Support NeoGAF

[mattx5]

I think about death every night, sometimes I would go so deep into thought, that when I tried to get out of the endless spiral of fear that the concept of non-existence created, I would just start shaking and go nuts.

As of recent, every time it comes to my mind, I just block the thought with every ounce of energy I have.

It's a horribly terrifying thought, non existence, one that at the present moment, I'm not willing to face.

That's why I believe in a greater power. Though perhaps believe is the wrong word.

I HOPE that there is a greater power. I HOPE there is something after.

 

[UFC PRIDE]

Heh, death is easy. No one is ever going to die spiritually, maybe if your bad- I got a pretty good idea of what happens after you die. I'm Catholic - but I listen to a lot of theories and keep up with what happens - so I got a pretty good theory of what happens.

1) You die - or maybe not? At this point your kinda jammed outta your body because you either died or are close to dying - which is why ppl have near death experiences. Your spirit just gets removed from your body - and how your real world body holds up - you might go back living, or your just. Well if your dead you goto point two:

2) You see a light that stays open for approx 3 days - you can choose to go in it, or not, its your choice. You can hang around on earth as long as you want as a ghost, or go into the light. You hang around though with ppl, they end up getting sick and stuff from electromagnetic disturbance - so most ppl just give it up and goto the light. You don't go in that time frame, your essentially stuck until someone or something opens the light back up for you again.

3) Once you go into the light, its pretty much dealers choice. You can either be sent somewhere else, another plane of existence, your judged, then sent to one of these planes (hell/heaven, stuff in between, back to earth as a ghost, another existence, whatever), or you could even be reincarnated and go back as someone else. I'm guessing you go through the spin cycle a few times before you hit the end - kinda waiting in the bullpen to be called up somewhere or another.

4) You get back on earth, or whatever your supposed to do, as an entity or reincarnated; go back to step 1 and repeat until the big guy upstairs administration decides that your better off somewhere else, or you hit the end road and stay there in some sort of heaven or hell or in between, or you take a break and come back later whenever the administration upstairs decides its a good time to.

Yeah thats pretty much it - hate to make it sound anti-climatic for the atheists or something out there - but thats how it is, in a quick summary. There's other cool deals like the fact that animals and stuff go through it to, and how you look the same after you die, but look different once you go through the light, and whatever. But hey, if your all into the 'once you die, its all over' thingie - I'm sure you can broker a dead with the head honchos upstairs and they can set you up - but I dunno why you'dd wanna do that though.

 

[The Shadow]

I have a pretty good idea of what it's like to die.

When you go to bed, do you "feel" like you're in the act of sleep or is the next memory of you waking up? For 8 hours a night, your concious mind has no memory of actually working.

That's of course ignoring the fact that you remember dreams every now and then. But what about the nights that you don't? How does it feel to sleep? What do you experience when you sleep? Nothing. That's what death is like.

 

[AssMan]

We are all living a dream...like Spike Spiegal!

 

[Ar_]

There are scientific explanations for that. Can't remember what exactly they are, tho.

My opinion? Nothing happens. Your brain shuts down and you lose your self-consciousness for the rest of eternity. Comfortable? Optimistic? No. Realistic? Logical? Yes.

I find it as much "realistic" and "logical" as claiming that the Earth is flat, because if it was round people would fall down of it.
Having only a minimal knowledge of the nature of the universe, excluding the existance of everything outside such tiny understanding is not "realism", but ignorance.
It means excluding the existance of what we dont know, and I think there are far more real and unknown facets of the universe than know ones.
It is the "logical" conclusion archieved from the observation of whoefully incomplete and imperfect data, and lacking the little wisdom necessary to acknowledge that the data you have is far too limited to allow reaching a conclusion on this matter.
Let me repeat: according to the data once available, it was "realistic" and "logic" - in a shortsighted perspective - to think the earth was flat.
Today, we still know almost nothing. True Realism is acknowleging the limits of our knowledge, far too lacking, to allow reaching some realistically accurate conclusions in many areas.

Here is a small challenge for you:

If you think that shutting down your brain will end your consciousness, and you dont believe in the existance of an indipendent conscious soul which was united with the body, then the conclusion is that the cosciousness must be a PRODUCT of matter and the energy in it.

Consciousness being a product of matter and energy, in other words means that consciousness is always potentially present in them.
It means that consciousness, energy, and matter, are ultimately all the same thing in different states. Just like matter and energy are today considered to be the same in different states.
As matter can be converted into energy, and the opposite is also considered true (thought we lack technological means to perform such conversions ourselves, in most istances), matter and energy should also be convertible in consciousness (it happens in the brain, if we are to believe to a logical analysis starting from your ideas); again, the opposite also appears to be theorically possible: consciousness can be converted in energy and matter.

Now, have you stopped to try considering the full ramification of this?

For one, since the laws of nature continuously "recycle" all matter and energy in the earth and universe in different structures, either inanimate objects, vegetable life, animal and humal life, and possibly others that go above our perception and knowledge,
would be possible for your consciousness to be "recycled" - slighty dofferent from "reincarnated" - in another (living or not) form as well.
Maybe along with some of the matter and energy that were once constituting the construct that you are now, or maybe mixed with those constituting what is today your worse enemy.
From this point of view, death would end the individuality of a life amd consciousness, but not its existance.

A note about some limits of out knowledge.
We cant see structures made of pure magnetism, or energy, or cosciousness, or a combimation of them, though we know of the existance of at least some of them.
Neither we dont know how many subtles structures may exist. We can measure magnetism and some forms of energy to an extent, but how many subtler "structures" do still exist unknow to man?
So we cant know if consciousness is at some time transported or recycled in some form beyond our knowledge - maybe something similiar to what is considered a "ghost".

Explaining more: Matter, energy, and consciousness should be the same thing in different forms.
Matter is found in a state that, to human eyes, is "pure": apparently completely devoid of the energy and consciousness aspects.
Same is true for energy, it is found without manifesting the aspects of physical matter and consciousness.
Same, is most likely similiarly true for consciousness: that it also may exist in a state devoid from the "matter" and "energy" aspects. What you may call a spirit.

We dont know if there is something superior and more "conscious" - for lack of a better word - above consciousness as we know it, either.
Something as much or more above the limits of human understanding, as the human consciousness is in relation to the understanding ability manifested in a rock.
This would be what you may call a God, or at least superior being. Maybe living in an incarnated (consiousness + energy + eventually mattter aspects present togheter) structure somewhere, maybe in pure consciousness form.

