secondspace
Member
The Unsullied getting stranded feels like a very contrived set up for them having to fight their way across the continent on foot, a nod to Anabasis. The pace the show is going at, they'll complete that plot in an episode.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
BreezyLimbo
Banned
No its because Tywin didnt burn down allegiances even though itd be beneficial for him
hydrophilic attack
Member
For now, it's convenient that Dany is powerless, so that whatever W she may get in the future seems surprising. The Unsullied won't make it back to her until that is resolved, and it becomes convenient for them to reunite with her
Pagusas
Elden Member
When was this revealed ?
Are you saying that if Tywin had the military power to take Highgarden he wouldn't had used it?
If all the Tyrells had was food they would have been overthrown by any other house, they had an important army, they even made a huge display of it in season 6 when they tried to take the capital and rescue Margeary.
Not everyone is following all the marketing materials. In other series OTs there are spoilers for the episode previews, which is also marketing material.
Red Arremer
Member
In all fairness, there is a distinction between the Tyrells, as in only House Tyrell, and the "Tyrells" as in the Reach as a whole, which means the Tyrells with all their vassals and banners.
We do know that at least House Tarly has swapped sides to the Lannister, it's safe to assume other houses of the Reach have done so as well.
That said, it's still ridiculous how Highgarden fell like a bowling pin and the explanation for it was "We don't fight very well", despite the fact we've seen plenty of evidence to the contrary, what with the fact that the troops of the Reach liberated King's Landing of Stannis' forces, and Loras was considered one of the best fighters in the Seven Kingdoms.
We do know that at least House Tarly has swapped sides to the Lannister, it's safe to assume other houses of the Reach have done so as well.
That said, it's still ridiculous how Highgarden fell like a bowling pin and the explanation for it was "We don't fight very well", despite the fact we've seen plenty of evidence to the contrary, what with the fact that the troops of the Reach liberated King's Landing of Stannis' forces, and Loras was considered one of the best fighters in the Seven Kingdoms.
bodyofanamerican
Member
No writer of any show, let alone the biggest show in the world, should be responding to critics on fucking Twitter of all places. Did Cogman leave that up? So many creative people should do what Lindelof did and just get off the platform if it brings that kind of need to respond out of you.
There are 4 seasons worth of tywin desperately trying to form alliances with the Tyrell army through marriage, because they are repeatedly shown to be equal (or stronger) than Lannisters in terms of power, wealth and armies
A couple lines of dialogue in one episode and people think "tywin didn't overthrow the weak Tyrells because he was a nice guy".
What
A couple lines of dialogue in one episode and people think "tywin didn't overthrow the weak Tyrells because he was a nice guy".
What
Trump has confused the issue.
Maintenance
Member
bodyofanamerican
Member
Wow, even more!
And it's obvious the writers know, no other reason to throw that line for Olenna, which is just so damn cheap, "we need to nerf Dany's allies to make some tension, but we are so incapable of coming up with something that makes sense that we will let dead Tywin explain it to dead Oleena in the offscreen afterworld".
Seriously, Cogman admitting they don't care is crazy dumb. Should have just not responded or, if he really wanted to speak, done a proper interview. Now he just confirmed what we've been saying about the creators and their disinterest in logic and cohesion.
I thought Highgarden fell easily because the troops were on the way to Kings Landing, just as Tyrion planned it.
Red Arremer
Member
Then have Jaime make a note of how Highgarden is only guarded by a token force. They did the same thing in the same episode mere minutes beforehand with Grey Worm - who didn't even know the exact size of the Lannister forces, just an estimation - saying that there should be more.
Jaime, especially with Tarly on his side, should know exactly how big the Tyrell army should be. Yet there is no mention made by Tarly or Jaime (obviously the QoT wouldn't mention it because she wouldn't want to give away the plans). Therefore, the only conclusion to make is that the entire Tyrell army was there and got flattened by a part of the Lannister forces.
Tyrion planned to take Casterly Rock because he thought the main force of Lannister troops would be stationed at Casterly Rock.
It's doubtful that Olenna's precious flowers would have mobilized without their main bannermen, who stabbed them in the back as it turns out.
TheFuzz
Member
I thought the same. Olenna didn't think the Lannisters would willingly give up Casterly Rock so was shocked when they (obviously) did.
You're really expecting too much from D and D.
It's more likely that, just as with Dorne and the Greyjoys, the Tyrell forces are dead to the last man.
Hence the "Now the rains weep o'er our halls." line.
There isn't some heroic brigade of Tyrell knights who just showed up at King's Landing.
It's more likely that, just as with Dorne and the Greyjoys, the Tyrell forces are dead to the last man.
Hence the "Now the rains weep o'er our halls." line.
There isn't some heroic brigade of Tyrell knights who just showed up at King's Landing.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
They're trying to make it so that Dany has no other option than to take the city by force and kill thousands
Or just
fuck Jaime sideways hence the video of him riding against dragonfire.
Maintenance
Member
Fans will hand-wave away any slights against their faves.
Psychoward
Banned
Not really
Psychoward
Banned
That would make sense but it's not going to happen. They're all dead.
No, it's because they retconned things in this episode that the Tyrells don't know how to fight.
