

Hahahaha.

I don't think there has ever been a fighting game before SF4 and MvC3 released where I feared randomness more than legit play. Seriously....wtf Cacpcom

 

[FSLink]

I watched Nemo do those thoughtless zip lines for 60 matches. I guess Spencer is so figured out that he just happened to be on the team that beat two of the best in the world 20-10.

I would contribute it more to Bolts assist. Bolts is godlike for Spencer.

 

[Professor Beef]

Spencer gets in on keepaway for free. No matter the opponent, he just taps zip line and - look at that, frame advantage and the top half of the screen is cut off!

It's precisely why I hate fighting Spencer. Assist call + zipline means Spencer gets in for free unless I feel like burning a meter. It's asinine.

 

[Dahbomb]

Oh my god this is like the 10th time you have brought up Nemo.

Nemo out played those two and broke them down systematically by exploiting their habits. His play with all characters was top notch and he made mostly immaculate reads. Stop blaming the god damn characters and give props to the player.

And Bolts was doing most of the work in those sets, there was no random or thoughtless zipline going on. He went in when Bolts were active then went out. His movement with the character on the ground was phenomenal, his hit confirms even the hard ones were clean, his throw game was superior and his set ups were optimized and air tight.

But nah... its the brain dead characters doing brain dead shit winning against top players.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Spencer gets in on keepaway for free. No matter the opponent, he just taps zip line and - look at that, frame advantage and the top half of the screen is cut off!


I watched Nemo do those thoughtless zip lines for 60 matches. I guess Spencer is so figured out that he just happened to be on the team that beat two of the best in the world 20-10.

Bionic Lancer's current state makes him less thoughtful than he should be. It needs to get toned down. The very notion of an invincible move leading to full combos from that distance is absurd, and that it hits characters at max jump height is even worse.

It's not okay that keepaway characters can't do anything against Spencer from 3/4ths screen or less away because of that move. The zip line is already bad enough to deal with.

Spencer's zips are not safe at all. Even his ground zips on hit aren't safe. People just seem to not do shit about it.

 

[Dahbomb]

When the fuck was Spencer positive on block from zip line? Naked zip lines on ground punishable and many approaches are throwable. You only zipline with an assist or at proper angles.

I guess I should start complaining as a Vergil player because Bionic Arm goes through Spiral Sword and he blows through all my block strings. And he gets to pressure me for free with those OP zip lines! Oh noes... what am I a poor low tier Vergil supposed to do against this immensely broken and brain dead character? I have no options!

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Is that one Spider-Man change listed on the front page a nerf? If so, why?

And can Crawler Assault otg....it would be a start to getting more people to play him. I don't play him because it's hard to find a character I like that can dhc off of Maximum Spider.

 

[JeTmAn81]

Spencer's zips aren't safe at all. He has to time his assist with the air zip perfectly or he gets air thrown. He is in no way a braindead character. Unscaled upgrapple, though? That's just dumb.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yea UWG is definitely dumb, its getting nerfed like it should be. The biggest problem with the character has always been his damage, otherwise he is fine.

 

[Azure J]

I am always more afraid of shitty players than good players. They don't give a fuck. Ever. It's why I'd be more afraid playing against PR Rog than any other top player. He does not give a fuck.

"XF3 + DT Rapid Slash x 10, even when you're in the air the entire time"

STOP IT YOU'RE SCARING ME

I was playing Ranked today after a long time away from the mode and got to my highest rank ever (7th Lord LOL) before running into a series of high ranking people that did the absolute weirdest shit ever I swear. One set, the guy is using j.Ls on me in an air combo and literally running around with Taskmaster doing nothing but Spidey-Spidey Swing and full screen Shield Skills having me think he doesn't have certain conversions only to take the game because "welp, he has throw into arrows I guess", the other one is a Wolverine/Morrigan/Phoenix team that lames out with superjump divekick (the single weirdest moment was the realization that he WASN'T ever going to go HAM with Wolvy) and then another guy comes along and wins a set with Hulk/Hidden Missiles/Phoenix because apparently, Photon Shot is oppressive as fuck to deal with online. :lol

Then as if to add insult to injury, I played against a super legit Captain America/Wesker/Trish team that led to me playing anchor Dante vs. his Cap and when I thought he was a nut, he comes along and guard cancels me in between the style cancel from Reverb to Fireworks. Only excellent players know about that punish.

