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[-griffy-]

That smash cut to end the episode to the Hold Steady version of Bear and Maiden Faire is one of the more inspired things the show has ever done. I loved it. Tonally it was perfect. A brilliant use of "period" inappropriate music.

They wouldn't do something like that after Viper vs. Mountain because they aren't stupid.

 

[NeoGiff]

That smash cut to end the episode to the Hold Steady version of Bear and Maiden Faire is one of the more inspired things the show has ever done. I loved it. Tonally it was perfect. A brilliant use of "period" inappropriate music.

They wouldn't do something like that after Viper vs. Mountain because they aren't stupid.

Why is it so appropriate to use it at that particular moment and not others? Can you suggest another scene where you'd like something similar to occur? What makes that moment so exclusively perfect to completely break immersion?

Maybe they should have had an episode end with Theon getting the chop, and then a smash cut to "weiner, weiner, weiner...".

 

[hydrophilic attack]

My feelings exactly.

Oh man, I wish I was around here for the reaction to that! I absolutely hated it at the end of the episode. Imagine if they had done something similar for Oberyn's death. I can see it playing out now:

"ELIA MARTELL! I KILLED HER CHILDREN! AND I RAPED HER! THEN I SMASHED HER HEAD IN LIKE THIS!"

Cut to black...

"THE DORNISHMAN'S WIFE WAS AS FAIR AS THE SUN,
AND HER KISSES WERE WARMER THAN SPRIIIIIING!"

Actually

That would have been perfect.

That would have made the ending of S04E08 into the ultimate troll.

 

[-griffy-]

Why is it so appropriate to use it at that particular moment and not others? Can you suggest another scene where you'd like something similar to occur? What makes that moment so exclusively perfect to completely break immersion?

Maybe they should have had an episode end with Theon getting the chop, and then a smash cut to "weiner, weiner, weiner...".

Why would I suggest another scene where I'd like something like that? It's such a unique thing that it isn't appropriate in almost any other scenario, and doing something like it again would rob that moment of its uniqueness and impact.

That moment with Jaimed getting his hand cut off works because it isn't a major heroic character getting killed in a tragic, unexpected way thereby completely crushing the audiences hopes and dreams, like the Viper, who was a wildly enthusiastic, easily likeable character trying to fight against the "bad" guys for noble reasons, who was seemingly winning a fight before being brutally killed. It also isn't something so disturbing as a character being endlessly tortured by a complete psychopath.

It's a character who is likeable, but at that point in the series is still more of a "bad" guy, who is a dick to many characters. He's a smart ass, he's smug and in the scene he's trying to use his stature and influence to get himself out of trouble. It isn't a brutal, depressing killing, it's a moment of immense humbling for a character that has been incredibly cocky and essentially coasting through life as an entitled pretty boy (to the audiences perspective at that point in the series). It's something that the character might even deserve. It's a reminder to the audience that "Nope, this isn't a world where you can just smoothly talk yourself out of trouble." It's a subversion of expectation, an intentional clash, by having the music tonally "siding" with the characters who cut Jaime's hand off instead of with Jaime himself. It's a raucous moment for them, where they would cut his hand off and laugh about it while returning to the fire with a pint in hand. The music is a statement about the world as much as anything else. "You're one of the best swordfighters in the land? Tough shit, we're cutting off your sword hand and we don't give a fuck, we're carrying on drinking while you cry in the corner." It's a jarringly violent moment as it's shot very bluntly in one shot, and hangs on it as you almost don't perceive what has happened, and then the hard cut to black and the period inappropriate music only emphasizes the surprise of the moment.

 

[Iksenpets]

We're complaining, but at least these episode endings would liven Westeros up with more than two songs. The Dornishman's Wife and Hey, Ho, Where'd My Sausage Go? would've added some real color to the world, especially as rendered by our finest modern rock bands.

 

[NeoGiff]

Why would I suggest another scene where I'd like something like that? It's such a unique thing that it isn't appropriate in almost any other scenario, and doing something like it again would rob that moment of its uniqueness and impact.

