talisayNon
Member
i just looked at the salaries for the ny red bull players..
cot damn, i make more than 2/3rds of them. :lol
soccer does not pay.
cot damn, i make more than 2/3rds of them. :lol
soccer does not pay.
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US GAF: Support your national soccer team
- Thread starter xbhaskarx
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NH Apache said:
The soccer/football thread used to be bigger than all the other sports threads, and no mod dared entered it. Then some dudes said some "racist" stuff, and a mod (Red_Scarlet I think) finally went through the thread, banned some troublemakers, and started imposing the forum rules on the thread. After this, everyone went to another .com to replace the football thread
The current thread is a sad shell of its former self
It's a little sad that in my topic about getting more into soccer, everyone suggested watching the Premier League. I get that it's the highest level of competition, but it seems like it becomes self-defeating for US soccer.
If the US is coming down from soccer fever, what SHOULD happen is that it should translate into higher cable ratings for MLS games, higher attendance for MLS games. Not even more EPL attention.
These two things = more money for the league = higher salary caps = better international players.
US soccer is on the tipping point, but it seems fans are content to never have the sport take off domestically.
Edit: To put it another way, it boils down to MONEY. With money, the MLS can pay players more, less homegrown players will go overseas, etc. And more interest in US soccer SHOULD translate into more money.
If the US is coming down from soccer fever, what SHOULD happen is that it should translate into higher cable ratings for MLS games, higher attendance for MLS games. Not even more EPL attention.
These two things = more money for the league = higher salary caps = better international players.
US soccer is on the tipping point, but it seems fans are content to never have the sport take off domestically.
Edit: To put it another way, it boils down to MONEY. With money, the MLS can pay players more, less homegrown players will go overseas, etc. And more interest in US soccer SHOULD translate into more money.
I love soccer, but it will take tons and tons and tons of marketing muscle for it to gain traction in the US. And the networks/advertisers don't really seem to want it badly, because of limited revenue/advertising potential. Therefore it's not popular.
I am happy the US got as far as they did. Good job and go USA.
I am happy the US got as far as they did. Good job and go USA.
talisayNon
Member
Here's an article on US clubs forming academies:
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/5219888/ce/us/future-us-soccer?cc=5901&ver=us
interesting stuff. Too bad Najar looks like he's playing for Honduras next cycle =/
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/5219888/ce/us/future-us-soccer?cc=5901&ver=us
interesting stuff. Too bad Najar looks like he's playing for Honduras next cycle =/
Wow, some people got banned. Good thing I was out getting drunk and not near a computer.
But, USA.. aw man... I'm so sad for them. I hope to god we can finally get rid of Bradley. All in all though, good job team; I'm still proud. They played their hearts out for most of the tournament and certainly gained some worldwide respect. I'm sure some club will now be willing to pay the ransom fee that the LA Galaxy holds him for.
But, USA.. aw man... I'm so sad for them. I hope to god we can finally get rid of Bradley. All in all though, good job team; I'm still proud. They played their hearts out for most of the tournament and certainly gained some worldwide respect. I'm sure some club will now be willing to pay the ransom fee that the LA Galaxy holds him for.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Just got back from my little vacation. Very sad to see the US out of the tournie. I got to watch the game, albeit delayed a couple hours. We put up a good fight, but bad personnel decisions really made it an uphill battle.
Whatever though--there's always 2014! I think this surge of interest in soccer should produce some good players in the next 5-10 years, so go USA!
Whatever though--there's always 2014! I think this surge of interest in soccer should produce some good players in the next 5-10 years, so go USA!
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
Why do people act like the latest football thread is terrible compared to the older ones? The only answer I see is that a bunch of members stopped posting in it.
captmcblack
Member
AstroLad said:
:lol
Is that even plausible? Like, could he actually blossom into a semi-decent player for the US someday soon?
GDJustin said:
But overseas will always be where the most money and therefor the very best competition is. It's not a good thing if America's best players stay exclusively over here just because they are making enough money to do so. Most countries have their own leagues and most of those leagues are really just feeders to the big boys where the real cash is at. That's how those countries develop their superstar talent; not by making believe that their own minor league is just as important as the Premiership and we should keep all our best talent here just so we can go see them in person.
Unfortunately, it's kind of an either or situation. American soccer fans seem to assume we are better than all those other little shitty countries and so we deserve to have our soccer league be more important, more influential, more successful and filled with prime talent, but that's really not the case. Either we want to have the best American talent sticking around the MLS or we want our very best players to encounter the best the rest of the world has to offer so they can challenge themselves, develop and grow by going overseas. Do we want a successful league or successful national team?
