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[D.Lo]

It's going to be used in a homemade arcade cabinet running MAME, so that shouldn't be a problem

I'm still wondering if I'll need to use a scanline generator, though. We'll see.

Pre- Dreamcast arcade games run at 240p. If you want the best picture, you really need a 240p monitor, or the graphics will look crappy and emulated.

 

[televator]

no dude, he's talking about HD CRT. I know, it's not clear, I made the same mistake earlier.

The thing is 240 is half 480, yet the black line are really thin on an SD display. You could barely see them on a cheap CRT and only notice them on dark colours. Now, 480 isn't half 720, 360 is. 480 is 2/3 of 720. So you would have even thinner black lines on a 720p screen displaying 480p content. And the fact is you can't see them, except maybe looking very closely at the screen or with a magnifying glass. The other thing to take into account is that the width of the line depends of the brightness of the pixel. It's also why, even though you can't see black lines at 480p on a 720p display, you can still display 720 lines, as the brighter pixels would sort of shine over its dimmer upper and lower neighbours. You don't see the separation because there are no separate cells being switched on and off like on an LCD, the electron beam itself makes the separation.

Aha, okay, now I follow the convo. We're talking specifically about the quirks of some CRTs. I was thinking more along the lines (no, this is not a pun) of what sixfour added.

 

[geniusbits]

Oh, I see.

Also, to add to this: Depending on what type of CRT we're talking about, it's possible that it would change its "native resolution" (so to speak) to account for the video source. A PC monitor would sort of work like this. I've heard (but never verified) that some HD CRT TVs actually work differently and will attempt to upscale an SD source to the TV's max resolution. Such a TV would not have pronounced scanlines like an SDTV CRT would.

How can you change the native resolution and still fill the screen? Different size lines?

 

[baphomet]

It's going to be used in a homemade arcade cabinet running MAME, so that shouldn't be a problem

I'm still wondering if I'll need to use a scanline generator, though. We'll see.

Well if you're running 480p you will want an slg.

Personally I would recommend still try for a setup that would output 15khz if I were doing a mame cab.

 

[entremet]

Does anyone know if 3rd Strike on the PS2 collection is 240P?

 

[EasyMode]

Does anyone know if 3rd Strike on the PS2 collection is 240P?

Sadly, it's 480i. I know the Dreamcast version had a 240p "de-interlaced" mode, but it didn't look quite right (scaling artifacts and dithering IIRC).

The Dreamcast 2nd Impact port was legit 240p though. Looked real pretty on my CRT back in the day.

 

[NormalFish]

Has anyone played the Metal Slug Complete/Anthology collection on PS2 with the framemeister? What's the resolution? How clean does it look?

 

[Funky Papa]

Pre- Dreamcast arcade games run at 240p. If you want the best picture, you really need a 240p monitor, or the graphics will look crappy and emulated.

Well if you're running 480p you will want an slg.

Personally I would recommend still try for a setup that would output 15khz if I were doing a mame cab.

Yeah, well. My loins yearn for a NEC XM-29, but a nice Trinitron monitor will allow me to run VGA video and above for a tiny amount of money and without the headaches from decasing and servicing an old TV, not to mention dealing with drivers. I looked REALLY hard at the TV option (god, they are so cheap right now) before realising that they were way too complicated for a first time noob like me. I'll probably get a RetroVGA 2 SGL since it allows for intensity and thickness tweaking while I teach myself the wizardry of HLSL and Hyperspin.

Maybe I'll go the TV route next time if this project doesn't get me completely out of my wits.

 

[Khaz]

How can you change the native resolution and still fill the screen? Different size lines?

Different line space. Or more exactly different horizontal and vertical scanning speed.

See this documentation for example, and more specifically this table:

Using simple maths you can calculate how many lines would be on your screen based on the horizontal and vertical scanning frequencies alone.

 

[Peltz]

Has anyone played the Metal Slug Complete/Anthology collection on PS2 with the framemeister? What's the resolution? How clean does it look?

480i unfortunately. It looks really great on a CRT... but it looks very "noisy" and gross on a framemeister.

As far as I know, there's no official way to play the Metal Slug games in 240p unless you play them on Neo Geo hardware.

Edit: Maybe the Wii VC has them in 240p, but they remove the hit flashes in boss fights in those versions, so to me, they're totally ruined because you can't tell whether you've hit the boss with explosion splash-damage when using grenades, the shotgun, or the Metal Slug cannon.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

My bro recently bought the Atari flashback console.

