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[spiderman123]

They have a standard field test, they should have done it rather than endangered a person's life. They should be charged depending on what the law says.

However, I unfortunately cannot sympathize with the kid as well. Transporting liquid meth is pretty stupid. Kid should have told them it was drugs, struck a plea bargain and lead them to the suppliers.

 

[Theonik]

not as stupid as this post. You're with the border agents on this one? What is wrong with you?

*shrug*

How are you siding with border patrol, when they didn't perform any due diligence? The kid is dead because they didn't feel like doing their fucking jobs. All they had to do was test the fucking liquid, instead of this chicken bullshit.

They probably had reason to believe it was meth if not then there is no story here. However tests are not 100% reliable and false positives happen.

In these situations it is quite common to be asked to consume the product. Seen it happen in border patrol all the time. A friend of mine was forced to try her baby milk before being allowed to board a plane

They aren't expecting you to kill yourself which is why they do this in the first place.

 

[NCSOFT]

I hear you and I respect your point. I really do. What concerns me, is that we have this "somewhat" false pretense that young people make stupid mistakes/decisions, and full grown adults are way more mature, SIMPLY because they are OLDER.

So its basically age vs maturity.
Lower age = lower maturity.
Higher age = higher maturity.

BUT the real world? Doesn't always work like this.

[Side Tangent] I'm not much of a social media guy. I have the ocassionally stagnant FB account, and I "think" snapchat. That's it. I'm 26. So....during the last 15 months of this presidential election(you see where I'm going with this) I hear from people how they cut off their close family members, friends, etc. Twitter warz galore. Now these people degrading and insulting each other(no matter how wrong or right, it's all about how the message is sent across) was WRONG.

TL;DR: My point is I will not immediately assume a teenager is immature and foolish, and I will not assume a grown man or woman is intelligent to make clear and concise judgement calls. Dat sin nature baby

I agree with you, though I don't think the point is important, regardless of whether he's 16 or 60, this practice should not be encouraged, and no one deserves this.

 

[Lucky Seven]

I would told them to go fuck themselves

Spoiler

against my own best judgement.

 

[pigeon]

However, I unfortunately cannot sympathize with the kid as well. Transporting liquid meth is pretty stupid.

Stupidity shouldn't carry the death penalty.

 

[A Link to the Past]

*shrug*


They probably had reason to believe it was meth if not then there is no story here. However tests are not 100% reliable and false positives happen.

In these situations it is quite common to be asked to consume the product. Seen it happen in border patrol all the time. A friend of mine was forced to try her baby milk before being allowed to board a plane

They aren't expecting you to kill yourself which is why they do this in the first place.

People are rightfully giving you dirty looks because you've basically declared that bp agents have less obligations than children. A kid, when faced with authority figures, is going to make really stupid decisions, even if they're not even guilty. This kid obviously was, and basic common sense would have told the agents that there was a risk involved in what they were doing.

Someone dies when these agents fuck around like this. No one dies when we hold them to a higher standard than children.

 

[NCSOFT]

*shrug*


They probably had reason to believe it was meth if not then there is no story here. However tests are not 100% reliable and false positives happen.

In these situations it is quite common to be asked to consume the product. Seen it happen in border patrol all the time. A friend of mine was forced to try her baby milk before being allowed to board a plane

They aren't expecting you to kill yourself which is why they do this in the first place.

Then they should end this practice, for one, there is a possibility that the person does not know what is in the fluid and drink it and find out the hard way. Or you can have cases like this where people are anxious and are pressured into making impulsive choices to risk their lives rather than be jailed.

 

[Sai-kun]

*shrug*


They probably had reason to believe it was meth if not then there is no story here. However tests are not 100% reliable and false positives happen.

In these situations it is quite common to be asked to consume the product. Seen it happen in border patrol all the time. A friend of mine was forced to try her baby milk before being allowed to board a plane

They aren't expecting you to kill yourself which is why they do this in the first place.

if someone can fucking die from a work practice maybe you shouldn't be doing it

 

[AmayaPapaya]

They should be fired. Any officer that thinks they can play around with people's lives like that, shouldn't weild power. That kid lost his life because they thought it would be funny if he drank liqued meth :| They should be charged with something, too.

