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What we know so far about the Nintendo NX with sources

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Pif

Banned
That's the theory in a nutshell. In said theory, the NX Handheld would serve as the flagship NX device for most third parties to target, while the NX Console (being, for argument's sake, a bit below the Xbox One) uses the same everything but with a higher grade of CPU & GPU. As more support comes to the NX Platform, it'll make western third parties a bit more willing to support the NX Platform as a whole. The only issue with this scenario is that Nintendo will have to prove that supporting the NX Console alone is a viable option (in case certain third party developers are not willing to scale their games down).

I guess they are putting their faith on the gimmick along with the shared OS. It worked for Wii and DS. Wii Fit was also a successful gimmick on it's own.

People are fast to dismiss this strategy because of the Wii U, although it clearly worked throughout their history with reasonable to great success. From Dapds, shoulder buttons, analog sticks, rumble, motion control, touch control, dual screen, no glasses 3D - many of those got copied by competitors and some even became industry standards.

Gimmicks definitely help to sell a platform.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
I guess they are putting their faith on the gimmick along with the shared OS. It worked for Wii and DS. Wii Fit was also a successful gimmick on it's own.

People are fast to dismiss this strategy because of the Wii U, although it clearly worked throughout their history with reasonable to great success. From Dapds, shoulder buttons, analog sticks, rumble, motion control, touch control, dual screen, no glasses 3D - many of those got copied by competitors and some even became industry standards.

Gimmicks definitely help to sell a platform.
But the problem is having a gimmick you can use on both the handheld & the console.
 
That would be terrible. OG Vita draws <5W with screen and still has battery issues.

Also, that particular R-series SOC uses excavator cores. If you threw some ARM on there i'd imagine you'd get substantial power savings. Granted, I don't know what the 12W configuration looks like already (probably one excavator module with a tiny gpu), but i would think that ARM+GCN would be do-able in a handheld, especially if they're using 14nm finfet (the likelihood of which is questionable).
 

QaaQer

Member
People are fast to dismiss this strategy because of the Wii U, although it clearly worked throughout their history with reasonable to great success. From Dapds, shoulder buttons, analog sticks, rumble, motion control, touch control, dual screen, no glasses 3D - many of those got copied by competitors and some even became industry standards.

Gimmicks definitely help to sell a platform.

.

However, that was then. Idk what can be brought to market for $200-$400 that will capture imaginations with vr coming.

Is it fair to say that the wii was kind of a vr device insofar as it let people play virtual sports etc?
 
That was just an example guy. You said AMD has no new low powered solutions and you were wrong. Add to the fact that AMD already stated they want into the handheld business.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=854467

Sigh, Ultra low power and low power are two different markets with two different targets, and I said AMD has not had a decent meaning competitive product in either market.

Also, that particular R-series SOC uses excavator cores. If you threw some ARM on there i'd imagine you'd get substantial power savings. Granted, I don't know what the 12W configuration looks like already (probably one excavator module with a tiny gpu), but i would think that ARM+GCN would be do-able in a handheld, especially if they're using 14nm finfet (the likelihood of which is questionable).
I still doubt the performance of an AMD part will be anything to brag about. their perf per watt has been pretty terrible at all ends, so pessimism over their ability to magically produce a gem in this area is warranted. I can't find performance targets for this SOC through google search, either. The Youtube video has more information than anything else on the net regarding the SOC.

I bet ATI/AMD is kicking themselves for selling Adreno.
 
But the problem is having a gimmick you can use on both the handheld & the console.

So far, pretty much all the 'gimmicks' we've heard about so far for the NX can be applicable to both - scrollder buttons, free-form screen, and possibly grip buttons ala Steam Controller, according to information from the latter patent.

I'm personally hoping the free-form screen stuff enables attachable physical button overlays for face buttons that would basically enable virtually any frontal control layout, as explained in this post and after.
 

Josh5890

Member
I wonder how the absence of a competitor in the handheld segment is going to affect NXportable popularity. So far Nintendo is the only confirmed company to be working on one.

Assuming both NX consoles share an OS, Would be funny if NX console picks up steam due to good support aimed at the portable machine, like usual on Nintendo, and gathers attention from devs without actually earning said attention directly.

Sony bowing out of the portable market might become a godsend for a Nintendo home console.

Sony is done with the handheld market, at least that is what I think. They could be working on some companion for the PS5 kind of like the remote play that PS4 has but that is a stretch. As long as Nintendo is smart about how they handle the handheld/mobile market there should be room for them to exist with a player in that market. If nothing else, they will always have Pokemon to pull people towards a handheld.
 

10k

Banned
Five stages of NX news grief:

DENIAL - Nintendo will talk about the NX soon. Rösti will come through.

