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Valkyria Chronicles |OT| Beautiful art meets genre-redefining gameplay

Hcoregamer00

The 'H' stands for hentai.
SecretBonusPoint said:
As expected fansubs have dried up for the Valkyria anime because a lot of fansubbers are just glory seeking assholes who are done with a series because theyve blasted out a few quick speed subs and beaten their peers maybe in quality, ready to jump onto the next new series and repeat the cycle.

No shocker there, considering that many do it for the glory and the hits rather than for the love of the series. It is a cycle that continues over and over again.

Thank god gaming companies are not like that, sure they stop releasing series when sales are crap, but they move forward in most instances knowing that there is a dedicated base willing to buy stuff. The best example of this is the Phoenix Wright/Ace Attorney fans in the states.

Volcynika said:

Damn right they should.

Now show us more love and release the official art book in English, also get Sega of Japan to make us Valkyria Chronicles 2 or Zero for the PS3 or PSP
 

gokieks

Member
SecretBonusPoint said:
As expected fansubs have dried up for the Valkyria anime because a lot of fansubbers are just glory seeking assholes who are done with a series because theyve blasted out a few quick speed subs and beaten their peers maybe in quality, ready to jump onto the next new series and repeat the cycle.

Annoying, as I was really getting into it. Hopefully someone that actually isn't an asshole rises to the challenge to continue it.

Glad to see the game experienced a massive sales surge due to all the promotion. Who would have thought getting word out about your game in a quieter period of releases with a barrage of advertising would result in more sales. Truly, its as if thats what they fucking should have done in the first place.

To be fair, there's also the issue of the anime simply not being very good. The only real reason I'm watching it is because it's VC - if I hadn't already played the game and fell in love with it, I'd certainly have stopped by now.
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Hcoregamer00 said:
Now show us more love and release the official art book in English, also get Sega of Japan to make us Valkyria Chronicles 2 or Zero for the PS3 or PSP

This. If I don't hear anything by TGS Sega's gonna have some 'splanin' to do...
 

Shadow780

Member
gokieks said:
To be fair, there's also the issue of the anime simply not being very good. The only real reason I'm watching it is because it's VC - if I hadn't already played the game and fell in love with it, I'd certainly have stopped by now.

I think it's still worth watching, the quality is mediocre but I think they've expanded the world of Europa a bit more than the game. It's interesting they've added
the power struggle of royal family of the Empire
, which I don't recall from playing the game.
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
SecretBonusPoint said:
As expected fansubs have dried up for the Valkyria anime because a lot of fansubbers are just glory seeking assholes who are done with a series because theyve blasted out a few quick speed subs and beaten their peers maybe in quality, ready to jump onto the next new series and repeat the cycle.

Annoying, as I was really getting into it. Hopefully someone that actually isn't an asshole rises to the challenge to continue it.

Glad to see the game experienced a massive sales surge due to all the promotion. Who would have thought getting word out about your game in a quieter period of releases with a barrage of advertising would result in more sales. Truly, its as if thats what they fucking should have done in the first place.

A shameless plug, I know, but my group Conclave along with AnimeYuki are continuing the project. 8 should be out tonight in fact... we just had some staffing issues with people getting busy with work/school and whatnot.
 
Kagari said:
A shameless plug, I know, but my group Conclave along with AnimeYuki are continuing the project. 8 should be out tonight in fact... we just had some staffing issues with people getting busy with work/school and whatnot.

Good to know! Hope you stay the course! I'm already up to date with 8, so just waiting for 9 onwards really. Especially since 9 seems to be an Empire centered episode, which definitely means its expanding on stuff not in the game.
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
SecretBonusPoint said:
Good to know! Hope you stay the course! I'm already up to date with 8, so just waiting for 9 onwards really. Especially since 9 seems to be an Empire centered episode, which definitely means its expanding on stuff not in the game.

Yes, yes it is.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Still no restock in any Canadian stores... there was no "sales revival" here. Are copies still floating around in the US? How much?
 

MC Safety

Member
I really like the game, and am willing to cede to the thread starter the "beautiful art" portion of the hyperbolic title.