That moment with Jaimed getting his hand cut off works because it isn't a major heroic character getting killed in a tragic, unexpected way thereby completely crushing the audiences hopes and dreams, like the Viper, who was a wildly enthusiastic, easily likeable character trying to fight against the "bad" guys for noble reasons, who was seemingly winning a fight before being brutally killed. It also isn't something so disturbing as a character being endlessly tortured by a complete psychopath.

It's a character who is likeable, but at that point in the series is still more of a "bad" guy, who is a dick to many characters. He's a smart ass, he's smug and in the scene he's trying to use his stature and influence to get himself out of trouble. It isn't a brutal, depressing killing, it's a moment of immense humbling for a character that has been incredibly cocky and essentially coasting through life as an entitled pretty boy (to the audiences perspective at that point in the series). It's something that the character might even deserve. It's a reminder to the audience that "Nope, this isn't a world where you can just smoothly talk yourself out of trouble." It's a subversion of expectation, an intentional clash, by having the music tonally "siding" with the characters who cut Jaime's hand off instead of with Jaime himself. It's a raucous moment for them, where they would cut his hand off and laugh about it while returning to the fire with a pint in hand. The music is a statement about the world as much as anything else. "You're one of the best swordfighters in the land? Tough shit, we're cutting off your sword hand and we don't give a fuck, we're carrying on drinking while you cry in the corner." It's a jarringly violent moment as it's shot very bluntly in one shot, and hangs on it as you almost don't perceive what has happened, and then the hard cut to black and the period inappropriate music only emphasizes the surprise of the moment.

That's all fine and I respect it. Thanks for outlining your thoughts. But for me, it was ridiculously jarring and ripped me out of the moment. And that's just how I felt and still feel - it didn't work for me. Can we agree to disagree?

We're complaining, but at least these episode endings would liven Westeros up with more than two songs. The Dornishman's Wife and Hey, Ho, Where'd My Sausage Go? would've added some real color to the world, especially as rendered by our finest modern rock bands.

Tenacious D should have been contacted to record Hey, Ho, Where'd My Sausage Go. What a missed opportunity.

In all seriousness though, I am curious as to whether the band cover tradition will continue this year. We're due our second cover of The Bear and the Maiden Fair.

 

[kirblar]

Yeah, the hand chop is a shock moment, and the modern music adds to the effect.

 

[Showaddy]

Gotta agree that Iv'e grown to like it on re-watches, hated it at the time though.

D & D having Jaime getting his head cut off in Dorne followed by a rock version of The Dornishman's Wife would be about as ultimate a troll as you can get though.

 

[bengraven]

To add to the Stannis/Robb thing, I understand that Stannis saw him as an ursurper, but of all those vying for the throne you would think he would have found common cause with Robb. I think a perfect world would have found Robb supporting Stannis as his father did for Stannis' brother. Had Robb known that his father supported Stannis I wonder if he would have waited and called the banners for Stannis.

Then again, had his father known that he would declare himself King in the North, I think Ned would have nipped that in the bud quickly.

 

[Iksenpets]

To add to the Stannis/Robb thing, I understand that Stannis saw him as an ursurper, but of all those vying for the throne you would think he would have found common cause with Robb. I think a perfect world would have found Robb supporting Stannis as his father did for Stannis' brother. Had Robb known that his father supported Stannis I wonder if he would have waited and called the banners for Stannis.

Then again, had his father known that he would declare himself King in the North, I think Ned would have nipped that in the bud quickly.

In the book at least, I think Stannis most sympathized with Robb out of his enemies. Renly was an outright usurper, and even worse was betraying his own brother. Joffrey was an abomination and an awful king, but at least his followers had legitimate reasons to believe he was the real king, even if those reasons were based on the Lannisters' lies. Robb was a traitor, no doubt, but he at least had some historical precedent for his independence bid, and Joffrey's crimes against his family really were bad enough to warrant some response.

 

[UraMallas]

Not the one I was hoping for.

Agreed.

 

[Lothar]

I agree with Griffy. I like the song choice there. The bigger crime was not having Rains of Castamere play during the credits after the Red Wedding. I hate silent credits. You can't read the lyrics like you can in the book so I think the song needed to be there. People would have really paid attention to what the song was saying when chances are they paid no mind to it before. I guess ending the episode with "And not a soul left to hear" would have been too perfect for them.

