bodeiseifer
Member
I have a region modded ps2 connected with component but when ever I load a ps1 game into it I only get a black screen but can hear the sound, is this normal, it works fine if I forgo the xrgb and connect direct to my TV?
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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Nope, I'm seeing I should've gone with Micomsoft/startech from the start.
Have you updated the XRGB firmware?
NormalFish
Banned
VGA is the obvious missing input. the single 8 din connection ain't great, either. Audio options are just one thing on my wishlist.
I posted earlier that I missed out on a very cheap XRGB-3 sale. Yesterday I got an unexpected email from the seller, and I may be in business 
So I'm planning the bits and bobs I'll need to get going. The consoles at this stage:
- RGB modded N64
- SNES
- C64
Potential complication: All gear is PAL. I have Euro SCART cables for the Nintendo gear, and I've already (perhaps prematurely) ordered a SCART to JP21 adapter. From what I've read, this input on the XRGB-3 will be ok with the PAL signals - but I'll run into trouble with the C64, as the S-Video inputs only like NTSC.
I've been looking at PAL to NTSC conversion. I've found this cheap looking "Com World" converter on Amazon, and I've also spotted a cheap Shinybow SB-3690. Am I barking up the right tree here?
So I'm planning the bits and bobs I'll need to get going. The consoles at this stage:- RGB modded N64
- SNES
- C64
Potential complication: All gear is PAL. I have Euro SCART cables for the Nintendo gear, and I've already (perhaps prematurely) ordered a SCART to JP21 adapter. From what I've read, this input on the XRGB-3 will be ok with the PAL signals - but I'll run into trouble with the C64, as the S-Video inputs only like NTSC.
I've been looking at PAL to NTSC conversion. I've found this cheap looking "Com World" converter on Amazon, and I've also spotted a cheap Shinybow SB-3690. Am I barking up the right tree here?
D.Lo
Member
It's you're using RGB you don't need any PAL conversion, conversion just changes how the colour is encoded via composite and RF. And you'd be crazy to think of changing the framerate post-output from a console, the pulldown would be horrendous.I posted earlier that I missed out on a very cheap XRGB-3 sale. Yesterday I got an unexpected email from the seller, and I may be in business
- RGB modded N64
- SNES
- C64
Potential complication: All gear is PAL. I have Euro SCART cables for the Nintendo gear, and I've already (perhaps prematurely) ordered a SCART to JP21 adapter. From what I've read, this input on the XRGB-3 will be ok with the PAL signals - but I'll run into trouble with the C64, as the S-Video inputs only like NTSC.
I've been looking at PAL to NTSC conversion. I've found this cheap looking "Com World" converter on Amazon, and I've also spotted a cheap Shinybow SB-3690. Am I barking up the right tree here?
The main issue you'll have is you're stuck with crappy squashed slow 50Hz games in a lot of cases. There's the odd exception where the PAL version is superior, but 99% of PAL versions are worse.
IMO if you're spending big bucks on video gear, you might as well get the best versions of the consoles and games as well. And in almost every case that means NTSC.
It's only the C64's S-Video signal that I need to sort out. If NTSC conversion is a bad idea, I'll have to look at other avenues like conversion to YUV/RGB. I know I won't get true YUV/RGB out of it, but I just need a path into the XRGB. Hopefully reasonably lag free.
As far as PAL consoles being generally inferior, no argument, but I grew up with it and I'll deal with it. It would be crazy expensive to build an NTSC collection in Australia. I've stumbled across an XRGB-3 for $200 (usually $500+ here) so I'm jumping on it, and just looking to get the best out of the gear I've got.
As far as PAL consoles being generally inferior, no argument, but I grew up with it and I'll deal with it. It would be crazy expensive to build an NTSC collection in Australia. I've stumbled across an XRGB-3 for $200 (usually $500+ here) so I'm jumping on it, and just looking to get the best out of the gear I've got.
You got the worst consoles to go 50Hz -> 60Hz.
The N64 cannot be modded for 60Hz, and it wouldn't matter since the games themselves are framerate-locked. You need both an American console and American games for 60Hz goodness.
The SNES is barely better. The console itself can be modded for 60Hz, but many games are "optimised", as in the music and/or the gameplay will play too fast at 60Hz. A "cinematic experience" or a Benny Hill effect, pick your poison. And even though you can mod your PAL console, you won't be able to play American games without an adapter, as the cartridges have different shapes. You should be able to play some of your games with an American or Japanese console modded for region-free though.
The C64 video chip outputs Luma and Chroma, presumably already encoded as PAL. Maybe you can mod it and replace the chip, an easier option would be to get an NTSC console. I don't know how would the games behave though.
The N64 cannot be modded for 60Hz, and it wouldn't matter since the games themselves are framerate-locked. You need both an American console and American games for 60Hz goodness.
The SNES is barely better. The console itself can be modded for 60Hz, but many games are "optimised", as in the music and/or the gameplay will play too fast at 60Hz. A "cinematic experience" or a Benny Hill effect, pick your poison. And even though you can mod your PAL console, you won't be able to play American games without an adapter, as the cartridges have different shapes. You should be able to play some of your games with an American or Japanese console modded for region-free though.
