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Undertale |OT| Indie RPG with determination and spider bake sales
- Thread starter Earthpainting
- Start date
Sarcastico
Member
I completed the game with the genocide route, neutral route and true pacifist. Genocide route was definitely the worst way to experience the game. By the end, you won't learn anything about the monsters or even your own character. True Pacifist was by far the most fulfilling way to experience the game.
To be honest, Undertale caught me by surprise. I never expected that I would be so emotionally invested in the story and its characters.
An unforgettable journey and my game of the year.
To be honest, Undertale caught me by surprise. I never expected that I would be so emotionally invested in the story and its characters.
An unforgettable journey and my game of the year.
What ending did you get?
Alphys?
Tangentially related to this thread, i was wondering, why don't you have an Undyne avatar right now?
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Pretty much. Regardless of my opinion I was still wholly invested in the characters and moved by the course of events. It's more of my taste thing. Especially towards the end, many of the sequences get a bit long in the tooth with the feels, and I tend to lean towards more subtle, abstract storytelling by preference.
I think it's an accomplishment for any writer to pen a cast of characters that become instantly distinct and loved by a fanbase, and that for me is Undertale's strength.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
It's definitely the game with the most chutzpah I've played in awhile. Not to say that there aren't some subtlety in how he constructs the world, but he definitely wants to let you know what undertale is all about. Which I can see why that would leave some people cold.
Don't let people deter you. The game is not really hard on Pacifist if you have even just mid-tier reflexes. It's pretty simple, even the last bullet hell boss. I mean it's not easy, but there are way, way way harder games. It doesn't even rank.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Pacifist is the most fun way to play the game honestly.
BrosukeHanamura
Member
Pacifist has a fairly nice difficulty curve. You may die to certain bosses a lot in your first playthrough, but once you get patterns down, it's not bad. Bisicles and Sea Teas were my best friends in my first Pacifist run.
AcceptableGhost
Member
Yeah the game goes out of its way to make all of your power gain in that run mean almost nothing (
complete with Sans just dodging every attack
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
It's a weird one. I think the game isn't supposed to be hard/easy in any deliberate sense because the weight of the experience hinges so heavily on contexts of the options presented rather than the nuances of the options. It's why I think the best experience would undoubtedly come from someone going in almost totally blind, unaware of any particular endings that adhere to pacifist/genocide and simply taking the experience and its developments as they come.
But since it still is an interactive piece of work the nuances of how you're challenged are there, and that's where I have most my grievances. None of which are particularly serious, but yeah, like I said earlier doing a pacifist run as someone who struggled a bit with some of the bullet-hell and endurance twich-like minigames the game can descend into monotonous pattern recognition, which really isn't very fun or inventive. Learning the puzzle-like nuances of how to conquer an opponent outside of conflict is stimulating. Repeating the same ordered dodge-the-thing attacks over and over, especially after dieing, isn't.
And I think that's where I'd fault it. As a rhythm/bullet-hell/pattern game I personally don't think Undertale is all that great. I could be totally wrong, but I did feel the collision detection was at times off, and sometimes the visualisation of attacks and hit feedback were a total mess. Sometimes it was great and it worked. Other times repetitious and rough. But where it excels is the sum total of parts, where the creative puzzler elements, presentation, narrative, and subversion/exploration of genre tropes elevate the experience as a whole over its less impressive components.
If the battle/dodge system was explored a bit deeper alongside the puzzling I think the game would be borderline perfect. Thankfully it's not a huge deterrent its current form, much the same for Nier (which to be honest I actually enjoyed more in moment-to-moment play).
But since it still is an interactive piece of work the nuances of how you're challenged are there, and that's where I have most my grievances. None of which are particularly serious, but yeah, like I said earlier doing a pacifist run as someone who struggled a bit with some of the bullet-hell and endurance twich-like minigames the game can descend into monotonous pattern recognition, which really isn't very fun or inventive. Learning the puzzle-like nuances of how to conquer an opponent outside of conflict is stimulating. Repeating the same ordered dodge-the-thing attacks over and over, especially after dieing, isn't.
And I think that's where I'd fault it. As a rhythm/bullet-hell/pattern game I personally don't think Undertale is all that great. I could be totally wrong, but I did feel the collision detection was at times off, and sometimes the visualisation of attacks and hit feedback were a total mess. Sometimes it was great and it worked. Other times repetitious and rough. But where it excels is the sum total of parts, where the creative puzzler elements, presentation, narrative, and subversion/exploration of genre tropes elevate the experience as a whole over its less impressive components.
