So that's where Jon gets it from. Why fight off the undead near the dragon as it evacuates people when you can walk onto the ice and fight them there? Makes total sense.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
So that's where Jon gets it from. Why fight off the undead near the dragon as it evacuates people when you can walk onto the ice and fight them there? Makes total sense.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
because the idea that sansa and arya are pretending to be idiots while littlefinger sniggers under the floorboards going "hehe, i totally got these bitches" is absurd.
Benjen is just expressing D&D's thoughts, meaning there is no time in the episode for me to exist and I have to wrap up this loose end asap, could have gotten quite meta there. They are the lords or light and no one knows what they want.
bitbydeath
Member
Nah, Sansa has always been awful, I wouldn't expect her to change overnight.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
that story was probably a lie. if she had to go get the arrow after every shot and she fired anywhere between 20 or 50 times, then walking back and forth she should have seen ned watching her, unless by some chance ned just happened to appear when she fired her one good shot. ned certainly isn't the type to duck and hide every time arya is walking back towards him.
yes, i am this jaded.
m_shortpants
Member
I was especially baffled to see the Night King walk away after Jon drowns. Like wtf? You're telling me a super powerful warg or whatever he is can't tell that Jon is still alive? This is a dude who detected Bran flying a raven from a long distance away?
He seems to know Jon is important, why doesn't he stay? Did he have to leave to get the ice chains from the ice forge up north?
Jon fake drowning was a really stupid way for him to be left there and for Benjen to return to die. I mean what the hell? Benjen is the Stark that Jon identifies most with, the person he looked for, and all he gets is a death instead of, I don't know, picking up Jon and riding away together. But D&D pat themselves on the back in the behind the scenes about how this is "closure" and Benjen "finding his purpose"
It's rough.
When you put it like that I 100% believe that's what they were doing.
m_shortpants
Member
People also thought that Arya was the waif earlier because of bad writing
Then it turned out to be bad writing
D&D only care about the hype moments. I'm pretty sure they've crafted this entire season based on how much of a reaction per episode they can get from the bar people reaction vids. So we know LF will be getting his comeuppance next episode as his character has been useless to the story entire season and overstayed his welcome and no one honestly cares about the plot in WF no matter how much they lie about it. This entire season is setup for him to die and for people to cheer it.
So this entire garbage is building up to LF getting his and D&D will see the hype reactions to this and feel justified for wasting our times with this nonsense, when that time could have been better spent elsewhere. Reminds me of the Faith subplot in S6 being streeeeeetched out because they knew the finale was going to be the destruction of Sept Balor, but they needed to find a way to include a season's worth of plot to keep the story going until they could get to the end.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
people in here acting like GRRM's legacy is ruined when he's the man responsible for 1) all of dorne and 2) fake targaryen 3) tyrion's pointless odyssey 4) the pointlessness of lady stoneheart 4) the pointlessness of euron, the greyjoys in general.
I'm not gonna defend D&D's ridicustupid plot holes to get everyone north of the wall so they can kill off a dragon, but GRRM's legacy with his opus is of his own making. kinda.
I'm not gonna defend D&D's ridicustupid plot holes to get everyone north of the wall so they can kill off a dragon, but GRRM's legacy with his opus is of his own making. kinda.
Cross posting from the other thread.
This is undoubtedly the most stupid episode ever in the entirety of the show. I couldn't believe what I was witnessing. Just non-stop stupidity.
I'll keep watching but this is not the show I liked, it's hollywoodesque fanfic written by a 19 years old deviantart writer wannabe.
The chains hahahah oh god. And that's by far the least offensive thing from this joke of an episode.
I went from 'could they really all die except Rob's son? Do they have the balls to be Game of Thrones?'
To 'I'm done caring about this SyFy show' in 20 minutes.
Pathetic episode. Another one like this and it'll be 6 years of building down the toilet for me. The writers should go write generic fantasy blockbusters.
This is undoubtedly the most stupid episode ever in the entirety of the show. I couldn't believe what I was witnessing. Just non-stop stupidity.
I'll keep watching but this is not the show I liked, it's hollywoodesque fanfic written by a 19 years old deviantart writer wannabe.
The chains hahahah oh god. And that's by far the least offensive thing from this joke of an episode.
I went from 'could they really all die except Rob's son? Do they have the balls to be Game of Thrones?'
To 'I'm done caring about this SyFy show' in 20 minutes.
Pathetic episode. Another one like this and it'll be 6 years of building down the toilet for me. The writers should go write generic fantasy blockbusters.
