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[Freeza Under The Shower]

Nah, I think Varys was just overreacting because the Dickon fire brought back bad memories.

Yeah.. "oh no, those two House dickheads died and nobody else because they just betrayed their old masters but then refuse 'a foreigner' who brought actual fucking dragons -and Dothraki- to claim the throne her granddaddy fucking forged in dragonfire himself", doesn't quite sound like a bad trade.

There's a symmetry there with Bronn realizing gold coins don't work against dragons (last episode) -or the dead for that matter-, whereas the Tarly's and Cersei still don't realize that yet. Something about empty halls comes to mind.

It was somewhat awkwardly presented though (if I'm reading the intent correctly), even if Drogon on that rock was actually a nice shot.

It is weird to think anyone playing the game would be a good guy or should have extended mercy for those who want to keep playing despite being told it's over.

edit: also, Dany already made that mistake with the masters of Mereen.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I for sure agree it wasn't the smartest decision politically I just don't think it was a bad decision from a show runner perspective. Also don't totally disagree in world either but I get Varys is wary and she should heed her advisors a bit more. So far though she's only barely stepped outside the lines of what's acceptable (especially given the mountains reign of terror when he was still alive)

It also bugged me he Tarly kept talking as though she was a foreigner. In her way yes she is but she was born in Westeros and has as much right to the throne as anyone else at this point.

About little finger. It's nice to see him actually being smart again but I swear to god if Sansa or Arya die because of something he does I'm going to flip my shit.

Really hope we get some more background on the Night King before next season. I'm not going to be satisfied with just a big battle with them

Randyll was just being a hard-ass who got himself owned. Tyrion's speech probably emboldened him to double down because in the end he was already a traitor who only did it because Jaime promised him a huge promotion.

 

[m_shortpants]

Is the annulment of "Ragger" confirmation that Jon is Jon Targaryen?

Thought that was a minor giveaway

Quoting for new page

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

On one hand, burning the Tarly's alive brings back some bad memories of the Starks with her father. On the other hand, fuck the Tarly's and their turncoat asses. Tarly should've been gathering his forces to seize King's Landing as soon as he heard his liege lord and queen were blown up along with hundreds of others at KL. Instead he marches on with the mad queen Cersei to murder Olenna and hundreds of Tyrell soldiers and plunders his own homeland for the benefit of the Lannisters. Fuuuuuck em.

And lol at thinking the common people will give a shit about Dany's harsh actions. We've already established multiple times this season that they're as fickle as grass in a hurricane.

Danys PR is already top notch. She sets slaves free, while Cersei blows up a church in her own capital city.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Quoting for new page

lol yes

 

[Angry Grimace]

Is the annulment of "Ragger" confirmation that Jon is Jon Targaryen?

Thought that was a minor giveaway

Assuming his name is even "Jon" because "Jon Targaryen" is a weird name given the Targaryen naming convention. It's probably like Jonerys or some shit.

 

[Neece]

It was mentioned in the show only thread but it's true. How have none of Dany or Jon's advisors suggested a marriage alliance between Dany and Jon?

The reason Dany gave for leaving Daario behind was so that she could be available should she need to remarry into a powerful house. Well, here it is. They keep their crowns and solve the thing keeping them from moving forward.

Varys, Tyrion, even Missandei. In the weeks (months?) Jon has been there, someone should have proposed it by now. Could have even had a scene of Davos suggesting it to Jon in private and Missandei suggesting it to Dany in private and both turning it down for reasons. Though that sounds a bit like fanfiction sitcom shit now that I write it out (not that it has stopped other scenes this season).

 

[Edzi]

This episode felt like it was a cliff notes version of an actual story.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It was mentioned in the show only thread but it's true. How have none of Dany or Jon's advisors suggested a marriage alliance between Dany and Jon?

The entire reason Dany gave for leaving Daario behind was so that she could be available should she need to remarry a powerful house. Well, here it is. They keep their crowns and solve the thing keeping them from moving forward.

Varys, Tyrion, even Missandei. In the weeks (months?) Jon has been there, someone should have proposed it by now. Could have even had a scene of Davos suggesting it to Jon in private and Missandei suggesting it to Dany in private and both turning it down for reasons. Though that sounds a bit like fanfiction sitcom shit now that I write it out (not that it has stopped other scenes this season).