The C64 video chip outputs Luma and Chroma, presumably already encoded as PAL. Maybe you can mod it and replace the chip, an easier option would be to get an NTSC console. I don't know how would the games behave though.
SEGA does...
D.Lo, you have experience with doujindance, the RGB PC Engine seller on eBay?
Is it a good idea to get the version with the new lens? I know new lenses are available for sale separately but uncertain on how easy they are to install.
I was watching some best of PC-E videos. What a crazy library. So many fun looking shooters.
Is it a good idea to get the version with the new lens? I know new lenses are available for sale separately but uncertain on how easy they are to install.
I was watching some best of PC-E videos. What a crazy library. So many fun looking shooters.
I would go with the one with the new lens because it is also region modded. That way you could play the Turbografx versions if they are text heavy and the PC Engine versions for games without a lot of text.
Flizzzipper
Member
Is Solarisjapan the best place to buy framemeister as US customer?
Doujindance. He sells RGB modded Japanese consoles, mainly PC Engine Duos.
Yes.
D.Lo
Member
Actually a PAL N64 can play US games perfectly in 60Hz with a converter, or on the everdrive.
That said, PAL N64s are hard to RGB mod!
Not true, the sound chip is clocked separately on the SNES so music is always the correct speed in every game in every region. There's a single game that's an exception I believe because it uses the CPU clock, I forgot which game.
The only PAL optimised SNES games are first party, almost no 3rd party games got any PAL conversion, so Capcom, Konami, Sqaure etc on a 60Hz modded console run perfectly.
Sega on the other hand were completely shit to PAL territories, with almost no PAL conversions at all, ever (a couple of Sonic games has their music fixed, whoopdedo) despite PAL being their most successful territory.
Of course it's actually a positive now since cutting a trace is all you need for a '60Hz mod' on some models of Master System and Mega Drive. But back then it was lazy as hell.
Still, agree with your main point, those are the two worst consoles for PAL at this point!
Might as well get a new lens I guess, but it's usually calibration that's the problem, not the lens itself.
Thanks! This guy also sells a N64 that is supposedly outputting RGB. Any experiences with this? I need to replace my N64 for better picture.
So if you buy a Pal-console with a 60hz switch, it is likely that it is only the speed and image that will be correct, and not the music when playing ntsc-games? Or would most modders fix the sound as well?
D.Lo
Member
No, the music is always correct speed in every region in every SNES game, even on an unmodded PAL console.
See these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxvwRDF8pjQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn7g21y7GvQ
Gameplay speed is different, music speed is identical. Unlike NES, Master System, Mega Drive etc where games have slower music because the entire console is clocked slower.
It's super obvious when you have a 50/60Hz switch, because you can switch while the console is on and the music continues uninterrupted.
See this video at 2:07
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEhMUhJcVBU
One more cool feature exclusive to the SNES is 'unoptimised' PAL SNES games also have less slowdown, as it's exactly the same computer running the exact same software slower, so the PPU has some headroom and doesn't hit limits as often. I play Super R-type and Gradius III at 50Hz for this reason.
He does quality work, but it also is possible that your current N64 could output RGB with a simple mod.
Oh I didn't know about the sound chip, that's interesting!
I don't think it's specific to the SNES. I know some demos on the Megadrive need to be played at 50Hz as the modder needed the extra time/power to do his thing. Deep Duck Trouble on the Master System also has lots of stuttering when played at 60Hz, while smooth at 50Hz.
D.Lo
Member
True, but it's more prevalent on SNES due to its architecture, which passes off special processing to to other chips more than most consoles (e.g. visual effects, sound), leaving the CPU just to the maths - so you get a 10% improvement on Master System, but a 30% improvement on SNES for the same speed throttle. Also, the SNES is the most CPU starved console, so it benefits the most from anything that lets off the demands (aka is has more slowdown that any other console, so more games to improve).
Yeah, this is what I just bought as well. Hope it works fine when it arrives here!
encephalon
Member
I'll take entrement's suggestion and shamelessly repost this here:
I'm using a framemeister mini to play Saturn and Dreamcast games. In the past I noticed a strange flickering issue in my black levels. I later used Resident Evil 2's "Monitor Tuning" screen and found that one particular shade of black flickered, but if I turned my brightness down 1 it went away.
Fast forward, I put in Resident Evil 2, but it looks strangely dark. I bring up the callibration screen again, and it's a solid block.
Unless I'm crazy, there should be a gradient to the right, ... right? It's the same on two Dreamcasts.
P.S. Is it just me or are Japanese Dreamcasts especially loud? I don't remember my NA Dreamcast having such loud gears for the disc drive.
I'm using a framemeister mini to play Saturn and Dreamcast games. In the past I noticed a strange flickering issue in my black levels. I later used Resident Evil 2's "Monitor Tuning" screen and found that one particular shade of black flickered, but if I turned my brightness down 1 it went away.
Fast forward, I put in Resident Evil 2, but it looks strangely dark. I bring up the callibration screen again, and it's a solid block.
Unless I'm crazy, there should be a gradient to the right, ... right? It's the same on two Dreamcasts.