If the battle/dodge system was explored a bit deeper alongside the puzzling I think the game would be borderline perfect. Thankfully it's not a huge deterrent its current form, much the same for Nier (which to be honest I actually enjoyed more in moment-to-moment play).
The best part is
getting the Real Knife and the Heart Locket, which max out your stats, just ten minutes earlier.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I'm not super into bullet hell/rythm games but compared to actual games in those genres, Undertale's combat is not that great - but where Undertale succeeds is the little character flourishes, which is probably why the combat system was chosen. Although its not particularly good, its unique and serves the game very well, if that makes sense.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Yeah, I think I like the system more because of the way it allows the creatures personalities to blossom just through combat, in a way I haven't really seen. Could be tightened up fo sho, but I didn't really have much trouble with it. Not to say I didn't have some trouble, mostly because movement is somewhat sluggish, but I think most of the troubles I've had was due to the 360's POS d-pad.
Like when
it kinda blew my mind. Also some of the comedic bits occur during those parts.
Like when
Toriel started missing on purpose
I have a sneaky suspicion judging by posts in this thread that Undertale's combat tends to be perceived favourably by those who don't play many bullet hell games and badly (or at least worse) by those who do, in much the same way that Spec Ops: The Line was criticised for derivative gameplay by those who had played lots of military shooters.
I'm trying to get him to change to one!
Huh, yeah, I've never played a 'proper' bullet hell before, and I love what Undertale's battle system does with dodging.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I agree with Antiwhippy's examples, but yeah. I think it's more the trial and error that bothers me? It's obviously not 100% trial and error, but more that (unless I really am supremely shit) most people are going to find themselves in encounters with an enemy throwing insane, high damage challenges at them that at first are extremely hard to predict and adapt to. That's how I found it on my end; the mos difficult challenges often didn't feel fair in the sense that I simply wasn't "good enough", but that there telegraphing and feedback was so weak the best strategy is to already know how attacks will play out. So instead of something like another RPG game where most battles utilise the game systems in a way that is about strategy and adapting, Undertale relies more on its creative expression of the battle system and unique methods of input. Which is fun and fine, but on some runs, like for me True Pacifist where you have such little health most of the time unless you're happy grinding for super armour, it can lead to some really abhorrent, repetitive encounters against the stronger bosses. Because ultimately nothing changes. You go in, you listen to the dialogue, you experience and fail against the first batch of turns. Respawn, sit/skip through the same dialogue again, copy what you learned last time since it'll play out exactly the same, then fail at the second bunch. I felt a lot of the times I was getting hit by shit I simply couldn't dodge due to the flashy, stylish-over-readability attacks that are sometimes thrown at you at such speed and succession that the real strategy is already knowing how to play. And I personally don't consider that a strength, and instead a weakness that could be improved on, as end of the day to get through the game you still must engage with it including these systems.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I never really felt like that except for the last boss in Genocide, obviously. I guess I just picked up on it pretty fast
except for Mettaton EX, that was somewhat difficult
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I'd do a Genocide run but I suspect I'd just feel awful.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Well that is the point. If you are like me, eventually the knowledge that you didn't actually 100% complete the game will get to you and you'll just do it
JonathanNemo
Member
Not quite sure I agree with this. Aside from LPers who really dig and are actually good at shumps like Slowbeef really taking this game's combat well, I (not good at games) have more than a few Saturn shmups on hand that I've enjoyed.
And I found some challenges hard, I've died a few times, but I never got frustrated. The game's short enough by the time you might get tired of the combat system, it ends. Even challenges that could have been a bit too difficult have opportunities to save, or creative solutions to accelerate their end. I'm thinking about
Metaton
what words you write about him, what objects you use to heal, being close to death among others
Then there's
Temmie armor
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Oh definitely agreed with this. Some of the patterns are somewhat inscrutable.
Definite room for improvement if Toby ever wants to explore that system again.
JonathanNemo
Member
You don't, IIRC. Part of the neutral run try-harder-ness is that
you're trapped in the place where you fought Flowey, while your friends find some peace without you. Well, most endings they seem to.