A rock cant move by its own power.
A plant has limited ability to react to external conditions, and can perform conversions between matter and energy.
Human consciousnes, to a limited extent, is able to consciously control such energy / matter conversions, as in tensing a muscle.
As consciousness becomes more evolved, also its power to affect energy and matter seems to increase. Who knows what the limits may be, for an eventual form of disincarnated (thus not confided within a limited space) and higher consciousness?

Our solar system may be a single "atom" of what may be considered a single universal body, under complete control of a perfect consciousness abiding in it, of which the consciousness of every man is nothing more than individualized reflections, limited by a form - like individual "thoughts" inside a single superior mind.

Maybe consciousness, energy and body are all the same; maybe the whole universe will ultimately evolve and fuse in the form of a single and pure consciousness, or maybe thats how it initially was.

But that "death = the end" is extrame and unrealistic oversimplification, when we dont know so many of the laws governing the world.
From the little we know, might be more plausible to assume than our consciousness follows cycle similiar to that of out bodyes and everything in this world - being recycled in new forms.

As Consciousness exists in this world, it cant be dismissed so easily, as if insignificant in the great scheme of universal existence, as a rare gem in a sea of physical matter.
The existance of consciousness is as radicated and fundamental in the nature of this universe, as is that of matter.
Amusingly, some people think of matter being what the universe is really about and made of, and consciousness as some form of "guest" came from no idea where and suddenly poofing into nothingness.
But I dont believe in consciousness simply disappearing at some point, just like matter and energy dont simply disappear in nothingness, thought they may change form - potentially to ones we are unable to perceive.
Energy, for example heat, tends to "dissipate" faster; it doesnt disappear, simply diffuse so widely and consequentially "thin" to the point of becoming too subtle for our ability to perceive or measure it.
Similiar goes for consciousness, the only problem is our extremely limited ability to perceive and measure it when on its own.

Im positive that will come a day when people, due deeper understanding and improved ability to perceive or measure pure consciousness, will laugh at the idea of it being unable to exist without a physical shelter; just like today we would laugh at the suggestion that energy cant exist without a physical form.

-------------

Time for a pause. I dont actually think everything I said is correct. Those conjectures had in part the purpose of being "easily" digerible food-for-further-thought.

I believe in reincarnation.

Also in the existance of subtler structures and worlds other than physical ones - and science has at least recognized the existance of some of them, like magnetism and light, isnt such a huge step to assume they might interact wich each other in an ordinated manner, like matter and everything does in the universe, to form a different kind non-physical "world" where evolution and consciousness are also possible.
Actually, given the much faster rate of "movement" of energy and subtler waves compared to physical form, they would seem more apt to evolution than the physical world is.

I believe in universal evolution, on the perfect power that consciousness can archieve over matter, ecc, but Im afraid this would be too complex to try explain - and of course is not like my understanding is anywhere close to perfection, either.

If you read this all, I want to give you a medal. Please forgive some eventual confusion, Im too tired to read this all again carefully, myself, right now.

 

[isamu]

I find it as much "realistic" and "logical" as claiming that the Earth is flat, because if it was round people would fall down of it.
Having only a minimal knowledge of the nature of the universe, excluding the existance of everything outside such tiny understanding is not "realism", but ignorance.
It means excluding the existance of what we dont know, and I think there are far more real and unknown facets of the universe than know ones.
It is the "logical" conclusion archieved from the observation of whoefully incomplete and imperfect data, and lacking the little wisdom necessary to acknowledge that the data you have is far too limited to allow reaching a conclusion on this matter.
Let me repeat: according to the data once available, it was "realistic" and "logic" - in a shortsighted perspective - to think the earth was flat.
Today, we still know almost nothing. True Realism is acknowleging the limits of our knowledge, far too lacking, to allow reaching some realistically accurate conclusions in many areas.

Here is a small challenge for you:

If you think that shutting down your brain will end your consciousness, and you dont believe in the existance of an indipendent conscious soul which was united with the body, then the conclusion is that the cosciousness must be a PRODUCT of matter and the energy in it.

Consciousness being a product of matter and energy, in other words means that consciousness is always potentially present in them.
It means that consciousness, energy, and matter, are ultimately all the same thing in different states. Just like matter and energy are today considered to be the same in different states.
As matter can be converted into energy, and the opposite is also considered true (thought we lack technological means to perform such conversions ourselves, in most istances), matter and energy should also be convertible in consciousness (it happens in the brain, if we are to believe to a logical analysis starting from your ideas); again, the opposite also appears to be theorically possible: consciousness can be converted in energy and matter.

Now, have you stopped to try considering the full ramification of this?

For one, since the laws of nature continuously "recycle" all matter and energy in the earth and universe in different structures, either inanimate objects, vegetable life, animal and humal life, and possibly others that go above our perception and knowledge,
would be possible for your consciousness to be "recycled" - slighty dofferent from "reincarnated" - in another (living or not) form as well.
Maybe along with some of the matter and energy that were once constituting the construct that you are now, or maybe mixed with those constituting what is today your worse enemy.
From this point of view, death would end the individuality of a life amd consciousness, but not its existance.

A note about some limits of out knowledge.
We cant see structures made of pure magnetism, or energy, or cosciousness, or a combimation of them, though we know of the existance of at least some of them.
Neither we dont know how many subtles structures may exist. We can measure magnetism and some forms of energy to an extent, but how many subtler "structures" do still exist unknow to man?
So we cant know if consciousness is at some time transported or recycled in some form beyond our knowledge - maybe something similiar to what is considered a "ghost".

Explaining more: Matter, energy, and consciousness should be the same thing in different forms.
Matter is found in a state that, to human eyes, is "pure": apparently completely devoid of the energy and consciousness aspects.
Same is true for energy, it is found without manifesting the aspects of physical matter and consciousness.
Same, is most likely similiarly true for consciousness: that it also may exist in a state devoid from the "matter" and "energy" aspects. What you may call a spirit.

We dont know if there is something superior and more "conscious" - for lack of a better word - above consciousness as we know it, either.
Something as much or more above the limits of human understanding, as the human consciousness is in relation to the understanding ability manifested in a rock.
This would be what you may call a God, or at least superior being. Maybe living in an incarnated (consiousness + energy + eventually mattter aspects present togheter) structure somewhere, maybe in pure consciousness form.