 

[RaidenZR]

But for me, it was ridiculously jarring and ripped me out of the moment. And that's just how I felt and still feel - it didn't work for me.

For what it's worth, I agree with you wholeheartedly.I still find it jarring on rewatches. I find it a pretty silly to be honest, and completely anachronistic with the good choices the show does make.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

For what it's worth, I agree with you wholeheartedly.I still find it jarring on rewatches. I find it a pretty silly to be honest, and completely anachronistic with the good choices the show does make.

Yeah it was terrible.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Yeah it was terrible.

.

Terribly jarring choice in music.

 

[bengraven]

In the book at least, I think Stannis most sympathized with Robb out of his enemies. Renly was an outright usurper, and even worse was betraying his own brother. Joffrey was an abomination and an awful king, but at least his followers had legitimate reasons to believe he was the real king, even if those reasons were based on the Lannisters' lies. Robb was a traitor, no doubt, but he at least had some historical precedent for his independence bid, and Joffrey's crimes against his family really were bad enough to warrant some response.

I keep thinking there's a line, somewhere around the time with the leeches, where someone mentions Robb or Stannis mentions Robb and he's like "He's also vying for the throne - makes him just as bad as everyone else".

Can't remember though I know I'm going to end up googling it and having an answer in a few minutes.

 

[foxtrot3d]

I keep thinking there's a line, somewhere around the time with the leeches, where someone mentions Robb or Stannis mentions Robb and he's like "He's also vying for the throne - makes him just as bad as everyone else".

Can't remember though I know I'm going to end up googling it and having an answer in a few minutes.

I think you're remembering the beginning of CoK as well as the first episode of S2. Maester Cressen in the books (Davos in the show) suggests allying with Robb Stark and Stannis replies:

Books:

"A green boy," said Stannis, "and another false king. Am I to accept a broken realm?
...
I make common cause with no one...The Starks seek to steal half my kingdom, even as the Lannisters have stolen my throne and my own sweet brother the swords and service and strongholds that are mine by rights. They are all usurpers, and they are all my enemies."

Show:

(After Davos suggests allying with Robb)
"He'd steal the Northern half of my kingdom, I've always served thieves according to their desserts as you well know Ser Davos. Jofferey, Renly, Robb Stark, they're all thieves. They'll bend the knee or I'll destroy them."

Of course when he later speaks to Jon Snow in ASoS he does mention that Robb Stark had courage, but that had he done his duty and stayed at home as Lord of Winterfell he would most likely be alive.

 

[Forsaken82]

In the book at least, I think Stannis most sympathized with Robb out of his enemies. Renly was an outright usurper, and even worse was betraying his own brother. Joffrey was an abomination and an awful king, but at least his followers had legitimate reasons to believe he was the real king, even if those reasons were based on the Lannisters' lies. Robb was a traitor, no doubt, but he at least had some historical precedent for his independence bid, and Joffrey's crimes against his family really were bad enough to warrant some response.

I don't think Stannis ever had sympathy for Robb... Robb didn't even want the throne, and yet Stannis still viewed him as a threat because his people labeled him King in the North. Stannis took offense to the label and demanded he pledge fealty...

If he had sympathy for robb, he never would have put his name to a leech.

 

[foxtrot3d]

I don't think Stannis ever had sympathy for Robb... Robb didn't even want the throne, and yet Stannis still viewed him as a threat because his people labeled him King in the North. Stannis took offense to the label and demanded he pledge fealty...

If he had sympathy for robb, he never would have put his name to a leech.

Stannis can still sympathize with a person but yet recognize he has a duty to uphold. He still regrets having to kill Renly but he had still understands that he was left with no choice in the situation.

 

[biosnake20]

Aidan Gillen talks Littlefinger and Sansa in Season 5

A few days ago the official trailer for the fifth season of Game of Thrones was released… Can you tell us something about the evolution of Lord Baelish?

