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[liger05]

fcuk the Arab League. Dont start complaining now when you authorised military action in the first place.

The Arab Leage could of dealt with this easily weeks ago. Egypt has more than enough capabilities to sort this mess out but did nothing.

Just another example of the Arab League's incompetence in dealing with internal matters.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Adam Bolton has just said Mussa of the Arab League says he was misquoted earlier. So no AL condemnation after all, that or the Saudi's told him to get on his bike.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Anyone see the BBC reporter in London interrupted by some asshole? The guy - middle class and English - actually says something to the effect of "victory for Libya, death to British imperialists". They cut him off pretty quickly, but "victory for Libya"?? The regime of Gadaffi?

I consider myself pretty firmly a Liberal, but it pisses me off to see some people just fall into the usual stereotypes; opposing something justified thoughtlessly.

It's not "thoughtlessly". At least they are consistent in their views unlike so many people I talk to. With them it was "war is never the answer". Now, this shit is ok because we have a "justified" war. Bullshit. This whole thing wouldnt be happening if Libya wasnt oil-rich.

 

[Walshicus]

This attack is not about morality. Libya is not ruled by the worse Regime on earth. I'm sure you'd have to agree that there are far worse. If it's simply about morality, then why aren't the global forces liberating countries that are on the worse side of the dictatorship continuum.

It's not about morality or helping people in need. There have been plenty of recent bloody uprisings and rebellions in South East Asia, South Asia, Africa, Central Asia and South America, and not single country in the UN did anything to physically intervene. There was a 14 year Civil war in Liberia where 10 years old were being used as bullet shields. Chinese were being massacred in Indonesia. Burmese rebels were being hacked to death by machetes. Where was the world forces in these horrific atrocities? No where to be found.


So please don't come at me with some Kantian argument because there is no morally good Kantian intention in this attack. This attack is about Black Gold and nothing else, and everyone should be ashamed of supporting such blood soaked materialism.

Oh fuck off.

This *is* about morality, just as much as it's about European and Arab self interest.

Yes, there are probably bloodier conflicts we don't get involved in; but just because there is a pleasant convergence of objectives here doesn't lessen the fact that these strikes are morally valid.

 

[Godslay]

So please don't come at me with some Kantian argument because there is no morally good Kantian intention in this attack. This attack is about Black Gold and nothing else, and everyone should be ashamed of supporting such blood soaked materialism.

What do you think about the Nuremberg trials?

 

[Castor Krieg]

Rebels tried to stage a rebellion, guess what, they cannot win, run to UN to cry for help. Add to that France who wants to become European leader (again...). In other news: millions of North Koreans die of hunger under the Great Leader.

GG UN.

GG EU for letting Sarkozy even speak.


Inc: millions more Muslims in Iran and Saudi Arabia hating Western countries.

 

[Wazzim]

Jesus Christ, how is this guy still posting?

Because he has his own opinion? smh. I can confirm that a good amount of people living in countries like the DDR did like their lives. They especially liked that live wasn't about materialism like in the capitalist countries.

 

[Doc Evils]

Anyone see the BBC reporter in London interrupted by some asshole? The guy - middle class and English - actually says something to the effect of "victory for Libya, death to British imperialists". They cut him off pretty quickly, but "victory for Libya"?? The regime of Gadaffi?

I consider myself pretty firmly a Liberal, but it pisses me off to see some people just fall into the usual stereotypes; opposing something justified thoughtlessly.

We should deport him to Libya.

 

[Atilac]

Maybe he is with these protestors in LA...talk about a bunch of goofs.

Why's that women with the socialism sign having an orgasm?

 

[Funky Papa]

The blood for oil argument is a bit silly considering that Gaddafi was already an excellent provider, and countries such as France and the UK were investing tons of money in several civil and military projects.

 

[avaya]

This whole thing wouldnt be happening if Libya wasnt oil-rich.

Yeah no shit. My government is involved since it directly affects my government. There is both moral and material interest. Why should you be ashamed of that?

 

[Doc Evils]

"A woman in Tripoli says civilians are given access to anti-aircraft weapons"

what the fuck.

 

[teruterubozu]

Oh fuck off.

This *is* about morality, just as much as it's about European and Arab self interest.

Yes, there are probably bloodier conflicts we don't get involved in; but just because there is a pleasant convergence of objectives here doesn't lessen the fact that these strikes are morally valid.

Let's just talk about Libya then. So we ignored him for the last 40 years and suddenly we're struck with a sense of morality?

 

[raphier]

"A woman in Tripoli says civilians are given access to anti-aircraft weapons"

what the fuck.

Gaddafi wants to shoot then down, obviously. And force Allies to shoot civilians, eh?

 

[Walshicus]

Rebels tried to stage a rebellion, guess what, they cannot win, run to UN to cry for help.