"Genre-redefining," however, is probably a stretch. This type of game has been done by Worms in both 2D and 3D and other titles such as Hogs of War, etc., and it's pretty obvious that Chronicles does nothing those other games don't do...
 

gokieks

Member
MC Safety said:
"Genre-redefining," however, is probably a stretch. This type of game has been done by Worms in both 2D and 3D and other titles such as Hogs of War, etc., and it's pretty obvious that Chronicles does nothing those other games don't do...

First off, Worms 3D was an abomination and a disgrace to the series.

Second... are you seriously comparing the gameplay in VC to Worms? Beyond the fact that both are turn-based and involve shooting weapons, what exactly are the similarities?

VC is genre-defining. I just don't think you quite see what the genre is (that would be Tactical RPGs - see FFT, Disgaea, Tactics Ogre, etc).
 

MC Safety

Member
gokieks said:
First off, Worms 3D was an abomination and a disgrace to the series.

Second... are you seriously comparing the gameplay in VC to Worms? Beyond the fact that both are turn-based and involve shooting weapons, what exactly are the similarities?

VC is genre-defining. I just don't think you quite see what the genre is (that would be Tactical RPGs - see FFT, Disgaea, Tactics Ogre, etc).

I am seriously comparing the gameplay in Valkyria Chronicles to that of Worms, Ring of Red, and Hogs of War, etc. As they use the same basic formula and incorporate almost wholly the exact same elements of gameplay, yes, I feel safe in making the comparison.

I'd ask you to enlighten me as to how these games are different, but I have no desire to get into a war of semantics over a hyperbolic thread title on a video game message board. Besides, I have a sneaking suspicion you are, ah, one of those guys ... you know, the ones who are really, really invested in a game or console, and are dead-set on defending it against even a perceived slight.

I apologize if this is not the case.
 

Durante

Member
MC Safety said:
"Genre-redefining," however, is probably a stretch. This type of game has been done by Worms in both 2D and 3D and other titles such as Hogs of War, etc., and it's pretty obvious that Chronicles does nothing those other games don't do...
It redefines the SRPG genre, not the strategy genre.
 

Diablos

Member
radiantdreamer said:
It was fun too!

Did you know the ending for it is different depending on what rank you got? Try them all! They're all quite amusing.
I did not. I think I got a B.

To be honest, I couldn't stand the interaction between all the characters in this DLC. It was pretty bad :lol
 

CO_Andy

Member
There's nothing "genre-redefining" about VC other than perhaps the graphics.

I haven't played any of those games MC Safety listed, but chalk up Breath of Fire V as another turn-based strategy title that's like Valkyria.
 

MC Safety

Member
Durante said:
It redefines the SRPG genre, not the strategy genre.


All right. Assuming this is the case, how does Valkyria Chronicles redefine the strategy role-playing genre?

I'd argue that just about all role-playing games, de facto, rely heavily on strategy. So your ground may be shaky there, too.
 

Tonza

Member
All right, I got the game yesterday and been playing some.
Im now at the chapter 7 battle and it's kicking my ass.

The big tank's machine guns slaughter my lancer dudes and my tank and lancers can't hit anything... and keeping my tank away from the front and end cannons is really hard when you don't know where the tank is going next.
Is it necessary to grind skirmishes in this game?
 

gokieks

Member
MC Safety said:
I am seriously comparing the gameplay in Valkyria Chronicles to that of Worms, Ring of Red, and Hogs of War, etc. As they use the same basic formula and incorporate almost wholly the exact same elements of gameplay, yes, I feel safe in making the comparison.

Ring of Red I can see (and even somewhat agree with, though it's real-time combat is quite a bit more limited than VC's), but Worms? If by "same basic formula" and "same elements of gameplay" you mean "moving a character" and "shooting at things", then sure. And let's go compare Halo and Gears of War to Worms too while we're at it.

Worms has absolutely no RPG elements to it at all beyond the standard "you're playing the role of ____" that's in basically every single video game. VC, while a lot lighter on that aspect than most of the traditional tactical RPGs, do still have character progression, unlocking of abilities, etc.

MC Safety said:
I'd ask you to enlighten me as to how these games are different, but I have no desire to get into a war of semantics over a hyperbolic thread title on a video game message board. Besides, I have a sneaking suspicion you are, ah, one of those guys ... you know, the ones who are really, really invested in a game or console, and are dead-set on defending it against even a perceived slight.