 

[Frantic]

You can punish all of Spencer's zips, and even his assisted ones need to be adjusted to be tight. I throw Spencers out of Bolts a lot because you can't just call Bolts + zip. You have to time the assist + zip, but no one actually does because they think they're invincible, because people are too afraid to challenge that shit to prove they are not. Zip + assist is good, but it's not without counters. It's also no more braindead than Berserker Slash + assist or teleport + assist.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Yea UWG is definitely dumb, its getting nerfed like it should be. The biggest problem with the character has always been his damage, otherwise he is fine.

Bummer

Also what are some decent dhc's from Maximum Spider? I've just been using Ice Storm because I really like Storm.

 

[Dahbomb]

The funny part is that for a rushdown character Spencer's up close normals aren't even good. He basically gets all his mileage by j.H. The good players need very precise and timed button presses on his normals because they are slow with mediocre recovery. People cry about Dante's normals, Spencer has a 7 frame cr.L with a 6 frame st.L and they have mediocre range. Most of the zoning characters he is trying to rushdown have faster normals than him.

You mean DHC out of Maximum Spider or into Maximum Spider. Into a lot of hypers can DHC into Max Spider but the other way around is tricker (going from Max Spider to another hyper).

Plasma Storm, Sphere Flame, Proton Camnon, Rekkoha should work.

 

[Karsticles]

It's precisely why I hate fighting Spencer. Assist call + zipline means Spencer gets in for free unless I feel like burning a meter. It's asinine.

Not to mention the air throw he somehow gets on you if you block, how you get trapped in by the instant full-screen line, and then he gets an ambiguous cross-up. There's so much derp contained in that one move.

Oh my god this is like the 10th time you have brought up Nemo.

What else should I do when you say bullshit like "Spencer has been figured out"? Not cite obvious evidence to the contrary?

Nemo out played those two and broke them down systematically by exploiting their habits. His play with all characters was top notch and he made mostly immaculate reads. Stop blaming the god damn characters and give props to the player.

And Bolts was doing most of the work in those sets, there was no random or thoughtless zipline going on. He went in when Bolts were active then went out. His movement with the character on the ground was phenomenal, his hit confirms even the hard ones were clean, his throw game was superior and his set ups were optimized and air tight.

But nah... its the brain dead characters doing brain dead shit winning against top players.

Yeah, he zipped with the assist behind him. Pushing those three buttons to get in for free takes a lot of thought and skill.

I'm not saying Nemo isn't godlike at the game. But clearly the character isn't figured out when he's bopping top players.

Spencer's zips are not safe at all. Even his ground zips on hit aren't safe. People just seem to not do shit about it.

When the fuck was Spencer positive on block from zip line? Naked zip lines on ground punishable and many approaches are throwable. You only zipline with an assist or at proper angles.

What? Spencer is positive on block on his aerial zips. The guide even says it's +8 on block. Real match experiences bear that out to be true; I know I've mashed throw plenty of times thinking that it just can't be true because he came from so far away and got in so free. The ground zips are negative on block, no doubt.

I guess I should start complaining as a Vergil player because Bionic Arm goes through Spiral Sword and he blows through all my block strings. And he gets to pressure me for free with those OP zip lines! Oh noes... what am I a poor low tier Vergil supposed to do against this immensely broken and brain dead character? I have no options!

Devil Trigger and abuse those invincibility frames! Oh wait.

Vergil can play footsies with Spencer. Dormammu can't. Let's take a look at Dormammu's moveset and what Spencer can do in response:
1) Flame Carpet? Bionic Lancer.
2) Tridash attack? Bionic Lancer.
3) Dark Hole? Bionic Lancer.
4) Purification? Bionic Lancer.
5) Dark Matter? Bionic Lancer.
6) Chaotic Flame? Bionic Lancer.
7) Stalking Flare? Bionic Lancer.

Dormammu basically has to spam teleports against Spencer and hope an assist crosses him up, because it's the only hope he has. Bionic Lancer counters everything in a keepaway character's moveset. It's no different when compared against Hawkeye, for example. Bionic Lancer plows through everything he can do, and Hawkeye has to actually try and play footsies with Spencer - hahaha.

If Bionic Lancer didn't hit so high, Hawkeye would be able to do jump arrows with some degree of safety. Dormammu could try and rush him. Dr. Strange...would still be fucked. Ghost Rider could jump over Bionic Lancer and time his j.S properly.

