I don't think there's going to be any relation between show and book Euron whatsoever. Nothing about this season so far feels even slightly in the realm of what GRRM would write, besides the Sandor and Sam stuff.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
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I don't think there's going to be any relation between show and book Euron whatsoever. Nothing about this season so far feels even slightly in the realm of what GRRM would write, besides the Sandor and Sam stuff.
cubicle47b
Member
Yeah, the show and books are two completely different entities. I don't know why one would ruin the other.
Fenderputty
Banned
Jamie made the comment that he learned from his early losses against Rob. It was essentially the same play.
I liked how they showed us how the battle played out from Tryion's perspective before reality was shown. My only question is why would they continue on to Casterly Rock if
A. the first part of their plan was foiled and
B. The Lannisters knew they were still coming.
Tyrion seemed smarter than that.
Yes but will you be able to read Winds of Winter without picturing Euron's stupid face saying "a finger in the bum" in any of his chapters?
Because I know I can't
Well now I won't.
Psychoward
Banned
Lol
Cellphone reception sucks once you start sailing south of Dorne so they couldn't call them back.
Ocarina_117
Banned
ftfy
Maintenance
Member
Why do people keep with the "teleporting" trope?
I think by now it has been pretty well established that several days or even weeks may go from episode to episode or even scene to scene. Arya's training montage in the House of Black & White and Tyron's talking about how Casterly Rock was to be taken during this episode should be proof enough of this.
Two things happening during one single episode do not necessarily mean they are happening on a short time span from one another. This has been a recurrent thing since the very beginning of the show (S01E01: Jaime and Cersei are in King's Landing in their very first scene, 20 min later they arrive at Winterfell), but I don't remember people complaining about teleportation back then.
I think by now it has been pretty well established that several days or even weeks may go from episode to episode or even scene to scene. Arya's training montage in the House of Black & White and Tyron's talking about how Casterly Rock was to be taken during this episode should be proof enough of this.
Two things happening during one single episode do not necessarily mean they are happening on a short time span from one another. This has been a recurrent thing since the very beginning of the show (S01E01: Jaime and Cersei are in King's Landing in their very first scene, 20 min later they arrive at Winterfell), but I don't remember people complaining about teleportation back then.
A GoT total war game would be so legit. Way more interesting than Warhammer.
The show has fast become rather nonsense at this point so I don't really feel any correlation between the books and show now. Euron is a total cartoon, but in the midst of the dour conversations and more dour costumes, and giant logistics leaps going on, his scenery chewing appearances are a highlight for their silliness.
"What a twat!"
He's like Lord Flashheart came to Westeros or something.
"What a twat!"
He's like Lord Flashheart came to Westeros or something.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Easy. I consider show Euron to be an adaptation of Victarion. So instead of picturing Show!Euron when reading about Book!Euron, I will picture Show!Euron when reading about book Victarion. And it makes sense to me that Victarion would use that line
Because they at least did something to indicate the passage of time, like Cersei complaining about "riding for a month"
Psychoward
Banned
...what are you doing? Of course they won, nobody is debating that. We're saying how fucking stupid it is in almost all aspects. You're right, it isn't a documentary so someone actually had to write it so it can be open to criticism for being unrealistic. Because it didn't happen in real life. This is amazing.
Also yes the people of KL not giving a shit that the Sept and Margaery blew up is hilarious since they made it a point to show how much the people loved both.
Victarion is actually a badass though. That part with Moqorro is one of my favorites in adwd.
Maintenance
Member
Which part of riding in on the mast of his ship to personally cut down the sandsnakes, and then mocking Jaime Lannister to his face doesn't say "badass".
Honestly, bookEuron does nothing for me, beyond the threat of the dragon horn. Yet more convolution to an already overly convoluted set of storylines that definitely won't all be satisfyingly resolved, whether GRRM lives to write A Dream for Spring or not.
So I'm enjoying this hammy villany for it is.
Ocarina_117
Banned
What do you guys think will happen with the white walkers in the books? Given the way they're presented as elegant, shimmering beings I believe there is a lot more to them than generic doom bringing force. Their origin, I expect, will also greatly differ.
I also doubt there will be a war between humans and the others and that the story of Azor Azhai was greatly misconstrued through time.
I also doubt there will be a war between humans and the others and that the story of Azor Azhai was greatly misconstrued through time.
Human Trashcan
Banned
Yeah I agree, if the rest of the show was on the level of Lady Olenna I might take more issue with the silly shit, but everyone on this show is so dour, and some of the main players are so boring and bland (thanks to both writing and acting), that I'll gladly take Cersei and Euron's ham over Dany and Jon being total charisma vacuums.
