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[phosphor112]

Just curious. I know nothing new.

Mhm.

Did I make a ban bet that the specs have changed? Or insinuate that I have insider knowledge about a spec change?

All I said is that crow will be ate, which is like saying the sky will be blue that day.

Heck, I might be among the ones eating crow that day.

We've got a grade A pyromaniac here.

 

[FuturusX]

Third Console Curse.

What is this third console curse you speak. Pray tell. I've never heard of it before.

Why are we treating this news as something completly new? Those "facts" are out for months.

And the reactions in this thread are identical to the reactions in those older threads, but still it seems that we just found out in which direction MS will head in the future...

Nothing like fresh outrage. I like my outrage nice and fresh and so should you.

But on a serious note. Until the plans are revealed. The outrage will bubble up every time we get a new recycled rumour.

 

[CrankyKong]

If true, Microsoft is saving me a lot of money.

 

[Syphon Filter]

So what else does 'always on' mean? The Kinect camera is always turned on? That would be just as ridiculous.

always on can mean even like ps3 is now with the standby red light.

 

[DopeyFish]

SimCity is an online experience because friends and stats and cities.


Always connected, "...will always maintain a network connection."

That means when the system is powered off, the network connection, if there is one, will remain active

 

[wsippel]

Mandatory installations aren't unexpected (though I don't buy the "start playing within a few seconds" thing - it'll probably be a few minutes), and kinda confirm that the system won't play used games.

 

[statham]

Always online, Kinect required, installation required?


Cool, MS just saved me some money next gen. PS4 and PC all the way!!!

just asking, if the PS4 is the same would you go PC only?

in fact someone should start a thread, If PS4 has the same policies as 720, would you still buy a ps4. It'll be fun come E3.

 

[Codeblew]

I bet half of these people will have their PS4 always connected and not even realize it, but it's fun to hate xbox on neogaf, join in.

I think you miss the point. Always online requirement means you can't play games when:

1. Your internet goes out.
2. XBOX Live is down for maintenance
3. You just moved and it takes 1 - 2 weeks to get your new internet setup.
4. You take your machine with you on vacation and don't have internet
5. 6 years have passed and Microsoft decides to pull the plug on their servers. Now you cannot play your old games at all and your XBOX is now a doorstop.

 

[Iacobellis]

What is this third console curse you speak. Pray tell. I've never heard of it before.



Nothing like fresh outrage. I like my outrage nice and fresh and so should you.

But on a serious note. Until the plans are revealed. The outrage will bubble up every time we get a new recycled rumour.

Basically, the third console released by a company tanks to some extent, generally when they were the leader in the previous generation. Starting with the NES-era, the N64 did not see the success the NES and SNES did. For SEGA, the Saturn was seen as a commercial failure. Now, with Sony, the PS3 was not a disaster and has proven to be one heck of a machine, but it had a really rough start prior to launch.

 

[DopeyFish]

I think you miss the point. Always online requirement means you can't play games when:

1. Your internet goes out.
2. XBOX Live is down for maintenance
3. You just moved and it takes 1 - 2 weeks to get your new internet setup.
4. You take your machine with you on vacation and don't have internet
5. 6 years have passed and Microsoft decides to pull the plug on their servers. Now you cannot play your old games at all and your XBOX is now a doorstop.

You totally missed the entire point.

Always connected doesn't mean it must be online to operate.

Basically, the third console released by a company tanks to some extent, generally when they were the leader in the previous generation. Starting with the NES-era, the N64 did not see the success the NES and SNES did. For SEGA, the Saturn was seen as a commercial failure. Now, with Sony, the PS3 was not a disaster and has proven to be one heck of a machine, but it had a really rough start prior to launch.

How about "Microsoft gets it right by version 3"? That one is decades old and still stands true

 

[GuitarAtomik]

So what else does 'always on' mean? The Kinect camera is always turned on? That would be just as ridiculous.

Standby low power mode ala the PS4 so you never have to actually turn it off.
EDIT: beaten beaten beaten.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

SimCity is an online experience because friends and stats and cities.


Always connected, "...will always maintain a network connection."

