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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
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I'm sure you'll be pleased that the endless private messages will now stop!
No worries, you weren't a bother and it was only a few times here and there. I meant more your weeks of looking and disappointment. Glad you found an awesome deal.
In truth, your search isn't really done. >
davidwhangchoi
Member
unfortunately i dont, i just have the blurry rgb one. serial number UN25
i guess i should've asked you before grabbing a snesl =D
i hope it's not too blurry.
davidwhangchoi
Member
damn... thanks for sharing your experience. i'm so new to rgb' ing, all this info helps.
i guess i'll have to hunt for a snes mini...
Serial number on mine is UN32 so I believe it's a 1-Chip.
davidwhangchoi
Member
you lucky dog. you should open it and confirm, only if you have the tools and like tinkering.
I don't open consoles.=O Mine is said to be a late model though.
Shin Johnpv
Member
What's the price on it?
Though honestly most of those cheap upscallers do a really poor job with 240p content and introduce a lot of lag. Not that I've seen or used that one itself, but the vast majority of them all seem the same.
Though honestly most of those cheap upscallers do a really poor job with 240p content and introduce a lot of lag. Not that I've seen or used that one itself, but the vast majority of them all seem the same.
NormalFish
Banned
More importantly, there's nothing you can do to make composite look anything but a blurry mess. I'd only use a composite -> HDMI box like that if all you want is a way to get your system to HDMI and you don't care about image quality, input lag, accuracy, or any of that.
If you want a quick and dirty solution, and your TV doesn't have component in, at least get a component -> HDMI box instead.
If you want a quick and dirty solution, and your TV doesn't have component in, at least get a component -> HDMI box instead.
Harlock
Member
Beer Monkey
Member
So what's the hotness for HDMI to VGA adapters these days? 480p is fine, though 720p could be a nice bonus in certain situations. Just looking for clean conversion, no effects.
Sorry if already was asked, but this thing is any good? Or at least good enough for the price?
It's composite on an HD display. At best, it'll look like shit. At worst, it'll look like even shittier shit.
Edit: Its also worth noting that many HD displays that did away with discrete composite connectors and still retain component connectors, actually just merged composite input through the component plugs. That is to say, that your TV might still recognize composite plugged in through its component input plugs.
Sorry if already was asked, but this thing is any good? Or at least good enough for the price?
It's kinda ass, I bought one out of curiosity, was a waste...
Yeah these kind of boxes are only useful if your display has only HDMI, like a computer screen. Otherwise, your TV internal upscaler probably does a better job.
[edit] I'm not sure about that, but does an LCD TV adds lag when displaying a native resolution signal? If so, the internal upscaler would be faster than an external solution.
[edit] I'm not sure about that, but does an LCD TV adds lag when displaying a native resolution signal? If so, the internal upscaler would be faster than an external solution.
RadarScope1
Member
OK, so I've finally had a bit to tinker with my new monitors. Only RGB cables I have are for Genesis and ..... no sync. I get a signal but it's warped and scrolling. I have a model 1 and bought cables from retro_console_accessories and wookiewin that are supposed to work for that model. Suggestions? Do I have the wrong cables somehow?
Otherwise the S-video with a 1Chip SNES, and the composite NES and FC signals look pretty darn nice for what they are.
Otherwise the S-video with a 1Chip SNES, and the composite NES and FC signals look pretty darn nice for what they are.
Are they composite video as sync or c-sync?
RadarScope1
Member
Composite video as sync, according to my order.
Oh, well, c-sync is typically recommended for Genesis, I have one and it works flawlessly with my model 1.
RadarScope1
Member
Hmm. Why would the seller say it's compatible, though? Would I have to replace both cables or does the BNC adaptor work with whatever sync input you give it?
It's compatible but some sync devices or displays may need c-sync from it since I hear the Genesis sync is weak without c-sync or so.
It's compatible because Composite Video carries a directly exploitable csync pulse. However some displays, although rare, are confused by the added fluff of the Composite Video signal. You can either add a sync stripper (some of them you can solder within the Scart plug) or get a new csync cable.