It's not even like I'm asking for a crazy nerf here. I just want it to not hit characters at peak jump height! You all make it sound like it's reasonable for Spencer to be able to shut anything down on reaction and get full combos off of it, too.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Yeah I meant going into another character. I'm thinking about trying Dante cause maybe I can get some interesting stuff from Maximum Spider into Devil Trigger.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Not to mention the air throw he somehow gets on you if you block, how you get trapped in by the instant full-screen line, and then he gets an ambiguous cross-up. There's so much derp contained in that one move.


What else should I do when you say bullshit like "Spencer has been figured out"? Not cite obvious evidence to the contrary?


Yeah, he zipped with the assist behind him. Pushing those three buttons to get in for free takes a lot of thought and skill.

I'm not saying Nemo isn't godlike at the game. But clearly the character isn't figured out when he's bopping top players.



What? Spencer is positive on block on his aerial zips. The guide even says it's +8 on block. Real match experiences bear that out to be true; I know I've mashed throw plenty of times thinking that it just can't be true because he came from so far away and got in so free. The ground zips are negative on block, no doubt.


Devil Trigger and abuse those invincibility frames! Oh wait.

Vergil can play footsies with Spencer. Dormammu can't. Let's take a look at Dormammu's moveset and what Spencer can do in response:
1) Flame Carpet? Bionic Lancer.
2) Tridash attack? Bionic Lancer.
3) Dark Hole? Bionic Lancer.
4) Purification? Bionic Lancer.
5) Dark Matter? Bionic Lancer.
6) Chaotic Flame? Bionic Lancer.
7) Stalking Flare? Bionic Lancer.

Dormammu basically has to spam teleports against Spencer and hope an assist crosses him up, because it's the only hope he has. Bionic Lancer counters everything in a keepaway character's moveset. It's no different when compared against Hawkeye, for example. Bionic Lancer plows through everything he can do, and Hawkeye has to actually try and play footsies with Spencer - hahaha.

If Bionic Lancer didn't hit so high, Hawkeye would be able to do jump arrows with some degree of safety. Dormammu could try and rush him. Dr. Strange...would still be fucked. Ghost Rider could jump over Bionic Lancer and time his j.S properly.

It's not even like I'm asking for a crazy nerf here. I just want it to not hit characters at peak jump height! You all make it sound like it's reasonable for Spencer to be able to shut anything down on reaction and get full combos off of it, too.

Haha, I was gonna ask if the Spencer salt was because you play Dorm. Yes I know you mentioned other characters, but still. Playing Dorm is the reason I made that Dark Dimension lvl 1 suggestion, even though you said everyone else would shut it down. It's for that matchup specifically! I'd even take 150k damage. I just wanna stop getting Bionic Armed. I still wouldn't nerf it though.....it's just something you have to deal with. I just try to bait one out. Even if I do though....it's xf time with Spencer! And that can be quite scary.


And his air zip is damn easy to grab if the Spencer player isn't careful.

 

[Dahbomb]

How about you cite actual tournament data? You will then see how not that great Spencer has been performing... worse than even Wesker. No Spencer in top 8. Even in Japan Nemo does not win tournaments that much.

Stop looking at everything from Dorm's perspective. There's way more characters that Spencer loses to than Dorm does. Bionic Arm is not safe, bait it out or XF cancel your move to force him to make a hard choice. Once he has no meter go and rush him down, he has bad normals and no defensive options. He absolutely needs every ounce of that Bionic Arm.

If you could tri dash rushdown Spencer over Bionic Arm this character would be Mid tier at best. That's how important that hit box is. Its the difference between him losing badly to Magneto in the match up or having a fighting chance.

 

[QisTopTier]

Joe
Duration of slow reduced by 40%
slow goes away if joe is hit
Slow now knocks down
Charged voommarang now travels 20% faster damage, increased by 30%, hits only once, tracking improved, Durability increased by 2, charge time reduced 20%
Noncharged Voommarang Durability reduced by 2
red hot kick otg's
bomb explodes 30% sooner

 

[Karsticles]

Haha, I was gonna ask if the Spencer salt was because you play Dorm. Yes I know you mentioned other characters, but still. Playing Dorm is the reason I made that Dark Dimension lvl 1 suggestion, even though you said everyone else would shut it down. It's for that matchup specifically! I'd even take 150k damage. I just wanna stop getting Bionic Armed. I still wouldn't nerf it though.....it's just something you have to deal with. I just try to bait one out. Even if I do though....it's xf time with Spencer! And that can be quite scary.

It's not just Dormammu. I use him as an example to make points because I'm most familiar with him, which leads everyone to think I'm only thinking about the game from Dormammu's perspective. Like Dahbomb is.

And his air zip is damn easy to grab if the Spencer player isn't careful.