 

[Mahonay]

Fucking heinous. Those border agents should be in jail.

They should be fired. Any officer that thinks they can play around with people's lives like that, shouldn't weild power. That kid lost his life because they thought it would be funny if he drank liqued meth :| They should be charged with something, too.

Fired is not enough. They 100 percent deserve jail time.

 

[NCSOFT]

Stupidity shouldn't carry the death penalty.

Exactly, but even if it does, international standards dictated that no one under the age of 18 should be put to death, and right to not be subjected to cruel and usually punishment suggest that being poisoned to death of completely unacceptable.
the comment that you quoted was completely heartless.

 

[Meia]

They probably had reason to believe it was meth if not then there is no story here. However tests are not 100% reliable and false positives happen.

In these situations it is quite common to be asked to consume the product. Seen it happen in border patrol all the time. A friend of mine was forced to try her baby milk before being allowed to board a plane

They aren't expecting you to kill yourself which is why they do this in the first place.

Whatever happened to the idea of "I'd rather have a 100 guilty people go free than have 1 innocent person go to jail" that this country's judicial system was based on?


Let's look at the worst case scenarios for this, shall we? Test the liquid, it comes up that it's nothing, he transports it in and gets away with it. Tell the kid to drink it, and he dies. Which is the worse outcome, especially since the one that prevents the loss of a life is a simple test? :\

 

[NCSOFT]

if someone can fucking die from a work practice maybe you shouldn't be doing it

They should definitely rethink this practice, just because something has been practiced does not mean that it is right.

 

[7Th]

Did anyone actually read the story? Dude lied and said it was AJ... they asked him to drink it and he did. Death or jail... he made his choice.

The government lost the lawsuit and is paying a million dollars for a reason, there is nothing to defend.

 

[Slayven]

*shrug*


They probably had reason to believe it was meth if not then there is no story here. However tests are not 100% reliable and false positives happen.

In these situations it is quite common to be asked to consume the product. Seen it happen in border patrol all the time. A friend of mine was forced to try her baby milk before being allowed to board a plane

They aren't expecting you to kill yourself which is why they do this in the first place.

You giving people that have guns less expectation of responsibly then a child.

"Better have mikey eat it, not like there are labs and scientist who check this shit"

 

[poppedcollar69]

this is pretty tragic, and hopefully we can learn something from it and improve the systems in place

but it doesn't seem to me like the agents are really culpable for anything and it doesn't seem to me like that lawsuit has any legs

 

[TheTylerRob]

Why would you drink liquid meth?

 

[NCSOFT]

The government lost the lawsuit and is paying a million dollars for a reason, there is nothing to defend.

That's a relief at least, I don't think that's nearly enough and people should also be prosecuted for this. In addition, they should also definitely rethink the practice of encouraging people to drink/eat the suspicious products that they bring.

 

[Slayven]

this is pretty tragic, and hopefully we can learn something from it and improve the systems in place

but it doesn't seem to me like the agents are really culpable for anything and it doesn't seem to me like that lawsuit has any legs

And yet they lost it

 

[Theonik]

People are rightfully giving you dirty looks because you've basically declared that bp agents have less obligations than children. A kid, when faced with authority figures, is going to make really stupid decisions, even if they're not even guilty. This kid obviously was, and basic common sense would have told the agents that there was a risk involved in what they were doing.

Someone dies when these agents fuck around like this. No one dies when we hold them to a higher standard than children.

I don't know what the comparison here is you are basically telling me the 16 year old smuggler didn't know what could happen. He was absolutely aware of what was in the bottle and what could happen to him but decided to drink it and anyway to convince the agents and avoid going to jail.

Even his family's lawyer admits wrongdoing. It's unfortunate but these are all risks people run when smuggling drugs, people get shot at for this kinda thing. 16 year olds have no business in this kind of gig but that's a pretty complex topic on its own.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Why not take the substance, hold the individual and test it in a lab? Isn't that standard procedure?