They don't mention it because it's irrelevant. Jon wouldn't agree to it for any of the normal reasons, but more importantly Dany gains nothing out of it. Dany has no need of the North as it is and would utterly crush them if she sent her forces there.

 

[EviLore]

Is the annulment of "Ragger" confirmation that Jon is Jon Targaryen?

Thought that was a minor giveaway

Yeah, Jon is the trueborn son of Ragger Targaryen, Prince of Menstruation.

 

[Apt101]

Also pretty sure Bronn will kill Jamie. All someone has to do his pay him when it's more advantageous that he serve them.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Between Gendry showing up, Sam being seemingly positioned to be the next head of House Tarly, and a jumble of unrelated characters being thrown together to venture north of the wall, this show really took a wild veer into fanservice territory.

At this rate we'll have Sandor x Sansa romance at the season finale.

 

[dsp]

Nah, I think Varys was just overreacting because the Dickon fire brought back bad memories.

 

[Dany]

So is Dany

Hell yeah I was.

 

[captjohnboyd]

Also pretty sure Bronn will kill Jamie. All someone has to do his pay him when it's more advantageous that he serve them.

Eh this whole hug with Cersei and her "never betray me again" (um he fucking didn't you dolt he wasn't told he was meeting Tyrion) sure seemed like crazy foreshadowing to me. No way those two don't off each other somehow or Jaime kills himself to kill her somehow

 

[Tiktaalik]

I realize that Rhaegar is the Prince, but still it seems a bit absurd that he'd be able to convince a Septon to annul his marriage to Elia after she bore him two children.

 

[jdstorm]

I guess I should have always felt this way, but actually hearing that Rhaegar dissolved his marriage really makes him and Lyanna look really shitty. There is no joy in that "love" story.

In a world where the Targs would have won, would the marriage between Lyanna and Rhaegar mean that Aegon and Rhaenys were disinherited? After Elia nearly died giving birth to the little prince?

Unlikely. Dorne was/is cool with Polygamy, had a good relationship with both the Targs and Starks and new Elliara was very sick.

Seems likely that Rhaegar would have negotiated some sort of truce. That saw everyone looked after had he survived.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I realize that Rhaegar is the Prince, but still it seems a bit absurd that he'd be able to convince a Septon to annul his marriage to Elia after she bore him two children.

A maester apparently. And he's the crown prince he can do basically anything. Aerys burned a fuckload of people alive and it wasn't until Rhaegar absconded with Lyanna that anyone did something about it. And that was primarily because Robert loved Lyanna.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

At this rate we'll have Sandor x Sansa romance at the season finale.

who wants this

 

[Tiktaalik]

who wants this

Tumblr

 

[Angry Grimace]

I guess I should have always felt this way, but actually hearing that Rhaegar dissolved his marriage really makes him and Lyanna look really shitty. There is no joy in that "love" story.

In a world where the Targs would have won, would the marriage between Lyanna and Rhaegar mean that Aegon and Rhaenys were disinherited? After Elia nearly died giving birth to the little prince?

Rhaegar's marriage to Elia was straight up negotiated. It sucks for the kids though. I guess rued be Aegon Waters and Rhaenys Waters.

 

[dabig2]

And I feel like we should talk about Rhaegar's annulment. Like WTF? How is this not common knowledge among everyone when this famous archmaester wrote it down. Was this hidden on purpose by the maesters? Like, that's pretty big news for the realm even if it doesn't mean much to Sam who was barely listening.

That itself you could write a novel about. Think of the succession crisis that would loom even if Rhaegar won the war and didn't die, since an annulment basically means Rhaegar's first children become great bastards. I imagine Dorne would've gone to war over that alone.

And is there a woman more pitiable than Elia Martell? Not only did she suffer immensely to bring Rhaegar his 2 children, but is then kept hostage by his batshit father as Rhaegar spends most of the war a thousand miles away fucking around with a teenage girl from a rival house. She then gets brutally raped and murdered AFTER watching her children savagely murdered.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Tumblr

#sansan has a nice ring to it, but other than that, the idea is pretty ew

 

[Mortemis]

Assuming his name is even "Jon" because "Jon Targaryen" is a weird name given the Targaryen naming convention. It's probably like Jonerys or some shit.