I think it's about as straightforward as it gets, and I'm pretty confident in that. I think their origins is something they got from GRRM, I think they are an existential threat to all life, and I think Jon, Dany and Tyrion are the three heads of the dragon who will stop them, the unison of Ice and Fire. The prophecy has only been misconstrued in that it has warped over time and different culture (The Prince Who Was Promised and Azor Ahai are basically the same story from different cultures) and that it doesn't necessarily represent a literal single prince or reincarnation of Azor Ahai.
I think a lot of people, in their effort to predict the narrative and out-think the story, work themselves into some funny theories, because GRRM has subverted so many fantasy tropes. But he's done that with the primary purpose of taking the bullshit romanticization of medieval culture out of fantasy. IE. war is not glorious but horrifying, the smallfolk get fucked over constantly, women have no agency and are sold off and raped in their marital beds because they have no choice, and everyone fights over petty bullshit while the real threat goes unanswered, which some interpret as a metaphor for climate change, but you can take that or leave it. And I think that's where it stops, GRRM isn't a shock jock who just wants to BLOW YA MIND with SICK TWISTS just 'cuz.
The only real question I have is where he leaves Westeros' status quo AFTER the threat of the white walkers has been vanquished. Does the Iron Throne continue to rule the seven kingdoms? If so, who sits it? Will it split back up into seven autonomous kingdoms? Will they suddenly invent democracy? I have no idea.
bitbydeath
Member
So now that Jamie knows it wasn't Tyrion who killed Joffrey hopefully that means he will finally switch sides.
I'm hoping we see some repercussions from that statement.
I'm hoping we see some repercussions from that statement.
It's not going to end up as a Tolkien-esque final battle that the show is clearly headed towards. Martin has purposefully subverted every comparison to LotR thus far and I see no reason why he'd stop at the finish line. It'll be something probably none of us see coming.
Maintenance
Member
D&D knew the basics of how this story was going from GRRM long before they got their themselves. Understand that if this is the direction they're going, it's probably not completely alien from the way George is going.
I do think it will be more complex than fighting off an army of the dead, but I think the show will also color the Walkers as more tragic and less monolithic than they have appeared so far. The fact that they've touched on their creation as a means to repel the destruction of man signals this at least somewhat.
I think my problem with it is the pacing between seasons is accelerating at a seemingly exponential rate. Things are happening one after the other and there's no time to breath.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I wonder if the Night King will make an alliance with Jon to defeat Cersei and Dany because theyll burn the world trying to overtake each other.
I really can forgive how characters are written, what they say and whatnot. And here comes the but:
Fuck the illogical bullshit. It's not even only book lore that the isles are bare, rocky and all that. They said this on the show. Now, even if they had all the wood - how long would it take to build all those ships?
Just 2 scenes. Roughly.
War has become a Civ game where you just move one unit between each scene. From wall to citadel? Half an episode. Compare that to the Siege of Riverrun. Wasn't perfect either, but atleast not that short.
I doubt that. Think it'll end up pretty cliche at this point. They'll bond/kiss and the cliffhanger(edit: winds/s8) is going to be Lyanna's words. I'd rather see them stand on different sides after that.
Fuck the illogical bullshit. It's not even only book lore that the isles are bare, rocky and all that. They said this on the show. Now, even if they had all the wood - how long would it take to build all those ships?
Just 2 scenes. Roughly.
War has become a Civ game where you just move one unit between each scene. From wall to citadel? Half an episode. Compare that to the Siege of Riverrun. Wasn't perfect either, but atleast not that short.
I doubt that. Think it'll end up pretty cliche at this point. They'll bond/kiss and the cliffhanger(edit: winds/s8) is going to be Lyanna's words. I'd rather see them stand on different sides after that.
pluginbaby121
Member
My memory of the books are a little hazy but I never got the impression Jaime was mad about Joffrey but moreso the death of Tywin. Now that he knows who really did it I see him giving up on the hate of Tywin's death because he pushed so hard to have Tyrion killed.
PunishedOkabe
Member
Her acting
chicken_pasta
Banned
Brutal.
Maintenance
Member
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
Totally 100% agree. From all those early interviews when the show was just hitting in season 1 and 2, it always seemed like they were big fans of the source material and (rightfully) wanted to get big moments like Ned's execution or the Red Wedding on screen and those big moments were big driving factors for them in doing the show. And through the first 4 seasons really, the show did a pretty good job of getting those big moments pretty right- things like the Battle at the Wall, the Mountain versus the Viper, Blackwater and so on.
But once the show got beyond the books, you end up with season 5 where it felt like they were almost just spinning their wheels hoping GRRM would get the next book out so they'd have that detailed blueprint again. But by the time you get to Season 6, it very much felt like they realized there isn't any book on the horizon so they're basically just sprinting to the finish line now.