If by "isn't careful" you mean "doesn't call an assist", then yeah.

How about you cite actual tournament data? You will then see how not that great Spencer has been performing... worse than even Wesker. No Spencer in top 8. Even in Japan Nemo does not win tournaments that much.

I cited two moneymatches with some of the best in the world. Tournament data just shows what the characters are popular, not what characters are good. There are only two noteworthy Spencer players in the west. One of them is forbidden from playing in tournaments now, and the other is Yipes, who drops the ball so much he must think there's a monetary prize for the greatest number of fumbles in a year. Knives is also pretty good, but his team leaves something to be desired.

Stop looking at everything from Dorm's perspective. There's way more characters that Spencer loses to than Dorm does. Bionic Arm is not safe, bait it out or XF cancel your move to force him to make a hard choice. Once he has no meter go and rush him down, he has bad normals and no defensive options. He absolutely needs every ounce of that Bionic Arm.

LOL. Tell me how to bait Bionic Lancer with Dormammu. Should I shuffle forward a little bit with my ground dashes? Throw out a few c.Ls?

And Spencer does NOT have no defensive options. For fucks sake, he has a 1 frame armor bouncing move. What the hell is wrong with you. Spencer can also wire grapple characters from all over the screen, so Dormammu can't even fly away because a grab is coming for him.

I'm just using Dormammu as an example. And I used a lot of other examples, too. If I was really biased, I would be hating all over everything Spencer does since it's so free and stupid. But I'm just talking about making the vertical hitbox on Bionic Lancer a little lower so he can't hit people are maximum goddamn jump height with it, and then get a full combo as a result, all while being invincible for 1-bar. And if he uses Sentinel, then Sentinel Force will protect him if he gets blocked - yay.

Spencer can still use Bionic Lancer as a way to stop tridashers - I'm not saying remove the vertical hitbox completely. I'm saying that it should not reach all the way to maximum jump height.

Joe
Duration of slow reduced by 40%
slow goes away if joe is hit
Slow now knocks down
Charged voommarang now travels 20% faster damage, increased by 30%, hits only once, tracking improved, Durability increased by 2
Noncharged Voommarang Durability reduced by 2
red hot kick otg's
bomb explodes 30% sooner

What is this pile of randomness?

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

It's not just Dormammu. I use him as an example to make points because I'm most familiar with him, which leads everyone to think I'm only thinking about the game from Dormammu's perspective. Like Dahbomb is.


If by "isn't careful" you mean "doesn't call an assist", then yeah.




LOL. Tell me how to bait Bionic Lancer with Dormammu. Should I shuffle forward a little bit with my ground dashes? Throw out a few c.Ls?

And Spencer does NOT have no defensive options. For fucks sake, he has a 1 frame armor bouncing move. What the hell is wrong with you. Spencer can also wire grapple characters from all over the screen, so Dormammu can't even fly away because a grab is coming for him.



Spencer can still use Bionic Lancer as a way to stop tridashers - I'm not saying remove the vertical hitbox completely. I'm saying that it should not reach all the way to maximum jump height.

I know you aren't just doing this through Dorm's eyes, and I respect that.

Any character can get in with assists -_-
I made a mention of Ryu not being prone during tatsu's as a way to get in better and you said he can get in fine with assists....which is true, I suppose....and it goes for pretty much any character.
And if Spencer even slightly fucks up with his assist call you can grab him. Hawkeye is one of the only sure ways that Spencer won't get grabbed.

Bait him using a super. Either works. I much prefer to use Stalking Flare if I can make the space.

EDIT: Oh and Frantic showed a video that Bionic Arm's hitbox isn't even that big. I know I've missed when people just jump and not press any buttons. Just once a button is pressed, you're fucked.

 

[Face it Tiger..]

The best She-Hulk didn't even use Gustaff Fire.

Do people really want to go back to this boredom? :-(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sOMUh7_Dn0


Nerf it.

Fuck you, IF I COULD I WOULD

 

[QisTopTier]

What is this pile of randomness?

A fuck ton of nerfs/changes

 

[Professor Beef]

What is this pile of randomness?

He's still salty about the games we played last night, lol.

 

[QisTopTier]

He's still salty about the games we played last night, lol.

Well that and preventing him from being extremely stupid in a version where range is stronger than before with even more good assist available to him

 

[vg260]

Some Spider-Man suggestions:

Switch spider swing motion with web throw. RDP for web swing is unnecessarily awkward in combos. Web swing should be QCB. Taskmaster gets the same move with a directional attack. Web throw is more likely to be used as a standalone move where RDP motion is better suited.