RadarScope1
Member
Ok, sounds like the easiest solution is to swap the composite sync cable for a csync one. Damn, I thought I had carefully researched this, too. Shit, shit. Really annoying. I've messaged her. Think she would swap one for me?
Do I need a new BNC cable, too, or do those just act as a pass-through?
So it's rare for displays to act like this? Both of the monitors I have are doing it (a Sony and a JVC)...
Do I need a new BNC cable, too, or do those just act as a pass-through?
So it's rare for displays to act like this? Both of the monitors I have are doing it (a Sony and a JVC)...
She should. I got one like that for my nes RGB, had the same issue, but my problem was solved by a omega mvs scart cable that happened to use the same pins. She just gave me a refund.
Passthrough. Seems common with the Genesis.
On a related note I probably need a better VGA to Scart cable. My MAME PC on the JVC CRT has distorted geometry at the top. Looks perfect outputting simultaneously to the BVM (and everything else on the JVC runs well). Could it be a weak sync signal from the cable which the BVM is better able to handle?
RadarScope1
Member
EDIT/UPDATE: Turns out I just needed to hit the external sync button on my JVC monitor. Don't see a similar button on my Sony but I assume that's the issue there, too. Looks fucking ace!
D.Lo
Member
Not marketing, boosted sync includes an amplifier for the sync signal.
Necessary for Mega Drive/Master System/Mark III consoles in my experience, as they have weak sync and you get the occasional dropout without the boost, especially on Framemesiter.
Hawk269
Member
I received my Framemeister, but am having some serious issues. I cannot seem to get any audio out of it. I tried my Dreamcast, Genesis, Saturn, Nes and no audio. I have video, but cannot get audio. I turned the audio setting within the Framemeister to it's max, but regardless of what I do, I cannot get audio.
I have the HDMI Out in the back of the unit going to the TV and my TV then outputs the audio to my receiver. I even tried setting the TV to use TV speakers instead of the receiver and still no audio. I know audio is working because I can disconnect it from the framemeister and using the same cables connect direct to the TV and I have audio.
Any suggestions? It has been a really frustrating night so far with this thing. I also get a weird colored purplish screen when using it...the only way to fix it is to disconnect the HDMI from the unit and replug it back in and then the colors are fine. Really bizarre stuff.
Did a Google search and found someone else having the same exact issue. No audio and a weird tint colored screen. Here is how he explained his issues:
Everything from the composite or s-video inputs has a pink/purple tint that won't go away. I've tried my NES, Genesis, TurboGrafx, and Saturn and they all look the same. Also, there's no sound for any systems plugged in through the front port. I tried a device via HDMI and it looked and sounded great.
My fix for the pink/purple tint is turning off my TV for a minute and turning it back on or disconnect the hdmi cable and reconnecting and then it is fine. But still no audio and unfortunately no one that responded to him had any solutions for the audio issues.
Any help would be appreciated...fell like I bought a $320 paperweight at the moment.
I have the HDMI Out in the back of the unit going to the TV and my TV then outputs the audio to my receiver. I even tried setting the TV to use TV speakers instead of the receiver and still no audio. I know audio is working because I can disconnect it from the framemeister and using the same cables connect direct to the TV and I have audio.
Any suggestions? It has been a really frustrating night so far with this thing. I also get a weird colored purplish screen when using it...the only way to fix it is to disconnect the HDMI from the unit and replug it back in and then the colors are fine. Really bizarre stuff.
Did a Google search and found someone else having the same exact issue. No audio and a weird tint colored screen. Here is how he explained his issues:
Everything from the composite or s-video inputs has a pink/purple tint that won't go away. I've tried my NES, Genesis, TurboGrafx, and Saturn and they all look the same. Also, there's no sound for any systems plugged in through the front port. I tried a device via HDMI and it looked and sounded great.
My fix for the pink/purple tint is turning off my TV for a minute and turning it back on or disconnect the hdmi cable and reconnecting and then it is fine. But still no audio and unfortunately no one that responded to him had any solutions for the audio issues.