ANGER - WTF Nintendo it's the end of January 2016 already and you said 2016 you'd talk about the NX! Rösti where is our tidbit!?

BARGAINING - Maybe if I don't look at the calendar or refresh this thread for a whole day something huge will happen and NX news will leak? If I eat a Rösti maybe Rösti will get info from his contact?

DEPRESSION - We may never get NX news. We'll have to wait for E3. I just don't care anymore if we get news or not. Fuck it. Fuck life.

ACCEPTANCE - We may just have to wait until February 2nd to hear NX details and when the official reveal will be. Rösti it's ok, I understand the situation. This is life. NX is dead.
 

MoonFrog

Member
Five stages of NX news grief:

DENIAL - Nintendo will talk about the NX soon. Rösti will come through.

ANGER - WTF Nintendo it's the end of January 2016 already and you said 2016 you'd talk about the NX! Rösti where is our tidbit!?

BARGAINING - Maybe if I don't look at the calendar or refresh this thread for a whole day something huge will happen and NX news will leak? If I eat a Rösti maybe Rösti will get info from his contact?

DEPRESSION - We may never get NX news. We'll have to wait for E3. I just don't care anymore if we get news or not. Fuck it. Fuck life.

ACCEPTANCE - We may just have to wait until February 2nd to hear NX details and when the official reveal will be. Rösti it's ok, I understand the situation. This is life. NX is dead.
5 day reprieve and then do this again on the second?
 

AdanVC

Member
I just hope to don't see one of those disappointed posts of yours when the time finally comes :p

They would become rage posts instead hah. Hoping for the best with NX. Nintendo really needs this one.

Yep,, Nintendo runs a tight ship.

Dat Nintendo seal of quality NDA!

Five stages of NX news grief:

DENIAL - Nintendo will talk about the NX soon. Rösti will come through.

ANGER - WTF Nintendo it's the end of January 2016 already and you said 2016 you'd talk about the NX! Rösti where is our tidbit!?

BARGAINING - Maybe if I don't look at the calendar or refresh this thread for a whole day something huge will happen and NX news will leak? If I eat a Rösti maybe Rösti will get info from his contact?

DEPRESSION - We may never get NX news. We'll have to wait for E3. I just don't care anymore if we get news or not. Fuck it. Fuck life.

ACCEPTANCE - We may just have to wait until February 2nd to hear NX details and when the official reveal will be. Rösti it's ok, I understand the situation. This is life. NX is dead.

Right now I'm at the edge of the bargaining stage ready to jump into depression stage while playing nothing but Splatoon.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
12W is tablet upper-edge territory. Try 2W for a hh.

ps: just so I'm not misunderstood, those R-series are not aimed at tablets at all.

ed: after catching up with the r/g-series debate: g-series is not a good hh SoC by any stretch of the imagination. They have a notable fat-GPU/anaemic-CPU disbalance - e.g. 4.5W for the single-core bobcat @ 600MHz and a Wrestler GPU.
 

Thraktor

Member
One of the lead designers of the NX handheld me thinks.

https://gyazo.com/b9a863ebdf33c3d059569b68a26a50f9

The AMD designed NX chip or chips started design work around November 2014 (see quotes here), so anyone who left the company in April that year wouldn't have been involved.


As others have pointed out, AMD's Bulldozer-derived APUs aren't really suitable for handheld gaming. If you wanted to cite an AMD chip that could conceivably be adapted for use in a handheld you'd be better off looking at the A10 Micro-6700T (aka Mullins), which is a 4.5W TDP/2.8W SDP chip specifically designed for tablets.

I bet ATI/AMD is kicking themselves for selling Adreno.

I'm not quite sure. At the moment Adreno is one of the major mobile GPU archs, but I don't know if it would be had it been in AMD's hands for the past few years. For one thing they only just adopted ARM, so they either would have had to sell the IP a-la PowerVR, or integrated it with x86 cores that nobody wants. Even then, with the shape the company's been in since selling I can't imagine them putting the kind of R&D investment into it that Qualcomm has.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
As others have pointed out, AMD's Bulldozer-derived APUs aren't really suitable for handheld gaming. If you wanted to cite an AMD chip that could conceivably be adapted for use in a handheld you'd be better off looking at the A10 Micro-6700T (aka Mullins), which is a 4.5W TDP/2.8W SDP chip specifically designed for tablets.

I wonder if Nintendo would go with an APU which would likely cost significantly more than the rather outdated silicon that they've used in their handhelds so far. Especially after the price issues they had with the 3DS. At least I assume that it will be more expensive given the die size and the node process. Maybe they could go for a small derivate with only two Puma cores and a smaller GPU.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
As others have pointed out, AMD's Bulldozer-derived APUs aren't really suitable for handheld gaming. If you wanted to cite an AMD chip that could conceivably be adapted for use in a handheld you'd be better off looking at the A10 Micro-6700T (aka Mullins), which is a 4.5W TDP/2.8W SDP chip specifically designed for tablets.
Now that's a proper tablet SoC - adequate CPU performance, upper-class GPU in a 5W envelope. It's a real shame the Asuses of the world went for subpar Bay/Cherry Trails in their x86 tablets (read: that subsidy money).