They started off as protesters who became rebels when the government started killing them. They couldn't win because the regime bought mercenaries and had superior hardware. Now, to prevent another Bosnia on Europe's border a UN coalition is eliminating Gadaffi's capacity to asymmetrically engage his civilian population.

Let's just talk about Libya then. So we ignored him for the last 40 years and suddenly we're struck with a sense of morality?

Morality is part of the equation. Opportunity is the other.

Had the NTC formed 20 years ago with democratic ideals, been subjected to horrendous abuse by the regime and then requested international aid... I would have expected it to have been forthcoming.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Let's just talk about Libya then. So we ignored him for the last 40 years and suddenly we're struck with a sense of morality?

There wasn't a popular uprising against him, and he wasn't killing rebels with weapons made in French and British factories...

 

[delirium]

It's not "thoughtlessly". At least they are consistent in their views unlike so many people I talk to. With them it was "war is never the answer". Now, this shit is ok because we have a "justified" war. Bullshit. This whole thing wouldnt be happening if Libya wasnt oil-rich.

If the West was after the oil, wouldn't it be easier just to support Gadhafi and get oil from him instead of this?

 

[teruterubozu]

There wasn't a popular uprising against him, and he wasn't killing rebels with weapons made in French and British factories...

Oh he's been killing rebels for decades...

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Oh he's been killing rebels for decades...

True, but not on the same scale. Don't play semantics, you can see what I'm getting at.

 

[Godslay]

If the West was after the oil, wouldn't it be easier just to support Gadhafi and get oil from him instead of this?

Easier to trust the devil you know, then the one you don't.

 

[teruterubozu]

True, but not on the same scale. Don't play semantics, you can see what I'm getting at.

We're both playing semantics, mister. Picking and choosing for the sake of our arguments.

 

[Walshicus]

We're both playing semantics, mister. Picking and choosing for the sake of our arguments.

No, just you.

 

[dalin80]

It's not "thoughtlessly". At least they are consistent in their views unlike so many people I talk to. With them it was "war is never the answer". Now, this shit is ok because we have a "justified" war. Bullshit. This whole thing wouldnt be happening if Libya wasnt oil-rich.

Britain has just lost some awesome oil deals by standing against gadaffi.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Let's just talk about Libya then. So we ignored him for the last 40 years and suddenly we're struck with a sense of morality?

Get real man. He pushed his luck too far this time and he didn't have the geopolitical good will or capital to do so. He watched events in Tunisia and Egypt and turned to barbarism out of fear when the protests started in his country. He started this, and he's been asking for it ever since. This needn't have happened, the fact that it did is on him.

One of the most disgusting and sinister things about him is the media / PR-game he's attempted to play... clear attempts to divide the weakest and most doubtful elements of the international community, clear attempts to incite attacks against the media, much like Mubarak attempted - but far more savvy... clear and predictable attempts to turn public opinion against this intervention through hastily arranged press conferences where his supporters magically turn up at the end, or show funerals in the streets. He's not as stupid or as crazy as his interviews would suggest... he's just fucking evil and stubborn. His time is up.

 

[TheExecutive]

This UN resolution seals the deal with Muammar Gaddafi. Time to run or die dude.

Good bye and good riddance.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Why's that women with the socialism sign having an orgasm?

I'm happy someone else noticed that. lol

 

[Mgoblue201]

Let's just talk about Libya then. So we ignored him for the last 40 years and suddenly we're struck with a sense of morality?

This isn't even the first time we've bombed Libya while Gaddafi is in charge.

 

[teruterubozu]

Get real man. He pushed his luck too far this time and he doesn't have the geopolitical good will or capital to do so. He watched events in Tunisia and Egypt and turned to barbarism out of fear when the protests started in his country. He started this, and he's been asking for it ever since. This needn't have happened, the fact that it did is on him.

One of the most disgusting and sinister things about him is the media / PR-game he's attempted to play... clear attempts to divide the weakest and most doubtful elements of the international community, clear attempts to incite attacks against the media, much like Mubarak attempted - but far more savvy... clear and predictable attempts to turn public opinion against this intervention through hastily arranged press conferences where his supporters magically turn up at the end, or show funerals in the streets. He's not as stupid or as crazy as his interviews would suggest... he's just fucking evil and stubborn. His time is up.

So Reagan should have finished the job? It's the same story in the Middle East man. Just different players and different regimes, but always down to oil. The details are for justification.

This isn't even the first time we've bombed Libya while Gaddafi is in charge.

Yeah, but the Reagan bombing was a joke. We hit his brother's tent by mistake and said oh well, we're done here.

 

[gundamzeta209]

Why?

Libya is a significant oil-producing nation. Losing an oil producer to instability will wreak havoc on the energy market. With US. debt and USD currency already pushing up oil prices, a disruption caused by a Libyan war could send things over the top.