We need more players playing abroad. Home grown talent is all fine and dandy, but I'm a big believer that if we have more players playing in meaningful matches for mid-size/large clubs, National team will prosper.
Though of course, more money into the MLS is good. Personally, I don't watch MLS at all, but putting money into MLS can only improve the state of the sport in America, and also be good for the national team. It'll also attract foreign players into our league which will also improve the level of play for the MLS.
AS for our next coach if Bradley DOES go (and there's no guarantee Sunil won't just stick with him), we need to be careful who we choose. Would Leonardo Araujo be a good fit for the U.S. national team? I don't think he would be. We can't just stick any big name coach and expect our team to suddenly be a world power. Eriksson, who so far has proven to be a more successful England manager than Capello, utterly failed as manager for Mexico, and that should be an example for us.
Our next coach has to understand American culture and our soccer culture, understand our players and to understand our league. David Moyes would be a decent fit...or Carlos Queiroz (but you know, he already has the Portugal job).
Steve Nicol of the New England Revolution would be a great fit.
Of course, Klinsmann would be the ultimate fit, as he understands our culture, our soccer culture, our players and MLS, and he was successful with Germany applying American style training to the German team. He also helped shaped the youth level for Germany which is paying off dividends for them right now.
Of course, whether or not we can get him is another thing. As much as we can probably afford him, I'm willing to bet big name clubs can probably outbid us for his services. And there are some big name clubs out there looking for a new manager.
Though of course, more money into the MLS is good. Personally, I don't watch MLS at all, but putting money into MLS can only improve the state of the sport in America, and also be good for the national team. It'll also attract foreign players into our league which will also improve the level of play for the MLS.
AS for our next coach if Bradley DOES go (and there's no guarantee Sunil won't just stick with him), we need to be careful who we choose. Would Leonardo Araujo be a good fit for the U.S. national team? I don't think he would be. We can't just stick any big name coach and expect our team to suddenly be a world power. Eriksson, who so far has proven to be a more successful England manager than Capello, utterly failed as manager for Mexico, and that should be an example for us.
Our next coach has to understand American culture and our soccer culture, understand our players and to understand our league. David Moyes would be a decent fit...or Carlos Queiroz (but you know, he already has the Portugal job).
Steve Nicol of the New England Revolution would be a great fit.
Of course, Klinsmann would be the ultimate fit, as he understands our culture, our soccer culture, our players and MLS, and he was successful with Germany applying American style training to the German team. He also helped shaped the youth level for Germany which is paying off dividends for them right now.
Of course, whether or not we can get him is another thing. As much as we can probably afford him, I'm willing to bet big name clubs can probably outbid us for his services. And there are some big name clubs out there looking for a new manager.
I actually prefer for the MLS to take off in popularity in the near future as it will help grow domestic players mixed in with international players. in terms of money i'm pretty sure we could bring in lots of money that would pretty much rival the top leagues of europe... i mean just look at how much money MLB, NFL, NBA, NCAA, and NHL (especially the NHL considering how is the least watch sports of the major leagues here in the USA) all make with all the endorsements, promotions, attendance, etc... I just wish the MLS should start spending a little bit more every year by recruiting a few big stars who are in their prime or about to enter their prime.
kIdMuScLe said:
This won't happen. At least not overnight... or even in 20 years. The best players will always want to play for the (historically) best clubs. It will take a long time for (if) the MLS to become a top-tier league. Nowadays, geographically, much of the world's stars play in Europe. Even if they migrated to the USA over time, how would it affect the game (UEFA Champs League, etc)? It would take time and, ultimately, MONEY. Lots of it.
This is the reason why Klinsmann denied the job to coach the US team years ago. He wanted to entirely revamp the US youth system, taking the talent out of the country into more competitive leagues. Mr. Gulati does not (and will probably never) agree with that sentiment. It is a shame that the USSF is so ethnocentric... we need some global influence to consistently yield a decent threat in big tournaments. Until then, we'll always be the little engine that could (and didn't
) Don't get me wrong, I'd love for the MLS to become a big league... but I just don't see it happening until I'm at least middle-aged. Look at what Man City is trying to do with their unlimited funds; not only is the club vastly inflating the transfer market, it has yet to win anything. Only time will tell how influential money is as opposed to history, desire, and smart, shrewd managerial decisions.
jamesinclair
Banned
Clydefrog said:
Donovan.
