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[Nodnol]

I believe you're mistaken here. I think she was always talking to Bernard and that she never actually talked to Arnold that we got to see. Arnold has been dead for 30 years so had she ever talked to him, she'd be a young lady at the time and she would likely recognize that Bernard looks just like him.

It was speculated before the reveal, that the conversations between "Bernard" and Dolores were actually Arnold. We now have that proof, pretty much.

Dolores' conversation with the ghost of Arnold was in the exact same setting as those previously shown interactions...there's also a curiosity to the conversations that isn't present with Bernard. Add to that, that any host interactions Bernard has, take place in the normal labs we see other characters in, so we can now draw the conclusion that Arnold's curiosity with Dolores ultimately got the better of him.

She was, and is, special. There's something cruel and tragic in how Dolores and Teddy have been constrained by Ford in their respective loops.

 

[squidyj]

I believe you're mistaken here. I think she was always talking to Bernard and that she never actually talked to Arnold that we got to see. Arnold has been dead for 30 years so had she ever talked to him, she'd be a young lady at the time and she would likely recognize that Bernard looks just like him.

she's a robot.

 

[Apt101]

I never watched this show as the episodes premiered.... like Game of Thrones, are the episodes available on HBO Now the same time they premiere live?

 

[Makai]

she's a robot.

haha

I never watched this show as the episodes premiered.... like Game of Thrones, are the episodes available on HBO Now the same time they premiere live?

yeah

 

[Speevy]

I never watched this show as the episodes premiered.... like Game of Thrones, are the episodes available on HBO Now the same time they premiere live?

They are available in the past also but occur at the same time as the other episodes.

 

[Jack Scofield]

You know hosts don't age physically right?

Technically, since the brain is all that separates hosts from humans (according to the show), a host's body should theoretically age, right? I know that's not how it works in the show, I'm just saying.

 

[DorkLord54]

I never watched this show as the episodes premiered.... like Game of Thrones, are the episodes available on HBO Now the same time they premiere live?

Yessir, so get to watching it before the finale on Sunday.

 

[Matty77]

I believe you're mistaken here. I think she was always talking to Bernard and that she never actually talked to Arnold that we got to see. Arnold has been dead for 30 years so had she ever talked to him, she'd be a young lady at the time and she would likely recognize that Bernard looks just like him.

Umm...she knows who Arnold is. She was his special host to implement his plan from what we know, plus as this latest episode revealed she herself now remembers that she killed Arnold.

 

[Makai]

Technically, since the brain is all that separates hosts from humans (according to the show), a host's body should theoretically age, right? I know that's not how it works in the show, I'm just saying.

That's why they go in the dunk tank every couple of weeks.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

Technically, since the brain is all that separates hosts from humans (according to the show), a host's body should theoretically age, right? I know that's not how it works in the show, I'm just saying.

They might wear and tear, but at that point they'd just go in for repairs. But they only evolve in how they're built.

 

[duckroll]

The first time we see "Bernard" talk to Dolores in the basement room and he tells her about the maze, that is 100% Arnold. The showrunners mentioned that they had to let Wright in on the "reveal" for Bernard being a host pretty early for "character reasons", and that reason is almost certainly that they wanted him to play Arnold a little differently in that early scene.

Technically, since the brain is all that separates hosts from humans (according to the show), a host's body should theoretically age, right? I know that's not how it works in the show, I'm just saying.

No. They are nothing like humans. Felix is just talking shit. Nolan confirmed their biology is different and they don't even need to breath oxygen. Also, their bodies are replacement and changeable. The biological fleshbot bodies are relatively new. Dolores was a Terminator model originally.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

No. They are nothing like humans. Felix is just talking shit. Nolan confirmed their biology is different and they don't even need to breath oxygen. Also, their bodies are replacement and changeable. The biological fleshbot bodies are relatively new. Dolores was a Terminator model originally.

bolded part: but duckie, not everyone watched what nolan says outside of the show. i dont think jack's wrong with his inference because he operates on information provided in the show.

i think they shouldn't have said, in the show, that the hosts are virtually the same with regular humans (except that their brain is a chip) if they dont want viewers to be confused on what technology their world is operating with.