Like I said.... There was absolutely no involvement in other rebellions of recent years.

the work of activist Aung San Suu Kyi, the anti-government protests in late 2007, and the devastation wreaked by Cyclone Nargis, which left over 80,000 dead and 50,000 missing in mid-2008.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_conflict_in_Burma



Paul attredes was a nobody to the Universal Empire until he started to Disrupt the Spice Flows. Then the Emperor cared enough to send his Saurdakar warriors to Arakis.

 

[Stinkles]

Why's that women with the socialism sign having an orgasm?

Because she's just realized Richard Pryor is walking over to pleasure her.

 

[thekad]

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

So Reagan should have finished the job? It's the same story in the Middle East man. Just different players and different regimes, but always down to oil. The details are for justification.

The guy was already selling the oil to the west. The protests and rebel conflict was actually bad news for these countries because it has stopped production.

 

[Evenball]

Maybe he is with these protestors in LA...talk about a bunch of goofs.

somewhere out there, Glenn Beck is fapping to this picture.

 

[Stinkles]

Because he has his own opinion? smh. I can confirm that a good amount of people living in countries like the DDR did like their lives. They especially liked that live wasn't about materialism like in the capitalist countries.

Yes, but every single fact he has posted has been a crazy lie.

 

[TheExecutive]

Let's just talk about Libya then. So we ignored him for the last 40 years and suddenly we're struck with a sense of morality?

Countries wait for opportunities to remove those whom oppose them. This was one such opportunity and by this resolution Gaddafi will end up falling from power and there will be one less fanatical leader in the Middle East. They are starting to become a rare breed and western thought and culture is starting to pervade their youth. In other words, imho radical leaders in the Middle East are going to face some tough times ahead and this makes me happy.

 

[Lost Fragment]

Some people in this thread are making me wonder if in 2003, there were gaffers who actually believed the shit Baghdad Bob was saying.

 

[teruterubozu]

Countries wait for opportunities to remove those whom oppose them. This was one such opportunity and by this resolution Gaddafi will end up falling from power and there will be one less fanatical leader in the Middle East. They are starting to become a rare breed and western thought and culture is starting to pervade their youth. In other words, imho radical leaders in the Middle East are going to face some tough times ahead and this makes me happy.

If you think radicalism is going to die in the Middle East then you are as naive as George W. Bush. As long as US is dependent on Middle East oil, there will be conflict.

 

[Walshicus]

Some people in this thread are making me wonder if in 2003, there were gaffers who actually believed the shit Baghdad Bob was saying.

I hated how the Americans called him "Baghdad Bob" when everyone over here was calling him "Comical Ali" which was far more clever.

 

[RustyNails]

So Reagan should have finished the job? It's the same story in the Middle East man. Just different players and different regimes, but always down to oil. The details are for justification.

Then going against Gaddafi was counter-productive to US' interests. Gaddafi was cozy with US oil companies.

 

[theignoramus]

This attack is not about morality. Libya is not ruled by the worse Regime on earth. I'm sure you'd have to agree that there are far worse. If it's simply about morality, then why aren't the global forces liberating countries that are on the worse side of the dictatorship continuum.

It's not about morality or helping people in need. There have been plenty of recent bloody uprisings and rebellions in South East Asia, South Asia, Africa, Central Asia and South America, and not single country in the UN did anything to physically intervene. There was a 14 year Civil war in Liberia where 10 years old were being used as bullet shields. Chinese were being massacred in Indonesia. Burmese rebels were being hacked to death by machetes. Where was the world forces in these horrific atrocities? No where to be found.


So please don't come at me with some Kantian argument because there is no morally good Kantian intention in this attack. This attack is about Black Gold and nothing else, and everyone should be ashamed of supporting such blood soaked materialism.

The military intervention is open to charges of hypocrisy and cynicism. However,the character and intention of the Western attack doesnt change the argument for an attack. Gadaffi had been threatening a slaughter in Benghazi for weeks. The rebels called for help, the West was in a position to act and prevent a bloodbath, it did so. So yes, we shouldnt have any illusions about the attacks or the nations carrying it out, but given the situation on the ground 72 hours ago, an attack on Gadaffi was necessary.

 

[Canova]

This whole thing is just Iraq deja-vu all over again.


1. Western countries military action in Arab world
2. Dictator refuse to surrender, rally his own people
3. Prolong military action, civilians casualties increase
4. Dictators/Arab medias spin Western Christians vs Arab Muslim propaganda
5. Arab world got angry with Western world, etc, etc, etc

the same bullshit all over again.

I say let Arab world solve their own fucking problems. They dealt their own card, let them live with it, we stay the fuck out of this. Very disappointed that Canada and Italy got involved in this. Smart decision by Germany

 

[teruterubozu]

Then going against Gaddafi was counter-productive to US' interests. Gaddafi was cozy with US oil companies.