 

[cucuchu]

Whatever happened to the idea of "I'd rather have a 100 guilty people go free than have 1 innocent person go to jail" that this country's judicial system was based on?


Let's look at the worst case scenarios for this, shall we? Test the liquid, it comes up that it's nothing, he transports it in and gets away with it. Tell the kid to drink it, and he dies. Which is the worse outcome, especially since the one that prevents the loss of a life is a simple test? :\

The argument could be made that the meth he sneaks in ends up killing other people or assisting in their deaths.

I just say keep the liquid and let him go if they have to. Yeah, they might not be able to track him down but at least he won't have the drugs. Or just follow protocol.

 

[Figboy79]

Fucking monsters.

This kid, regardless of what he was doing, didn't deserve death. Arrest him, let him be held accountable for the drug smuggling, but don't fucking kill him. Disgusting.

US Police are bullies and sociopaths.

 

[hipbabboom]

Take the liquid. Test it. Simple as that. Jesus Christ.

A conservative friend of mine was like "There's such a thing as personal responsibility" as a way to say she supported in what the customs agent did. She refused to acknowledge the fact that it was the command of the agent that killed him and that the agent had other ways of handling this that wouldn't endanger human life but she basically said the boy deserved to die because he was doing something illegal.

"Personal responsibility" from a person who started smoking pot because it became legal and then the miracle of how it can help people became clear to her. Not to mention she's tried hard illegal drugs in the past and got away with it which she dismissed with "I would have owned up to it if I was caught with drugs."

It's like talking to a wall.

 

[NCSOFT]

I don't know what the comparison here is you are basically telling me the 16 year old smuggler didn't know what could happen. He was absolutely aware of what was in the bottle and what could happen to him but decided to drink it and anyway to convince the agents and avoid going to jail.

Even his family's lawyer admits wrongdoing. It's unfortunate but these are all risks people run when smuggling drugs, people get shot at for this kinda thing. 16 year olds have no business in this kind of gig but that's a pretty complex topic on its own.

This is contradictory, clearly if he thinks this can convince the agents and for him to avoid going to jail, then he doesn't know this would kill him, or else what is the point of him avoiding going to jail when he's dead.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I don't know what the comparison here is you are basically telling me the 16 year old smuggler didn't know what could happen. He was absolutely aware of what was in the bottle and what could happen to him but decided to drink it and anyway to convince the agents and avoid going to jail.

Even his family's lawyer admits wrongdoing. It's unfortunate but these are all risks people run when smuggling drugs, people get shot at for this kinda thing. 16 year olds have no business in this kind of gig but that's a pretty complex topic on its own.

The family admits that he made a stupid and bad decision by smuggling drugs. That does nothing whatsoever to suggest one way or another that he understood the danger of consuming the liquid meth. We don't know what the kid knew, but we have a pretty good idea of what BP knew. BP either:

1. Is so poorly trained that they didn't know the risk, or
2. Are trained to know the risk and ignored it

So it's entirely bizarre that you land squarely on the side that is either grossly inept or actively malicious.

This is contradictory, clearly if he thinks this can convince the agents and for him to avoid going to jail, then he doesn't know this would kill him, or else what is the point of him avoiding going to jail when he's dead.

I didn't even think about that lol. Guy wants to have his cake and eat it too. If he knows the lethality of it, he knows that consuming it will not protect him. The more reasonable assumption is that the kid didn't know any better about how dangerous even a small amount can be.

 

[Prophaniti]

Liquid meth, as in raw uncut undiluted pure amphetamine.

Well if if it's been diluted into water...its not undiluted. Also most meth is uncut. Still seems odd he died from that. Yelling "my heart my heart" doesn't add up either. First time user would have had his eyes rolled back on another planet. At least at first. Something definitely weird about that.

What a shitty way to die and for no reason. Great police work. 3 minutes is generous for how long it takes to test. That's including the time to get it out of the drawer it's in. Ugh.

