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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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IrishNinja
Member
best part was i was literally stuck on a boss in bloodborne when i was checking the forums to cool off for a bit & saw that, haha
Huggers
Member
Are the main line Souls games on 32x as well?
Noisepurge
Member
sixteen-bit
Member
Little known fact. The best game in the Dark Souls trilogy was actually a Nintendo DS-exclusive
Wow. I'm surprised Sega's lawyers let it slide. Good on them.Little known fact. The best game in the Dark Souls trilogy was actually a Nintendo DS-exclusive
geniusbits
Member
lulz
In other news, sweet BVM alert, just saw this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-Trinitron-24-BVM-D24EWU-Color-Video-Monitor-13519-Hrs-41HD-Module-/201462091754?hash=item2ee8138fea:g:YUQAAOSwT5tWO6OK
It's a 24 inch 16:9 with 1000 lines (whether in 16:9 or 4:3 mode) and looks to have a separate YPbPr input from the RGB one so you wouldn't have to switch between the two. Low ass hours too, ~13,000. If I hadn't already sunk about $500-600 into my stuff and lived in California close enough to pick it up I would seriously consider this one.
theSlacker
Member
StevieWhite
Member
Weird question guys - I want to hook up a Magnavox Odyssey 2 to an XRGB mini and futz around with the color overlay features they added in the last firmware... is this possible? Would a coax to composite adapter do the trick?
sixteen-bit
Member
Yup. Stockpile 'em. I know I would.
Hook me up if you're not taking them all! Well, I'm just curious what's in the lot if you find out and don't mind sharing. I really don't have room for more monitors unless I swap out one of the ones I have and get rid of it.
I'm mainly looking for a 20" HD BVM upgrade but I always like looking around for whatever. Lately I'm a little obsessed with finding a late model Ikegami master monitor. I think they're still being made or only recently ceased production. They are still being sold as new in a couple of places.
The shipping on that D24 is going to cost a ton and I know that seller won't accept reasonable offers around $200. I couldn't carry that thing up to my place anyway. Same as when I saw that 29" PVM and knew I wouldn't be able to carry it into a car, much less up several flights of stairs.
geniusbits
Member
I think carrying it would be a 3 person job to be safe. As far as a reasonable offer, I think closer to $400 would be reasonable. People are regularly paying up to $100 or more for 14 and 20" non-HD 4:3 BVM/PVMs with more hours and less inputs. A 20" 4:3 HD BVM would go for at least $250 on eBay, the Lorton VA group is getting >$200 for most of their 20" screens and none of them are HD. The only monitor better than this one, and that's debatable, is the 32" BVM. If I could get this D24 for ~$300 I would consider that a steal. I'm not interested in shipping though because of the cost and danger.
entremet
Member
It's still a "might" He doesn't know if they're even working. He's checking and testing them for me.
I don't have a car. I live in NYC. So I'll probably take 3 at the most if those are available.
Glad to see this thread is still alive! I had questions several months back about doing a certain setup but I sort of lost interest due to reasons. Casually browsing GAF and seeing the posts here have piqued my curiosity again. I apologize for repeating myself but this time I have pictures to help.
Like this past summer, I'm curious to see the results I could get from hooking up a Wii to an old CRT PC monitor I have, (I assume its a CRT because of the bulkiness but there doesn't seem to be visible scan lines). For best picture quality of course I plan to use the Wii component cables to be hooked up into some type of converter box at the "IN" end, and then the VGA cable coming from the "OUT" end into the back of the monitor (or something to that effect).
Something like this Monoprice box
Or this BIRUGEAR one
Both of these are essentially the same basic item, oddly all the reviews on the BIRUGEAR box are listed for another item all together (an RCA selector box) for some reason.
[EDIT:]
I decided to just link to the Imgur album I created that has the photos of the monitor/cables for convenience since my first edit's photo was too large and the second time it just wouldn't appear in the post.
http://imgur.com/a/wbXzW
The first two pics are of the monitor I'd like to try using, an old HP Pavillion. Haven't used it in several years but I remember it having a great sharp picture on my old Vista PC back then. I haven't yet tested it with something to see if it still works but hasn't been damaged or bumped since moving it to the basement (hopefully).