 

[duckroll]

bolded part: but duckie, not everyone watched what nolan says outside of the show. i dont think jack's wrong with his inference because he operates on information provided in the show.

i think they shouldn't have said, in the show, that the hosts are virtually the same with regular humans (except that their brain is a chip) if they dont want viewers to be confused on what technology their world is operating with.

This is the same show that has characters saying the hosts wouldn't hurt a fly. Exaggeration and overstating facts seems like a standard MO.

 

[shira]

No. They are nothing like humans. Felix is just talking shit. Nolan confirmed their biology is different and they don't even need to breath oxygen. Also, their bodies are replacement and changeable. The biological fleshbot bodies are relatively new. Dolores was a Terminator model originally.

It's weird that they need blood though. What's the point of blood if you don't need O2

 

[duckroll]

It's weird that they need blood though. What's the point of blood if you don't need O2

There's no indication that their blood is anything like our blood though. It could just be some sort of magic scifi liquid power source or whatever. Lol.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

What if they run on True Blood?

 

[mlclmtckr]

This is the same show that has characters saying the hosts wouldn't hurt a fly. Exaggeration and overstating facts seems like a standard MO.

Wait, what does this mean? The hosts don't hurt flies. Except for Dolores who isn't working as intended.

It's weird that they need blood though. What's the point of blood if you don't need O2

Maybe the blood is just for gameplay. It looks good for the guests and when they lose too much of it they run out of HP.

 

[mnemonicj]

This series is really entertaining. I'm having a lot of fun watching it, but if feels slow at times. The Dolores and the other guy story is turning really boring already.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

This is the same show that has characters saying the hosts wouldn't hurt a fly. Exaggeration and overstating facts seems like a standard MO.

yea, but then.... are viewers expected to just disregard all show information as exaggerations and overstatements ?


im not arguing with you that the show's intentionally unreliable, but as a general concept, if a show's canon information cannot be used to reliably discuss the show, then .....????????

all im saying is that jack's operating on information provided in the show. i guess, that's .... not okay, with westworld. is it? ugh. i might have confused myself again



pls, i need someone to up my bulk apertitude stat :<

 

[-griffy-]

It's weird that they need blood though. What's the point of blood if you don't need O2

They don't literally need blood, but they are programmed to "die" when they lose blood to service the experience.

Also, the hosts are clearly similar to humans in that they have organic organs and are programmed to react to many things in the way humans are supposed to, and literally function in the way humans do, but they are also clearly not-human as well, and their programming is holding them back from what they are truly capable of.

 

[Faddy]

The first time we see "Bernard" talk to Dolores in the basement room and he tells her about the maze, that is 100% Arnold. The showrunners mentioned that they had to let Wright in on the "reveal" for Bernard being a host pretty early for "character reasons", and that reason is almost certainly that they wanted him to play Arnold a little differently in that early scene.

I was confused too because she and Bernarnold have a conversation where he says she killed him which made me think that at one point in time Bernard knew he was Arnold or something.

WHAT REALLY HAPPENED

The scenes with Dolores and Arnold are Present Day Dolores memories like all the flashes she has through the journey.

Getting stabbed in the gut seems to be the key to awakening memories. So the MiB probably stabbed her in the barn (we see walk out with a gut wound). Then after that she starts remembering things and her desire to go on a quest.

 

[The Mule]

I would've preferred in the first season they kept the nature of the park a secret to the audience, not seeing any of the park's operations, and the big reveal at the end is that they're robots in a theme park. Could've made for a much better mysterious build up of suspense and drama as the hosts try to figure out the weird things they're seeing and experiencing. And then the second season could deal with the mystery of the park's origins and Arnold.

Of course, that would've meant not using the Westworld name and a different credits intro. I guess what I want is a different show entirely.

 

[creatchee]

So something had been bothering me for a while - Dolores' clothes, but not what you might be thinking. I had noticed that Dolores had been wearing her Indiana Jones outfit both in the past and the future timeframes. But why? In the past, she had switched clothes to pull off the nitroglycerin heist, and remained in them thus far in the past portions of the show. However, why would she change them in the present? Better yet - how would she change them in the present? The storyline that she followed with Lawrence and the Confederate Army (hence, the change of clothes) was not active, as Lawrence was busy being The Man in Black's guide - and that is assuming that that particular story is even still available in the present. And suggesting that a host would just find those particular clothes to get in a nostalgic mood goes completely against logic.