 

[poppedcollar69]

And yet they lost it

well, it says that the govt agreed to pay it, rather than saying they were ordered to pay it, ianal but sounds like some sort of settlement

never mind, you're right. tbh i just watched the video and must have missed that part, my bad

 

[Armaros]

*shrug*


They probably had reason to believe it was meth if not then there is no story here. However tests are not 100% reliable and false positives happen.

In these situations it is quite common to be asked to consume the product. Seen it happen in border patrol all the time. A friend of mine was forced to try her baby milk before being allowed to board a plane

They aren't expecting you to kill yourself which is why they do this in the first place.

Good to know your standards for law enforcement are so low they touch the floor.

 

[pigeon]

I don't know what the comparison here is you are basically telling me the 16 year old smuggler didn't know what could happen.

Uh...yeah? Why would you assume he would know?

 

[Theonik]

This is contradictory, clearly if he thinks this can convince the agents and for him to avoid going to jail, then he doesn't know this would kill him, or else what is the point of him avoiding going to jail when he's dead.

This is the nature of risk taking. On one hand you have certain jail time. On the other you have very likely death. People act irrationally under pressure.

 

[NCSOFT]

A conservative friend of mine was like "There's such a thing as personal responsibility" as a way to say she supported in what the customs agent did. She refused to acknowledge the fact that it was the command of the agent that killed him and that the agent had other ways of handling this that wouldn't endanger human life but she basically said the boy deserved to die because he was doing something illegal.

"Personal responsibility" from a person who started smoking pot because it became legal and then the miracle of how it can help people became clear to her. Not to mention she's tried hard illegal drugs in the past and got away with it which she dismissed with "I would have owned up to it if I was caught with drugs."

It's like talking to a wall.

Well said, this can be avoided if handled differently I don't see it being a personal responsibility thing at all.
The sentiment that just because you did something wrong you deserve to die a horrible death is so commonplace in America that it is disheartening (and for a kid no less!). This story is making me so sad that I wish I have not read it....

 

[mugen812]

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/deepdive/video-border-officers-actions-lead-tragedy-48912222

The 20/20 special I think really sheds more light on the story. The episode itself has the deposition video of the two border agents that were responsible. After watching it, it was pretty damn clear that these two idiots made the kid take a drink for their own damn amusement. The smirk on the lady during the depo was pretty infuriating. As other have said, they have field tests that could've easily resolved this. Instead, they make the kid take not just one, but multiple gulps because they thought it was funny.

The 16 year old kid was wrong to have tried to smuggle the stuff in. But from what I understand, it's a situation where if he doesn't his life and his family lives are at stake from the cartel. It's a tough situation, but certainly not one where they should be judge jury and executioner.

 

[A Link to the Past]

This is the nature of risk taking. On one hand you have certain jail time. On the other you have very likely death. People act irrationally under pressure.

So to you, it is more likely that the kid knew it could kill him and did it anyway than it is that the drug cartel didn't give him unnecessary information? I'm very curious what evidence you can provide that shows this to be the case.

You're also assuming that the kid just went into drug smuggling for funsies, as opposed to him doing it under duress. I'll also ask you why you make that assumption.

 

[Demoskinos]

Really messed up how okay our law enforcement is with killing kids. Those agents knew exactly what that was and even if they were trying to call his bluff and get him to admit what it was they should haven't allowed that to happen.

 

[NCSOFT]

This is the nature of risk taking. On one hand you have certain jail time. On the other you have very likely death. People act irrationally under pressure.

Then he should not be pressured into acting it. If this is common practice, we have to take basic psychology and risk taking behavior into account and stop this practice.
Also, I don't really buy this, if he knows that he would very likely die, avoiding jail should be the least of his concern, he likely doesn't know he's likely to die or very unsure.
Either way, this is completely avoidable if handled differently.

 

[Dipper145]

At what point would the child in this situation not be wrong? What if they were 14, or 12, or 10? Is there any point where you don't go "well the trained professional and the nervous kid were both wrong"?

If we were to draw a black and white line that covered all cases and situations I would imagine the age of majority would be used as the line for being completely innocent/not at fault in anything you do, and being at fault when above that line. In this case in the US the age is 21, and 18 in Mexico, so then this person carries no fault for knowingly or unknowingly carrying illegal substances across the border.