There's also a photo of the VGA cable. It and the pinkish cable are both together as one thick cable permanently attached to the back of the monitor, I'm assuming the pinkish one is supposed to be for audio? I can find a way to somehow route that to get sound from an external set of speakers but right now the picture is the concern.
The last photo is of another old HP monitor but it's some kind of LCD or LED one. I might use it if I'm unable to use the HP CRT.
Like this past summer, I'm curious to see the results I could get from hooking up a Wii to an old CRT PC monitor I have, (I assume its a CRT because of the bulkiness but there doesn't seem to be visible scan lines). For best picture quality of course I plan to use the Wii component cables to be hooked up into some type of converter box at the "IN" end, and then the VGA cable coming from the "OUT" end into the back of the monitor (or something to that effect).
Something like this Monoprice box
Or this BIRUGEAR one
Both of these are essentially the same basic item, oddly all the reviews on the BIRUGEAR box are listed for another item all together (an RCA selector box) for some reason.
[EDIT:]
I decided to just link to the Imgur album I created that has the photos of the monitor/cables for convenience since my first edit's photo was too large and the second time it just wouldn't appear in the post.
http://imgur.com/a/wbXzW
The first two pics are of the monitor I'd like to try using, an old HP Pavillion. Haven't used it in several years but I remember it having a great sharp picture on my old Vista PC back then. I haven't yet tested it with something to see if it still works but hasn't been damaged or bumped since moving it to the basement (hopefully).
There's also a photo of the VGA cable. It and the pinkish cable are both together as one thick cable permanently attached to the back of the monitor, I'm assuming the pinkish one is supposed to be for audio? I can find a way to somehow route that to get sound from an external set of speakers but right now the picture is the concern.
The last photo is of another old HP monitor but it's some kind of LCD or LED one. I might use it if I'm unable to use the HP CRT.
the Bleach game was probably small time and not worth the hassle. i think it has a different name in japan, where Sega is based also.
$300 isn't absolutely terrible in the grand scheme, but Ebay prices for Sony RGB monitors are still super inflated. Sellers have since caught on to the retro gaming craze and are taking advantage of a highly niche group of gamers. They were selling nowhere near this much several years ago when the monitors were arguably in better shape. The prices are also a lot higher than what you would pay if you found them in the wild: mere double digits or free in some cases. People who don't know about gaming or don't care about making a quick buck are junking these things or giving them away for almost nothing.
The 4:3 picture of the D24 is the same, maybe a bit smaller than a 20" model. The widescreen is nice for Gen 6 games and not having to fiddle with the varying horizontal resolution width of different 240p games. Still it's a an old monitor with aging parts, very heavy and bulky with limited uses. It's not truly worth more than $100-200 if not for a tiny group of us fighting for the very few that make their way to ebay. There are many more sitting unused for years in storage spaces, basements, garages, production studios and recycling/junk centers. Plus countless others long destroyed.
If I can find an HD BVM or newish Ikegami to swap in with one of my existing monitors, I'll probably give away my 20M4U, which is currently backup for my SD BVM. Maybe ask for $40 at most to recoup the cost + my transportation expenses when I got it (taxi both ways).
IrishNinja
Member
im like the only souls fan in here, aren't i
oh wow, i'd totally play that
sorry, the ZX Spectrum games were never ported to the 32x,
oh wow, i'd totally play that
Nope, I've been a fan since Demon's.
geniusbits
Member
I feel like there is too much bad economics going on in this thread and similar ones, where people talk about what something is "worth."
1) Value is subjective, if more people want something and are willing to pay more for it, that's what it's worth. That's why these monitors aren't selling for $5-20k anymore, because there is less demand for them. Just because some early adopters 5 or more years ago picked up a monitor or 2 for <$100 doesn't mean that's what it's "worth." That is no more valid than saying they are "worth" thousands because that's what they originally sold for.