So I rewatched the entire series. I got back to Episode 5 (Contrapasso) and, low and behold - the answer at 19:12. It is where Ford is interviewing her after she faints in Pariah. This is taking place in the present, as Ford is aged. While the interview itself holds some nuggets, the important part here is its placement - it takes place right before (on the show) the meeting in the past with Lawrence, Dolores, Logan, and William where she... gasp... gets her change of clothes into Indiana Jones gear. At that point, any of the scenes she is in that take place during the present (which are basically scenes without William) she is in the Indiana Jones outfit. This actually helps draw an important distinction in Episode 9 when she gets to the church and the underground facility. She is in her blue dress for the scenes that are flashbacks to the beta test or otherwise before William, as the church and town were already buried during that timeframe and only excavated in the present.

So what does it all mean?

Simply, that Ford is the one who put her in the Indiana Jones outfit in the present. And why would he put a farmer's daughter in a cowgirl/archeologist outfit anyway? Simple - because she is no longer playing the same role that she had been for 30 years. Ford assigned her to something else. SOMEONE else. The role that is the centerpiece of his new narrative, and the very person that the Man in Black is looking for when he throws upon the church doors:

Wyatt.

Dolores is now Wyatt.

 

[gofreak]

I feel like I need to watch the whole thing over.

I guess Elsie and Arnold...they had no family or friends outside the park who cared about them?

So Theresa's death is public, dealt with in that way. Fine.

Arnold's presumably was...but then nobody outside noticed that Ford had 'replaced' him with Bernard, or found that in any way objectionable?

Elsie has been a goner - or so we think - for I guess weeks now, and there's no external query? Inside the park people think she's on leave or something, but outsiders?

Then again, we don't really know what the outside world is like here. All the park employees seem to live and work in the park complex. But still, I have to imagine there are external connections...

 

[Joni]

I feel like I need to watch the whole thing over.

I guess Elsie and Arnold...they had no family or friends outside the park who cared about them?

So Theresa's death is public, dealt with in that way. Fine.

Arnold's presumably was...but then nobody outside noticed that Ford had 'replaced' him with Bernard, or found that in any way objectionable?

Elsie has been a goner - or so we think - for I guess weeks now, and there's no external query? Inside the park people think she's on leave or something, but outsiders?

Then again, we don't really know what the outside world is like here. All the park employees seem to live and work in the park complex. But still, I have to imagine there are external connections...

We know these people live in the park for months-long cycles. Elsie' family isn't expecting her yet.
Arnold wasn't well known and nobody outside has probably ever seen Bernard. Why would he be allowed to leave the park?

 

[gofreak]

We know these people live in the park for months-long cycles. Elsie' family isn't expecting her yet.
Arnold wasn't well known and nobody outside has probably ever seen Bernard. Why would he be allowed to leave the park?

I guess under the following circumstances it can make sense:

Between Arnold's death and Bernard's creation there was a clean replacement of all park staff. I guess plausible enough if there were only a limited number of people working at the park at the time Arnold was there.

A complete censoring of all corporate media featuring Arnold, so no new staff would see anything about him. (Plausible)

Complete control over media recording in the park - to prevent any images of Bernard leaving the park and reaching people who may have known Arnold. Plausible, I guess - it seems Ford even created the phones/tablets in use in the park.

Zero behind-the-scenes media coverage at Westworld.

Serious vetting of any new hires to confirm no link with Arnold (possible, but hard to be 100% sure about this?) - again, to prevent any 'wtf' double-takes in anyone who encounters Bernard.

Ditto for visitors I guess? At least, if they let people into the park who knew Arnold, there's always that little risk they could run into a wandering Bernard. This would seem difficult to enforce.

It's a huge thing to cover. Not impossible, but also not something that's totally watertight for Ford.

 

[Zoe]

Arnold was reclusive and there was over a decade gap until Bernard's creation. We have no idea how well-known the company was during its beta phase.