"Durango will implement different power states so that it can always be powered on, but will draw minimal electricity when not in use. The console will be ready instantly when users want to play, and will always maintain a network connection so that console software and games are always current. With this 'Always On, Always Connected' design, users will quickly and easily enjoy their connected entertainment experiences, with no waiting for the console to restart or install updates."

How this paragraph=require online?
This XDK is for devs,if 720 require online,they need to mention it

So what else does 'always on' mean? The Kinect camera is always turned on? That would be just as ridiculous.

Just like 360's "It's on"

 

[poodpick]

Would firmware update happen automatically? Could consoles be bricked if the power went out while you were sleeping?

 

[ced]

As expected, one less thing I need to buy.

 

[fillup]

Installing games is great, optional installing should be required for all games.Forced installs should not. Yes it improves game performance, but sometimes I just want to play a game without having to wait for such a thing or I have filled my hard drive and don't want to delete things just to play it.



For posts like this, not specifically to just you fillup.

I used to serve, and I have friends currently serving a tour on-board a ship in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. To unwind, relax, have fun, people play video games. Tell me how useful will always on/always connected be to them? How playable will a system be, the fears presented here, when they have no ability to connect to XBLA or PSN/SEN at all? How fake will outrage be if I'm called back into service and I can't play the games I want to be because Microsoft demands a connection?

What about my friend who lives only 10km away from the headquarters of Microsoft, yet has no internet at his house because such services were never installed in the specific area he lives? How fake is that outrage at the fears this thread is presenting? He was quite mad he couldn't play the Catwoman missions in Arkham City without having to take his entire system over to another friend's house, so why wouldn't he be outraged at what this is all about? Sure you can be utterly dismissive about him and his problems, but even though living within biking distance of where they are creating the software for the next system, he's not going to be able to play it if again, the fears of this thread are valid.

Why is it such an outrage to expect periods of time where our internet goes down or Microsoft's server's go down. It's happened to all of us before. Again to the fears of this thread, will you honestly be okay if you buy a brand new game and can't play it because of an outage? How fun do you think Bionic Commando Rearmed 2 was for people during the PSN outage?

How exciting and interesting would it be for those who actually do replay games in the future when XBLA and PSN/SEN go down? I have my Playstation 1 plugged in right now because I needed to use a Guncon. How fake would my outrage be if after years of tracking down Elemental Gearbolt, that I couldn't play it because my system is waiting for "authentication"? I don't want that now with a present game, much less one that just happens to be old.

What if a kid who doesn't read such websites, and again the fears are true, takes his favourite brand new game he just bought on disc, and it won't work on his friend's system? That kid won't like it, even if some gamers never share their games and it doesn't matter to them.

I don't care if we are talking about the a Xbox, a Playstation, a Wii U, a Phantom, or a brand new amazing for everything it can do Dreamcast 2, it's the core issues and fears people have that is the concern and deciding factor over whether or not I buy a console.
Yes I have my PS3 and Wii U and Xbox 360 connected right now and they can use internet service whenever I want. It's great when I have that option, but it's best that I don't have to connect to a service or when EA's servers go down or the Ethernet cable is unplugged on accident, I can still bloody play my games and that is quite important to me.

If you are always connected, have no fears of ever losing connection, and this will not affect you at all that is great. People just shouldn't be so utterly dismissive to those who will be if again, the fears are true.

You're assuming that an internet connection is required in order to play a game. Nothing in the xdk document says that. They are talking about being able to keep the system up to date when powered off (on in low power state), and instant on. The PS4 has the same capabilities. It's a good feature to have.

 

[Dunlop]

I think you miss the point. Always online requirement means you can't play games when:

1. Your internet goes out.
2. XBOX Live is down for maintenance
3. You just moved and it takes 1 - 2 weeks to get your new internet setup.
4. You take your machine with you on vacation and don't have internet
5. 6 years have passed and Microsoft decides to pull the plug on their servers. Now you cannot play your old games at all and your XBOX is now a doorstop.

Nowhere in the OP does it state online will be required to play games. People have fun with the fact that MS has not refuted it, due to the small detail that they have not acknowledged even having a next gen console yet

 

[Iacobellis]

Would firmware update happen automatically? Could consoles be bricked if the power went out while you were sleeping?