A rock cant move by its own power.
A plant has limited ability to react to external conditions, and can perform conversions between matter and energy.
Human consciousnes, to a limited extent, is able to consciously control such energy / matter conversions, as in tensing a muscle.
As consciousness becomes more evolved, also its power to affect energy and matter seems to increase. Who knows what the limits may be, for an eventual form of disincarnated (thus not confided within a limited space) and higher consciousness?

Our solar system may be a single "atom" of what may be considered a single universal body, under complete control of a perfect consciousness abiding in it, of which the consciousness of every man is nothing more than individualized reflections, limited by a form - like individual "thoughts" inside a single superior mind.

Maybe consciousness, energy and body are all the same; maybe the whole universe will ultimately evolve and fuse in the form of a single and pure consciousness, or maybe thats how it initially was.

But that "death = the end" is extrame and unrealistic oversimplification, when we dont know so many of the laws governing the world.
From the little we know, might be more plausible to assume than our consciousness follows cycle similiar to that of out bodyes and everything in this world - being recycled in new forms.

As Consciousness exists in this world, it can be dismissed so easily, as if insignificant in the great scheme of universal existence, as a rare gem in a sea of physical matter.
The existance of consciousness is as radicated and fundamental in the nature of this universe, as is that of matter.
Amusingly, some people think of matter being what the universe is really about and made of, and consciousness as some form of "guest" came from no idea where and suddenly poofing into nothingness.
But I dont believe in consciousness simply disappearing at some point, just like matter and energy dont simply disappear in nothingness, thought they may change form - potentially to ones we are unable to perceive.
Energy, for example heat, tends to "dissipate" faster; it doesnt disappear, simply diffuse so widely and consequentially "thin" to the point of becoming too subtle for our ability to perceive or measure it.
Similiar goes for consciousness, the only problem is our extremely limited ability to perceive and measure it when on its own.

Im positive that will come a day when people, due deeper understanding and improved ability to perceive or measure pure consciousness, will laugh at the idea of it being unable to exist without a physical shelter; just like today we would laugh at the suggestion that energy cant exist without a physical form.

-------------

Time for a pause. I dont actually think everything I said is correct. Those conjectures had in part the purpose of being "easily" digerible food-for-further-thought.

I believe in reincarnation.

Also in the existance of subtler structures and worlds other than physical ones - and science has at least recognized the existance of some of them, like magnetism and light, isnt such a huge step to assume they might interact wich each other in an ordinated manner, like matter and everything does in the universe, to form a different kind non-physical "world" where evolution and consciousness are also possible.
Actually, given the much faster rate of "movement" of energy and subtler waves compared to physical form, they would seem more apt to evolution than the physical world is.

I believe in universal evolution, on the perfect power that consciousness can archieve over matter, ecc, but Im afraid this would be too complex to try explain - and of course is not like my understanding is anywhere close to perfection, either.

If you read this all, I want to give you a medal. Please forgive some eventual confusion, Im too tired to read this all again carefully, myself, right now.

God DAAAAYUM dawg!!!!!!

 

[Lathentar]

I used to really focus on the afterlife, then one day when I was 11 or 12 I thought about a scenario where science found a way to freeze a body and revitalize it 2000 years later. What would happen? Would my soul in heaven be sucked back into my body? arghhhhhhhhhhh!

You wouldn't be dead though. Just in a 2000 year frozen sleep.

 

[Midas]

That's of course ignoring the fact that you remember dreams every now and then. But what about the nights that you don't? How does it feel to sleep? What do you experience when you sleep? Nothing. That's what death is like.

It's nice to sleep. Maybe death is nice too?

 

[Baron Aloha]

A friend of mine had a near death experience (plus I've seen some pretty unbelievable stuff myself) and I just want to say that you people who are saying that once you die that's it - well you're fucking wrong. There are things in this world that we have yet to fully understand and the afterlife is certainly one of them.

It was summer and my friend dove head first into the deep end of a built in pool but she hit her head on the bottom and broke her neck. We pulled her up and called 9-1-1. She was out cold the entire time. The doctors stabilized her and she was in a coma for 3 days. When she woke up she told us what she saw and it was pretty shocking. She knew exactly who pulled her out of the water. She knew all the things that her mother was screaming while we tried to save her. She knew who ran into the house to call the ambulance. She said that she saw all of it and that she had seen it by looking down on us from above. She said that she felt like she was just floating there and that she couldn't move. She then saw a white light and that was the last thing she had seen before she woke up from the coma. Now there is just no way she could have known this information. She was comatose and even if she was able to hear things she wouldn't have been able to know who pulled her out or who ran into the house. Her mother swore that she didn't tell her any of the details and that she woke up and told her first and I believe her.

As for what I've seen? Well I've seen ghosts and angels on several occasions (and for you smart asses, no I wasn't on drugs or anything like that). I believe that the angel that I've seen is my guardian angel. Both times that I saw her it was pretty similar. Basically, I was outside by myself and all of the sudden there was complete silence. It was as if the entire world stood still or as if someone had frozen time. From a great distance away I heard the sound of a horse running and I could hear it getting closer, and closer until suddenly the angel would appear riding the horse. The first time I saw her she just rode by me. The second time she stopped, got off the horse and hugged me, and rode off. I haven't seen her since.

I also used to live in a haunted house and I had more than my fair share of run ins there. Also, once an old girlfriend and I stayed in one of those haunted B&Bs in Pennsylvania and we saw one there too. We heard weird noises all night and at first we thought it might not be a real ghost and that it might just be the owners putting on a show but she woke me up in the middle of the night scared to death and when I looked there was a man standing right next to me as I laid in bed. I fucking jumped to the ceiling and turned on the light and he was gone. We packed our shit and left right then and there.

 

[MrPing1000]

I think about death every night, sometimes I would go so deep into thought, that when I tried to get out of the endless spiral of fear that the concept of non-existence created, I would just start shaking and go nuts.

As of recent, every time it comes to my mind, I just block the thought with every ounce of energy I have.

It's a horribly terrifying thought, non existence, one that at the present moment, I'm not willing to face.

That's why I believe in a greater power. Though perhaps believe is the wrong word.

I HOPE that there is a greater power. I HOPE there is something after.