We've had Aegon and Aemon, so maybe Aejon.

who wants this

Joffery probably would've enjoyed it

 

[Neece]

A maester apparently. And he's the crown prince he can do basically anything. Alerts burned a fuckload of people alive and it wasn't until Rhaegar absconded with Lyanna that anyone did something about it. And that was primarily because Robert loved Lyanna.

It was high septon Maynard.

 

[Durrzerker]

Can someone tell me what the scroll Arya read said? I couldn't make out that font.

 

[Angry Grimace]

We've had Aegon and Aemon, so maybe Aejon.



Joffery probably would've enjoyed it

I mean at least they have interacted. I saw a guy advocating Dickon x Sansa the other day.

It's a Ship That Passes in the Night.

 

[dabig2]

Unlikely. Dorne was/is cool with Polygamy, had a good relationship with both the Targs and Starks and new Elliara was very sick.

Seems likely that Rhaegar would have negotiated some sort of truce. That saw everyone looked after had he survived.

Don't forget, Dorne was PISSED when the war began to the point that Aerys had to keep Elia hostage just to force them to fight for him. They might be cool with polygamy, but when it comes to ruling Westeros, they were quite clear that Elia should've been the only legit wife of Rhaegar. Not to mention they were incensed when Rhaegar showed up Elia by presenting the flower of beauty to Lyanna at the tourney a year prior to all of this.

I don't care how smooth of a talker Rhaegar is, I don't see Dorne just allowing all of this to pass.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

And I feel like we should talk about Rhaegar's annulment. Like WTF? How is this not common knowledge among everyone when this famous archmaester wrote it down. Was this hidden on purpose by the maesters? Like, that's pretty big news for the realm even if it doesn't mean much to Sam who was barely listening.

That itself you could write a novel about. Think of the succession crisis that would loom even if Rhaegar won the war and didn't die, since an annulment basically means Rhaegar's first children become great bastards. I imagine Dorne would've gone to war over that alone.

And is there a woman more pitiable than Elia Martell? Not only did she suffer immensely to bring Rhaegar his 2 children, but is then kept hostage by his batshit father as Rhaegar spends most of the war a thousand miles away fucking around with a teenage girl from a rival house. She then gets brutally raped and murdered AFTER watching her children savagely murdered.

I think the annulment was done in secret.

-Dorne wouldn't be happy with the fact that the children were made bastards
-The Mad King would probably not like Dorne breathing down his neck. So he kills everyone.


It seems the point of this famous archmaester, the way he's presented, is to show that he probably has a compulsive disorder and is extremely obsessive, to the point of writing down anything and everything. This includes the fact of the annulment, which doesn't necessarily mean he told others about it.

And because of the fact that this Maester wrote such meandering diaries, means that no other maester wanted to read through his bullshit. Thus, why Sam ends up with the duty, and why Gilly is the first to read that passage in probably forever.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

This episode felt like it was a cliff notes version of an actual story.

For better or worse, that's pretty much how the whole show has been since season 5 or so.

I imagine Dorne would be pissed off to find that out even now. But given that the great houses in the show consist of like one guy per family it wouldn't come up. The Martells are so minor in the show you'd probably have to explain the name at this point.

Um, aren't all the Martels dead now anyway?

On that subject, who is in charge there now?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Don't forget, Dorne was PISSED when the war began to the point that Aerys had to keep Elia hostage just to force them to fight for him. They might be cool with polygamy, but when it comes to ruling Westeros, they were quite clear that Elia should've been the only legit wife of Rhaegar. Not to mention they were incensed when Rhaegar showed up Elia by presenting the flower of beauty to Lyanna at the tourney a year prior to all of this.

I don't care how smooth of a talker Rhaegar is, I don't see Dorne just allowing all of this to pass.

I imagine Dorne would be pissed off to find that out even now. But given that the great houses in the show consist of like one guy per family it wouldn't come up. The Martells are so minor in the show you'd probably have to explain the name at this point.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

i do wonder if dany's populist fascism this season was inspired by the rise of trump

 

[wandering]

Can someone tell me what the scroll Arya read said? I couldn't make out that font.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/6tjepd/everythingthe_letter_littlefinger_found/

Robb, I write to you with a heavy heart. Our good king Robert is dead, killed from wounds he took in a boar hunt. Father has been charged with treason. He conspired with Robert's brothers against my beloved Joffrey and tried to steal his throne. The Lannisters are treating me very well and provide me with every comfort. I beg you: come to King's Landing, swear fealty to King Joffrey and prevent any strife between the great houses of Lannister and Stark.