This will just popup while playing Halo 5.

 

[JaggedSac]

Expectations are so low for MS's new box here on GAF, the reveal event thread should be interesting.

 

[Codeblew]

i actually have had a hunch throughout that the durango games shown april 26 will look better than what was shown on ps4 (well, kz4 was the only real confirmed ps4 gameplay i think)

that doesnt mean it's more powerful, but i expect durango software to be in a state of higher polish.

superdae said something like the durango games he's played are smoother than ps4 ones. i suspect thats why.

Superdae is full of crap. He didn't play any PS4 games and I doubt he played any Durango games. He got a dev kit by ordering it from Microsoft. The dev kits don't come with games that are in development from random development studios.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

This will just popup while playing Halo 5.

Well it already happened in 360 sometimes

 

[Boss Man]

How this paragraph=require online?
This XDK is for devs,if 720 require online,they need to mention it

Just like 360's "It's on"

This is where it's coming from:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=50770350&postcount=819

"Durango will implement different power states so that it can always be powered on, but will draw minimal electricity when not in use. The console will be ready instantly when users want to play, and will always maintain a network connection so that console software and games are always current. With this 'Always On, Always Connected' design, users will quickly and easily enjoy their connected entertainment experiences, with no waiting for the console to restart or install updates."

Eurogamer, EDGE, and VGleaks have basically been confirming each other's rumors for the past two months.

The "Kinect is required to be on" is in the EDGE article too. So was necessary installs.

Also, they were all spot on with PS4.



...We'll see what happens.

 

[Router]

I think you miss the point. Always online requirement means you can't play games when:

1. Your internet goes out.
2. XBOX Live is down for maintenance
3. You just moved and it takes 1 - 2 weeks to get your new internet setup.
4. You take your machine with you on vacation and don't have internet
5. 6 years have passed and Microsoft decides to pull the plug on their servers. Now you cannot play your old games at all and your XBOX is now a doorstop.

Good thing it doesn't say always online or its required.

 

[J-Rzez]

That said, they'll probably try to buy their way to victory with another $500 million dollar marketing campaign and send their army of mindless low standard know nothings to defend their shitty tech on forums and on game journalist websites and we'll be stuck with another gen of developers shoehorning their unrefined gimmicks into every bulletpointed, focus and boardroom tested, MODERN AAA disaster game that exists.

The ms munchkin army preparing for battle yet again. What I'm curious is if ms does go the anti consumer route if the media hugs their nuts again or not, especially if ms isn't hiring in their studios. Will the media, well what's left of it, call them out?

Anyways, for kinect to be forced sucks especially if its just used for interface usage, like browsing options/features or detecting which user to load up when the console is "turned on". I mean its probably more costly than Sony's and it might be more resource intensive.

Nothing wrong with installing games, especially for convenience of loading times and such. You will probably at least have said option on PS4. And as we know there's dedicated hardware for DL and ul of stuff on ps4 in background and while in standby iirc.

If thethere's no dedicated hardware for that on Durango then there's an issue I guess. I'm curious if the OS actually has as much bloat as ppl speculated though, as that could be trouble. Especially if MS figured Sony was going 4gb only so they can double it and run more bloat in the background.

Anyways I'm sure ms understands early adoption of consoles is taken up by hardcores as well as hype, so they'll prob target that off the bat, buy up some exclusives early on, etc..

 

[fritolay]

It might require the disc to play, like old PC games. But yeah, most likely it will need an activation code rendering the disc useless (unless you buy another code).

'
I want to know this mostly. Can i finally install a game to the HDD and not swap discs anymore?

I was going to play a game the other day, that had been installed, and the disc was scratched and I got an error. This ticked me off.

Now if this feature means no used games because of selling them after the install, well surely if the thing is always connected they could use the serial number to verify if you can install again to a current online system? Maybe this would like to lots of issues so MS is just wanting to say no to used games to anybody else. But what about taking the game to a friends house to play? I can't see that working for customers without everyone being furious.

 

[statham]

Well it already happened in 360 sometimes

do you want to talk about PS3 updates?