Your not alone mattx5. I just find it extremely hard to believe, the rational person and depressed person inside me says, your worm food. But a part of me hopes so much that there is something after, anything else is just scary, extremely scary

 

[ruffles]

It was summer and my friend dove head first into the deep end of a built in pool but she hit her head on the bottom and broke her neck. We pulled her up and called 9-1-1. She was out cold the entire time. The doctors stabilized her and she was in a coma for 3 days. When she woke up she told us what she saw and it was pretty shocking. She knew exactly who pulled her out of the water. She knew all the things that her mother was screaming while we tried to save her. She knew who ran into the house to call the ambulance. She said that she saw all of it and that she had seen it by looking down on us from above. She said that she felt like she was just floating there and that she couldn't move. She then saw a white light and that was the last thing she had seen before she woke up from the coma. Now there is just no way she could have known this information. She was comatose and even if she was able to hear things she wouldn't have been able to know who pulled her out or who ran into the house. Her mother swore that she didn't tell her any of the details and that she woke up and told her first and I believe her.

Whoa, that's pretty deep.

 

[slayn]

I know whats gonna hapen to me, I have already promised my friends that they are allowed to kick me in the balls after I die. Now there is no more mystery.

 

[aku:jiki]

I'm pretty sure I believe nothing happens, like falling asleep. It'd be nice to believe in something more uplifting, but it's hard. If God's out there, he's more than welcome to surprise me!

I'll tell you one thing, though. I want to die when I'm concious. Dying in your sleep has to be the very ultimate ripoff. Not only do you have to die, but you don't even (finally) get to know what dying is like. Fuck that! If I gotta go, I at least want to know for that split second before I fade out.

 

[slayn]

I'd have to imagine that dying while you're alive is like when they put you under for an operation. You don't ever feel like anythign is gonna happen, you don't feel like you are falling asleep lik eyou do in bed. You're talking... and then you wake up.

 

[slayn]

this thread made me remember, I always thought it would be sweet if reincarnation were the "truth" of the matter, but the guy in charge fucked up, and then you come back with all your memories but are the only one to do so. But then no one believes you, but you get to scare the shit out of people by knowing how to talk and do stuff before you are even a year old... and if there was a gap you could look at your grandpa and he started to say, "when I was young," you could look him in the eyes and truthfully say, "when I was young you weren't born bitch, so shut your face." and so on =)

 

[OmniGamer]

Another thing...why does "God" have a gender?

 

[shuri]

I feel sorry for people like you. It's unfortunate that you were brought up this way. If you had an ounce of rational thought and did some research, you'd see that it is impossible for the world to have been created without some form of devine entity.

God is all powerful and I am going to tell you this for your own good....

You *will* be judged one day and if you dont change your ways and beliefs, you will reap what you sow. That is all I have to say.

"Rational thinking" and "the world has been created by some form of devine entity" in the same sentence? I stopped reading there!

She knew all the things that her mother was screaming while we tried to save her. She knew who ran into the house to call the ambulance. She said that she saw all of it and that she had seen it by looking down on us from above. She said that she felt like she was just floating there and that she couldn't move. She then saw a white light and that was the last thing she had seen before she woke up from the coma.

That or she wasnt 100% knocked out. It's kinda of like when you are drunk or just about to fall asleep. Your brain passively records stuff.

 

[Baron Aloha]

That or she wasnt 100% knocked out. It's kinda of like when you are drunk or just about to fall asleep. Your brain passively records stuff.

I was there dude. She was out cold. That kinda has the tendancy to happen when you hit your head and break your neck. And how do you explain her saying she was looking down on us?

 

[Mumbles]

A friend of mine had a near death experience (plus I've seen some pretty unbelievable stuff myself) and I just want to say that you people who are saying that once you die that's it - well you're fucking wrong. There are things in this world that we have yet to fully understand and the afterlife is certainly one of them.

Let's put it this way - I don't trust reports of people who are in altered states of mind. Near-dead is about as altered as a person can get. And while I don't want to insult you, people that are horrified about something that just happened to their friend aren't in top mental shape, either. Furthermore, most people I know can't even remember conversations clearly when they're at their mental best, so I have to doubt that your near-dead friend could remember accurately what her mother was screaming.

As for the rest - I've been to supposedly haunted houses, met people who said they could predict my future, and on and on. I didn't notice anything peculiar to any of it. *shrug* so yeah, I'll say I'm skeptical of all supernatural claims. Bring a ghost over, find me a real psychic, and I'll start to rethink things.

 

[Neutron Night]

A friend of mine had a near death experience (plus I've seen some pretty unbelievable stuff myself) and I just want to say that you people who are saying that once you die that's it - well you're fucking wrong. There are things in this world that we have yet to fully understand and the afterlife is certainly one of them.

It was summer and my friend dove head first into the deep end of a built in pool but she hit her head on the bottom and broke her neck. We pulled her up and called 9-1-1. She was out cold the entire time. The doctors stabilized her and she was in a coma for 3 days. When she woke up she told us what she saw and it was pretty shocking. She knew exactly who pulled her out of the water. She knew all the things that her mother was screaming while we tried to save her. She knew who ran into the house to call the ambulance. She said that she saw all of it and that she had seen it by looking down on us from above. She said that she felt like she was just floating there and that she couldn't move. She then saw a white light and that was the last thing she had seen before she woke up from the coma. Now there is just no way she could have known this information. She was comatose and even if she was able to hear things she wouldn't have been able to know who pulled her out or who ran into the house. Her mother swore that she didn't tell her any of the details and that she woke up and told her first and I believe her.

As for what I've seen? Well I've seen ghosts and angels on several occasions (and for you smart asses, no I wasn't on drugs or anything like that). I believe that the angel that I've seen is my guardian angel. Both times that I saw her it was pretty similar. Basically, I was outside by myself and all of the sudden there was complete silence. It was as if the entire world stood still or as if someone had frozen time. From a great distance away I heard the sound of a horse running and I could hear it getting closer, and closer until suddenly the angel would appear riding the horse. The first time I saw her she just rode by me. The second time she stopped, got off the horse and hugged me, and rode off. I haven't seen her since.

I also used to live in a haunted house and I had more than my fair share of run ins there. Also, once an old girlfriend and I stayed in one of those haunted B&Bs in Pennsylvania and we saw one there too. We heard weird noises all night and at first we thought it might not be a real ghost and that it might just be the owners putting on a show but she woke me up in the middle of the night scared to death and when I looked there was a man standing right next to me as I laid in bed. I fucking jumped to the ceiling and turned on the light and he was gone. We packed our shit and left right then and there.

The first two paragraphs were interesting. Too bad you blew it with the last two. I hope you weren't serious.

Ar: There's a problem. You describe "conciousness" as if it were comparable to matter and energy. It isn't. Everyting in the universe is matter and energy. "Conciousness" is an abstract concept invented by humans, like love or justice. Your conciousness consists of electrochemical reactions inside your brain. It is another form of matter and energy. Potentially in the future, we'll have the technology to read thoughts. We can already change minds by using drugs. Does that change your "soul"?