You know, Dany shouldn't really feel so defeated by all of this.
She got what she wanted out of the Greyjoys. She diverted the Lannister forces by making them attack their own people.
Aside from stranding the unsullied at Casterly Rock, she hasn't really lost anything other than some Westerosi allies she might have otherwise had to fight.
She got what she wanted out of the Greyjoys. She diverted the Lannister forces by making them attack their own people.
Aside from stranding the unsullied at Casterly Rock, she hasn't really lost anything other than some Westerosi allies she might have otherwise had to fight.
I thought it was just because the Tyrells were rich, not a military power. That's why Tywin told Cersei about the mines running dry when she's bitching about having to marry Loras. When were they shown to be a military power?
ClosingADoor
Member
That would mean the siege basically lasted a day or so. Because the second that Lannister army would be spotted (which should be soon, since these guys are marching through your own lands) a raven would be sent to the army and they would come running home to defend their castle.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
ramsay "warden of the north" bolton had no clue the vale army marched across like half of his realm.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
i don't think the plan ever involved the dorne army getting on any ships? i think they were just meant to march north and join up with the reach army.
They were going south to pick them up, which geographically makes no sense, they should have picked them up on their way to Dragonstone, but whatever, so in theory dornish soldiers are in the south, waiting and now without a leader.
Just watch as they are never mentioned again, their rulers being imprisoned and/or murdered will suddenly have no consequences.
Gunslinger
Member
Something tells me the Cersei story ark will not be finished this season. And whitewalker will barely be in it this season. And next season probably only in the final episode. I felt like the whitewalker are just afterthought and the show should have been better without them.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
The focus is on individual character developments. Jon and Dany, Cersei and Jaime, Olenna, Ellaria, the Stark kids...etc.
The masses probably don't give a shit about tactics and logistics like book fans do.
The whitewalker stuff is one episode, two tops. A big battle or maybe even less than that, and we're done.
Gunslinger
Member
Yeah that's what I meant stupid phone and auto typing. I think they should have just had the Cersei ark as final and white walkers shouldn't exist. Then the show wouldn't feel so rushed.
I wasted too much time reading about theories regarding future battles, military strategy and army logistics in the books only for the show to have the "depleted" Lannister army defeat the "unscathed" Tyrell army on a lazy afternoon.
If this is the pace the season will continue to employ, I think season 7 is on track to be the worst season yet.
Man, watching this and it feels like a different show.
hydrophilic attack
Member
So the Euron wipes out the lazy South, where the rulers allow perfectly able-bodied people to laze around in the water all day, basically overnight
Meanwhile, the politically powerful regional center prospers. And of course the banks are bailed out.
Meanwhile, the politically powerful regional center prospers. And of course the banks are bailed out.
They are not even doing that, what they did with Bran is horrible, I do get why he would become emotionless but that development was nowhere, last we saw him he is in the weird wood tree outside of the wall still having emotions, still mourning Hodor and company, he wasn't an emotionless weirdo, then boom, detached aloof Bran all of the sudden.
Human Trashcan
Banned
The focus on logistics and travel times is frankly boring and takes away from the show's much more significant issues re: bad plotting, characterization, dialogue, acting, and directing. That doesn't make for funny memes, granted, but all Cogman basically said was "a scene of Sansa getting a raven is not as dramatically interesting as her reunion with Bran coming as somewhat of a surprise to both her and the viewer because we were set up to expect either Bran or Arya to show up". Which is true!
And Euron's fleet, who cares? This has been happening since season 1, pretty much. Last season's finale had Varys teleporting between continents. It's par for the course. The better question is how on Earth is Tyrion suddenly stupid enough to think that taking an impoverished Casterly Rock is a smart tactical move? How the heck did Jaime take Highgarden with no effort at all? Things are happening because the story demands them (Dany needs setbacks), not because it makes sense from a character point of view.
Focusing on minor logistical issues, if funny, kind of misses the forest for the trees.
And Euron's fleet, who cares? This has been happening since season 1, pretty much. Last season's finale had Varys teleporting between continents. It's par for the course. The better question is how on Earth is Tyrion suddenly stupid enough to think that taking an impoverished Casterly Rock is a smart tactical move? How the heck did Jaime take Highgarden with no effort at all? Things are happening because the story demands them (Dany needs setbacks), not because it makes sense from a character point of view.
Focusing on minor logistical issues, if funny, kind of misses the forest for the trees.
This is all very true. The logistical issues wouldn't matter if the scripts were good.
Psychoward
Banned
if only those weren't mostly bad...
hydrophilic attack
Member
When setbacks can come out of nowhere when it's convenient, then why wouldn't we expect surprise turnarounds when convenient? This stuff does cheapen basically the entire war. We don't need to worry about Dany doing poorly, because it has already been firmly established that the writers can pull whatever out of their ass to rectify any situation and get where they want
Principate
Saint Titanfall
I assume on Casterly rock's end it's test a large portion of lanistar forces are stationed there which was the real prize. High garden wan't expecting an attack and it's troops not all that war ready.
This aren't minor logistical issues, it's the most important plot point, how these armies defeat each other is the whole point of this part of the story. Dany arrived to conquer and rule, you can't just brush off how are we supposed to get there.