 

[shinobi602]

"Durango will implement different power states so that it can always be powered on, but will draw minimal electricity when not in use. The console will be ready instantly when users want to play, and will always maintain a network connection so that console software and games are always current. With this 'Always On, Always Connected' design, users will quickly and easily enjoy their connected entertainment experiences, with no waiting for the console to restart or install updates."

How this paragraph=require online?
This XDK is for devs,if 720 require online,they need to mention it

Just like 360's "It's on"

Umm...

"and will always maintain a network connection so that console software and games are always current."

 

[Syphon Filter]

This is where it's coming from:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=50770350&postcount=819



Eurogamer, EDGE, and VGleaks have basically been confirming each other's rumors for the past two months. They ended up being spot on with PS4. We'll see what happens.

i dont see anything there saying it requires it though.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

This is where it's coming from:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=50770350&postcount=819



Eurogamer, EDGE, and VGleaks have basically been confirming each other's rumors for the past two months. They ended up being spot on with PS4. We'll see what happens.

Yes,i'm asking,how that means require online?

 

[ChosenPredator]

I think you miss the point. Always online requirement means you can't play games when:

1. Your internet goes out.
2. XBOX Live is down for maintenance
3. You just moved and it takes 1 - 2 weeks to get your new internet setup.
4. You take your machine with you on vacation and don't have internet
5. 6 years have passed and Microsoft decides to pull the plug on their servers. Now you cannot play your old games at all and your XBOX is now a doorstop.

do we know if you can't play games yet if your net goes down or if XBL goes down? I admit if it's like you suggest that would blow ass but if it isn't then I don't see the big deal, they'd be nuts to not allow offline play I can't picture them being that stupid.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Umm...

"and will always maintain a network connection so that console software and games are always current."

yea but that is optional. if its not connected then you don't get the updates.

 

[CLEEK]

Yes,i'm asking,how that means require online?

i dont see anything there saying it requires it though.

The Edge article starts with the sentence:

Microsoft’s next console will require an Internet connection in order to function

 

[Dunlop]

Umm...

"and will always maintain a network connection so that console software and games are always current."

The system is designed to always be on-line is not the same as it being required

low powered state I assume is like when my 360 or PS3 download games after I turn them off

 

[Amir0x]

The ms munchkin army preparing for battle yet again. What I'm curious is if ms does go the anti consumer route if the media hugs their nuts again or not, especially if ms isn't hiring in their studios. Will the media, well what's left of it, call them out?

Anyways, for kinect to be forced sucks especially if its just used for interface usage, like browsing options/features or detecting which user to load up when the console is "turned on". I mean its probably more costly than Sony's and it might be more resource intensive.

Nothing wrong with installing games, especially for convenience of loading times and such. You will probably at least have said option on PS4. And as we know there's dedicated hardware for DL and ul of stuff on ps4 in background and while in standby iirc.

If thethere's no dedicated hardware for that on Durango then there's an issue I guess. I'm curious if the OS actually has as much bloat as ppl speculated though, as that could be trouble. Especially if MS figured Sony was going 4gb only so they can double it and run more bloat in the background.

Anyways I'm sure ms understands early adoption of consoles is taken up by hardcores as well as hype, so they'll prob target that off the bat, buy up some exclusives early on, etc..

Honestly based on what Sony announced PS4 will be doing, I expect their OS will be taking up a lot of room too. Which is good if we want a smooth experience, of course. But Sony did go with 8GB, so they have some room to play with. Maybe Microsoft has now tinkered with the system to be competitive on that level too... we'll see. They are cutthroats as we well know

 

[Satchel]

I find it funny that core gamers are being scared off by this stuff.

I think most of this stuff is worse for the casual market. Not us.

Most if us are always connected to the net.

Most of us would LOVE to not have to have the disc in the tray

If Kinect is bundled and NEEDS to be connected...so? It comes in the box. Just plug it in.

The voice and feature control is cool stuff.

 

[Iacobellis]

Well it already happened in 360 sometimes

Whoa. Never had that happen before!

 

[Router]

Umm...

"and will always maintain a network connection so that console software and games are always current."