AG: “This year I can reveal even less than before: at this point in the series, the authors are increasingly detaching from the books and are inventing many things… many things will happen in the fifth season that are not in the novels. Last year it woudn’t have made ​​much difference if I had revealed something about my character, because so much of it it was already in the books… but now it’s all new. I can say that my character and Sansa Stark are setting out on a journey through the Vale to take control of House Arryn… For Lord Baelish there will be more adventure, more travel and an important relationship with Sansa Stark.”

This could mean it's completely made up stuff or TWoW stuff if he doesn't know it's from there.

 

[Ogimachi]

I don't think Stannis ever had sympathy for Robb... Robb didn't even want the throne, and yet Stannis still viewed him as a threat because his people labeled him King in the North. Stannis took offense to the label and demanded he pledge fealty...

If he had sympathy for robb, he never would have put his name to a leech.

"These pardoned lords would do well to reflect on that. Good men and true will fight for Joffrey, wrongly believing him the true king. A northman might even say the same of Robb Stark. But these lords who flocked to my brother’s banners knew him for a usurper. They turned their backs on their rightful king for no better reason than dreams of power and glory, and I have marked them for what they are. Pardoned them, yes. Forgiven. But not forgotten."

It's not like he hated Robb, but as he told Jon, he should've done the right thing. The moment Robb was crowned was the moment he abandoned everything his father taught him, and the consequences are some of the most interesting bits in ASOIAF.

Stannis can still sympathize with a person but yet recognize he has a duty to uphold. He still regrets having to kill Renly but he had still understands that he was left with no choice in the situation.

He doesn't know he killed him, though.

 

[Loke13]

Aidan Gillen talks Littlefinger and Sansa in Season 5



This could mean it's completely made up stuff or TWoW stuff if he doesn't know it's from there.

Oh man this really gets me excited. Can't wait to see what Littlfinger is up to in the Vale and also when he

Spoiler

Comes back to Kingslanding in time for Cersei's walk.

He doesn't know he killed him, though.

What?Yes he does. He may not have known the exact method of his death but he knows he was responsible for it.

 

[badcrumble]

If they're giving Varys more to do over in Essos, it's possible that they'll give Varys's role in ADWD over to Littlefinger in S5.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

This could mean it's completely made up stuff or TWoW stuff if he doesn't know it's from there.

I think/hope it's the former because you'd think the writers would have told him "Hey, all of this upcoming stuff is from the unreleased book The Winds of Winter, so don't share any details in interviews!" He would at least be able to tell people that, and wouldn't have to tell people that it's all made up unless it really was.

 

[Moff]

you mean littlefinger killing kevan? no way

 

[badcrumble]

you mean littlefinger killing kevan? no way

I don't seriously think we'll see that. Just trying to think of ways to justify bringing Littlefinger back to King's Landing (and, logically, leaving Sansa somewhere else, because she sure as hell isn't going there).

 

[Iksenpets]

I don't seriously think we'll see that. Just trying to think of ways to justify bringing Littlefinger back to King's Landing (and, logically, leaving Sansa somewhere else, because she sure as hell isn't going there).

He mentions the High Sparrow in the interview, so he may meet with him? I could see him coming to handle his brothel business in light of the Sparrows' crackdown. Or, a bit more out there, he could be trying to negotiate with the High Sparrow for an annulment for Sansa's marriage, to push his schemes with her.

 

[biosnake20]

Apparently there are two new sight teasers out today. A Brienne/podrick and a Jon/mance one. Both are portions of a scene and not just random snippets.

 

[T-Rex.]

I don't think Stannis ever had sympathy for Robb... Robb didn't even want the throne, and yet Stannis still viewed him as a threat because his people labeled him King in the North. Stannis took offense to the label and demanded he pledge fealty...

If he had sympathy for robb, he never would have put his name to a leech.

Doesn't he hesitate slightly during the leeches bit before mentioning Robb's name? I might be remembering it wrong but I'm certain he hesitates in the book before saying it while he doesn't hesitate when mentioning Joffrey etc.

Fake edit: Found the quote, "The last was in the king's hand. This one he studied a moment as it writhed between his fingers. "The usurper," he said at last. "Robb Stark." And he threw it on the flames."