2) higher prices = more availability, one of the reasons more pro monitors are showing up on eBay is because of the higher prices people think they can get. If you have a piece of gear you no longer use and can either throw it out in your dumpster or sell it, you will only sell it if the price you get is worth your time and effort. There are many things I have thrown out in life that would have some marginal value to someone else, but not enough to compensate for me taking pictures, uploading them, etc.
This is probably going to rile people up but these are immutable laws and complaining about higher prices or whatever is a waste of typing, it won't change anything. If someone is willing to pay $800 for that D24 BVM, that's what it's worth at that moment. If you really wanted prices to come down you would be telling everyone that these things are garbage and shouldn't be used, because it's the very gamers this thread and other online communities have converted to RGB retro gaming that are bidding up the gear. Isn't that obvious?
NormalFish
Banned
well worth is somewhat subjective, so it's not something that can easily be boiled down to a single number, but generally worth = the highest price an individual will pay for the product.
That said, when you're looking for how much something is worth, that definition isn't terribly useful and you're better off looking at averages that people have payed for the product. Anyone going to ebay and saying "this game is worth 65$ because that's the highest price on ebay!" clearly is confused.
IrishNinja
Member
numbers are imaginary
all things in life are subjective
we are raising these imaginary numbers on old things by subjectively talking about them
we are thereby gods, of nothing at all~
all things in life are subjective
we are raising these imaginary numbers on old things by subjectively talking about them
we are thereby gods, of nothing at all~
D.Lo
Member
If you pay lower than top dollar (normally 'retail price' for new goods), that's a 'bargain' because it's 'less than what its's worth'.
Worth is somewhat subjective as a term, but can generally be seen as what the market will pay up to for any particular item in normal circumstances.
Most bargains on eBay, for example, are because the seller doesn't know what they can get for an item, so lists it too low, in the wrong category, in the wrong way, or limits number of customers by location, or postage method, or simply by using auction format, since many people have no patience for 'the game' and waiting for an auction to end. Using lowest or median price includes items with these disadvantages.
geniusbits
Member
Because, at least in a market society, exchanges are voluntary. If you prefer a society where some kind of violence assures an owner of something sells it to someone at other than the price they wish, that's a different issue.
geniusbits
Member
As soon as something is produced its in the same realm as the oldest thing you can find, value subjective to buyers.
A thought experiment, say you put $1 trillion of r&d, production and marketing into a screen that doesn't display anything. What is it worth?
IrishNinja
Member
it is worth nothing
yet it is worth everything
time is a flat circle, which is trending at $17.50 (free shipping - you'll earn $0.56 in eBay Bucks)
yet it is worth everything
time is a flat circle, which is trending at $17.50 (free shipping - you'll earn $0.56 in eBay Bucks)
geniusbits
Member
It's a self correcting situation. There is no permanent worth of any of this stuff, as you all know. If someone sold an M4A PVM for $500, that's how much it was worth at that moment. For someone to say that is how much M4As are worth is not only incorrect but missing the point. However, if all M4A sellers listed at $500 they would soon learn that is not what it is worth any more as buyers would not pay, and they would either have to keep the monitor or lower the price. If, on the other hand, buyers did pay the $500 (and belly ache that they were paying more than it's "worth") they would be explicitly showing that the monitor is worth that much, by the fact that they are giving away that much for it. If something isn't "worth" the money, you by definition will not pay that amount for it.
P.S. sorry for taking this off the rails but it's about the 100th time I've read someone say something isn't worth a certain price and it has been driving me crazy.
IrishNinja
Member
They probably mean more on a personal level. I have a sense of what things are worth to me, it doesn't have to match the economically determined value, or whatever.
geniusbits
Member
What something is worth to you is the economic value.
IrishNinja
Member
nobody wants my economic values
spider-man: web of fire would be a quarter
zombies ate my neighbors would be a grand
I doubt it, I'm a poor cheap arse.
If you prefer to give in to sellers who know they are overcharging until you or someone else bites, be my guest. EBay is a small piece, a single website where everyone is eyeing the next person to see what they're charging. It doesn't always represent a product's overall market value when all purchasing venues are considered. Just like the exorbitant prices at retro game stores in the middle of Manhattan are not indicative of what one would normally pay, except in (most of) those cases the crazy prices are due to the high overhead cost of owning retail in New York City and not a deliberate decision to bilk buyers out of every possible dollar as is common practice to eBay.