Beckham.
Henry.
Blanco.
Angel.
All current players in MLS.
Clydefrog said:This won't happen. At least not overnight... or even in 20 years. The best players will always want to play for the (historically) best clubs. It will take a long time for (if) the MLS to become a top-tier league. Nowadays, geographically, much of the world's stars play in Europe. Even if they migrated to the USA over time, how would it affect the game (UEFA Champs League, etc)? It would take time and, ultimately, MONEY. Lots of it.
This is the reason why Klinsmann denied the job to coach the US team years ago. He wanted to entirely revamp the US youth system, taking the talent out of the country into more competitive leagues. Mr. Gulati does not (and will probably never) agree with that sentiment. It is a shame that the USSF is so ethnocentric... we need some global influence to consistently yield a decent threat in big tournaments. Until then, we'll always be the little engine that could (and didn't
Don't get me wrong, I'd love for the MLS to become a big league... but I just don't see it happening until I'm at least middle-aged. Look at what Man City is trying to do with their unlimited funds; not only is the club vastly inflating the transfer market, it has yet to win anything. Only time will tell how influential money is as opposed to history, desire, and smart, shrewd managerial decisions.
i know and that's what i hate about the US program... They think that the MLS is a top-notch league that is equal to those of europe when it fact is not. I had a few teammates a few years back who signed on with MLS clubs with their sole intention to promote themselves and then sign with the mexican league clubs or lesser known european clubs. Is pretty disheartening to see players use the MLS as a springboard to promote themselves to other clubs. If only each owner decides to spend some money on 1 or 2 mega star or semi-star MLS would be a much better league than it is right now. that's all im asking for. =/
Is it because Gulati is really invested in the MLS? Has to be right, I mean as far as talent is concerned look where most of the Brazilians or Argentinians play professionally, choice seems obvious.Clydefrog said:This is the reason why Klinsmann denied the job to coach the US team years ago. He wanted to entirely revamp the US youth system, taking the talent out of the country into more competitive leagues. Mr. Gulati does not (and will probably never) agree with that sentiment. It is a shame that the USSF is so ethnocentric... we need some global influence to consistently yield a decent threat in big tournaments. Until then, we'll always be the little engine that could (and didn't
Clydefrog said:This is the reason why Klinsmann denied the job to coach the US team years ago. He wanted to entirely revamp the US youth system, taking the talent out of the country into more competitive leagues. Mr. Gulati does not (and will probably never) agree with that sentiment. It is a shame that the USSF is so ethnocentric... we need some global influence to consistently yield a decent threat in big tournaments. Until then, we'll always be the little engine that could (and didn't
I thought Klinsmann didn't take the job because it was clear that he couldn't take the A-team to both Gold Cup AND Copa America...there was an AP Article that talked about that right before the World Cup began. And I don't think the USSF is ethnocentric, at least not anymore than any other FA around the world. The Italians are already complaining, and the English have already complained, but will be complaining louder that there aren't enough Italians/Englishman in their respective leagues.
For the MLS, I also kind of see the problem of having all the best American players play abroad. On one hand, it'd be good for the USMNT, but it wouldn't be good business for the MLS. It's a tough balancing act.
kIdMuScLe said:
I don't think the USSF thinks MLS is equal to those of Europe. Comments may be made about how they don't think that American players need to necessarily move abroad to excel for the national team, but that's not really the same as thinking the MLS is a top tier league. And using the MLS as a springboard for bigger teams, that will always happen with leagues that aren't EPL/La Liga/Serie A/maybe Bundesliga.
jamesinclair
Banned
Let me guess, you folks think the best league in the world is the premiere league, and the best players in the world play there right?
Makes sense. After all, that' s what the advertisements tell you. Thats what ESPN tell you.
Lets take a look at the teams still in the cup
Each team has 23 players.
(Nation) ( Number of players in Premiere league)
Uruguay - 0
Germany - 0
Ghana - 4
Argentina - 4
Netherlands - 5
Japan - 0
Paraguay - 2
Slovakia - 3
Brazil - 1
Portugal - 3
Spain - 3
Chile - 1
Players in PL: 26
Compare with....
Players in Bundesliga: 46
Players in Italy: 36
I'd prefer to have a solid league like the Bundesliga, packed to the brims with quality players, even though many are unknown outside of the country,, then the english league, which is all sizzle, but no steak.