But that was just one time, out of many. It's true that the show did spend more time showing people traveling in early seasons, but I guess there's only so many times you can do that without it becoming detrimental to the series' production (how many scenes of people just traveling can you fit on episodes that are already trying to set the end of the story?).
I do wish they acknowledged the pass of time better, but I think that's probably problematic too, as some character's storylines move faster than others and they do not all happen simultaneously. There has to be a point when the pass of time has to be assumed by the viewer. We know that Euron and Jaime did not teleport to Casterly Rock and the Reach (respectively) from King's Landing, and if it only took them half an episode it is because time passed in between. Just like Robb travelled from Winterfell all the way to the Riverlands in less than one episode too in S01.
I think the problem is that many still don't realise that the storylines are not happening at the same time, on a day-to-day equivalence. Jon may have been a day or two in Dragonstone during this episode, but perhaps a week or two may have happened in Euron's and Jaime's storylines.
I'm guessing it's because of the limited number of episodes and a desire to start wraping up the loose ends of the story. They have a limited time and they cannot spend it on scenes of people traveling on horse, ships, etc.
People can have interesting things happen to them while traveling. It's not like we want scenes with Jon and Davos sitting silently in a boat. Or you could just have Jon sit out an episode so it doesn't feel as rushed when he ends up at Dragonstone. There are easy ways around this problem, the showrunners just don't care.
How? It'd essentially be Medieval: Total War but with less diverse unit rosters.
Human Trashcan
Banned
Honestly I don't mind the logistical stuff so much when it doesn't call too much attention to itself. And I do think it's actually a difficult problem for the writers to solve with so many characters and stories. The leaps of logic, like Jaime just marching up to Highgarden and just taking it, are a bigger problem. And even THAT I'd be kind of indifferent about if the character work was solid. But the show is just failing on all those fronts right now, imo. I feel like I'm just watching a procession of scenes in which plot happens because the script says it does.
The evidence presented in A Dance With Dragons says otherwise. It is all turtle counting or playing cyvasse.
What'd you think of this season's scene with the Hound?
Spooky Scary Skeleton
Member
To this day, I have no idea why Tyrion thought it was a good strategy to take Casterly Rock. It's just a stronghold. Taking it wouldn't have done anything, considering it is far to the west and serves no strategic value. The better choice would've been taking over Lannisport and get the Unsullied fed with all the food and supply themselves for future battles.
That was one of comments last night when watching the battle scenes "Are you they didn't just film this using Total War?"
Cause it really had a "oh hell we're losing this mission, let's just try this siege" feeling to the battles, and not anything like the Battle of the Bastards or Kings Landing epic battle feel.
Gabriel_Logan
Member
Or you know....just take King's Landing and be done with the war... How many of Dany's solders died because they didn't want to siege the city for some reason.
Spooky Scary Skeleton
Member
That's just Dany's conscience preventing her from doing that. But Tyrion is her strategist. That was a boneheaded strategic decision. Possibly one of the worst in GoT.
I mostly liked it. I thought some of the Hound's delivery, reaction to scenes in the flames was a bit clunky. But who am I to judge, I haven't seen the future in a magic fire.
A nice touch with the gravedigger scene and showed a distinct change with the Hound's view on life and his guilt for the way he has lived.
It isn't a travelling scene though, if that is what you are getting at, it has importance because of where they are and the path revisited. Now you could argue that the first scene with the farmer and daughter is a travelling scene since they seem like characters of little import.
Travelling scenes without hardship or meeting an interesting character should be few and far between imo.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Holy hell the guy who plays Hot Pie is old enough to grow a beard like that.
http://www.highsnobiety.com/2017/07/26/game-of-thrones-hot-pie-bakery-direwolf-bread/
http://www.highsnobiety.com/2017/07/26/game-of-thrones-hot-pie-bakery-direwolf-bread/
The Hound and his companions are traveling through the snow and seek shelter in that abonded house. How is it not a traveling scene? We know they are traveling north because we traveled north with them.
I can't remember - in the show, has Petyr Baelish stockpiled food in The Vale? I seem to remember Baelish storing away five years worth of food someplace.
This show has been going on a long-ass time. Maise Williams looked like a tiny child, now she's a grown-ass woman. Jaime Lannister (forgot his name) went from looking like a young, dashing prince charming to a grizzled middle-aged man. Etc. I think they probably expected this thing to wrap up years ago.
This show has been going on a long-ass time. Maise Williams looked like a tiny child, now she's a grown-ass woman. Jaime Lannister (forgot his name) went from looking like a young, dashing prince charming to a grizzled middle-aged man. Etc. I think they probably expected this thing to wrap up years ago.