You're right that we are "reincarnated" in the sense that the matter and energy that compose our bodies don't go anywhere. They just cease to exist as a human biological system. Everything is made of molecules, which are made up of atoms, which are made up of protons, neutrons (hehe) and electrons, which are made up of quarks and whatnot. The difference between you and a rock is that you have a different arrangment of particles.

A note about some limits of out knowledge.
We cant see structures made of pure magnetism, or energy, or cosciousness, or a combimation of them, though we know of the existance of at least some of them.
Neither we dont know how many subtles structures may exist. We can measure magnetism and some forms of energy to an extent, but how many subtler "structures" do still exist unknow to man?
So we cant know if consciousness is at some time transported or recycled in some form beyond our knowledge - maybe something similiar to what is considered a "ghost".

Again you're making a mistake. Magnetism, energy, etc., are purely physical concepts. Conciousness is an abstract concept. We could theoretically create an android that had the same "conciousness" as a human being. Would he go to heaven or be reincarnated?

This would be what you may call a God, or at least superior being.

Define "superior". This is another abstract concept created by humans. Superiority is not an absolute. Do you mean more complex? More moral? More powerful? All of the above? The color blue "superior" to the color red? This is not a scientific concept.

I feel sorry for people like you. It's unfortunate that you were brought up this way. If you had an ounce of rational thought and did some research, you'd see that it is impossible for the world to have been created without some form of devine entity.

God is all powerful and I am going to tell you this for your own good....

You *will* be judged one day and if you dont change your ways and beliefs, you will reap what you sow. That is all I have to say.

Two things:

1. Define "devine entity". If you realize that is a misspelling, define "divine entity".

2. Which God are you talking about? How do you know anything about God? If you're talking about the Christian God, don't even get me started.

 

[Chrono]

I feel sorry for people like you. It's unfortunate that you were brought up this way. If you had an ounce of rational thought and did some research, you'd see that it is impossible for the world to have been created without some form of devine entity.

God is all powerful and I am going to tell you this for your own good....

You *will* be judged one day and if you dont change your ways and beliefs, you will reap what you sow. That is all I have to say.

Wow.. so this "god" of yours gives me a brain and shows me an idiot like yourself warning me that if I don't believe in something that can't be substantiated by the brain he gave me I'll go and suffer in this after life? This god sure is merciful and loving.

You (and your god), 90% of religious freeks, and dicators are all insecure people who think by screaming louder or hating and secluding others more it makes you right. Or at least gives you the illusion of you being right.



and please show us, using your ounce + of rational thought, how could this universie exist without your god? and I'm talking about the christian god as it's obvious that's what you mean.

 

[DopeyFish]

Wow.. so this "god" of yours gives me a brain and shows me an idiot like yourself warning me that if I don't believe in something that can't be substantiated by the brain he gave me I'll go and suffer in this after life? This god sure is merciful and loving.

You (and your god), 90% of religious freeks, and dicators are all insecure people who think by screaming louder or hating and secluding others more it makes you right. Or at least gives you the illusion of you being right.



and please show us, using your ounce + of rational thought, how could this universie exist without your god? and I'm talking about the christian god as it's obvious that's what you mean.

There is scientific theories, and there's religious beliefs.

No one knows for sure what is right.

 

[teh_pwn]

"You're right that we are "reincarnated" in the sense that the matter and energy that compose our bodies don't go anywhere. They just cease to exist as a human biological system. Everything is made of molecules, which are made up of atoms, which are made up of protons, neutrons (hehe) and electrons, which are made up of quarks and whatnot. The difference between you and a rock is that you have a different arrangment of particles."


That's interesting, because I've thought about the same idea. Except then I thought are we the same person everyday? If conciousness is merely matter and energy, part of us is shitted out everyday and a new part takes over when we eat. Crazy stuff.

 

[Neutron Night]

That's interesting, because I've thought about the same idea. Except then I thought are we the same person everyday? If conciousness is merely matter and energy, part of us is shitted out everyday and a new part takes over when we eat. Crazy stuff.

That's because it's all about the arrangment, not the actual matter. I remember hearing that our bodies completely recycle every 7 years, that you are composed of different material than you were 7 years ago. Weird, isn't it?

 

[slayn]

That's because it's all about the arrangment, not the actual matter. I remember hearing that our bodies completely recycle every 7 years, that you are composed of different material than you were 7 years ago. Weird, isn't it?

except for the brain right? Isn't it impossible for your body to create new brain cells?

 

[Docpan]

This stuff is all bullshit stories to calm people down and give them a reason to live through all this stuff.

When you die, that's it.

And you know this.... How?

Have you died before?

 

[UFC PRIDE]

Hey I hope you people claiming science as a basis for atheism also realize that science has recently discovered there is upwards of 13 dimensions/planes of existence other than our own. LoL. It's funny the more science comes along the more it agrees with others experiences.

 

[Chrono]

Hey I hope you people claiming science as a basis for atheism also realize that science has recently discovered there is upwards of 13 dimensions/planes of existence other than our own. LoL. It's funny the more science comes along the more it agrees with others experiences.

What kind of experiences? and what scientific discoveries that agree with those experiences?

There has been experiments that showed som one in a dark room, with a few electric charges here and there on their heads, will dream of being abducted by aliens. Grey aliens with beards.

There is scientific theories, and there's religious beliefs.

No one knows for sure what is right.

I did not say I know. I replied to his post saying he has NO PROOF on this divine entity that he believes in. I guess I got carried away cuz frankly that post made me sick. How could some people think they are "saved," because of something so trivial, and others will suffer eternally and still sleep at night is something I'll never understand.

 

[Mumbles]

Hey I hope you people claiming science as a basis for atheism also realize that science has recently discovered there is upwards of 13 dimensions/planes of existence other than our own. LoL. It's funny the more science comes along the more it agrees with others experiences.

I'm not at all sure how the hypothetical existence of other dimensions (using the scientific definition, rather than the sci-fi one) points to the existence of anything usually regarded as supernatural.

Also, my atheism isn't based on any particular scientific theory (which don't even address the issue), it's based on the complete lack of the evidence I would expect to find if gods did exist, the wild disagreement among religions, and the fact that the people I've seen tend to worship gods that suit their personalities. I have no choice but to conclude that gods are fictional beings created by humans, and do not exist in reality. I can only speculate on why people invent or believe in them, since I can't remember ever believing in them myself (*despite* my christian upbringing, isamu).