Your faithful sister

Sansa

 

[Dash_Riprock]

i do wonder if dany's populist fascism this season was inspired by the rise of trump

Doubt it, too subtle.

D&D have proven themselves incapable of that.

 

[Dmax3901]

How about that direct reference to the Gendry meme.

 

[HandsomeCharles]

How about that direct reference to the Gendry meme.

I chuckled under my breath. I liked it!

 

[dabig2]

And because of the fact that this Maester wrote such meandering diaries, means that no other maester wanted to read through his bullshit. Thus, why Sam ends up with the duty, and why Gilly is the first to read that passage in probably forever.

I mean, I guess? But assuming this guy kept dates, people still would've prioritized and poured over his meticulous notes during times of great interests - like say around the time of the Robert's Rebellion or any other crises that this guy found himself involved in. But maybe that's just me.

I imagine Dorne would be pissed off to find that out even now. But given that the great houses in the show consist of like one guy per family it wouldn't come up. The Martells are so minor in the show you'd probably have to explain the name at this point.

Well in the show sure. But Dorne itself is quite large with a famous history of resisting the Iron Throne. I'm talking more hypothetically during the time of Robert's Rebellion where they were a lot more than just 1 name (and not extinct as they are in the show) and more powerful. Yeah, on the show it won't matter since they're all dead and all their subservient houses don't even exist.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I mean, I guess? But assuming this guy kept dates, people still would've prioritized and poured over his meticulous notes during times of great interests - like say around the time of the Robert's Rebellion or any other crises that this guy found himself involved in. But maybe that's just me.

If it's done in secret, they probably didn't know he was involved.

Also the log about the annulment was literally right after the number of steps and how many windows the cathedral had. It was literally just a little footnote in a page of meandering, lol.

 

[jdstorm]

And I feel like we should talk about Rhaegar's annulment. Like WTF? How is this not common knowledge among everyone when this famous archmaester wrote it down. Was this hidden on purpose by the maesters? Like, that's pretty big news for the realm even if it doesn't mean much to Sam who was barely listening.

That itself you could write a novel about. Think of the succession crisis that would loom even if Rhaegar won the war and didn't die, since an annulment basically means Rhaegar's first children become great bastards. I imagine Dorne would've gone to war over that alone.

And is there a woman more pitiable than Elia Martell? Not only did she suffer immensely to bring Rhaegar his 2 children, but is then kept hostage by his batshit father as Rhaegar spends most of the war a thousand miles away fucking around with a teenage girl from a rival house. She then gets brutally raped and murdered AFTER watching her children savagely murdered.

Joanna Lannister dying while giving birth to Tyrion really fucked everything up. About the only person who wouldn't be better off is Sam Tarly.


As a reminder. Joanna Lannister had negotiated that Jamie Lannister would marry Elia Martell and Cersi would marry Oberyn aka The Red Viper.

If Jamie had Married Elia, then Rhaegar would have been single and free to marry Lyanna. If Rhaegar had legally married Lyanna in less controversial circumstances, Robert's rebellion wouldn't have happened. Brandon Stark would have married Kat Tully, and virtually everyone would have lived relitively happy lives.

We may even have seen Stannis Baratheon as a member of the Kingsguard.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It's kind of silly how all these "great houses" have one family in them most of whom have like 2 kids.

I mean its like that for the Starks but there's at least some sort of explanation for it in the source material.

 

[Neece]

And because of the fact that this Maester wrote such meandering diaries, means that no other maester wanted to read through his bullshit. Thus, why Sam ends up with the duty, and why Gilly is the first to read that passage in probably forever.

I just rewatched the scene and it wasn't anything a maester wrote, it was the diary of the high septon (the one killed in the riot I believe).

So the only plausible scenario I can imagine right now is that Rhaegar and Lyanna married in secret so Jon wouldn't be a bastard. And Rhaegar told the high septon to keep it secret until he returned.

But Rhaegar didn't return and Lyanna died during childbirth so he was left holding a secret marriage between a dead prince, and he just kept it to himself.

And I guess his diary wound up at the Citadel after he was killed in season 2. So it hasn't actually been at the Citadel for that long.

At least that's what I make of it without knowing any other details.

 

[Mortemis]

Joanna Lannister dying while giving birth to Tyrion really fucked everything up. About the only person who wouldn't be better off is Sam Tarly.