 

[Joni]

I guess under the following circumstances it can make sense:

Between Arnold's death and Bernard's creation there was a clean replacement of all park staff. I guess plausible enough if there were only a limited number of people working at the park at the time Arnold was there.
--> Almost none as this was before the park opening.

A complete censoring of all corporate media featuring Arnold, so no new staff would see anything about him. (Plausible)
--> Before they were opening, so Ford just ran with all the credit, as is implied in conversations.

Complete control over media recording in the park - to prevent any images of Bernard leaving the park and reaching people who may have known Arnold. Plausible, I guess - it seems Ford even created the phones/tablets in use in the park.
--> Scrutiny of the employees,Bernard rarely sees guests.

Zero behind-the-scenes media coverage at Westworld.
--> Not that hard.

Serious vetting of any new hires to confirm no link with Arnold (possible, but hard to be 100% sure about this?) - again, to prevent any 'wtf' double-takes in anyone who encounters Bernard.
--> Not really a risk after a couple of years. People will just notice that he kinda looks like someone they knew. If you aren't that social, it might not even be that many people. Arnold might have lost his only son if

Ditto for visitors I guess? At least, if they let people into the park who knew Arnold, there's always that little risk they could run into a wandering Bernard. This would seem difficult to enforce.
--> Guests running into park personnel is already a big no-no.

It's a huge thing to cover. Not impossible, but also not something that's totally watertight for Ford.

Comments in line.

 

[Solo]

I believe you're mistaken here. I think she was always talking to Bernard and that she never actually talked to Arnold that we got to see. Arnold has been dead for 30 years so had she ever talked to him, she'd be a young lady at the time and she would likely recognize that Bernard looks just like him.

wat

 

[DorkLord54]

I just realized my two favorite shows of the year won't be back until 2018.

 

[bobbyrawlins]

lmao at moofers

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I just realized my two favorite shows of the year won't be back until 2018.

WestWorld isn't back till 2018? Why?

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

WestWorld isn't back till 2018? Why?

theories is cuz they waiting for GoT to wrap

also, maybe, more episodes

 

[ryutaro's mama]

theories is cuz they waiting for GoT to wrap

also, maybe, more episodes

If the ratings are what we have heard, I can't see HBO giving WW a two year lay off. People move on.

Wouldn't be surprised to see the second season fast tracked.

 

[okdakor]

I just realized my two favorite shows of the year won't be back until 2018.

We still have Vice Principals Season 2 in 2017

 

[Solo]

It's confirmed for 2018 by HBO. Shit takes time to get right, breh.

 

[-griffy-]

If the ratings are what we have heard, I can't see HBO giving WW a two year lay off. People move on.

Wouldn't be surprised to see the second season fast tracked.

Nah, they need time to write the second season. I think HBO learned their lesson about fast tracking a season 2 (True Detective).

 

[ryutaro's mama]

It's confirmed for 2018 by HBO. Shit takes time to get right, breh.

Ugh.

 

[otapnam]

We still have Vice Principals Season 2 in 2017

Can't wait for the darkness

 

[Solo]

Ugh.

Like griffy said, True Detective was a showcase in how to ruin your flagship show in no time due to rushing it.
I'm actually happy about 2018. The wait will kill me, for sure, but I know the final product will be so worth it.

 

[Alpende]

It's confirmed for 2018 by HBO. Shit takes time to get right, breh.

That's gonna be a long white, just like with Atalanta.

 

[Solo]

And I disagree about people moving on, ryu. If anything, 1.5 - 2 years to marinate in pop culture plus Bluray release and hyping up S2 will lead to a large increase in viewership in S2.

I can only imagine how many people aren't watching it now but will on BD based on WoM, and then it just feeds itself from there.

 

[therealist]

So I normally don't watch TV shows. The two shows I decide to watch this year were Atlanta and Westworld. Both of them won't be getting a second season until 2018. Great.

 

[Cornballer]

- NY Mag: A Simple Guide to Westworld&#8217;s Multiple Timelines
- Indiewire: &#8216;Westworld&#8217; Finale: Twists Can&#8217;t Answer Season 1&#8217;s Biggest Question

For a series focused on asking big questions about humanity, "Westworld" still needs to address some basic queries about its characters.