Which upscaler do I need? It looks like shit on TV and can barely reach the games names from the menu

thanks in advance

 

[Khaz]

My bro recently bought the Atari flashback console.

Which upscaler do I need? It looks like shit on TV and can barely reach the games names from the menu

thanks in advance

You won't like the answer to that question.

 

[Funky Papa]

"I'm sorry, I thought we had the Trinitron, but it turns out we already sold it. Would you be interested in a LaCie Electron Blue IV instead?"

*Googles*

"30 bucks? Yeah, sure".

Edit: Dat weight, tho.

Edit 2: Fucking hell, it does looks beastly. From some dude at Assembler using it with his Dreamcast:

I'm so moist right now.

 

[Khaz]

Horizontal frequency 30 kHz - 140 kHz

Dammit why would they make a display with such a massive range, yet fail to extend it down to 15kHz? It's like there's a magical frontier between 15kHz and 31kHz, where everything is either fixed 15kHz or 30kHz and beyond. No CRT manufacturers cared about low res, not even back in the days

[edit] That shot of DoA2 is the answer to the other poster wondering about visible scanlines at 480p. There you go buddy.

 

[geniusbits]

[edit] That shot of DoA2 is the answer to the other poster wondering about visible scanlines at 480p. There you go buddy.

There was a post many pages ago that showed scan lines on a DC screen and the poster looked into it and found it was rendering a unique resolution. But if that is indeed 480p and the native resolution of the monitor is 1200 lines or something then it makes sense. I don't know why HD CRT TVs (commercial stuff, XBR series say) can't do that but instead upscale everything to their native resolution (usually 720p or 480p).

 

[Khaz]

They upscale 240p to 480p for the same reason this LaCie monitor has to: they can't slow down the horizontal scan rate to 15kHz when allowing for 31 - 45 kHz. I suppose there are technical hurdles to do so, and the few CRT that did were professional monitors costing tens of thousands dollars new back in the day.

 

[geniusbits]

They upscale 240p to 480p for the same reason this LaCie monitor has to: they can't slow down the horizontal scan rate to 15kHz when allowing for 31 - 45 kHz. I suppose there are technical hurdles to do so, and the few CRT that did were professional monitors costing tens of thousands dollars new back in the day.

I'm talking strictly 480p content on a higher than 480p screen. That monitor has a hugely variably scan rate, would it lock onto 31khz for the DC or do something with it? I feel like I'm beating a dead horse but for some reason I'm both very curious yet unsatisfied with the information I have to explain how multi scan HD CRTs would handle various inputs.

 

[Khaz]

I don't know what to tell you, you have all the information needed to understand how a CRT displays a picture.

The signal sent to a CRT doesn't only include the picture, it also has a line for horizontal synchronisation and vertical synchronisation. Basically a ping to tell the display when to have the electron beam in the top left corner. on an SD CRT with a fixed scan rate, the display doesn't have anything to do except wait for the ping to start drawing. On a CRT with a variable scan rate like a European TV or a computer screen, the display measures the time between two pings and adjusts the speed of the scan rate in order to have the full picture onscreen. With older CRT, you had to do that manually with potentiometers.

If you are old enough to have used CRT computer screens, I'm sure you had the experience of selecting a resolution in Windows higher than what your monitor could manage, and the result would look like an interlaced double picture.

 

[D.Lo]

PSP Go to Framemeister. Pretty awesome PS1 experience.

240p. Wireless PS3 controller connected via bluetooth. No discs.

 

[Huggers]

Guys if I want to play some Dreamcast stuff on my BVM which only takes Component and RGB what are my options? Can this be done?

 

[drhankmccoyphd]

Guys if I want to play some Dreamcast stuff on my BVM which only takes Component and RGB what are my options? Can this be done?

How about something like this if you have a VGA box? http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=5031&gclid=CIXkiaCii8gCFYdffgode4cJJw

 

[Huggers]

How about something like this if you have a VGA box? http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=5031&gclid=CIXkiaCii8gCFYdffgode4cJJw

That looks just the ticket. Thanks! Can anyone confirm this would be all good?

 

[baphomet]

That looks just the ticket. Thanks! Can anyone confirm this would be all good?

Is your BVM 480p?