I'm not being serious and have already made the joke in this thread that everything Arya said in that convo was her playing the Game of Faces.
Human Trashcan
Banned
Is there any chance the season finale redeems the winterfell storyline and Arya being a total idiot? I just don't see where it's going at all in a way that would justify the way these characters, but Arya especially, have been acting. I get they're being mysterious on purpose, but it just feels random. Arya's just been so terrible this season.
Change what? I don't get the hate for Sansa, what was exactly so awful about her besides the couple of spoiled attitudes she had as a 13 year old and that she payed for greatly?
Human Trashcan
Banned
Nah you nailed it. She's a girl.
The stupidity is kinda getting to me. From Deus Ex Dragons, to Deus Ex Benjen, to having the dragons there and not burning every damn zombie including the Night King, to zombie dragon, to Arya & Sansa, to Benjen pointlessly dying, to only redshirts dying, to sprinter-marathon-snow impervious Gendry, to... Gah!
The only high point of this ep was the conversation between Sandor and Tormund.
The only high point of this ep was the conversation between Sandor and Tormund.
Have a weird sense of faith that the finale is gonna be solid
Hopefully I'm not eating crow this time next week
Don't forget Jon Plotarmor Marysue Snow walking out unscathed of an army of thousands of undead people that were surrounding him after being thrown in a frozen pool of water with heavy attire.
I guess that's not as shockingly stupid because we were kinda used to the show being Jon Snow's Adventures by now.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
is there any evidence that dragon fire would kill the night king? when he walked through the flames they went out. maybe the dude is colder than dragon fire is hot?
ASoIaF has consequences; GoT doesn't.
It's probably worth trying to see what he is and isn't vulnerable to.
In fairness if they kept going at that rate then thered be no one left.
Without debating the quality of Feast/Dance, endings are important. He's letting these awful show writers create the only ending his life's work is likely to get.
Perhaps if George leaves the saga unfinished someday someone else (Daniel Abraham?) will finish the books and give us an ending, but it's still not going to be George's ending.
Right after the mofo one shooted a third of your main weapons...
Does it have "consequences" or does a whole lot of bad stuff just happen to everyone?
I think a lot of bad stuff just happens to everyone.
Remember in the first season when one zombie was practically unstoppable and fire was the only solution? Yeah me neither
A fun episode but kinda dumb. The Night King is clearly an idiot since he first aims at the smaller moving dragon instead of the big stationary one full of heroes. I can write smarter scenes than this
A fun episode but kinda dumb. The Night King is clearly an idiot since he first aims at the smaller moving dragon instead of the big stationary one full of heroes. I can write smarter scenes than this
Or, even better, right before.
Ganzlinger
Member
Littlefinger deserved better. He is one of the most brilliant characters in the books. Completely wasted in the series. Why he would risk his neck by playing games with kids. Arya shouldn't threat his position at all.
I'm afraid we are going to have another fanservice moment next chapter.
I mean everyone in this episode was using fire, obsidian or valyrian steel for that reason... except for Gendry's hammer which the Hound dropped after seeing a wight get back up after he had knocked most of its face off.
Way I see it is Arya is rightfully pissed at Sansa, but as she says again, family first. Her scene in her room was perfect. They're doing her arc here very well, either way they end it.
Sansa... They're betraying her character and for no reason. I guess it'll be rich girl still doesn't get the game and gets played, but after the last 8 episodes of her saying to never trust Littlefinger, she lets him pull on the idea that Arya is dangerous and get baited into sending Brianne away. The Sansa they built would have understood Aryas message, but it's clear from the scene it was just pure terror and fear that came through.
It just doesn't make any sense with how they've been building up Sansa over her arcs.
Obsidian and Valyrian steel isn't supposed to do shit to wights, fire kills them. It's White Walkers those two things kill.
But this season they have retconned it to have them kill wights too.
But how? The dragons follow simple patterns, Drogon goes wherever Daenerys goes, and she had as top priority rescue the Snow's seven, and the others just, as always did circle around Drogon, and go dracarys at the first thing they have in front.
Well the show writers are giving us the ending he's writing. But I think now we're seeing why it's taking so long.
To do it poetically, is hard. The plot points are easy, how you get there satisfactory is a hard path to tackle.
The show runners are not going to be up for it, and GRRM is struggling himself to tell it in a way that doesn't betray the brilliance of the prior books.
Shit is hard to get right.
That's pretty much the issue, since the series was know as "stupid shit gets you killed".