 

[badcrumble]

Apparently there are two new sight teasers out today. A Brienne/podrick and a Jon/mance one. Both are portions of a scene and not just random snippets.

Super curious to see where they're taking Brienne/Podrick.

 

[biosnake20]

Brienne is telling pod not to follow her and that all the good lords are dead.

Jon is saying to Mance that he didn't do it all for glory or fame, but for his people and that his pride shouldn't be more important, to which Mance answered: "Pride? Fuck my pride.

These are the last visions. Hopefully this means a new trailer soon.

 

[biosnake20]

Brienne sight teaser

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-fNojrUhwso&feature=youtu.be

Jon and Mance teaser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjnOcnzJJUQ

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Brienne sight teaser

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-fNojrUhwso&feature=youtu.be

Is...is that a video shot in portrait mode, of a video played on a mobile phone in portrait mode?

 

[-griffy-]

Is...is that a video shot in portrait mode, of a video played on a mobile phone in portrait mode?

There are so many layers of orientation fuckery going on it's hurting me.

 

[NeoGiff]

Fuck my pride.

 

[Iksenpets]

Glad it looks like we're at least getting one goodance dialog scene. I kind of hope they manage to work in his story about why he abandoned the Watch. I'm still kind of mad that wasn't in season 3.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Jesus I read that three times, then realized you meant good Mance.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Brienne sight teaser

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-fNojrUhwso&feature=youtu.be

Jon and Mance teaser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjnOcnzJJUQ

Maybe it just cause we've gotten criminally little of Mance thus far, but I'm very exited to finally get some Mance.

 

[Patriots7]

"These pardoned lords would do well to reflect on that. Good men and true will fight for Joffrey, wrongly believing him the true king. A northman might even say the same of Robb Stark. But these lords who flocked to my brother’s banners knew him for a usurper. They turned their backs on their rightful king for no better reason than dreams of power and glory, and I have marked them for what they are. Pardoned them, yes. Forgiven. But not forgotten."

It's not like he hated Robb, but as he told Jon, he should've done the right thing. The moment Robb was crowned was the moment he abandoned everything his father taught him, and the consequences are some of the most interesting bits in ASOIAF.


He doesn't know he killed him, though.

I love that in a vacuum, that could easily apply to Robert and his rebellion.
Stannis is a hypocrite. Never understood the love for the character. He backed his brother who usurped his cousin, and then claims that he should be respected and revered as king due to his birthright.

 

[Loke13]

Brienne sight teaser

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-fNojrUhwso&feature=youtu.be

Jon and Mance teaser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjnOcnzJJUQ

"Pride? Fuck my pride."

Yes! After being so underused lets hope we get some good scenes of Mance this season.

I love that in a vacuum, that could easily apply to Robert and his rebellion.
Stannis is a hypocrite. Never understood the love for the character. He backed his brother who usurped his cousin, and then claims that he should be respected and revered as king due to his birthright.

Isn't there a bit of dialogue in the Blu-ray extras where Stannis calls out his own hypocrisy of siding with Robert?

 

[Gila]

Brienne sight teaser

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-fNojrUhwso&feature=youtu.be

Jon and Mance teaser

 

[M.Bluth]

I love that in a vacuum, that could easily apply to Robert and his rebellion.
Stannis is a hypocrite. Never understood the love for the character. He backed his brother who usurped his cousin, and then claims that he should be respected and revered as king due to his birthright.

I think Stannis did say he followed Robert because his duty towards his brother took precedence in that situation. Can't remember where it was, though.

 

[Moff]

I love that in a vacuum, that could easily apply to Robert and his rebellion.
Stannis is a hypocrite. Never understood the love for the character. He backed his brother who usurped his cousin, and then claims that he should be respected and revered as king due to his birthright.

I don't see how that's wrong.
Robert had legitimacy through conquest, he rebelled, fought and won
Stannis has legitimacy thorugh birthright, he is the oldest brother and should be the successor.

renly does not have that claim, he was simply popular and stannis very unpopular, that's why people sided with renly, not because of legitimacy or claim. so stannis is right to call that out.

and I don't think it's fair to say that the lords who sided with robert against aerys II did it for power and glory, aerys II was a mad tyrant who killed lords at a whim.