He was cozy off and on, never consistently. Always a wildcard.

This whole thing is just Iraq deja-vu all over again.


1. Western countries military action in Arab world
2. Dictator refuse to surrender, rally his own people
3. Prolong military action, civilians casualties increase
4. Dictators/Arab medias spin Western Christians vs Arab Muslim propaganda
5. Arab world got angry with Western world, etc, etc, etc

the same bullshit all over again.

I say let Arab world solve their own fucking problems. They dealt their own card, let them live with it, we stay the fuck out of this. Very disappointed that Canada and Italy got involved in this. Smart decision by Germany

B...b...but it's a great "opportunity".

 

[Veidt]

He was cozy off and on, never consistently. Always a wildcard.

Which is why France/Britain/US are all banking on the opposing tribe(s) being more willing.

 

[Doc Evils]

Some people in this thread are making me wonder if in 2003, there were gaffers who actually believed the shit Baghdad Bob was saying.

He's got a new job in Libya.

 

[Your Excellency]

"A woman in Tripoli says civilians are given access to anti-aircraft weapons"

what the fuck.

Can you imagine how awesome that is though? Imagine having a cop just hand you a fucking shoulder mounted grenade launcher and a load of ammo, and give you free reign to shoot shit. First thing I would do is shoot him and then:


1. Blow the SHIT out of people who I didn't like in school/work.

2. Go to Harvey Nichols and steal some designer clothes and BLOW UP any store clerk who tells me to pay. Would go to the oyster bar in Selfridges and demand that he give me a tub of caviar. I've never had caviar but I want to have a bath in that shit.

3. Go to a national park and blow up deers. And I actually LOVE animals. Actually I would ride a deer whilst shooting other deers.

4. Go to a Ferrari dealership and steal a car. Shoot grenade launcher out of the window whilst I drive. Also do the same with a helicopter.

5. Find sexy famous women and threaten to blow them to smithereens if they didn't have sex with me. Actually this would go first.

 

[radioheadrule83]

So Reagan should have finished the job? It's the same story in the Middle East man. Just different players and different regimes, but always down to oil. The details are for justification.

All I'm saying is that he instigated this. And he should have known better. Western powers were not looking for a fight with Gadaffi, but even against a backdrop of them trying to bring Libya back into the international community, he had to have known that attacking his people would not be looked on kindly by the international community. He has a very negative history, his country has a reputation for having exported terrorism, and his country produces 2% of the world's oil - which while valuable and lucrative, is not enough to play poker with. He's not a big enough player to cause major economic disruption, he's not a major ally with any of the permanent security council members, and even peers in the Arab League are sick of his shit. He's had umpteen opportunities to moderate his position since all of this kicked off, even as late as Friday - had he stuck to his word about his ceasefire - he would have put the western powers in a very difficult position. He could have helped Libya transition into something better, but instead he chose the self preservation of his power and extreme aggression...

We talk about double standards in the world, some dictators and despots getting away with murder and perhaps much worse, but I feel as though we have to acknowledge the reality of geopolitical relationships. Some people just have a better hand than gadaffi, and the international community knows how to pick and choose its fights. Even if 'liberating' Gadaffi's oil supply is a hidden agenda here, its not one that could have been satisfied were it not for Gadaffi's stubborn aggression and stupidity.

He's got a new job in Libya.

There seem to be two or three of them this time.

 

[RustyNails]

This whole thing is just Iraq deja-vu all over again.


1. Western countries military action in Arab world
2. Dictator refuse to surrender, rally his own people
3. Prolong military action, civilians casualties increase
4. Dictators/Arab medias spin Western Christians vs Arab Muslim propaganda
5. Arab world got angry with Western world, etc, etc, etc

the same bullshit all over again.

I say let Arab world solve their own fucking problems. They dealt their own card, let them live with it, we stay the fuck out of this. Very disappointed that Canada and Italy got involved in this. Smart decision by Germany

You forgot a couple of more points above point number 1. This conflict did not start with UN authorization for the No Fly Zone. I'm tired of responding to posts like these.

 

[Veidt]

Your Excellency, but everyone else has weapons too!

It'll be like Somalia all over again.

 

[teruterubozu]

Which is why France/Britain/US are all banking on the opposing tribe(s) being more willing.

Like Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, etc., etc.

 

[avaya]

Libya is a significant oil-producing nation. Losing an oil producer to instability will wreak havoc on the energy market. With US. debt and USD currency already pushing up oil prices, a disruption caused by a Libyan war could send things over the top.

Like I said.... There was absolutely no involvement in other rebellions of recent years.

I asked why should I be ashamed of materialism. I know full well about the commodity/energy market.