I own every single current generation home and handheld console, and also almost every single home console dating back to the NES (except the Genesis and original Xbox). So no, I'm not at all "invested" in any particular console. As for being invested in a particular game - if a game is good, I'll state so. I haven't gone into thread on other games proclaiming how those are inferior to VC, so what exactly gave you the impression that I would be "one of those guys", beyond the simple need for an ad hominem attack?

MC Safety said:
All right. Assuming this is the case, how does Valkyria Chronicles redefine the strategy role-playing genre?

I'd argue that just about all role-playing games, de facto, rely heavily on strategy. So your ground may be shaky there, too.

Now you're the one arguing semantics. Obviously, the term "role playing game" has never been one for a clearly defined genre the way "first person shooter" is. But the "tactical RPG" (or "strategy RPG", as it's more well known as in NA), is pretty much commonly accepted to be the genre (or sub-genre, if you want) that's defined by the gameplay style as shown in games like the Tactics Ogre, Final Fantasy Tactics, Disgaea, Front Mission, Fire Emblem, etc. series. And yes, compared to them, Valkyria Chronicles *is* vastly different, and it's gameplay has redefined that (admittedly very narrow and focused) genre.
 

MC Safety

Member
We can stop with the nonsense now. Tell me exactly how Valkyria Chronicles redefines whatever genre it exists in. If it's simply in terms of pairing turn-based strategy with story and role-playing elements, I have to tell you it's been done before.

And I merely thought you might have an axe to grind -- a big one -- because you took exception to someone questioning a clearly overwrought thread title on a video game message board.


gokieks said:
Ring of Red I can see (and even somewhat agree with, though it's real-time combat is quite a bit more limited than VC's), but Worms? If by "same basic formula" and "same elements of gameplay" you mean "moving a character" and "shooting at things", then sure. And let's go compare Halo and Gears of War to Worms too while we're at it.

Worms has absolutely no RPG elements to it at all beyond the standard "you're playing the role of ____" that's in basically every single video game. VC, while a lot lighter on that aspect than most of the traditional tactical RPGs, do still have character progression, unlocking of abilities, etc.



I own every single current generation home and handheld console, and also almost every single home console dating back to the NES (except the Genesis and original Xbox). So no, I'm not at all "invested" in any particular console. As for being invested in a particular game - if a game is good, I'll state so. I haven't gone into thread on other games proclaiming how those are inferior to VC, so what exactly gave you the impression that I would be "one of those guys", beyond the simple need for an ad hominem attack?

Now you're the one arguing semantics. Obviously, the term "role playing game" has never been one for a clearly defined genre the way "first person shooter" is. But the "tactical RPG" (or "strategy RPG", as it's more well known as in NA), is pretty much commonly accepted to be the genre (or sub-genre, if you want) that's defined by the gameplay style as shown in games like the Tactics Ogre, Final Fantasy Tactics, Disgaea, Front Mission, Fire Emblem, etc. series. And yes, compared to them, Valkyria Chronicles *is* vastly different, and it's gameplay has redefined that (admittedly very narrow and focused) genre.
 

Durante

Member
CO_Andy said:
I haven't played any of those games MC Safety listed, but chalk up Breath of Fire V as another turn-based strategy title that's like Valkyria.
BoF:DQ is one of the best games of last generation, but it's only very superficially like VC. It's a JRPG with strategic battles, not a strategy game with the continuous leveling/equipment system of an RPG. Perhaps even more importantly, the actual combat in BoF is completely turn-based, and thus very unlike VC.

MC Safety said:
We can stop with the nonsense now. Tell me exactly how Valkyria Chronicles redefines whatever genre it exists in.
Gokieks already did, but you seem to prefer to ignore that and embark on some kind of investigation into his alleged motives.

For your benefit I'll spell it out in more detail: VC exists in the console SRPG genre, as defined by games such as FFT, Tactics Ogre, or N1's numerous games. VC redefines this genre by incorporating real-time third person shooter-like elements. Did that clear things up for you?
 

Lain

Member
MC Safety said:
We can stop with the nonsense now. Tell me exactly how Valkyria Chronicles redefines whatever genre it exists in. If it's simply in terms of pairing turn-based strategy with story and role-playing elements, I have to tell you it's been done before.