Yes. While it is on or in standby. Just like the first sentence of that paragraph states. Nowhere does it say an internet connection is required.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This will just popup while playing Halo 5.

What the fuck... that exact window just popped up for me while reading this thread. I'd never seen it using Windows 7 before. I'm kinda scared now.

 

[JaggedSac]

IMO the new box will install all games the same way regardless of the medium they are delivered. To the box, installing data from disc will be the same as installing data from a server. This way they could implement the "start playing soon after install" stuff across the board and devs can target all game data as streaming from the HD. This is probably just further indication that day and date releases with happen with retail and DD for the next box.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

Umm...

"and will always maintain a network connection so that console software and games are always current."

Sounds more and more like this is for the update feature.

 

[shinobi602]

yea but that is optional. if its not connected then you don't get the updates.

Yes. While it is on or in standby. Just like the first sentence of that paragraph states. Nowhere does it say an internet connection is required.

Sounds more and more like this is for the update feature.

...ok so what is the point in even mentioning that? All consoles do that now, it's nothing special.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

The Edge article starts with the sentence:

This is how they reads,just like...here

 

[fritolay]

Imagine if you wanted to play Minecraft by yourself, maybe because your internet line is down and you can't play COD of Battlefield. But the XBOX won't let you because it requires an internet connection. Surely this is not the case right?

 

[Uno Venova]

...ok so what is the point in even mentioning that? All consoles do that now, it's nothing special.

It's a semantics game being played, it sounds like the same always online leaks we have been hearing from multiple sites. But since it's not being explicitly said. You get round and round arguments.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

...ok so what is the point in even mentioning that? All consoles do that now, it's nothing special.

It's XDK for devs,not common customers

It's a semantics game being played, it sounds like the same always online leaks we have been hearing from multiple sites. But since it's not being explicitly said. You get round and round arguments.

Play word games to devs?seriously?

 

[CLEEK]

Imagine if you wanted to play Minecraft by yourself, maybe because your internet line is down and you can't play COD of Battlefield. But the XBOX won't let you because it requires an internet connection. Surely this is not the case right?

This scenario is 100% likely to possibly happen. Perhaps.

 

[KenOD]

You're assuming that an internet connection is required in order to play a game. Nothing in the xdk document says that. They are talking about being able to keep the system up to date when powered off (on in low power state), and instant on. The PS4 has the same capabilities. It's a good feature to have.

Oh I am and I agree it's a good feature to have (unless you need to save energy), which is why in my post I constantly mention "the fears presented". In the context of the "fake outrage" and dismissal of the fears, I'm taking the statements of the fear as though they are correct, because if they are then it's plenty to reasonably be concerned, worried, and yes outraged about.

Obviously if no online requirement exists and other such issues, none of the fears or concerns matter and it will be outrage for nothing just as it was over "PS3 will block used games" scare that showed up before it's release. I hope it's another such case, but I stand firm in that there is nothing wrong with having such fears, complaints, and concerns as long as it's logical and reasonable. It helps reminds others that not everyone wants a Bionic Commando Rearmed 2 or Sim City 2013 situation and we can get good discussion when it's not going around in circles, dismissal, or the same repeated gif usage.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

...ok so what is the point in even mentioning that? All consoles do that now, it's nothing special.

I think the idea is that updates can happen in the background when they're available without you being prompted ala PSN+ allows or how the Wii was supposed to let you know when new stuff was available.

 

[bigtroyjon]

...ok so what is the point in even mentioning that? All consoles do that now, it's nothing special.

All consoles don't do that now, specifically the 360 doesn't do that now so it would be something for MS to mention on their new console since it's new.

 

[Absinthian]

At this point I think it would be better to buy a PC over a Durango... Hopefully they release a good kinect game to make that thing viable as a video game controller.

 

[dreamcastmaster]

I think the idea is that updates can happen in the background when they're available without you being prompted ala PSN+ allows or how the Wii was supposed to let you know when new stuff was available.

Or the idea is to stop those filthy pirates who have 2 xbox's, one for online and one for copies. I don't always have my Xbox connected online, if I have to sign in to play then looks like I won't be getting the new Xbox. Sadly.