Basileus777
Member
What they're doing with the Stannis/Bolton northern plotline continues to be the biggest mystery about this season. Everything else we have some leaks or information on where they are going, but there's almost nothing for this.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 Offseason Thread
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The fact that he was semi-written out of the show after Season 1 had us sceptical of his return, even after the Last Hearth namedrop in Season 3.
As Basileus says, since most of us know next to nothing about what's going on with Stannis and/or Winterfell later on in the season, it's possible the Greatjon could pop up.
Also, the return of Kevan and
this season lend a lot more credence to Mantle returning to the show after a long break.
As Basileus says, since most of us know next to nothing about what's going on with Stannis and/or Winterfell later on in the season, it's possible the Greatjon could pop up.
Also, the return of Kevan and
Jaqen
I can see them deciding that a pre-existing character, even one from two episodes four seasons ago, is better than introducing a new character from a house that's never been mentioned on the show. Unless there was some bad blood between them after he left, I dunno. This one's in a weird limbo, I guess.
Exterminieren
Banned
No kidding. We don't know if they're doing Fake!Arya, or building up to the Battle of Winterfell, or what.
Alfie Allen's comments about characters crossing paths in his storyline are interesting. I'd say there's a distinct chance of Brienne or Sansa turning up at Winterfell. Maybe Littlefinger is making his move this season?
We got 4 last time plus the making of, I believe. Music choice for S5 Trailer 1 was pretty meh so I'm hoping for another trailer soon.
And although I might not be completely comfortable with Greatjon replacing Wyman Manderly (if it does end up happening), I just want to see The North Remembers happen in the show. Imagine if D&D just had Stannis march on Winterfell without trying to gain the support of the north. Would completely change things in the north.
Edit:
Well we don't know for certain that he isn't back...shit I'm in the denial phase again. Just like with Stoneheart. And the Greyjoys. And the Manderlys. And the Griffs. :|
Eh, I wouldn't say you're in full-on denial yet. Her story is that she was working with him on another show, but she can't say what that other show is and he's not on record as having any active TV projects right now. That could all be true, but it's also pretty much exactly what you'd get if someone was hastily slapping together a denial to a months-old tweet they had probably forgotten about. I'm going 50/50 on this one for now. But maybe I'm in denial, too.
I am leaning toward Sansa in Winterfell being slightly more likely than not at this point, after that Alfie Allen interview, though.
bodyofanamerican
Member
From that link:
Alfie Allen said:
Really hoping he gets to do the scene where Theon begs for forgiveness at the heart tree in Winterfell's godswood this season. Say what you will, but Alfie Allen positively kills it every time he's put in the spotlight, and I'd expect this to be some of his best work.
badcrumble
Member
From the show runner's perspective, it probably makes the most sense not to introduce three different new storylines that are extremely heavy on political intrigue all at once (the Northern conspiracy, Dorne, and the Greyjoy kingsmoot).
Obviously S5 will have a big new Dorne emphasis, but the more I think about it the more I think it makes a ton of sense to tie all or most of the Northern conspiracy into being Littlefingers doing (especially when in the books hes obviously making his own moves to undermine the Boltons when the time is right).
The big mystery for me is what theyre going to be doing with Yara Greyjoy this season. Theres not much to attach her to whats going on with Winterfell now that all of her big Theon beats have already happened, but it doesnt look as though the Kingsmoot is happening either. I still think the odds that shell end up taking on Victarions role in the story (in the sense of eventually encountering Moqorro and transporting the dragon horn to Sansa somehow) but its difficult to know whats important about those story elements its possible those could get folded into Daario along with the fleet-of-ships business. Yaras future role in the show is pretty much a straight up mystery at this point (which, IMO, might mark her for death pretty soon).
It definitely makes sense to me that they would use the Greatjon to fill the role of Manderly, even if it's a bit disappointing that he wouldn't just be his own character, but at least his arc wouldn't be cut entirely.
It's no different than Gendry taking Edric Storm's place really.
I still think the Greyjoys could be introduced late in the season or perhaps next season, just to not cram the show with too many new characters. I'm sure the arc will be heavily modified to make that possible as well.
It's no different than Gendry taking Edric Storm's place really.
I still think the Greyjoys could be introduced late in the season or perhaps next season, just to not cram the show with too many new characters. I'm sure the arc will be heavily modified to make that possible as well.