Any help would be appreciated...fell like I bought a $320 paperweight at the moment.
Shin Johnpv
Member
That is a strange one Hawk. Some quick thoughts, what is the order that you're turning everything on? I typically turn the console on last. If you're turning the framemeister on before your tv and receiver maybe do it afterwards and see if that helps any.
Also are you on the latest Firmware for the framemeister? (2.02 is the latest version)
Ohh also try going into the data menu and go down and pick reset. Just to make sure you've reset all your settings to factory default in case somehow a gamma or similar setting got thrown off.
Ummm also make sure that your output is set to HDMI and not DVI (I know the framemeister doesn't have a DVI output but there's this setting for the digital signal that's output by it and it changes some things).
What else could you check, under Options is one called AV_Mute make sure that isn't on. Maybe check the HDMI set menu too and make sure the deep color, output color, and output range are set to match your TV.
Outside of that I'm not sure what else the problem could be. Did you buy it from Solaris Japan? I've heard they do have english speaking customer service and are pretty good about this sort of thing, but I don't have any first hand experience there.
Also are you on the latest Firmware for the framemeister? (2.02 is the latest version)
Ohh also try going into the data menu and go down and pick reset. Just to make sure you've reset all your settings to factory default in case somehow a gamma or similar setting got thrown off.
Ummm also make sure that your output is set to HDMI and not DVI (I know the framemeister doesn't have a DVI output but there's this setting for the digital signal that's output by it and it changes some things).
What else could you check, under Options is one called AV_Mute make sure that isn't on. Maybe check the HDMI set menu too and make sure the deep color, output color, and output range are set to match your TV.
Outside of that I'm not sure what else the problem could be. Did you buy it from Solaris Japan? I've heard they do have english speaking customer service and are pretty good about this sort of thing, but I don't have any first hand experience there.
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
I have a sound issue where sound becomes a low-frequency bubbling noise after a resolution switch. I turn the XRGB off then back on again which usually fixes it. supremely annoying, especially when streaming! The weird thing is, audio goes to the stream cap just fine, so either my TV or receiver are messing it up.
Doesn't sound like a reboot will help ya, but maybe try it out? also, agreed about resetting it to default. Might have just gotten a bunk unit.
Doesn't sound like a reboot will help ya, but maybe try it out? also, agreed about resetting it to default. Might have just gotten a bunk unit.
Hawk269
Member
I am waiting on my scart converter cable to come in so that I can use RGB on the Framemeister. Right now just using S-Video and Composite to test things.
Hawk269
Member
Thanks. I will change the order in which I turn things on, but my quick fix is to turn the TV off for a little then back on and the color seems fine.
I checked and double checked everything else you mentioned as far as settings. The one thing is the audio. Still nothing regardless of what I plug into the unit using the front inputs for the audio. Tried 4 different cables, which all work fine going directly into the TV, but no sound via the XRGB.
I bought it through Amazon, so I am going to return it if I cannot solve this today.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Do you have any other device to test the framemeister's HDMI output with, just to make sure its not something with your TV and Framemeister not talking.
There's a setting on the Framemeister for Audio input too, I can't remember the exact wording, and I'm at work so I can't check right now. I use it when I'm playing Genesis, as I send the video through SCART, and the audio runs RCA from the headphones jack on the front of my Genesis.
I think it's something like "Audio In" and the options are "RGB" and "Video". Maybe worth a look, though since you're not using RGB currently, it may not be that.
I think it's something like "Audio In" and the options are "RGB" and "Video". Maybe worth a look, though since you're not using RGB currently, it may not be that.
Yeah I know it's a real and necessary modification in the cable. I meant it sounds almost like a term you might find a console maker slapping on their crazy 90s ads or something on the packaging of a $100 Monster cable at Best Buy.
Hawk269
Member
Yes. I went direct to the TV and it did not work. I then went through my Receivers HDMI inputs and that did not work. I then tried it in the living room on our Sony 4k (my game room has a Panasonic) and still no audio. I also tried 4 different HDMI cables and nothing seems make it want to output audio.