Lately stupid shit has no consequences, because they're flying blind and using normal tropes since they don't have GRRMs manuscript to show them a different spin to go A-B.
ClosingADoor
Member
While I liked the battle itself, the things surrounding it could have been handled better. Maybe get Benjen to return earlier, when they were in trouble with the bear and help them out in the fight later on. Then have him die there like Tormund almost did. Now you had two characters escaping with looked like a sure death in one episode.
Once it became clear that Bran is basically omniscient and unstuck in time Littlefinger, the man who lies to everyone 24/7, should have left Winterfell. Hell, he never should have been there. All those loyal northern lords and none of them are bothered that Littlefinger betrayed the Starks and got Ned killed? Lord Royce never seemed to be a fan of his either.
So a dragon attacking the Night King seems implausible to you? That's the one step that would make it impossible for you to believe what's going on?
If you remove the fact she is a girl, 13 years old etc. It isn't too hard to see why she got hate. One thing showrunners have found is, anyone in opposition to the main 'heroes' of the story get negative reactions. Sansa was in direct opposition to Arya, House Stark. We don't sympathize she didn't know what Joffrey was but we know she viewed her family with disdain, that she lied and got Lady killed etc.
The actor for Chuck in Better Call Saul. He said it is never black and white but Grey. Anyone in his shoes would understand how he feels against Jimmy aka Saul. But because he is in opposition to Jimmy/Saul. His motives, feelings, course of action didn't matter. Same goes for Skylar White against Walt, Carmela Soprano against Tony etc.
It is the problem with some shows where the viewer knows something the characters don't. We know the white walkers are dangerous and Jon is right. Cersei doesn't matter. But to Sansa who had her life destroyed, Cersei matters, not some threat we don't know.
This is precisely why Arya became a fan favorite. Same with Tyrion. Same with Bronn. But a lot of people I saw were wishing Drogon burned Bronn alive before he could fire the spear even though they liked him elsewhere. We hated Theon when he turned on the Starks but now like and empathize with him.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
by the time dany knew where and who the night king was it was already too late to prevent him from getting at least one throw in.
I mean, the episode had no logic, and it was badly written, but the dragons not attacking the night king was consistent with how they act, so I don't see a problem with the one logical thing that happened during the event
Fbh
Member
Just saw the episode.
Is there a word for a reverse mary sue? Because at this point that's basically what John Snow is. His plans are horrible and he fails at pretty much everything he wants to accomplish.
He was killed by his men as Lord commander and was revived by the red lady.
He lost the battle of the bastards and was saved at the last moment by Sansa/Little Finger
He has been terrible as king of the north.
He went on a suicide mission beyond the wall and failed. He was saved by Daenerys but a dragon died because of him and then he screwed up that rescue and his uncle died for him.
I like non perfect hero characters but holy shit this dude seriously can't accomplish anything on his own.
Is there a word for a reverse mary sue? Because at this point that's basically what John Snow is. His plans are horrible and he fails at pretty much everything he wants to accomplish.
He was killed by his men as Lord commander and was revived by the red lady.
He lost the battle of the bastards and was saved at the last moment by Sansa/Little Finger
He has been terrible as king of the north.
He went on a suicide mission beyond the wall and failed. He was saved by Daenerys but a dragon died because of him and then he screwed up that rescue and his uncle died for him.
I like non perfect hero characters but holy shit this dude seriously can't accomplish anything on his own.
we all knew Jon would come back
all the Stark kids (minus Rickon), Dany, Tyrion, Cersei and Jaime are invulnerable until the last book
how well received was the episode in the show-only thread?
Gunslinger
Member
Why did Jon stray so far from the group? He kept going away from the dragon. he should have stayed close to the dragon like any normal person would until everyone is on it so he can hop on last and get out of there.
cubicle47b
Member
It has consequences and a whole lot of bad stuff happens to everyone.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I was put off by how convenient things sorta fell in place, much like others have posted about.
I have to wonder what will happen to the other two dragons. I bet we will see a dragon vs dragon battle at some point in time.
My biggest question is if that dragon could have been revived before it was turned undead? They had to bring it back up to the surface, but is there anyway to save him? Probably not, there's only 1 person left who can bring back the dead. Melisandre perhaps?
I have to wonder what will happen to the other two dragons. I bet we will see a dragon vs dragon battle at some point in time.
My biggest question is if that dragon could have been revived before it was turned undead? They had to bring it back up to the surface, but is there anyway to save him? Probably not, there's only 1 person left who can bring back the dead. Melisandre perhaps?