P.S. Is it just me or are Japanese Dreamcasts especially loud? I don't remember my NA Dreamcast having such loud gears for the disc drive.
I've been meaning to get a Framemeister, since I bought my own place and no longer have a common room (used to live in a shared apartment with 2 other guys) to put my small CRT in. I reckon the best option is to order from Solaris, but I figure there's gonna be some extra things needed to hook it up scart-wise to my switchbox (Joytech AV control center 2, which is awesome), I'm guessing a Framemeister-euroscart adapter of some sort?
Flizzzipper
Member
Thanks...here I go...
Oh man... Super Mario Galaxy looks absolutely amazing on an SD display. Even in 480i, it looks better than 480p upscaled on a modern fixed-pixel set.
I really wish I had a widescreen 480p-native CRT to see the game the way it was truly meant to be seen.
In contrast... Xenoblade looks abysmal at 480i on a CRT. Some things are downright illegible even with a nice component connection. The forced widescreen aspect ratio makes everything too squished and that goes poorly with the inherent noise of an interlaced signal.
I really wish I had a widescreen 480p-native CRT to see the game the way it was truly meant to be seen.
In contrast... Xenoblade looks abysmal at 480i on a CRT. Some things are downright illegible even with a nice component connection. The forced widescreen aspect ratio makes everything too squished and that goes poorly with the inherent noise of an interlaced signal.
entremet
Member
Yep. I was pretty impressed when I messed around with it on my CRT.
Sub HD systems should be connected to CRTs if you have that option.
Friend of Sonic
Member
My Trio Ultra I payed an embarrassing amount of money for is on its way this week. I previously used their 2 in one for the CDX+32X back when I had a CDX and it was great.
Bakkus
Member
Got an NTSC Wii and was disappointed that it couldn't do RGB, but then I saw that it could do component, the problem is that my CRT does of course not support component. In spite of that would a component to RGB converter like http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61xT0UAEG8L._SL1000_.jpg work for giving my Wii better picture on a CRT?
D.Lo
Member
By 'region modded' I assume you mean mod chipped and I'm guessing it's a PAL PS2?
Mod chipped PAL PS2 plays NTSC PS1 games at a busted refresh rate, so many monitors and scalers cannot display them.
You need to get an NTSC PS1.
Just get a PAL Wii, it will cost peanuts.
Bakkus
Member
I used to have one, sold it. PAL Wiis are a hell to install Project M on, plus that all the VC games are 50Hz. That's why I got an NTSC one.
D.Lo
Member
Anyregionchanger is your friend then!
You can set the video output to PAL, this enables RGB.
Be very careful with Anyregionchanger however, it can brick your console if you save the wrong settings. It has warnings though.
D.Lo
Member
Component for Wii games, since it supports 480p and widescreen.
For virtual console, RGB and component would be basically identical, technically RGB has more range but as retro consoles are low-color machines the only difference may be a hue change depending how your screen displays each signal. So pick whatever is easier for your monitor.
Nostalgic Nightmare
Member
Nice,
I'm actually doing something kind of similar with the same game but via the gba player and gameboy interface homebrew app.
What are your scanline settings out of curiosity?
Makes sense, since the SPC-700 chips were clocked the same on PAL/NTSC systems, and music was played off the chip and not from the CPU.
Posted this in the Snes-thread, but might as well post it here as well.
I just got a used Pal Snes that is modded for 50/60hz with a switch, but I just realized - I have RGB-cables for both my old Pal Snes and NTSC Snes that are not compatible with each others. Does that mean I have to change cables on the machine when I change the switch betwee 50 and 60hz? Or can I assume that the Pal-cable will work onboth since the machine was originally a Pal-machine? Anybody has a good solution to this?
I just got a used Pal Snes that is modded for 50/60hz with a switch, but I just realized - I have RGB-cables for both my old Pal Snes and NTSC Snes that are not compatible with each others. Does that mean I have to change cables on the machine when I change the switch betwee 50 and 60hz? Or can I assume that the Pal-cable will work onboth since the machine was originally a Pal-machine? Anybody has a good solution to this?
Bakkus
Member
Sounds like that's not a risk worth taking. Again, do you know if that converter I linked to would work to get better picture on a CRT?
sixteen-bit
Member
Played some Mario Kart8 with friends today and they wanted to see the origin of coins so I showed them SMK on the PVM.
"Wow this looks so good"
"I love the colors"
"Where can I cop one of these?"
Mind you, this is the crowd that couldn't discern the difference in frame rate between fulscreen MK8 and 4p mode, so I was surprised by the comments and it made me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
"Wow this looks so good"
"I love the colors"
"Where can I cop one of these?"
Mind you, this is the crowd that couldn't discern the difference in frame rate between fulscreen MK8 and 4p mode, so I was surprised by the comments and it made me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
entremet
Member
How did you get your PVM, sixteen bit?
D.Lo
Member
Yes I do the same thing with the GBP, this is actually slightly better, though limits you to the titles on VC.
I set one scanline to near max and the other to aroun 65 I think?
It's really not that risky the app warns you! Just be careful.
Seriously it's free and would be a better result than a double transcode.
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