I updated the firmware as well and still the same issue with the tint/purple screen and no audio. Unplugging the hdmi cable or turning the TV on/off fixes the color issue, but nothing have I tried gets me audio. In the updated firmware I found the audio settings and tried every combination feasible and still nothing.
This is going to be a long shot, is anyone willing to let me borrow the Scart cable adapter that allows me to run my Scart cable into the Framemeister? I have Scart cables for the Genesis, Master System & Saturn, but the only place to order the adapter cable that works with the Framemeister is in the UK and they are closed until the 18th. So if someone would not mind letting me borrow that adapter cable, it would be much appreciated. You can send me a PM and I can even buy you a Steam game of your choice $20 and under for your trouble. I am in the US as well.
BTW...Thanks to all that have been giving me suggestions to make this work. I really appreciate the community help with this.
edit...or if someone has one to sell or can link where I can buy one that would be also great. So far ebay has been a no go and have not found any other place that sells them other than the UK retailer. Looking for the one that has the sync powered included just in case I need it.
Ah, gotcha! I'm not with my Framemeister at the moment but when I get home I'll do some experimenting with it to see if I can replicate it for you, if you haven't already found a solution by then that is. I've got all sorts of cables to play with so we could at least replicate settings if I get mine working and then you'll know if your Framemeister is at fault or not.
Shin Johnpv
Member
At this point I would just return it to Amazon and get a replacement. It really sounds like something is just borked internally with the sound hardware.
I found an old eMachines 17" PC monitor a while back and decided to build a Windows 98 machine around it. The picture is freaking incredible for a consumer product. I have never seen a Sony PVM but judging by the photos compared to my pictures it looks pretty darn close. The convergence is a bit sloppy at the corners but that's to be expected. It's technically a flat viewing surface but I don't think it's a "flat tube" per say. It may be appropriate to call a good PC monitor a poor man's PVM. It even syncs at 1080p 60Hz but with a bit of overscan. I cannot believe I haven't used a CRT PC monitor for these old CD-ROM games since my high school days. They look like utter crap on my 22" 1080p LCD.
The color saturation is really washed out in these photos but in person this display is gorgeous. A mix of 240p and 480p images, I used a hard edge scanline filter for the 240p ones. Since this monitor is 31kHz only inserting a black line mask reproduces the double strike effect with real scanlines. Some games do this too such as the StarCraft character portraits during campaign mission briefings to save vertical resolution in the sprites. Only the 240p photos are a full frame shot since they blur together past that point with 480p. Screen refresh rate is 120Hz. These are huge photos so just links.
http://i.imgur.com/hvdlj8K.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jkceRnc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/T1SdkiK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/k5okdNr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/g6ZjGIv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ibtIST9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xhM1Okk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/s1w8hwX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rYPDRcK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IGVBHV2.jpg
The color saturation is really washed out in these photos but in person this display is gorgeous. A mix of 240p and 480p images, I used a hard edge scanline filter for the 240p ones. Since this monitor is 31kHz only inserting a black line mask reproduces the double strike effect with real scanlines. Some games do this too such as the StarCraft character portraits during campaign mission briefings to save vertical resolution in the sprites. Only the 240p photos are a full frame shot since they blur together past that point with 480p. Screen refresh rate is 120Hz. These are huge photos so just links.
http://i.imgur.com/hvdlj8K.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jkceRnc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/T1SdkiK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/k5okdNr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/g6ZjGIv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ibtIST9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xhM1Okk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/s1w8hwX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rYPDRcK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IGVBHV2.jpg
Hawk269
Member
Well after testing most of the day with various things, I have determined that my Framemeister is actually not the issue to a certain extent. For whatever reason, the Framemeister and my Panasonic 4k do not agree with each other. The issue as stated above, when turning on the unit I have a tint/purple screen. The game image still appears, but it has a tint/purple overlay over it. Only fix was to turn off the TV for a few minutes or disconnect the HDMI cable from the TV and then reinsert it. This would at least fix the visual issue, but regardless of settings, I still could not get no audio.