- Vanity Fair: Is Westworld Hiding One Last Maddening Twist?

What&#8217;s going on with Charlotte Hale?

- Digital Spy: 6 big questions that the season finale needs to answer
- Warming Glow: The Most Important Questions Heading Into The &#8216;Westworld&#8217; Season One Finale

 

[Cornballer]

- IndieWire Interview: Evan Rachel Wood on the &#8216;Westworld&#8217; Finale
- TVLine interview: Westworld's Jeffrey Wright Talks the Arnold Reveal

TVLINE | Talk to me about the subtle differences in the way you played Bernard and the way you played Arnold.

JW: Well, I think the differences existed in the writing of the two characters. So in some ways, the audience has been shown the answers to these mysteries from the beginning of the show. And I guess part of that difference is the result of the only time we see Arnold is when he&#8217;s engaging with Dolores, and there&#8217;s a very specific drive behind those scenes. For all those reasons, there&#8217;s a very subtle increase in warmth with him, even though Bernard is a warm character and an empathetic character. But with Arnold, it&#8217;s even more organic in some ways. And for me that just kind of reflected off of the writing. His blood is a little bit thicker. There&#8217;s just a slightly more groundedness and casualness and fatherliness to him, particularly relative to Dolores. To me, it just came off the page. I didn&#8217;t realize it until I was doing it, that there was a slight space between the two of them in their regard.

- Daily Beast interview: Thandie Newton


EDIT: Also, The Watch podcast for this week talks about Ep 9 and is worth a listen. The Westworld segment starts at about 23:00.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

- IndieWire Interview: Evan Rachel Wood on the ‘Westworld’ Finale
- TVLine interview: Westworld's Jeffrey Wright Talks the Arnold Reveal
- Daily Beast interview: Thandie Newton


EDIT: Also, The Watch podcast for this week talks about Ep 9 and is worth a listen. The Westworld segment starts at about 23:00.

Technically a spoiler? At least a confirmation that that's Bernard we're seeing with Dollorous all those times.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Like griffy said, True Detective was a showcase in how to ruin your flagship show in no time due to rushing it.
I'm actually happy about 2018. The wait will kill me, for sure, but I know the final product will be so worth it.

Yeah, True Detective is a great example as to why not to rush it but man...two years sucks.

 

[Cornballer]

- Matt Zoller Seitz interview: Michelle MacLaren on How to Direct a Complicated Show Like Westworld

Okay, then, here’s a question about one of those dynamic bits of Western visual grammar you love so much: In the scene where William (Jimmi Simpson) embraces his destiny and becomes a Black Hat and menaces his future brother-in-law Logan (Ben Barnes), you have some very, very low angles. The most striking is the moment where William is looming over Logan and threatening him with a knife; there’s a reverse angle from Logan’s perspective looking up at William that’s so low that the camera seems to be buried in the earth. And then at the end he rises up and it looks like he’s nine feet tall.

What we did there was actually take the actor that was supposed to be on the ground and raise him up and put him on a platform.

Interesting.

Well, you know, you don’t actually need to see the ground in that shot!

No, I guess you don’t!

I love that shot, and I’ve done it in different ways.

What are some of the ways?

Sometimes you dig a hole in the ground and put the camera in it. Other times you raise the actors up on a platform. It all depends on what’s available and how fast you need to get the shot.

And then there have been times where I’ve put the camera right on the ground and still gotten that shot, only you also get to see the ground in the shot. You just have to use a special lens that allows you to get the lens right flat on the ground, so the shot includes both the ground and the person above.

But putting the actor on a platform and raising him up about a foot is the fastest way to get that shot.

Much more via the link. Very interesting interview about technique from MacLaren.

 

[okdakor]

At least a confirmation that that's Bernard we're seeing with Dollorous all those times.

In this thread I've seen a lot of Deloris, some Delores and even Deloros... but Dollorous ? what is the problem with her name ? Is Dolores a super rare name in the US ?

 

[-griffy-]

Technically a spoiler? At least a confirmation that that's Bernard we're seeing with Dollorous all those times.

I believe that confirms it's Arnold we're seeing with Dolores all those times!