Makes sense. After all, that' s what the advertisements tell you. Thats what ESPN tell you.
Lets take a look at the teams still in the cup
Each team has 23 players.
(Nation) ( Number of players in Premiere league)
Uruguay - 0
Germany - 0
Ghana - 4
Argentina - 4
Netherlands - 5
Japan - 0
Paraguay - 2
Slovakia - 3
Brazil - 1
Portugal - 3
Spain - 3
Chile - 1
Players in PL: 26
Compare with....
Players in Bundesliga: 46
Players in Italy: 36
I'd prefer to have a solid league like the Bundesliga, packed to the brims with quality players, even though many are unknown outside of the country,, then the english league, which is all sizzle, but no steak.
Gamecocks625
Member
AstroLad said:
never forget
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYFfq9tecHk
such a sweet move.
If the dude would grow, he'd actually be a decent choice up top.
NoRéN said:
captmcblack
Member
I am definitely going to do my best to follow world soccer now. I don't have a team, and I still don't quite understand the way the different leagues and tournaments in Europe work, but I will learn.
I already follow MLS in America and love it (of course, since I'm a New Yorker I am also a Red Bulls fan), so I've got that there already. I want so badly to see the talent and still increase in MLS, as well as the coverage. It would be awesome to see MLS games getting carried every week on like, NBC or ABC or something, and advertised/pushed like it was a big deal - not just on non-basic cable hidden away somewhere alongside Hercules reruns.
I already follow MLS in America and love it (of course, since I'm a New Yorker I am also a Red Bulls fan), so I've got that there already. I want so badly to see the talent and still increase in MLS, as well as the coverage. It would be awesome to see MLS games getting carried every week on like, NBC or ABC or something, and advertised/pushed like it was a big deal - not just on non-basic cable hidden away somewhere alongside Hercules reruns.
negreenfield
Member
I haven't had a chance to get on here since our loss to Ghana and since it's been so long I won't really bring up too much of it.
It seems to me that we are close but are lacking in a lot of key areas (I know a lot of this has probably been covered but I just haven't had a chance to read through the thread all the way). Strikers is obvious, no finishers, too much scoring from midfielders, weak defense, etc.
But to me the most glaring weakness and difference from us to other countries is first touches. We are so god-awful or at least some of the players are awful at this *cough* Jozy *cough*. It really ruins the flow of our play and hinders opportunities. Watching a team like Brazil (yes, I know they are possibly the best at this) and then watching us just shows how far we need to go to get even close to the upper teams.
Anyway, wish I could comment more and discuss more but damn this working for a living.
It seems to me that we are close but are lacking in a lot of key areas (I know a lot of this has probably been covered but I just haven't had a chance to read through the thread all the way). Strikers is obvious, no finishers, too much scoring from midfielders, weak defense, etc.
But to me the most glaring weakness and difference from us to other countries is first touches. We are so god-awful or at least some of the players are awful at this *cough* Jozy *cough*. It really ruins the flow of our play and hinders opportunities. Watching a team like Brazil (yes, I know they are possibly the best at this) and then watching us just shows how far we need to go to get even close to the upper teams.
Anyway, wish I could comment more and discuss more but damn this working for a living.
TheLastCandle
Member
The World Cup definitely got me interested. I was actually just talking to my friends about this during a party this weekend. I love how the game keeps moving, and the athleticism is something I never noticed until now. Great, great stuff. There are things about it that annoy me (the diving, no replay) that will keep it from being number one in my book, but hell... I watched an MLS game yesterday from start to finish, so clearly I'm more interested now than ever before.
I'm trying to convince my wife to go to a Philadelphia Union game with me soon, but she really isn't into sitting outside in sweltering heat. We'll see.
I'm trying to convince my wife to go to a Philadelphia Union game with me soon, but she really isn't into sitting outside in sweltering heat. We'll see.
talisayNon
Member
After reading through the salary structure for MLS, I can't see how the MLS couldn't attract world talent and increase the overall level of play.
I hope teams with money - NY Redbulls for one - take advantage of the luxury tax and lure some more DPs over here.
I think bringing over Thiery Henry is a good start; a better one would be luring a young promising player to play in the MLS. Give Beckham money to someone that actually deserves it.
I hope teams with money - NY Redbulls for one - take advantage of the luxury tax and lure some more DPs over here.
I think bringing over Thiery Henry is a good start; a better one would be luring a young promising player to play in the MLS. Give Beckham money to someone that actually deserves it.