What I did is moved the Framemeister and my Sega Master System that I was using as one of the test systems to the living room and used my Sony 4k and it worked perfectly, nice screen, audio no issues. I then took it upstairs and connected it to a Sony 1080p screen and same thing, no issues at all. Great picture with audio. In my living room I have the Sony 4k attached to a Denon receiver and in my game room I have a Panasonic 4k with a newer Denon receiver. For whatever reason, there is something within the HDMI ports on the TV or the Denon that is not passing audio with the Framemeister. I even tried connecting directly into the TV and it still had the tint/purple and no audio regardless of which system I had.
My only determination is that the Framemeister is having issues with the HDMI 2.0 ports on my Panasonic and Denon receiver, since the receiver is also HDMI 2.0 full speed. As mentioned going direct or going through the receiver resulted in the same issues with no audio. I spent the better part of 2 hours going through settings on both the TV and the Receiver trying different things, but no go. Still got the tint/purple screens and no audio.
I had a Sony 34" Widescreen CRT screen in my game room along with my Panasonic and although my old-school consoles looked good, the color and punch I got from the limited time I had the games on the 4k was really good. So decided to get a 50" Sony LED with a stand, which has less of a footprint than the 34" CRT and damn it looks great. Been playing Genesis, Sega Master System and Dreamcast and everything just looks fantastic. I am only able to use the Framemeister with standard Audio/Video and or S-Video due to waiting for a cable to allow me to use RGB, but still looks good. I have the Dreamcast going through a VGA box to a VGA>Component Scaler and connecting it via component and it looks great. On the Genesis, I have a Scart to Component adapter and games look great as well. I know they will look even better once I can go straight RGB into the Framemeister, but even with the Scart to Component adapter, there is a night and day difference versus standard audio/video.
I want to extend another thank you to all those that tried to help me trouble shoot. It was a really bizarre thing that was happening, but once I tested on other TV's, receivers and it worked flawlessly, I knew it had to do with the HDMI 2.0 ports or something within the way the Panasonic is wired that was causing the lack of audio and the tint/purple screen. I am just glad it is resolved and my little retro gaming nook that is on the opposite wall from my 4k gaming screen and current gen consoles/gaming rig looks good. I will post pics when I have everything hooked up.
Oh and if anyone has an extra scart cable that allows you hook up to the Framemeister, I am willing to purchase it. I am on vacation for the next 10 days or so and would love to play some RGB games, but with the UK retailer closed until the 18th, it will be a no go unless someone is willing to sell the cable.
Thanks again folks for the help offered, it is greatly appreciated.
What I did is moved the Framemeister and my Sega Master System that I was using as one of the test systems to the living room and used my Sony 4k and it worked perfectly, nice screen, audio no issues. I then took it upstairs and connected it to a Sony 1080p screen and same thing, no issues at all. Great picture with audio. In my living room I have the Sony 4k attached to a Denon receiver and in my game room I have a Panasonic 4k with a newer Denon receiver. For whatever reason, there is something within the HDMI ports on the TV or the Denon that is not passing audio with the Framemeister. I even tried connecting directly into the TV and it still had the tint/purple and no audio regardless of which system I had.
My only determination is that the Framemeister is having issues with the HDMI 2.0 ports on my Panasonic and Denon receiver, since the receiver is also HDMI 2.0 full speed. As mentioned going direct or going through the receiver resulted in the same issues with no audio. I spent the better part of 2 hours going through settings on both the TV and the Receiver trying different things, but no go. Still got the tint/purple screens and no audio.
I had a Sony 34" Widescreen CRT screen in my game room along with my Panasonic and although my old-school consoles looked good, the color and punch I got from the limited time I had the games on the 4k was really good. So decided to get a 50" Sony LED with a stand, which has less of a footprint than the 34" CRT and damn it looks great. Been playing Genesis, Sega Master System and Dreamcast and everything just looks fantastic. I am only able to use the Framemeister with standard Audio/Video and or S-Video due to waiting for a cable to allow me to use RGB, but still looks good. I have the Dreamcast going through a VGA box to a VGA>Component Scaler and connecting it via component and it looks great. On the Genesis, I have a Scart to Component adapter and games look great as well. I know they will look even better once I can go straight RGB into the Framemeister, but even with the Scart to Component adapter, there is a night and day difference versus standard audio/video.