I'm assuming (or more rather hoping) the agents genuinely didn't know it was drugs, and assuming they do these sip tests for all liquids that people bring across the border to save time and money. Even so, they are obviously still at fault here.

Obviously if they knew it was drugs, and got him to drink it, they should be charged with some form of manslaughter, depending on if they knew the consumption would result in death or not.

 

[CherryWoodFuton]

Idiots should have followed protocol (is there one?) and tested the substance through an analyzer instead of being smart asses.

 

[King Tubby]

Why would you drink liquid meth?

Because you're 16 years old, you don't know that it'll kill you, and you don't want to go to prison.

 

[Ishan]

I'd like to hear from our liberal posters who are anti-immigration.

im anti illegal immigration. And consider myself liberal.

This is messed up. I dont see why no further action was taken against the officers. I can understand it wasnt their intention to kill him but it did go too far and even if due to national/border laws I'm not aware how they can be prosecuted under the law at the very least they should have had action taken against them within the department.

 

[NCSOFT]

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/deepdive/video-border-officers-actions-lead-tragedy-48912222

The 20/20 special I think really sheds more light on the story. The episode itself has the deposition video of the two border agents that were responsible. After watching it, it was pretty damn clear that these two idiots made the kid take a drink for their own damn amusement. The smirk on the lady during the depo was pretty infuriating. As other have said, they have field tests that could've easily resolved this. Instead, they make the kid take not just one, but multiple gulps because they thought it was funny.

The 16 year old kid was wrong to have tried to smuggle the stuff in. But from what I understand, it's a situation where if he doesn't his life and his family lives are at stake from the cartel. It's a tough situation, but certainly not one where they should be judge jury and executioner.

If this is really the case then I believe he is not wrong, our judgement of what's right and wrong should be more flexible than simply what the law says. In a situation where everyone could be forced to behave the same way, that behavior should no longer be intrinsically wrong.

 

[riotous]

They asked him to drink an unidentified liquid to prove it was benign; liquid turned out to be liquid meth.

Which I guess I should have expected coming in, but from the thread title I thought they literally knew what it was and "made" him do it.

Have no clue what the protocol is here, but obviously it's a bad idea to ask people to consume liquids as some sort of litmus test.

 

[jetjevons]

He's dead. They're not. This is bullshit. Just terrifying.

 

[Ishan]

WTF

Prison for life.

This would be involuntary manslaughter I would assume. I'm pretty sure you cant get life in prison for that. What is fucked up is they seem to have gotten off completely free.

 

[Xe4]

Jesus that's fucked. These guys deserve to be hit with at least a manslaughter charge. That breaks so many protocols it's fucking insane.

Because you're 16 years old, you don't know that it'll kill you, and you don't want to go to prison.

Yeah, the kid probably had no idea of the potency. He probably hasn't done hard drugs once in his life, so he had no idea how easy he could've OD'd.

 

[CDX]

They have test kits available that would’ve given results in two to three minutes.”

Iredale said the officers did test the liquid for drugs, but only after the teen started overdosing.

So on-site testing was available.

Yeah. I can't imagine it's the proper protocol to have a suspect consume suspected drugs. If it is what they're trained to do, that needs to be changed.

If you assume something is drugs, don't request the suspect to consume it. Confiscate it and test it.

 

[A Link to the Past]

This would be involuntary manslaughter I would assume. I'm pretty sure you cant get life in prison for that. What is fucked up is they seem to have gotten off completely free.

I dunno. I mean, it's reasonable to assume that they knew that it could cause the kid to die, right? Or at the very least, their training should have told them that? I think you would be able to demonstrate one or the other, which would come off as voluntary manslaughter to me.

 

[Netherscourge]

They're fucking LAUGHING while he does it.

 

[MikeyB]

They're fucking LAUGHING while he does it.

They don't see the kid as human. Better keep them on active duty.

 

[SaviourMK2]

I don't have a problem with the concept of boarder patrol. But get the uber nationalist shits out of there.
If you can't respect human life over country you have no place being "patrol"