But that's not really related to the discussion, which was about the afterlife. Religions tend to tie the two together, but one is not required or the other.

 

[Ar_]

Ar: There's a problem. You describe "conciousness" as if it were comparable to matter and energy. It isn't. Everyting in the universe is matter and energy. "Conciousness" is an abstract concept invented by humans, like love or justice. Your conciousness consists of electrochemical reactions inside your brain. It is another form of matter and energy. Potentially in the future, we'll have the technology to read thoughts.

Friend, there is quite a mix of contradictory thoughts in your mind.
You claim that consciousness is a different form of matter and energy, and then the opposite, than it is not comparable to them, that everything is matter and energy alone and consciousness is an abstract concept.

Being a different form of matter and energy, means consciousness is as "real" or "abstract" as they are, and as a fundamental material of which the universe is constructed as they are.

Consciousness can be considered "abstract" as in non-physical-matter, but not as not-existant.
Aside the obvious interior proof, is easy to logically understand that consciousness is not more abstract than Time, Space, Light, or even Physical Matter.
Time or Space are definitely immaterial but Real: if they werent real, neither could be real the matter as we experience it, since it is radicated in them.
Consciousness isnt more abstract than matter: the error lies in distinguing them in "abstract and "not abstract" in base of a mere subjective perspective.
Subjective, because you are founding your distinction merely on the facility with which you are able to perceive each them - perceptions which are far from complete.

You perceive matter more than consciousness, you are concentrated more on matter, so you consider matter more real.
To a blind and deaf and tact-less man, matter may seem abstract, while consciousness the only reality, since is that HE can perceive better.
Fact is every man is blind to a lot of things. "Abstract" then becomes a subjective idea that only determines what your senses and understanding are most blind to, not a measurement of its existance.
To a "ghost", consciousness and energy would proably feel more tangible, while physical matter may be "abstract" to him. Same to a man who has slept for all his life.
To an ant, energy may be an "abstract" concept, since not understandable and measurable - to HIM.
Dont make the mistake to think that your own perceptions arent lacking in a number of unknown-to-you ways, like those of the ant, the sleeping man, the deaf, and so on.

If consciousness can be "produced" in a brain from matter, then it is, just like energy, just another "form" of matter.
Matter, energy, consciousness, would all be the same thing in different forms.
At times some of these forms are manifest at the same time; also, they can be manifest separately.
As it can manifest as Pure Matter, without manifesting (to human senses) the aspects of consciousness and energy; as Pure Energy, without manifesting the aspects of matter and consciousness; then most likely also can similiarly be manifest as Pure Consciousness, without manifesting the aspects of matter and energy: a "spirit".

FOOD FOR THOUGHT:
We cant claim that matter is more real that consciousness, because we can experience matter only by means of consciousness.
If consciousness isnt real, then probably neither is real what consciousness experiences (matter).
There is no proof of existance of matter, other that which is given from consciousness, so the validity of existance of matter is subject to the validity of the existance of consciousness.
On the contrary, the idea of the existance of consciousness is not subject to the existance of matter, because consciousness gives testimoniance of itself to itself.
In extreme conjectures, matter may be an illusion, a "reading error" in the machine of consciosness, a dreamy perception. Matter may not exist, but consciousness surely does

Ultimately, from a quite common scientific-religious view, consciousness is the ONLY real thing there is.
Energy, Matter, Space, Time, are nothing more than "dream" ideas born out of the single consciousness defined as "God".

We can already change minds by using drugs. Does that change your "soul"?

Changes its manifested state, but not its nature.
You can compare Consciousness to water, and the mind to the shape of the bottle it fills, or maybe some pigments mixed in it.
Consciousness is a pure testimony. The things it gives testimoniance to, included the thoughts contained in a mind, are not the consciousness, but external objects.
The distincion is often hard to realize because consciousness thakes the shape of its container, in other words, being pure testimony, tends to identify with the objects it sees.
Which also explains why people who have a strong atraction towards material things, who think often of them, believe that matter, and not consciousness, is the greater Reality.
They are Consciousness, but mostly identified with Matter by (mis)use of consciousness own power of being testimony.

Again you're making a mistake. Magnetism, energy, etc., are purely physical concepts. Conciousness is an abstract concept.

No, you are wrong.
Magnetism, that you mentioned, makes an easy example.
Magnetism is no more "physical" than consciousness is, from a common human perspective (Ill ignore some subtler distinctions that can be made).
Magnetism can exist where physical matter is (mostly) not present, like in deep space.
How is it then more physical than consciousness, which you think can exist only if fused with physical matter (a brain)?
Magnetism can interact with Matter in some istances, and consciousness also can; magnetism can also exist without matter in others circumstances, on what basis you claim that consciousness cant do the same?

Lets do an (over)semplification:

Physical matter, by interacting with itself in accordance to specific laws, can form complex structures which eventually become what we call "planets" and "worlds".

+

Energy is matter in a different state, a different form of matter

+

Energy can exist without matter (in other words, "manifesting" in "pure" form)

=

Is extremely likely that some other kinds of energy (than the one "frozen" in matter) can also interact with each other and form ordinated structures, thus creating evolving "worlds", which are devoid of physical matter.

+

Consciousness is "distilled" from matter (according to the "unbeliever" doctrine, usually in the brain)

+

Again, matter and energy are basically the same

=

May be well possible to "distill" consciousness from pure energy as well

=

In those previously mentioned worlds made of pure energy, may exist conscious "life"forms.

=

Not really that different from what is called a Heaven, minus the superstitions about what is supposedly present in it (eternal joy, human food, or whatever).

=

Cant exclude that human consciousness is sometime recycled in such a structure.

In other words:
Is plausible and likely that exist structures and worlds made of forms of "matter" (energy) too subtle for our perceptions, but nonetheless ordinately functioning in accordance to natural laws, like everything we know in the universe.
Is also plausible that consciousness, being immaterial, can be contained in such worlds as well and maybe even better than it can within the physical structures we see here.
After all, consciousness has a greater affinity to subtle energy than gross matter; in the human body, various form of energy are the intermediary links between the consciousness and matter, like the nervous impulses to bring muscolar contraction.
A body of pure energy should be very fit for consciousness, and may posses "senses" able to perceive other structures of similiar pure energy.

We could theoretically create an android that had the same "conciousness" as a human being. Would he go to heaven or be reincarnated?