This is very evident if you try to
kill Flowey instead of show mercy
Asgore fight. You're doomed to fight Flowey, trap yourself in this place of nothingness, and repeat the game until you can find a way to break the cycle.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
If you give Asgore mercy he notes how you'd rather stay down there forever than kill someone, so you don't escape. Otherwise you aim to kill him and leave.
gutterboy44
Member
That was a fun game. I love when games subvert your expectations. Lots of genuine lol moments which is a huge credit to the writing. All the characters were great, it just lost a little steam in the end. The conclusion was meh, and I am pretty much done with any form of bullet hell for a few years. It became so tedious at the end. I wanted the game to be over out of the bordem of that mechanic more than anything. It is fun how the story interacts with the bullet hell, but..bloody hell. It got old about half way through the game. Unfortuantely as others have mentioned in this thread, the main mechanic of bullet hell leaves me zero desire to play this game again for pacifist.
I am really happy to have played the game, it was fun, original and very memorable. But I have to say, the gameplay quickly began to hinder my enjoyment of an otherwise engaging tale. It should be on any respectable GOTY list, but it has far too many flaws to warrant all of this ridiculous best game ever over-hype. I can see if this was someones first "subvert your expectations" game, why they feel so passionately about it. I remember wanting to tell every person I knew about Frog Fractions. If you've played that, you can see where Undertale was influenced. Either way, I appreciate eveyone's passions because it got me to pick up this game I might have otherwise overlooked. Really enjoyed it and would recommend it to pretty much anyone I know who games.
I am really happy to have played the game, it was fun, original and very memorable. But I have to say, the gameplay quickly began to hinder my enjoyment of an otherwise engaging tale. It should be on any respectable GOTY list, but it has far too many flaws to warrant all of this ridiculous best game ever over-hype. I can see if this was someones first "subvert your expectations" game, why they feel so passionately about it. I remember wanting to tell every person I knew about Frog Fractions. If you've played that, you can see where Undertale was influenced. Either way, I appreciate eveyone's passions because it got me to pick up this game I might have otherwise overlooked. Really enjoyed it and would recommend it to pretty much anyone I know who games.
Oh alright, figured you leave since you go through the same door as Ture Pacifist....
JonathanNemo
Member
There's (still ending spoils)
a door, that leads to end credits. But even the monsters seem unaware of where you went. They just assume you're at the surface because they can't find you underground anymore
And then (spoils for a specific choice
no mercy on Flowey, replay Asgore fight
there's a peculiar dialogue sequence where Flowey returns, and it's clear you can't escape from this cycle. Can't even get a proper ending really, apart from that phone call and end credits. Can't get the boss monster soul you need to escape, either.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
There is a really cool fan-made boss fight someone made:
http://taxiderby.tumblr.com/post/135354499621/hi-i-made-playable-undertale-tribute-made-from
http://taxiderby.tumblr.com/post/135354499621/hi-i-made-playable-undertale-tribute-made-from
How About No
Member
Dat looks coo
toastyToast
Member
I need to finish my genocide run. I went to the gamefaqs board during the goat vote and had the shit spoiled out of it from topic titles alone lol
Woah. That really took on new meaning this year.
If you aren't going to play it again I would recommend looking up the pacifist exclusive scenes cause there is quite a bit.
There is a really cool fan-made boss fight someone made:
http://taxiderby.tumblr.com/post/135354499621/hi-i-made-playable-undertale-tribute-made-from
The bossfight seems bad, though. The attacks are terribly bad, with none of undertale's design.
Cutting the movement area itself in half is pretty spiff, though.
gutterboy44
Member
Fingers crossed for a Vita port or PS4 for remote play. I would definitely run through it again then.
Toby seems like he really doesn't want to work on the game anymore so I don't think a port is happening unfortunately. Would re-buy it in a heartbeat though.
gutterboy44
Member
Bummer. Maybe if he outsourced the port with some Sony help.
Also the way some of the more meta stuff is done would probably fail certification.
There is a really cool fan-made boss fight someone made:
http://taxiderby.tumblr.com/post/135354499621/hi-i-made-playable-undertale-tribute-made-from
Havent had the chance to play this, looks plenty fun.
But from the look of the attacks, it kinda bothers me that people who often do this sort of thing focus too much into making their (often self inserts, not the case here it seems tho) be "oh! so badass!" characters with overblown cool/edgy looking attacks.
How come no one ever embraces the silly aspects of the system? Where are the whimsical monsters with silly attacks?