"There sits the only king I'll bend my knee to..."
Still seems silly to me. I hate the notion that show watchers can't be introduced to too many characters because they are fragile and unintelligent. They even cast one of the Manderly's (untitled) at the Red Wedding!
BobTheFork
Member
What about Davos? Do we think they will keep his story line, regardless of where he goes and whom tells him were to search for Rickon? I can see them doing the fake out and panning on a tar covered head and stub hand before coming back to it 2 episodes later.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Especially since their storyline isn't really long to begin with.
Get kingsmoot. Taking the 4 shields. Aftermath of the fight. 2 episodes of traveling to Danny.
I could see them doing Victarion's arc in season 6 with him arriving at the same time Dany get's back with Drogon. Then have everyone leave for Westeros straight after the Battle for Mereen (or whatever version of it the show does).
That's assuming Daznak's Pit plays out the way it does in the book of course.
That's assuming Daznak's Pit plays out the way it does in the book of course.
Basileus777
Member
I don't think they can introduce Victarion that late and have it work. The show has already written out a need for his ships, Dany captured a fleet in season 4.
Season 6 is supposedly the 2nd to the last season, at that point they won't have the time to force in AFFC/ADWD arcs that they skipped in season 5.
I suppose it depends how much longer Dany will spend in Essos and how long they plan for her to be in Westeros before the end of the show. There's time for Vic's arc if Tyrion/Barristan etc are still in Mereen for most of season 6 before Dany returns.
Also I remember them mentioning the fleet they captured could only hold around 9000 soldiers. If the plan is for Dany to take control of a Khalasar like the books seem to be hinting at then they'll need a lot more ships. Though as I said it's all kinda dependant on them following the books...
BobTheFork
Member
I think it's much too late for Victarion. Hell, I can't believe Balon is still alive. I think that shows they don't intend to move the Greyjoy story ahead much or at all. If they had at least Killed Balon last year I could think that his family would appear.
I think the real way to do it would have been to have Victarion early and at least have him around when Balon was planning the next move after Theon arrived. You could of had him there and then he becomes a factor when Balon dies.
I think the real way to do it would have been to have Victarion early and at least have him around when Balon was planning the next move after Theon arrived. You could of had him there and then he becomes a factor when Balon dies.
Once you're in to season 6, I think the best case scenario is that the Ironborn plot condenses into being entirely Euron based, no Vic or Damphair. (Worst case is no Greyjoys at all) Balon dies, exiled brother shows up the next day, but in this version there are no other uncles and Yara is away in her mission, so there's no challenge and he takes the throne uncontested.
I really doubt we're getting any transcontinental voyage to deliver the horn. They'll either have it show up in Meereen in non-Ironborn hands maybe one of the Ghiscari lords has one and gives it to Dany as a wedding gift, thinking it's just an old trinket? Similar to the dragon eggs from season one or they have Euron have it, but he's waiting for Dany to arrive to use it on her. Maybe it's locked up in the Citadel and he has to actually go get it, and they could use that to explain the attack on the Reach? I dunno, but I don't think they want to send anyone on massive boat rides, and they'll probably write what they have to to get around that.
I'm really not sure why they've left Balon alive for so long. Certainly he needs to die or else Melisandre's magic will appear to not work, whereas the fact that all 3 (Robb, Joffrey, and Balon) do die in the book gives Mel a ton of credibility.
Overall, I'd say the Greyjoys have been handled worse than anything else on the show, except for Theon himself. But it almost seems pointless for Yara or Balon to even be in the show at this point, they don't really have anything to do without Victarion or Crow's Eye.
Overall, I'd say the Greyjoys have been handled worse than anything else on the show, except for Theon himself. But it almost seems pointless for Yara or Balon to even be in the show at this point, they don't really have anything to do without Victarion or Crow's Eye.
BobTheFork
Member
I've been assuming we get a scene of Balon being killed by a faceless man either just before Arya shows up at their door, or when the Kind Old Man is explaining the kind of work they do. After that....I think the Theon is the only ironborn we get.
biosnake20
Member
From Magali Villeneuve's(the artist) Facebook page:
Actually now that I think about it this pic could just be the prologue of AGoT.
bodyofanamerican
Member
From Magali Villeneuve's(the artist) Facebook page:
Actually now that I think about it this pic could just be the prologue of AGoT.
I guarantee you it's
Mercy
Agreed.