Not exactly.
You can "easily" create an artificial mind that imitates the behaviour of the human one, like you can build a stone statue that imitates the sembiances of the human body.
But a mere imitation of behaviour wouldnt make that construct of matter suddenly develop a consciousness, or ability to give testimoniance, any more than shaping a stone in form of a statue gives it consciousness.
It would be as conscious as a normal computer of today is, which is about as conscious as the matter of which it is made - pretty much as conscious as a stone, even if it can perform more complex tasks.
My car can also perform tasks, but that doesnt make it conscious, either.

DISCLAIMER AGAIN:
Much of this, is mere food for thought.
While I believe in the Soul, the details of my ideas are sometimes different from what I suggested here.
This is a first step, to help people take in consideration the existance of "astral" existence from a more logical point of view, without the blind beliefs of both who simply refuses believing anything outside the most (apparently) obvious things he can see, and who, similiarly blind, believes to religious doctrines without trying to understand them.
Superstition can be both religious and atheistic. People who "dont believe" often arent better than those who blindly believe to everything: they both refuse to refine their views to seek the truth.

 

[SFA_AOK]

Not read some of the longer posts (sorry Ar ) but to those clinging to the "Once we thought the Earth was flat" type arguments... I'm not saying that will never happen again. But new discoveries can fall into 2 categories - those that disprove other, older theories (such as the world is round/flat) and replace them, and there are those that encompass the original theory but add more to it (for example, we may have once thought only that sound moved through the air - it was only later we realised it was due to vibrations in the air caused by a sound. Not a great example I admit, but it's late ). I think we can expect more recent discoveries and going into the future to fall into the latter category. That sounds arrogant I know, but really, why did people think the Earth was flat? The process of science is entirely different now and though I'm sure it's not infallible, I'm sure it's a lot more watertight now than it was several hundreds of years ago.

Might try to read more tomorrow....

 

[Neutron Night]

Friend, there is quite a mix of contradictory thoughts in your mind.
You claim that consciousness is a different form of matter and energy, and then the opposite, than it is not comparable to them, that everything is matter and energy alone and consciousness is an abstract concept.

Everything is matter and energy. "Conciousness" as we describe it, is a type of ARRANGEMENT of matter and energy.

Consciousness can be considered "abstract" as in non-physical-matter, but not as not-existant.
Aside the obvious interior proof, is easy to logically understand that consciousness is not more abstract than Time, Space, Light, or even Physical Matter.

Anything that doesn't describe fundamental physical concepts is abstract. The definition is subject and difficult to define. For example:

Objective, logical statement: 2+2=4, the definition of a perfect circle, etc.

Subjective statement: We are concious, the universe is complex, God is superior, etc.

Only the first category can be considered facts, because it is beyond the universe. Everything else is an opinion.

Ultimately, from a quite common scientific-religious view, consciousness is the ONLY real thing there is.
Energy, Matter, Space, Time, are nothing more than "dream" ideas born out of the single consciousness defined as "God".

Isn't that Gnosticism? You could argue that no one else exists and you're the only concious being in the universe, but how likely is that? So it's not worth arguing.

Changes its manifested state, but not its nature.
You can compare Consciousness to water, and the mind to the shape of the bottle it fills, or maybe some pigments mixed in it.
Consciousness is a pure testimony. The things it gives testimoniance to, included the thoughts contained in a mind, are not the consciousness, but external objects.
The distincion is often hard to realize because consciousness thakes the shape of its container, in other words, being pure testimony, tends to identify with the objects it sees.
Which also explains why people who have a strong atraction towards material things, who think often of them, believe that matter, and not consciousness, is the greater Reality.
They are Consciousness, but mostly identified with Matter by (mis)use of consciousness own power of being testimony.

To someone who uses drugs, their view of the world changes. Does the world then change with them? Or are there any absolutes? Since we don't know whether or not our own conciousness is real, you might as well just make the safe choice.

No, you are wrong.
Magnetism, that you mentioned, makes an easy example.
Magnetism is no more "physical" than consciousness is, from a common human perspective (Ill ignore some subtler distinctions that can be made).
Magnetism can exist where physical matter is (mostly) not present, like in deep space.
How is it then more physical than consciousness, which you think can exist only if fused with physical matter (a brain)?
Magnetism can interact with Matter in some istances, and consciousness also can; magnetism can also exist without matter in others circumstances, on what basis you claim that consciousness cant do the same?

Magnetism is a physical law and can be defined mathmatically. How do you define conciousness?

Not exactly.
You can "easily" create an artificial mind that imitates the behaviour of the human one, like you can build a stone statue that imitates the sembiances of the human body.
But a mere imitation of behaviour wouldnt make that construct of matter suddenly develop a consciousness, or ability to give testimoniance, any more than shaping a stone in form of a statue gives it consciousness.
It would be as conscious as a normal computer of today is, which is about as conscious as the matter of which it is made - pretty much as conscious as a stone, even if it can perform more complex tasks.
My car can also perform tasks, but that doesnt make it conscious, either.

There's nothing that says we can't make an artificial brain. It's only a matter of study.

 

[isamu]

A friend of mine had a near death experience (plus I've seen some pretty unbelievable stuff myself) and I just want to say that you people who are saying that once you die that's it - well you're fucking wrong. There are things in this world that we have yet to fully understand and the afterlife is certainly one of them.

It was summer and my friend dove head first into the deep end of a built in pool but she hit her head on the bottom and broke her neck. We pulled her up and called 9-1-1. She was out cold the entire time. The doctors stabilized her and she was in a coma for 3 days. When she woke up she told us what she saw and it was pretty shocking. She knew exactly who pulled her out of the water. She knew all the things that her mother was screaming while we tried to save her. She knew who ran into the house to call the ambulance. She said that she saw all of it and that she had seen it by looking down on us from above. She said that she felt like she was just floating there and that she couldn't move. She then saw a white light and that was the last thing she had seen before she woke up from the coma. Now there is just no way she could have known this information. She was comatose and even if she was able to hear things she wouldn't have been able to know who pulled her out or who ran into the house. Her mother swore that she didn't tell her any of the details and that she woke up and told her first and I believe her.

As for what I've seen? Well I've seen ghosts and angels on several occasions (and for you smart asses, no I wasn't on drugs or anything like that). I believe that the angel that I've seen is my guardian angel. Both times that I saw her it was pretty similar. Basically, I was outside by myself and all of the sudden there was complete silence. It was as if the entire world stood still or as if someone had frozen time. From a great distance away I heard the sound of a horse running and I could hear it getting closer, and closer until suddenly the angel would appear riding the horse. The first time I saw her she just rode by me. The second time she stopped, got off the horse and hugged me, and rode off. I haven't seen her since.