Better OTG. Not sure the best way to implement, but the timing and spacing are super strict. Compared to other OTGs, it just adds another layer of execution difficulty.

Perhaps make the L, M, and H +S zip moves have different properties depending on the strength. Maybe keep L+S as-is and make H+S track to a grounded opponent for an OTG.

Give Maximum Spider projectile invulernability. Also, recovery time is brutal for how easily it gets beat out. Again, another character has a similar move but better (Wesker). It seems just awful outside of combo enders. Anything, please.

A slight health bump would be nice. He's a liitle too delicate.

I feel like he just needs to be scrapped and redesigned from scratch. His original design worked ok for MSH, but was really limited by the engines of the time. Not gonna happen, obviously.

 

[Dahbomb]

And Spencer does NOT have no defensive options. For fucks sake, he has a 1 frame armor bouncing move. What the hell is wrong with you. Spencer can also wire grapple characters from all over the screen, so Dormammu can't even fly away because a grab is coming for him.

Armor piercer is not a 1 frame move, check your frame data. And it's ALSO unsafe on block.

Your list of specials that beat out to Bionic Arm is kinda useless. That's like me listing every single move of Vergil that loses to Bionic Arm (because they do, every single one of Vergil's moves loses to Bionic Arm). Obviously a fucking 1 meter invincible move is going to beat out a special... Chaotic Flame beats out Bionic Arm at full screen where you should be using the move. You might as well list all the moves of Dorm that get beat by EX Thunder Knuckle. No one cares, it's one meter vs no meter moves and they are punishable means a proper read has to be made. What's more annoying is a special move beating out hypers and all options of a character... that is what happens with Spencer vs Joe where a V Dodge basically negates 99% of Spencer's options. And the V Dodge is not even that unsafe which is what is more annoying than an unsafe 1 meter usage move.


And back to tournament data... all of a sudden now you are discounting all the other Spencer players at tournaments ALL YEAR LONG but only focusing on Nemo to prove the character's strength? Why do you then flip the argument when Morrigan or Dormammu are involved? Any time someone says anything about Morrigan you are quick to point out "oh but it's only ChrisG who is doing it right... the character is fine". Well guess what... you can use your own argument here "oh but it's only Nemo who is doing it right". Maybe playing the character is not as easy as you make it sound if only one player is getting wins over top players.

I would also remind you again that in the set it was mostly Nova plus Bolts doing work. Nova got most of the kills (combined with Strange Loops), Nemo didn't have to rely on Spencer that much. Plus of course the Bolts factor. You are always quick to dismiss dominant Morrigan play because "oh its Missiles doing work" well guess what... it's the same shit here. Bolts is basically a double beam assist for a character like Nova and Spencer... they thrive on it. Neither FChamp nor ChrisG were clearly prepared for this but Nemo had down his homework. His punishes of assists, his match up knowledge and ESPECIALLY his player knowledge was what allowed that dominant performance to happen. He knew what the other player was going to do before they did it. This was not character strength, this was player strength.

Duration of slow reduced by 40%
slow goes away if joe is hit
Slow now knocks down
Charged voommarang now travels 20% faster damage, increased by 30%, hits only once, tracking improved, Durability increased by 2
Noncharged Voommarang Durability reduced by 2
red hot kick otg's
bomb explodes 30% sooner

We are honestly only adding Prof Beef's changing and going to debate on actually giving him more damage. Those nerfs are unwarranted, keep the salt levels at minimum please.

 

[Sigmaah]

What spencer player is forbidden from playing in tournaments?

 

[Dahbomb]

What spencer player is forbidden from playing in tournaments?

He means Combofiend.

Probably going to talk about Felicia and Joe tomorrow. Need to get some sleep first. Also need to wash off this Spencer salt.

 

[Sigmaah]

He means Combofiend.

Oh alright, thanks!

Kinda curious, what do you guys think the best themes are in this game?

For me it's Vergils theme because omfg it just sounds so epic and amazing ahhhhhh I could listen to that shit all day. I also really like Doctor Dooms theme. Shit sounds so beautiful.

 

[FSLink]

Oh alright, thanks!

Kinda curious, what do you guys think the best themes are in this game?

For me it's Vergils theme because omfg it just sounds so epic and amazing ahhhhhh I could listen to that shit all day. I also really like Doctor Dooms theme. Shit sounds so beautiful.

Dr. Strange's theme is amazing.