 

[entremet]

PSP Go to Framemeister. Pretty awesome PS1 experience.

240p. Wireless PS3 controller connected via bluetooth. No discs.

That's really good to know.

I love the Go.

Mine was stolen

I need to rebuy one.

 

[KC-Slater]

Guys if I want to play some Dreamcast stuff on my BVM which only takes Component and RGB what are my options? Can this be done?

I sadly can confirm that will not work unless your BVM supports 480p. I felt gutted when I tried the same thing with my PVM, and was reduced to using S-Video.

 

[Huggers]

Is your BVM 480p?

I sadly can confirm that will not work unless your BVM supports 480p. I felt gutted when I tried the same thing with my PVM, and was reduced to using S-Video.

Nope it doesn't. 480i... Shit. Am I out of options (short of getting a VGA board for the back of the BVM?)

Whilst we're on the subject why the fuck doesn't the Dreamcast have RGB?

 

[baphomet]

Nope it doesn't. 480i... Shit. Am I out of options (short of getting a VGA board for the back of the BVM?)

A VGA board (never seen one myself) won't make it support 480p. Unfortunately 240p/480i are your only choices for that monitor.

 

[Peagles]

Anyone get a kind of noisy video output with a Mega Drive on the Framemeister? It's most noticeable on black. I kind if expected the MD to outshine the SFC but it's heaps worse. Should I get a raw sync cable maybe?

Also, Kenzei or Toro?

 

[Khaz]

Anyone get a kind of noisy video output with a Mega Drive on the Framemeister? It's most noticeable on black. I kind if expected the MD to outshine the SFC but it's heaps worse. Should I get a raw sync cable maybe?

Also, Kenzei or Toro?

Noisy as in occasional dark red, blue or green pixel on an otherwise black background? It may be because your cable isn't shielded enough, you would be visualising the equivalent of the buzzing audio.

 

[Peagles]

Noisy as in occasional dark red, blue or green pixel on an otherwise black background? It may be because your cable isn't shielded enough, you would be visualising the equivalent of the buzzing audio.

Naw it's more like... It's not solid black. It's like it's off black and a bit shimmering like you'd see on an LCD but I'm using a plasma and with the SFC the blacks are super black and solid. I might try take a video. I'm just using a cable from Retro Console Accessories and it looks amazing on my PVM but not so good on the Framemeister.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Whilst we're on the subject why the fuck doesn't the Dreamcast have RGB?

It does.

 

[Timu]

Nope it doesn't. 480i... Shit. Am I out of options (short of getting a VGA board for the back of the BVM?)

Whilst we're on the subject why the fuck doesn't the Dreamcast have RGB?

Huh? It does have RGB.

 

[Gruso]

Argh. There was a Gumtree ad listing a whole bunch of SNES carts and consoles with itemised pricing. Tucked away at the end without fanfare: An XRGB-3 for 200AUD / 150USD. I emailed twice, no response, then the ad was pulled.

Goodnight sweet unicorn. I wish I'd never seen you

 

[Peltz]

Dreamcast has rather glorious RGB output. You solved your own pickle good sir.

 

[D.Lo]

Anyone get a kind of noisy video output with a Mega Drive on the Framemeister? It's most noticeable on black. I kind if expected the MD to outshine the SFC but it's heaps worse. Should I get a raw sync cable maybe?

Also, Kenzei or Toro?

What level is your sync set to? High levels introduce noise on black.

Mega Drive has weak sync, so I'm guessing fairly high?

 

[Peagles]

What level is your sync set to? High levels introduce noise on black.

Mega Drive has weak sync, so I'm guessing fairly high?

Good point. I haven't done any setup on the XRGB yet so I have no idea. Will check it out tonight. Need to upgrade the firmware too. RCA has a sync boosted cable available, heck mine might even have the sync booster... I'll check my old eBay emails.

 

[Mega]

I was browsing CRT stuff online and stumbled upon a random Chan post about a guy unboxing a brand new 13" Olympus OEV, a rebranded PVM. The thought of unopened BVMs and PVMs out there in the wild, zero hours on the chassis, not having gone through years of nonstop use by a hospital, videographer or TV studio...

On that note, Adorama has new JVC professional-grade HD CRT monitors for sale... Only $1100! Not that bad if these things are truly brand new. I can't help wondering if they're clearing stock or if they're still being made somewhere.