If you've played SRPG games, then it would be pretty obvious what most people see as genre-redefining gameplay in this game.
VC doesn't play like those other games, it has a mix of realtime and turn based gameplay along with some third/first person shooter elements to it. Pretty redefining in my eyes, or at least evolving and/or refreshing the genre.
Title of the thread might be a little hyperbolic, but it is still mostly true.
 

Swaain

Member
As much as I loved the game, it would definitely seem to me that the play / strategy mechanics of Valkyria Chronicles are exactly the same as those of Hogs of War. I could draw up a list of features, but that would be pointless - just you people look it up on youtube, watch a gameplay video or two, you'll see what I mean, it's obvious.
Anyway - Hogs of War was a very interesting PSX-era Infogrames release, and it's not because we don't talk about it much that VC's developers may not have know about this title. "Hogs" was the innovator; VC merely refines the mechanics and adds an extra layer of customizability.

This is, by the way, why I believe the parallel with an existing "turn-based / real-time" hybrid tactics game (and other such games if they exist) is much more apt than the comparison with purely turnbased tactical rpgs like Breath of Fire V and Ring of Red.

With regards to innovation, I'd say that, mutatis mutandis, Valkyria Chronicles is as innovative as Gears of War. Nobody in his right mind would say that Gears was not a ground-breaking title (even I admit that, and I hate the game most of the time); it's core play mechanic, however, was lifted straight out of a little-known (and at the time underappreciated) PS2/Xbox shooter called Kill.Switch.

On a side note :

Of course, and I would like to stress the fact that I don't meant his as an offense to anyone, IMO this highlights an important flaw in videogame "culture" as a whole (and especially with the gaming press): everyone is pretty excitable, as the focus is always on the future. If game enthusiasts as a a group were more knowledgeable, or more evenhanded in their assessment of past games and their merits, if they had better insights in the evolution of genre conventions & play mechanics, there would be less hyperbole in forum threads, and the quality of discussions would improve immeasurably.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Swaain said:
Of course, and I would like to stress the fact that I don't meant his as an offense to anyone, IMO this highlights an important flaw in videogame "culture" as a whole (and especially with the gaming press): everyone is pretty excitable, as the focus is always on the future. If game enthusiasts as a a group were more knowledgeable, or more evenhanded in their assessment of past games and their merits, if they had better insights in the evolution of genre conventions & play mechanics, there would be less hyperbole in forum threads, and the quality of discussions would improve immeasurably.

Translation: I wish everyone knew as much as me.
 

Tenkei

Member
Swaain said:
With regards to innovation, I'd say that, mutatis mutandis, Valkyria Chronicles is as innovative as Gears of War. Nobody in his right mind would say that Gears was not a ground-breaking title (even I admit that, and I hate the game most of the time); it's core play mechanic, however, was lifted straight out of a little-known (and at the time underappreciated) PS2/Xbox shooter called Kill.Switch.
It's difficult to find a game that hasn't been spliced with the genes of older games. One of the Gears programmers mentioned in an interview that part of their inspiration came from WinBack, that N64 game where Kill.Switch lifted its core mechanic. =P

Who cares who did what first? It's not about where the gameplay ideas come from, it's how they're implemented. I couldn't care less if VC's combat system cannot be considered genre-redefining; it's fun to play, and that's all that really matters.
 

Darkpen

Banned
MC Safety said:
All right. Assuming this is the case, how does Valkyria Chronicles redefine the strategy role-playing genre?

I'd argue that just about all role-playing games, de facto, rely heavily on strategy. So your ground may be shaky there, too.
I'd cite wikipedia's definition on what defines the Strategy RPG genre, but I'm posting from a PS3, so I won't. The problem with how you're using the word "strategy" is that you're referring to the general concept of strategy. It'd be more accurate to say that your actions in these SRPGs is more about tactical maneuvering than about employing any particularly deep strategy. I remember years back when my dad watched me play Final Fantasy Tactics, and told me its basically a game of gangsters ganging up on one another, which is more or less true in fashion with how the game is played. So, by your logic, do we suddenly change the genre's name to "Turn-based Beat-em-up?" The etymology behind how "RPG" has been redefined is another discussion as well.
 

ianp622

Member
The closest thing I've played to Valkyria Chronicles is X-Com. I've never played the other games you guys are mentioning.