 

[Last Hearth]

There is a huge difference between Robert and Renly's action.

Robert rebelled because the alternative was let Aerys cut off his head, he wasn't even particularly interested in the crown although it would be the natural by product if his rebellion was successful

Renly did it just because he felt like it. He doesn't claim that Joffrey was illegitimate, or than Joffrey had wronged him. Nor does he claim that Stannis has wronged him. He also doesn't do it because he wants to bring about some change through his successful attainment of power, like Dany is trying to free the slaves. Oh sure he talks about him being a good king but it's clear he doesn't have anything specific in mind, he just assumes he'd make the better king because he's a better person than Stannis or Joffrey.

He did it because he felt like being king. Renly was a selfish pompous ass and he got want he deserved.

 

[NeoGiff]

Alleged S05E08 (Hardhome) spoilers.

WARNING: ALTHOUGH UNCONFIRMED, THIS MAY WELL RUIN YOUR ENJOYMENT OF THE SCENE. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Spoiler

Tormund will die this season.
Rattleshirt is selling slaves at Hardhome. Tormund is pissed and begs Jon to let him go take care of it. Jon thinks as LC he should tag along and does. At Hardhome a fight ensues. During the fight, the Night’s King shows up and starts reanimating the dead, especially those falling over the side of a cliff. Everyone panics and starts to flee, chaos everywhere. They charge at Jon who is left alone. Tormund refuses to flee and pounces on the Wights and throws Jon to the floor, protecting him. He fights off like 20 Wights trying to get at Jon before dying. They are giving Tormund a heroic death on the show, protecting Jon Snow. Before dying he tells Jon Snow to leave, get to the boats. There’s a fire torch near by. In his final act Tormund sets himself and the other Wights nearby on fire, so he can’t be brought back. Final shot of 508 is the eyes of the Night’s King meeting the eyes of Jon Snow.

Again, this is unconfirmed... but pretty cool if true, in my opinion.

 

[Moff]

if done right this will be one of the most badass

Spoiler

fantasy

Scenes we ever saw on any screen

 

[Bigby]

That sounds pretty cool.

 

[Tuffty]

Honestly, does anyone here have any interest in the Catch the Throne mixtapes?

I was writing something up and found this hilarious quote from the Killswitch Engage singer on the band's contribution:

Jesse admits he hadn't seen the show when the band was approached to write a song for the mixtape. But he was given a general idea along with keywords (Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken being the House Martell motto obviously) which basically plays into the kind of music and lyrics KSE are known for so it mustn't have been too hard. In his defense, he says he is fully caught up with the show in a manner of weeks and loves the show.

Don't take the mixtapes too seriously, it's not like the songs will be included in the show. I'm just surprised The Sword haven't been approached as they literally have a song called 'To Take The Black' (and it's amazing)

 

[Exterminieren]

That spoiler sounds really fucking cool.

Spoiler

Tormund deserves a good death.

 

[NeoGiff]

Reposting for the new page in case people missed it.

Alleged S05E08 (Hardhome) spoilers.

WARNING: ALTHOUGH UNCONFIRMED, THIS MAY WELL RUIN YOUR ENJOYMENT OF THE SCENE. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Spoiler

Tormund will die this season.
Rattleshirt is selling slaves at Hardhome. Tormund is pissed and begs Jon to let him go take care of it. Jon thinks as LC he should tag along and does. At Hardhome a fight ensues. During the fight, the Night’s King shows up and starts reanimating the dead, especially those falling over the side of a cliff. Everyone panics and starts to flee, chaos everywhere. They charge at Jon who is left alone. Tormund refuses to flee and pounces on the Wights and throws Jon to the floor, protecting him. He fights off like 20 Wights trying to get at Jon before dying. They are giving Tormund a heroic death on the show, protecting Jon Snow. Before dying he tells Jon Snow to leave, get to the boats. There’s a fire torch near by. In his final act Tormund sets himself and the other Wights nearby on fire, so he can’t be brought back. Final shot of 508 is the eyes of the Night’s King meeting the eyes of Jon Snow.

Again, this is unconfirmed... but pretty cool if true, in my opinion.