As a reminder. Joanna Lannister had negotiated that Jamie Lannister would marry Elia Martell and Cersi would marry Oberyn aka The Red Viper.

If Jamie had Married Elia, then Rhaegar would have been single and free to marry Lyanna. If Rhaegar had legally married Lyanna in less controversial circumstances, Robert's rebellion wouldn't have happened. Brandon Stark would have married Kat Tully, and virtually everyone would have lived relitively happy lives.

We may even have seen Stannis Baratheon as a member of the Kingsguard.

Of course it all comes back to Tyrion. That damn dwarf.

It's kind of silly how all these "great houses" have one family in them most of whom have like 2 kids.

I mean its like that for the Starks but there's at least some sort of explanation for it in the source material.

I had that thought before too, like with how much history these houses have you'd think they'd be huge with a bunch of branch houses.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I just rewatched the scene and it wasn't anything a maester wrote, it was the diary of the high septon (the one killed in the riot I believe).

So the only plausible scenario I can imagine right now is that Rhaegar and Lyanna married in secret so Jon wouldn't be a bastard. And Rhaegar told the high septon to keep it secret until he returned.

But Rhaegar didn't return and Lyanna died during childbirth so he was left holding a secret marriage between a dead prince, and he just kept it to himself.

And I guess his diary wound up at the Citadel after he was killed in season 2. So it hasn't actually been at the Citadel for that long.

At least that's what I make of it without knowing any other details.

Oh, was it a septon? Guess I got confused.

In that case yeah, I can see why a septons diary is no interest to Maesters. Hell a letter from Bran Stark is of little interest to them.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

It's kind of silly how all these "great houses" have one family in them most of whom have like 2 kids.

I mean its like that for the Starks but there's at least some sort of explanation for it in the source material.

While the books handles it better, you still have in them noble families that have apparently survived unbroken for several thousand years.

In the real world the best anyone did was the Hapsburgs and they only lasted like 600 years or so before infighting (and inbreeding) did them in.

 

[Psychoward]

So uh, why the fuck didn't Dany scout for Jaime lannister after he tried to kill her

How the fuck don't the maesters at least know what warging is


And LF definitely forged that note to nobody's surprise, wonder if Arya is actually gonna be dumb enough to hurt Sansa, according to her dumbass beheading plea she probably will be

There were a few other things that bugged me but those are the ones I remembered off the top of my head

 

[dabig2]

Oh, was it a septon? Guess I got confused.

In that case yeah, I can see why a septons diary is no interest to Maesters. Hell a letter from Bran Stark is of little interest to them.

No way, that actually makes it worse! Remember that the high septon is basically the Pope of Westeros. He also lived through some of the craziest shit Westeros has seen since the Dance of the Dragons debacle more than a century prior. This would be like historians today flat out ignoring Pope John Paul II's private memorials or Mother Theresa's. Access to the private thoughts and writings of these people who have had various and long interactions with some of the most powerful figures of the world isn't exactly common. A diary like that would be a priority, surely in the years that have passed since his death and them receiving it that this would have been found out, even accounting for all the boring details peppered throughout.

 

[Psychoward]

Also yes the current WW/Cersei plot is so dumb I have to imagine it's gotta be a d and d original.

At least we'll get good acting from Waldeu when he betrays Cersei again (wow that foreshadowing was so subtle)

 

[hydrophilic attack]

While the books handles it better, you still have in them noble families that have apparently survived unbroken for several thousand years.

In the real world the best anyone did was the Hapsburgs and they only lasted like 600 years or so before infighting (and inbreeding) did them in.

Isn't book canon that most history going back thousands of years is made up?

Similar to the oldest Chinese dynasties in the real world

 

[Violet_0]

lol, I like how everyone got a main quest update in their journal, and now they formed a D&D party

Jaime & Bronn bromance is still the best part of the show, everyone who wanted them dead last episode is out of their mind

that row boat reference

Littlefinger playing 4th dimensional chess with stupid Arya, I approve. What was the message?

I enjoyed this episode way more than last week's

 

[venom473]

And LF definitely forged that note to nobody's surprise, wonder if Arya is actually gonna be dumb enough to hurt Sansa, according to her dumbass beheading plea she probably will be

Littlefinger didn't forge that note, Sansa was forced by the Lannisters to write it all the way back in season 1.