I want to extend another thank you to all those that tried to help me trouble shoot. It was a really bizarre thing that was happening, but once I tested on other TV's, receivers and it worked flawlessly, I knew it had to do with the HDMI 2.0 ports or something within the way the Panasonic is wired that was causing the lack of audio and the tint/purple screen. I am just glad it is resolved and my little retro gaming nook that is on the opposite wall from my 4k gaming screen and current gen consoles/gaming rig looks good. I will post pics when I have everything hooked up.
Oh and if anyone has an extra scart cable that allows you hook up to the Framemeister, I am willing to purchase it. I am on vacation for the next 10 days or so and would love to play some RGB games, but with the UK retailer closed until the 18th, it will be a no go unless someone is willing to sell the cable.
Thanks again folks for the help offered, it is greatly appreciated.
Glad you were able to figure it out. Sounds like quite the research project. Sometimes I like doing stuff like that and other times it drives me insane.
If I may ask, what Scart to component adapter do you use? I'm considering several different options and that was one of them.
If I may ask, what Scart to component adapter do you use? I'm considering several different options and that was one of them.
What you could do is get a cheap soldering iron kit and mod the original JP21 cable that came with the Framemeister. It's a cool little project to practice and you don't have to worry about screwing up as you would have thrown it away either way.
NormalFish
Banned
New, less glowing -- but seemingly a bit rushed? -- review of the OSSC from Videogameperfection:
http://www.videogameperfection.com/2016/03/04/open-source-scan-converter-a-first-look/
The discussion in the shmups thread seems to indicate that perhaps he wasn't adjusting to fix sync drops and the like as Marqs was intending, but I could be misinterpreting.
Regardless, the first batch (for people on the waitlist) is currently being manufactured, and he anticipates waiting "months" for anyone not on that list. I'm thinking that's fine since it'll probably fix a few issues by the time it ships mass.
Also, PS2 performance continues to be amazing by all accounts, so I will likely bring one of these and my PS2 with me when I want to limit myself.
http://www.videogameperfection.com/2016/03/04/open-source-scan-converter-a-first-look/
The discussion in the shmups thread seems to indicate that perhaps he wasn't adjusting to fix sync drops and the like as Marqs was intending, but I could be misinterpreting.
Regardless, the first batch (for people on the waitlist) is currently being manufactured, and he anticipates waiting "months" for anyone not on that list. I'm thinking that's fine since it'll probably fix a few issues by the time it ships mass.
Also, PS2 performance continues to be amazing by all accounts, so I will likely bring one of these and my PS2 with me when I want to limit myself.
Hawk269
Member
Question for those with the framemeister...
The cable that you need that runs from the SCART cables into the XRGB Mini, I see that they make 2 different ones. One is a powered cable, the other is non-powered. I am reading about the reason for the powered is for the C-Sync. With the latest firmware is a powered one needed or should the non-powered one be fine?
I have been checking Ebay and today I got lucky and a seller has both cables in-stock for shipping. Not sure if I should get both or just one and want to make sure I order the correct one.
Thanks!
The cable that you need that runs from the SCART cables into the XRGB Mini, I see that they make 2 different ones. One is a powered cable, the other is non-powered. I am reading about the reason for the powered is for the C-Sync. With the latest firmware is a powered one needed or should the non-powered one be fine?
I have been checking Ebay and today I got lucky and a seller has both cables in-stock for shipping. Not sure if I should get both or just one and want to make sure I order the correct one.
Thanks!
Beer Monkey
Member
Having a bad weekend! JVC DT-V1710CG showed up from eBay seller DOA. It's a stand up seller and he is trying to make it right, but there's nothing but a black screen. No on-screen display, no "NO SYNC", no "CARD MISSING", no nothing except a degauss sound on startup and the input buttons lighting up when pressed. Ugh. Well, I knew the risks of mailing these old beasts.
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