Anyway I finally found an eBay seller with Extron CSR 6 Phoenix to RCA audio adapter cables. Six adapters and I snatched them up. Contacted the seller and he had TEN more, the exact total I need for my Extron switch. It wasn't cheap altogether but each was still a fraction of Extron's $30~ asking price for one.

 

[entremet]

I really wish the Framemeister was cheaper.

It seems it would do better if it was cheaper, especially with this retro craze. Couple that with a cable store and they can make some bank.

 

[Timu]

I really wish the Framemeister was cheaper.

Agreed.

 

[Beer Monkey]

How do Wii VC games look on a Wii U running at 480p running through a Framemeister? Looking to add a scanline aesthetic on my 1080p Kuro.

 

[Huggers]

It does.

Huh? It does have RGB.

I've had it in my head for years that it didn't! Fairly sure I just made it up and then decided it was true. Extremely odd behaviour! Good news though as it's one of the few consoles I haven't re-bought for this exact reason.

How do Wii VC games look on a Wii U running at 480p running through a Framemeister? Looking to add a scanline aesthetic on my 1080p Kuro.

I would imagine they'd look excellent. The Wii VC through RGB on a CRT is pretty fantastic

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Virtual Console quality tends to vary by the system it's emulating.

NES VC is a flat "no."

 

[catabarez]

The Framemeister may be expensive, but it is a great piece of hardware. I've seen a few on ebay that are about $100 cheaper than retail. I also use it as an HDMI switcher and I even hook up my component capable consoles to it.

Edit: Oh this is something I meant to ask a while ago, is there any difference in picture quality between d-terminal and component?

 

[BocoDragon]

The Framemeister may be expensive, but it is a great piece of hardware. I've seen a few on ebay that are about $100 cheaper than retail. I also use it as an HDMI switcher and I even hook up my component capable consoles to it.

Edit: Oh this is something I meant to ask a while ago, is there any difference in picture quality between d-terminal and component?

I imagine this is image processed and is subject to the same (minor) lag as most Framemeister signals? It can't be used as just a straight up pass-through switcher?

I actually need a few more HDMI inputss now. Even if it has lag I guess I can use it to hook up the HD cable box that I get for free in my apartment and never even watch...http://www.neogaf.com/forum/member.php?u=9459

Lord knows what else those HDMI inputs on the Framemeister are for. What was their thinking behind that, anyway?

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I imagine this is image processed and is subject to the same (minor) lag as most Framemeister signals? It can't be used as just a straight up pass-through switcher?

I think there's an option in the menu to disable all processing on HDMI inputs, but I wouldn't know for sure.

 

[televator]

Yeah the Framemeister is a great scaler... let's not forget that great scalers in broader home theater markets can easily double, triple, quadruple, the cost of a Framemeister.

Would it be nice if it were cheaper? Sure. But we are lucky that it doesn't cost what it really should cost as enthusiast level scalers tend to go.

 

[Peagles]

What level is your sync set to? High levels introduce noise on black.

Mega Drive has weak sync, so I'm guessing fairly high?

Okay it was a few notches up but seems to be the same on 0. I'll take a pic next time I'm playing but it's like, on the SFC, I can't differentiate between the bars on the side of my plasma and the blacks on the SFC image, but on the MD there's a clear distinction, like it's not just black but slightly coloured.

 

[Madao]

the FM does have an option that passes the signal without any processing from the HDMI inputs. i've barely messed with it so i don't know if it has lag or any weird stuff.

 

[catabarez]

I imagine this is image processed and is subject to the same (minor) lag as most Framemeister signals? It can't be used as just a straight up pass-through switcher?

I actually need a few more HDMI inputss now. Even if it has lag I guess I can use it to hook up the HD cable box that I get for free in my apartment and never even watch...http://www.neogaf.com/forum/member.php?u=9459

Lord knows what else those HDMI inputs on the Framemeister are for. What was their thinking behind that, anyway?

There is an option that allows it to pass-through the HDMI signal. I believe one of the more recent firmware updates added it. It definitely works with surround sound as well if anyone is wondering.

 

[televator]

Edit: Oh this is something I meant to ask a while ago, is there any difference in picture quality between d-terminal and component?

All things being equal in cable quality... they are literally the exact same thing. You can easily reterminate D-terminal cables into Component plugs. So no difference in quality.