"Summink wrong wiv y'leg, boy?"
On the whole Sansa side of things this season...
I'm still gathering my thoughts, but I don't think she'll be substituting for fArya. I do believe, however, that she'll be present in Winterfell. We know that a Maisie lookalike has been cast as a "Winterfell worker". It's just too much to ignore. Perhaps Littlefinger establishes Sansa as his agent on the inside? He is the grand architect of the whole fArya business anyway. Maybe Sansa is to lend credence to fArya's legitimacy, while also being given agency by Littlefinger to slowly sow the seeds of chaos in the Bolton camp. This ties in with the "Avenge them" line in the trailer, and would also explain Sansa's visible distress (she has to knowingly subject this poor girl to abuse and torture in the place of HER OWN SISTER). Littlefinger is using the whole revenge angle to manipulate Sansa into carrying out his will. Of course, whether she does or not is another thing entirely. I think that "Alayne" will be given to the Boltons as a ward, as a showing of good faith from the Vale and by proxy the Crown. Roose will ensure that she is kept away from Ramsay's shit as he is aware of their fragile position (the Northerners' discontent, King's Landing in mayhem, Stannis on the move), but she WILL be privy to the infamous bedding scene between Reek, Ramsay and fArya. This is the traumatic scene Sophie has spoken of.
Again, I haven't fully sorted out my thoughts on the matter yet. All of the above is just a splurge that came out, and is mostly speculation.
badcrumble
Member
Main reason I can't see that working is that the entire value of fArya is as the supposed last known legitimate and living Stark (with Sansa branded as a criminal and vanished from everyone's knowledge) - not to mention Littlefinger revealing that he's got her (and treating with the Boltons) would immediately make Littlefinger and the Boltons enemies of the Lannisters, whereas the whole point of fArya is to basically end the Stark bloodline and secure a North that's under the approval of Tywin Lannister.
And the point of Littlefinger keeping Sansa around is so that when the time comes he can secure the North under his control. She's a trump card likely to be played specifically *against* the Boltons.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
This is the best thing
That's why I said Alayne would be given as a ward, and not Sansa. Littlefinger wouldn't reveal her as Sansa. Tywin's dead and the Crown is in disrepair; there's far less chance of retribution occurring anyway. We know Littlefinger will be back in King's Landing this season. He could treat with the Boltons both as acting Lord Paramount of the Vale and as an envoy of the Crown...
They might play up the same idea with Roose/Sansa as with Tywin/Arya - a kind of does he or doesn't he know type of thing. Then just as Roose reveals to her that he has known all along and Sansa becomes terrified, wacky hijinks happen in the form of a combined Theon and Mannis ex machina. Ok, I'm getting carried away now, but I can honestly see an arc like this working in the context of the show.
They might play up the same idea with Roose/Sansa as with Tywin/Arya - a kind of does he or doesn't he know type of thing. Then just as Roose reveals to her that he has known all along and Sansa becomes terrified, wacky hijinks happen in the form of a combined Theon and Mannis ex machina. Ok, I'm getting carried away now, but I can honestly see an arc like this working in the context of the show.
bodyofanamerican
Member
I couldn't agree more about your theory about Sansa's traumatic scene. Though Sophie rated it as a 6 on a 1-10 scale. I'd rate it...a bit higher.
badcrumble
Member
The idea that you could bring Sansa to Winterfell and not have any former Stark bannermen recognize her, let alone Roose Bolton, just doesn't make sense to me. I dunno.
I just can't see, once they had come up with the idea of sending Sansa to Winterfell as Alayne, them getting through more than one or two writers' meetings without someone saying "Why not just drop fArya and have Sansa marry him instead?"
Whatever plot convolutions they'd have to employ to make that work, I think they would prefer that to having the double secret identities of fArya and Alayne interacting with each other all at once. It's one scene of Littlefinger explaining how he's somehow orchestrated this marriage scheme without upsetting Cersei versus a whole season of viewers having to keep straight that Sansa is pretending not to be Sansa while also pretending that this girl is Arya and Theon knows the truth about both of these but is playing along and I'm not really sure what the Boltons do and don't know.
Basileus777
Member
We're supposed to spoiler tag information on the show based off of leaks. Some people go beyond that and spoiler tag speculation that doesn't need to be hidden. Nothing in your post needs to be tagged.