I also used to live in a haunted house and I had more than my fair share of run ins there. Also, once an old girlfriend and I stayed in one of those haunted B&Bs in Pennsylvania and we saw one there too. We heard weird noises all night and at first we thought it might not be a real ghost and that it might just be the owners putting on a show but she woke me up in the middle of the night scared to death and when I looked there was a man standing right next to me as I laid in bed. I fucking jumped to the ceiling and turned on the light and he was gone. We packed our shit and left right then and there.

JC001, I'm sorry to hear about your friend. How is she doing now? Is she concious and able to function properly? I have looked into my soul and I find your story to be genuine and sincere. I have no reason to doubt what you say your friend experienced. It vexes me how many here have written off your story as bogus. I have heard many people describe almost exactly what your frind described after becoming unconcious and near death. The fact that hundreds of thousands of others have gone on record stating that they've seen themselves hovering above their body for a short period and then proceed to being drawn towards a warm, comfortable bright light, becoming closer and closer only to wake up in the real world again is a testament to just how real the possibility of a heaven after death is.

 

[Drexon]

"What happens when you die?"

You die, you stop working, nothing else. Death == brain stoppage ffs!

As to the feeling of dyeing (sp?), I dunno. I'd imagine it as going to sleep, real hard. After some point you'll just slip out of counciousness (sp?) and after that you can't feel a goddamn thing. What I know for sure is that there's no pain to it, the actual brain can't feel pain.

 

[OmniGamer]

JC001, I'm sorry to hear about your friend. How is she doing now? Is she concious and able to function properly? I have looked into my soul and I find your story to be genuine and sincere. I have no reason to doubt what you say your friend experienced. It vexes me how many here have written off your story as bogus. I have heard many people describe almost exactly what your frind described after becoming unconcious and near death. The fact that hundreds of thousands of others have gone on record stating that they've seen themselves hovering above their body for a short period and then proceed to being drawn towards a warm, comfortable bright light, becoming closer and closer only to wake up in the real world again is a testament to just how real the possibility of a heaven after death is.

It's a testament alright...y'know, "hundreds of thousands" of people claim a lot of things...doesn't make it true. It's say it's more a testament to the way the mind works during and after a traumatic event.

 

[DarthWoo]

A friend of mine had a near death experience (plus I've seen some pretty unbelievable stuff myself) and I just want to say that you people who are saying that once you die that's it - well you're fucking wrong. There are things in this world that we have yet to fully understand and the afterlife is certainly one of them.

It was summer and my friend dove head first into the deep end of a built in pool but she hit her head on the bottom and broke her neck. We pulled her up and called 9-1-1. She was out cold the entire time. The doctors stabilized her and she was in a coma for 3 days. When she woke up she told us what she saw and it was pretty shocking. She knew exactly who pulled her out of the water. She knew all the things that her mother was screaming while we tried to save her. She knew who ran into the house to call the ambulance. She said that she saw all of it and that she had seen it by looking down on us from above. She said that she felt like she was just floating there and that she couldn't move. She then saw a white light and that was the last thing she had seen before she woke up from the coma. Now there is just no way she could have known this information. She was comatose and even if she was able to hear things she wouldn't have been able to know who pulled her out or who ran into the house. Her mother swore that she didn't tell her any of the details and that she woke up and told her first and I believe her.

Whether real or not, there are plenty of stories about drugs that can induce death-like states in which the subject is still conscious, but unable to take actions. It is not at all inconceivable that such a condition could exist for a few moments during a severe trauma. As others have mentioned, NDA can be stimulated through direct stimulation of various parts of the brain. After such an injury, the body dumps a whole bunch of endorphins on itself to help cope.

 

[OmniGamer]

Copy&Paste from the newer thread

I'm sorry, but I find a lot of religious "beliefs" to be so endlessly contradictory and a lot of times just out&out hokey. And i've been in a religious school for every grade between 2nd and 12th with the lone exception of the 9th grade.

So much of it SCREAMS of fear-based brainwashing/brainshackling. And a lot of so-called explanations are so lazy and half-assed(too-kind, i mean, eighth-assed) as to defy the barrier between sane and insane. I'd have an easier time swallowing a pinneapple whole than some of the stuff i've had to grow up hearing and reading. And probably what's worse than the religion(s) itself are the so-called practitioners, who act in ways that completely go against what they're supposed to believe in so strongly.

As for the afterlife thing...I don't see why it's so hard believe that you just die, but you can believe in all sorts of other fantastical things that happen after you die. Let's see...the universe didn't give one shit about you before you popped out of the womb, but once you do it's gotta be stuck with for the rest of all that is? Like I said in the other thread, I strongly believe that people believe in an afterlife for no other reason than as a coping mechanism. Just read the responses in this thread...me no likey the idea of death...i get depressed...etc. Either you're indifferent to the idea of death....or you fear it....or you cope with it by believing that there's "something else" afterwards. There's no logic or reason to it...just coping, brought on by fear, brought on by an inability to let go of life because *lightbulb* life is all you know because *lightbulb* YOU DIDN'T FUCKING EXIST BEFORE YOU WERE ALIVE.

I may be completely wrong, and i'm fine with that, but at least my reasoning doesn't stem from fairytales and magicdust. And yes, i'm aware my post is barbed with condensation...no more so than others that state i should just click the heels of my ruby slippers and chant "THERE IS AN AFTERLIFE....THERE IS AN AFTERLIFE....THERE IS AN AFTERLIFE".

 

[Gek54]

The real question is what happens when you die with a boner.

 

[isamu]

Whether real or not, there are plenty of stories about drugs that can induce death-like states in which the subject is still conscious, but unable to take actions. It is not at all inconceivable that such a condition could exist for a few moments during a severe trauma. As others have mentioned, NDA can be stimulated through direct stimulation of various parts of the brain. After such an injury, the body dumps a whole bunch of endorphins on itself to help cope.

Darth....the man clearly stated that his friend DOES NOT do drugs. And was not drugged at all before or after they pulled her out of the pool.

 

[EekTheKat]

When you die, everything goes black...and the words "GAME OVER" appear in big blocky letters.

 

[DarthWoo]

That's not his point. That which can be induced artificially can surely happen naturally under the right conditions.

Exactly. Thanks for being so quick on correcting that selective misinterpretation.