Do they include aspects such as:

1. Cover
2. Attacks of opportunity during movement
3. Heavy weapons and tanks
4. Bonus for attacking opponent from behind (not being able to react in VC)
5. Hiding units that are outside LOS of your units
6. Concealment through grass or smoke
7. High ground advantage for some weapons (grenades, LOS in VC)

?

I'm not trying to make a point here, I'm actually curious to know whether games like Worms and Ring of Red have these aspects. These are what really make VC a tactical game, which I see as different from a "strategy" game.

To me, strategy games usually don't place as much emphasis on position and the play between offense and defense, but rather focus on managing armies and resources.

Tactical games on the other hand focus on making use of the units you already have, being careful by using cover, finding holes in the enemies' defense, and finding the best place to attack. Positional advantage (chokepoints, elevation, cover) plays a bigger role in a tactical game.

X-Com and Valkyria Chronicles are examples of a tactical games, Starcraft and Command & Conquer are examples of strategy games (according to my definition).
 

patsu

Member
Valkyria Chronicles is special for me because:

* It doesn't need grinding at all. They achieved this by giving me abundant (and deep enough) options and dimensions to tackle the situation. I was able to kill tough enemies by buying orders from the old man, equiped & trained my forces, plus also use the friendship between different characters. Because I didn't grind nor play any side missions, sometimes I barely survived or triumphed the enemies. It was a good feeling :)

* I also love the way the levels vary and pan out. The bosses seem impossible at times. Very often, they threw surprises at me after I was already committed to my strategy. As a result, I had to improvise along the way. I can also see my soldiers improve over time (especially the snipers, who evolved from &*%&*$( useless to uber-deadly -- I <3 it !).

* Despite a few cliches, I liked the many twists in the story in general. Was a little surprised at some of the themes and dialogs regarding racism.

There may be other games with similar mechanics, but it's the subtety and depth that made VC stood out. I completed the game with level 10 and 11 soldiers, lost 2 permanently. I had no choice. Tried all I could to save them, but I just couldn't get to them in time 8...^(
 

ianp622

Member
New Valkyria Chronicles DLC coming?

http://www.ps3center.net/news/3235/new-dlc-coming-to-valkyria-chronicles/

It seems like the little engine that could isn't done chugging yet! New DLC has been announced for Valkyria Chronicles in the latest issue of Famitsu. Details are still sketchy, but the DLC is called 'Battle Challenge'! Is an online competitive multiplayer coming to the game? Seems likely!

We've contacted Sega's US branch for confirmation of a US release as well.
 

Darkpen

Banned
Battle Challenge?

Hrmmmm.

Either its a gauntlet-type mode, or online MP. Balance would become an issue, unless each unit was limited to base weapon type that isn't royal or special in any way.

Personally, I just want more side-story chapters. Edy's was the best in its use of voice talents :)

On a side note, man, people really did drop subbing VC, though I'm glad some people are still doing it. The episode with Karl and Selvaria was interesting, though I really do prefer "Johan" instead.

Valkyria Chronicles - New DLC announced - "Edie (secondary) squad's challenge"!
YEEEEAAAAAHHHH
 
I put about 10 hrs into VC and I'm just not enjoying it.. I was hoping it would help my RPG fix, but ehh.. not my cup of tea. I'm a big fan of SRPGs and what not. *shrugs*

It shall remain in permenant backlog. Never to see the light of day.
 

Darkpen

Banned
Assembly Required said:
I put about 10 hrs into VC and I'm just not enjoying it.. I was hoping it would help my RPG fix, but ehh.. not my cup of tea. I'm a big fan of SRPGs and what not. *shrugs*

It shall remain in permenant backlog. Never to see the light of day.
yeah, if you're 10 hours in, and its neither charmed you or you don't like strategy RPGs, its not for you. Most of GAF that loves VC loves it for the charming story and visuals if they don't like the SRPG aspect of it.
 

patsu

Member
Assembly Required said:
I put about 10 hrs into VC and I'm just not enjoying it.. I was hoping it would help my RPG fix, but ehh.. not my cup of tea. I'm a big fan of SRPGs and what not. *shrugs*

It shall remain in permenant backlog. Never to see the light of day.