A 2015 Macbook costs about the same everywhere and people will pay that price knowing it won't get much better or worse anywhere they go. If I can go to a warehouse and pay $20 for a PVM, or to a medical reseller and fork over $70, get them free from hospitals, browse CL and pick one up for $40 or nothing, or bid on a liquidation site for a batch of five and win for $100~, or listen to stories about how people throw them away en masse, it calls into question what happens on eBay.
It's simple. Too few listings, too many people laser focused on that one popular website and those few listings, a good deal of unawareness of the options of what's really out there in the market. Add to that too many overpriced listings going unbought after multiple relistings with no price drops. People pay $300 for Lorton guy's BVMs because it's the best thing on eBay (in contrast to trash BIN prices) and they don't bother looking elsewhere, not because that's what it's worth in the wider world. Case in point: I've bought a bunch of Neo Geo games for a lot less than what ebay sellers try to tell people they're worth.
EBay is not the end-all of what something is worth. Yeah, fine, it's worth whatever someone will pay at that moment. But I'm merely replying to your statement that the D24 is worth $"400" when I think no, it isn't. Only on ebay for the reasons above.
sqrt(-1) is, indeed.
Im a huge fan as well, basically the only game series I play these days on the PS/Xbox outside of some fighting games once in a while.
D.Lo
Member
If the highest prices are on eBay, that just means it's the most effective market. All those other scenarios you described are selling below top dollar because of the method by which they choose to sell. The items sold in warehouses and hospitals etc have had their sale prices disadvantaged by the method of sale. If I choose to limit the sale of my car to just the people in my apartment block, it adds convenience to me, but I won't get as much as listing on a more open market with a larger number of potential buyers.
Those are not necessarily indicative of market worth, though are not necessarily overpriced either, it may just mean that there were no buyers after that item and willing to pay that price that saw it for the duration of the auction. Many items sit on store shelves at retail price for months, but still sell eventually sell at retail price. If someone has re-listed something for a year at the same price, well they're possibly fooling themselves if it's far above what most sell for, but I have personally listed items for up to six months which eventually sold at the original price.
Searching completed listings sorted by highest price first is more indicative of worth at the moment, over whatever period eBay lets you see (60 days I believe).
Everyone always wants top dollar, why would they not? Otherwise you are doing a favour to the buyer - which you may do that for family or charity, or you may do it for convenience (like my apartment block example above), but there's nothing wrong with getting top dollar. There's not even really any opportunity for unfair salesmanship on eBay, everything is equal, the only advantage you can give yourself (apart from useless 'featured item crap) is having a better product clearly displayed.
Bugs me being a "seller beware" type, knowing people can put a bit of research and work (making a call or emailing someone) and save a bunch of money, but I guess that's convenience and a popular platform for ya.
Bit related, I did rip into the Retro VGS guys on another thread for going to Indiegogo and not where the people shelling out money really are: Kickstarter.
Bit related, I did rip into the Retro VGS guys on another thread for going to Indiegogo and not where the people shelling out money really are: Kickstarter.
eye cum negotiator
Banned
Nevermind.
I've got your back, Irish.
I'm still playing through Demon's for the first time and it's one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had,
I may have just started a new job and took a short break to bang out a quick run of Chrono Trigger, but I'm coming back to my file either tonight or tomorrow.
sixteen-bit
Member
Nobody mentioned phonedork released a new video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2UPiNQmFVo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2UPiNQmFVo
NormalFish
Banned
Saw this earlier. Casting dota and then I'll check it out.
Eh, a bit standard. I use comparable settings. I need to find a way to balance scanlines with brightness, since it's frequently a bit too dark.
What do you mean you use comparable settings? I thought this was his own filter and not the painted on scanlines of the XRGB?
Edit: Just watched it again in 720p. Too bad he didn't upload in 1080, but it does look reaaaaly good... Phonedork about to become the hero we need if this all works out.
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