 

[Karsticles]

Armor piercer is not a 1 frame move, check your frame data. And it's ALSO unsafe on block.

Whatever, 3 frames. I'd kill for a move like that. First you try to convince me that he's "figured out" despite beating two of the best players in the world in a long set,and then you try and convince me that he has no defensive abilities even though he has two great defensive moves. They're both ignorant points.

Your list of specials that beat out to Bionic Arm is kinda useless. That's like me listing every single move of Vergil that loses to Bionic Arm (because they do, every single one of Vergil's moves loses to Bionic Arm). Obviously a fucking 1 meter invincible move is going to beat out a special... Chaotic Flame beats out Bionic Arm at full screen where you should be using the move. You might as well list all the moves of Dorm that get beat by EX Thunder Knuckle. No one cares, it's one meter vs no meter moves and they are punishable means a proper read has to be made.

If only Vergil could play footsies on the ground to make Bionic Lancer an unappealing option...I really hate making the same damn point twice, but I will anyway. Dormammu can only move through the air, which means that even his basic movement is punishable by Spencer and he gets a full combo as a result. Dormammu can't even fucking land safely against him since he needs to j.S to land. Vergil can play a footsies game that makes it highly risky for Spencer to throw a random Bionic Lancer out. On the other hand, Dormammu can't play a safe game against Spencer, because Dormammu has no safe anything against him. All I'm saying is that the Bionic Lancer should be a liiiiiiiitle more difficult to land as a punishment for me trying to move at all during the match.

And back to tournament data... all of a sudden now you are discounting all the other Spencer players at tournaments ALL YEAR LONG but only focusing on Nemo to prove the character's strength? Why do you then flip the argument when Morrigan or Dormammu are involved? Any time someone says anything about Morrigan you are quick to point out "oh but it's only ChrisG who is doing it right... the character is fine". Well guess what... you can use your own argument here "oh but it's only Nemo who is doing it right". Maybe playing the character is not as easy as you make it sound if only one player is getting wins over top players.

Um, no. I am quick to point out that Morrigan only does well with Hidden Missiles as an argument that the problem is truly with Hidden Missiles. You must have confused me with ShadyK.

I would also remind you again that in the set it was mostly Nova plus Bolts doing work. Nova got most of the kills (combined with Strange Loops), Nemo didn't have to rely on Spencer that much. Plus of course the Bolts factor. You are always quick to dismiss dominant Morrigan play because "oh its Missiles doing work" well guess what... it's the same shit here. Bolts is basically a double beam assist for a character like Nova and Spencer... they thrive on it. Neither FChamp nor ChrisG were clearly prepared for this but Nemo had down his homework. His punishes of assists, his match up knowledge and ESPECIALLY his player knowledge was what allowed that dominant performance to happen. He knew what the other player was going to do before they did it. This was not character strength, this was player strength.

EXCELLENT, we are getting somewhere now!

So, if Morrigan + Missiles is OP, we...guess what? NERF ONE. And here we nerfed BOTH!

Now, apparently Spencer + Bolts is also OP; so OP that it beats the above OP combination 20-10! Answer...what? Nerf Bolts? I hope not.

What spencer player is forbidden from playing in tournaments?

ComboFiend, the best Spencer player in the USA.

Oh alright, thanks!

Kinda curious, what do you guys think the best themes are in this game?

For me it's Vergils theme because omfg it just sounds so epic and amazing ahhhhhh I could listen to that shit all day. I also really like Doctor Dooms theme. Shit sounds so beautiful.

Best themes:
Arthur
Firebrand
Deadpool
Magneto

The techno remix crap most of the characters have is ass.

 

[Frantic]

This Spencer argument is dumb and going in a completely different direction than it started in.

...


...

But honestly, I want zip slowed down a little bit. As a vanilla Spencer player, faster zip still feels weird to me. It's like a completely different character to me and I still can't play new Spence all that well. >_>

 

[Karsticles]

This Spencer argument is dumb and going in a completely different direction than it started in.

...


...

But honestly, I want zip slowed down a little bit. As a vanilla Spencer player, faster zip still feels weird to me. It's like a completely different character to me and I still can't play new Spence all that well. >_>

I completely forgot how outraged I was when I found out that Spencer's 100% free in with frame advantage actually got a buff in Ultimate. He's such a blur of bullshit it's easy to forget this stuff, I guess.

It's probably better for the pace of the game that it remains as-is. I can't think of a good argument for making the move slower. It just means more time in blockstun watching him come toward you for his free blockstring.