We don't know anything about TWOW that even warrants a spoiler tag, the spoiler chapters out there don't have much of interest in them.
badcrumble
Member
I think I just also don't believe that Littlefinger would place Sansa directly in harm's way like that. He's a cold bastard but I also totally believe that he's fixated on her. He wants to use her to achieve his dreams, sure, but I think he also wants her to sort of be the beneficiary of those dreams (i.e. he wants to make her Queen in the North).
IMO, the whole point of Sansa is that Littlefinger is the one who set the Boltons up with fArya in the first place - at the moment of his choosing, he can reveal that they've got a false Stark and he's got a real one and watch the North tear the Boltons to pieces and flock to his side.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Regardless, all content from TWOW preview chapters is to be spoiler tagged.
I don't disagree with any of that, but given the preferences the writers have shown over the past four seasons, I think concerns about simplicity and reducing the character count pretty much always win out over concerns about people's schemes not making sense. We've already seen that they seem perfectly willing to blow up all of Varys schemes for the sake of cutting a complicated plot, and I don't think they care to give Littlefinger much better treatment than that if they feel they can get a simpler plot with fewer characters and more ~drama~ by merging Sansa and fArya.
badcrumble
Member
Maybe. I *do* still think we'll see Littlefinger merged with Wyman Manderley, but if Sansa's at Winterfell I think she'll be hidden from the Boltons and from all Stark bannermen in general, not merged with fArya somehow.
Season 4's ending sent a clear signal that Sansa's turning into a character with agency (and a darker side). I don't think they'll renege on that by turning her over to the Boltons.
Yeah, I think any Sansa in Winterfell plot, whether she's marrying Ramsay or not, comes with a side of her trying to take down the Boltons from the inside. I don't think her taking fArya's role and marrying Ramsay is mutually exclusive with that. It just makes it a much more trying task for her.
I can see the Littlefinger / Manderly merger, even though I really dislike it. It strips the Northern resistance of its Northern character, which I don't like at all, but that's another one of those things I don't think the writers care about.
Cornballer
Member
Yes, that is the case. It's listed in the OP.
badcrumble
Member
It becomes Northern As Hell if Sansa turns around after the Northerners slaughter the Boltons and Freys and says "btw Littlefinger helped orchestrate the Red Wedding." (though that's made more explicit in the books, and in the show it might not be the case).
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Haven't been around in a while, what new set info / speculation have I missed?
There's gonna be an ASOIAF calendar with one painting of a TWOW event.
Kevan Lannister is back in the show.
The chance of Catelyn returning is now slightly less implausible.
People are very into the idea that Sansa will go to Winterfell and interact with Theon and the Boltons in the show.
There was some evidence and then counter evidence that Greatjon Umber may be back on the show. All in all it doesn't seem likely, but the idea is out there now.
Those are the two big ones right now, for speculation that's happened after everyone picked through the trailer. Other than the Kevan thing Valhelm already mentioned.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I heard about the calendar and that's pretty cool. Why do people think that Sansa's going north? And what's this about Catelyn? What evidence is there to suggest that they're doing Stoneheart?
Don't get my hopes up guys
I heard about the calendar and that's pretty cool. Why do people think that Sansa's going north? And what's this about Catelyn? What evidence is there to suggest that they're doing Stoneheart?
Don't get my hopes up guys
Sansa going north got its start based on some crazy analysis some dude did comparing the door in the background of the trailer shot where Sansa is in the sty to the doors in Winterfell in seasons 1 and 2 versus the doors we've seen in the Vale. It was kind of ridiculous. But then Alfie Allen gave an interview where he said that his plot involved characters who have never met or who have only shared brief screentime together meeting and interacting, and that there is a very strong relationship between Theon and another character he meets this way. So people immediately jumped to Sansa as the leading candidate for who that relationship would be.
I'm not even sure what the latest of Michele Fairley is at this point, I just sort of tune it all out. Last I heard, her agent gave a pretty strong denial that she was in the show, but then someone asked her instead and she gave a coy "who knoooooows you'll have to watch and see!" instead.
so are you saying you know for sure or
I see what you did there "cut" haha as in physically cut across the throat haha AND THAT MEANS SHES IN CONFIRMED GET HYPE
been on #TeamCut since the day she didn't show in the season 4 finale.
Basileus777
Member
I meant that more as an indicator that no one is talking about TWOW spoilers. I know the rules.
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