Which Chapter are you in now ?
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Probably the only thing that will sell you on the game is that you have real time third person control of your units. That's the biggest difference this game has from other SRPGs.
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Micromegas said:
I like S-RPGs, but I'm put-off by the alt-ww2 setting. Anybody sell me on this, or am I a lost cause?

It's more of an alt-WWI setting for starters, and the world and culture is very well written and thought out. Plus it quickly develops into much more than a plain vanilla fictionalized European history. Would be big spoilers but there are fantasy elements (that are well done) and lots of great political intrigue.

After the first couple of chapters you forget it's anything like a typical world war I or II setting and it becomes its own thing.
 
Kaijima said:
It's more of an alt-WWI setting for starters, and the world and culture is very well written and thought out. Plus it quickly develops into much more than a plain vanilla fictionalized European history. Would be big spoilers but there are fantasy elements (that are well done) and lots of great political intrigue.

After the first couple of chapters you forget it's anything like a typical world war I or II setting and it becomes its own thing.

DONE!

Christ that was easy. Picking it up tomorrow.

You're good.
 
patsu said:
Which Chapter are you in now ?

Chp. 7

I re-played a the earlier battles I unlocked for training to gather my XP and money for upgrades. Um, I guess for me there isn't much I find appealing about this game. The visuals are nice, I dig the art direction. Don't really care for the setting or story/plot. I find the characters to be... nothing special. If it hasn't grabbed my attention yet, then going any further is just a lost cause.

The battle mechanics are cool. Takes a somewhat unique approach. And as much as I like it, its not enough. And like stated earlier...I love real time strategy, RPGs, SRPGs, etc. (Front Mission 3 being one of my all time favorites.. not the greatest, but I love it)

Eh, its just not for me. Simple as that.
 

Darkpen

Banned
Assembly Required said:
Chp. 7

I re-played a the earlier battles I unlocked for training to gather my XP and money for upgrades. Um, I guess for me there isn't much I find appealing about this game. The visuals are nice, I dig the art direction. Don't really care for the setting or story/plot. I find the characters to be... nothing special. If it hasn't grabbed my attention yet, then going any further is just a lost cause.

The battle mechanics are cool. Takes a somewhat unique approach. And as much as I like it, its not enough. And like stated earlier...I love real time strategy, RPGs, SRPGs, etc. (Front Mission 3 being one of my all time favorites.. not the greatest, but I love it)

Eh, its just not for me. Simple as that.
oh, you haven't hit any of the big story moments yet. Also, you really, don't need to grind in the skirmishes. They help, but not necessary to progress in the story.
 

patsu

Member
Assembly Required said:
Chp. 7

I re-played a the earlier battles I unlocked for training to gather my XP and money for upgrades. Um, I guess for me there isn't much I find appealing about this game. The visuals are nice, I dig the art direction. Don't really care for the setting or story/plot. I find the characters to be... nothing special. If it hasn't grabbed my attention yet, then going any further is just a lost cause.

The battle mechanics are cool. Takes a somewhat unique approach. And as much as I like it, its not enough. And like stated earlier...I love real time strategy, RPGs, SRPGs, etc. (Front Mission 3 being one of my all time favorites.. not the greatest, but I love it)

Eh, its just not for me. Simple as that.

I don't know if it's for you or not, but did you manage to complete Chapter 7 ?
 

Quixzlizx

Member
MC Safety said:
We can stop with the nonsense now. Tell me exactly how Valkyria Chronicles redefines whatever genre it exists in. If it's simply in terms of pairing turn-based strategy with story and role-playing elements, I have to tell you it's been done before.

And I merely thought you might have an axe to grind -- a big one -- because you took exception to someone questioning a clearly overwrought thread title on a video game message board.

You sound fat like a douche.
 

ixix

Exists in a perpetual state of Quantum Crotch Uncertainty.
Shadow780 said:
Oh boy I was watching the anime, did they just made Selvaria's boobs even bigger?:lol

yes

oh my god they turned selvaria into an rmvb this sin must not stand.
 
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