345triangle
Member
jamesinclair said:
that is bizarre logic, without getting into the fact that every single member of the england squad plays in the premier league unless i'm having a brain freeze (taking the total to 49 (and david james doesn't count)). there are a ton of players from african or asian countries playing in other european leagues who probably wouldn't make it in the premiership.
the simple fact is that the premier league is the most competitive league in the world, and the simple opinion that most people would agree with is that it's the most entertaining to watch. i think the average quality is arguably higher in la liga, but it doesn't come close in terms of excitement.
to any american wanting to keep up with the game, i wouldn't recommend anything else unless you live near an MLS team you can actually get to watch live. i mean, the J-league isn't exactly great, but i still follow it because i can see CEREZO OSAKA (best team in the universe) pretty often.
jamesinclair
Banned
345triangle said:
And what exactly did you not understand about "teams still in the cup"?
Yesterday 23 PL players went up against 23 bundesliga players. They were destroyed.
Fox318 said:
A weekly prime time game isnt good enough for you?
faridmon said:So USA-GAF, how many of you are intrested in the sport now and will start follow the other leagu through out the season? Hopefull many of you since we need to build a long lost comunity of the Football Thread.
And Donovan is awsome, hopefully he comes back to Everton
I am definitely...
I am not sure really which team i would like to follow, however... I wish there were some Premier League games (or any other European league) that I could watch without having to pay for extra channels. Same for MLS I guess.
345triangle
Member
jamesinclair said:
i understood it fine, but if your post was really meant to discount the fact that the premier league has inarguably world class players like wayne rooney that happen to play for an incompetent national team then it was a crazy post. japan and uruguay's lack of representation in the league is seriously meant to be relevant here?
anyway, that was the part of my post you were supposed to mostly ignore. i did say "without getting into..."!
come on, the quality of the premier league is not a debatable point. the effect it has on the development of english players certainly is, however, which is why the national team can't come close - england simply doesn't run its football association in the same way that countries like germany or spain (or, uh, italy) do. for better and for worse.
shoplifter
Member
faridmon said:
Not enough money to be made in it. In a lot of ways it's a chicken/egg type of problem. The crowds aren't there to justify the additional expense, so the owners don't invest more.
Everyone is absolutely right that for at least the next 15-20 years MLS will be nothing more than a feeder league. We just don't (we're improving though) have the infrastructure in place to create the kinds of players that we would need to have it be a top class domestic league. The MLS owners were smart when they decided to not overspend and kill the league like what happened with the NASL, being content to have small incremental growth.
If we had a league full of sugar daddy owners that didn't care about breaking even (let alone making a profit), I could get on board with the free spending model. I'm still not sure that the audience would be there.
StriKeVillain
Banned
It's good to see the World Cup sparking interest in the sport for others.
For me: I'm an avid viewer of La Liga every weekend and support my local team (Philadelphia Union). I catch a little bit of EPL and Bundesliga but I'll always be drawn to the big stage in Spain.
For me: I'm an avid viewer of La Liga every weekend and support my local team (Philadelphia Union). I catch a little bit of EPL and Bundesliga but I'll always be drawn to the big stage in Spain.
La Liga is awsome, last season was dissapointing though because Athletico Madrid, Villarial, Seville all under performed :/striKeVillain! said:It's good to see the World Cup sparking interest in the sport for others.
For me: I'm an avid viewer of La Liga every weekend and support my local team (Philadelphia Union). I catch a little bit of EPL and Bundesliga but I'll always be drawn to the big stage in Spain.
There are a lot of problems. For starters the league needs to expand into new markets (there isn't even a team in the southeast where soccer is more popular than hockey) in order to get more viewship which will allow for more games being broadcast yet they can't because there isn't enough money or talent for major expansion.
shoplifter
Member
jjasper said:
This. Too much expansion w/o the corresponding homegrown talent (or a change allowing more import players and money involved in purchasing them) will cripple the talent level in the league. There are already cries of 'too much expansion' from lots of folks who follow MLS.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
jamesinclair said:
How often have Bundesliga teams made it to the Semi-Final/Final of the Champions League in the last 5 years?
ZZMitch said:
As long as it's not Manchester United, you're making the right choice. ;-) Tim Howard plays for Everton, and Landon may be going back there, so it's a great choice. Dempsey plays for Fulham. Arsenal is another fun team to watch.
As far as extra channels, well, there are "other ways" to see the games, but I don't think I can talk about that on here?
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