I'm not quite sure. At the moment Adreno is one of the major mobile GPU archs, but I don't know if it would be had it been in AMD's hands for the past few years. For one thing they only just adopted ARM, so they either would have had to sell the IP a-la PowerVR, or integrated it with x86 cores that nobody wants. Even then, with the shape the company's been in since selling I can't imagine them putting the kind of R&D investment into it that Qualcomm has.
You do have a point. That does not mean AMD are not deeply sorry about that : )

I wonder if Nintendo would go with an APU which would likely cost significantly more than the rather outdated silicon that they've used in their handhelds so far. Especially after the price issues they had with the 3DS. At least I assume that it will be more expensive given the die size and the node process. Maybe they could go for a small derivate with only two Puma cores and a smaller GPU.
That's a tablet SoC, not a hh SoC - 4.5W is still way too much for a hh, let alone one by nintendo (who never go reckless with their TDP). And the problem is, cutting the CPU cores won't be enough - they'd need to downgrade the GPU in there.
 

maxcriden

Member
So far, pretty much all the 'gimmicks' we've heard about so far for the NX can be applicable to both - scrollder buttons, free-form screen, and possibly grip buttons ala Steam Controller, according to information from the latter patent.

I'm personally hoping the free-form screen stuff enables attachable physical button overlays for face buttons that would basically enable virtually any frontal control layout, as explained in this post and after.

I would caution you to set your expectations low when it comes to detachable controller parts or buttons. I really doubt we will get any such item because Nintendo would be understandably too concerned about their youngest fans confusing buttons for chew toys.
 

jahasaja

Member
1401913528231.png

Literally the second bullet point. Second sentence.
2. Iwata's first mention of a new project that will feature unified architectures. (Source)

Yes, I did read that. All I am saying that the end product might have changed and that it is not 100 % certain that it will not be a hybrid. But I also understand that is my inner fanboy that is speaking.
 
Now that's a proper tablet SoC - adequate CPU performance, upper-class GPU in a 5W envelope. It's a real shame the Asuses of the world went for subpar Bay/Cherry Trails in their x86 tablets (read: that subsidy money).


You do have a point. That does not mean AMD are not deeply sorry about that : )


That's a tablet SoC, not a hh SoC - 4.5W is still way too much for a hh, let alone one by nintendo (who never go reckless with their TDP). And the problem is, cutting the CPU cores won't be enough - they'd need to downgrade the GPU in there.



I guess that at 14nm, a semi custom with 4 A72 cores and 2CU might bring that down a bit. Now the problem comes from what does Nintendo aim with their handheld. A 128gflops handheld, at 540p, would be like more than 16 times the 3DS hardware power, that's accounting the resolution bump. Will Nintendo go for that much of an upgrade ? And will they cheap out on components ? Because the success for a good SoC in a handheld is to offer decent battery life, limited heat and good power. Which means, either Nintendo will go for said 128gflops handheld (2CU at 500mhz), with a decent battery (more than 2000mAh) and good materials, like aluminium, which would help heat dissipation... or go for sth on par with Vita, or twice faster (basically, Vita is like 28gflops, so something like a 64gflops handheld, or in that territory), with a cheap plastic case and a less than 1800mAh battery.

And that is, of course, if they go for a classic hardware or find a new expensive gimmick.
 

QaaQer

Member
Yes, I did read that. All I am saying that the end product might have changed and that it is not 100 % certain that it will not be a hybrid. But I also understand that is my inner fanboy that is speaking.

Iwata was a great man, but he said a lot of things that never came to be. A hybrid is not out of the question. I'd be quite happy with a hybrid personally. I've really enjoyed being able to swap my memory card between my vitatv and vita hh.
 

Hermii

Member
Yes, I did read that. All I am saying that the end product might have changed and that it is not 100 % certain that it will not be a hybrid. But I also understand that is my inner fanboy that is speaking.

A hybrid would just be the worst of both worlds. It would probably be a bad home console and a bad portable. Separate devices with a unified environment is the way to go.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Nintendo Co. is likely to release a new hand-held game device this year, an analyst at U.S. research firm IHS Inc.

At least going by the first few lines of the article, it's what an analyst expect. Like another article we've already talked about in the recent past. It'd be interesting to read the full article anyway.
 

Thraktor

Member
I wonder if Nintendo would go with an APU which would likely cost significantly more than the rather outdated silicon that they've used in their handhelds so far. Especially after the price issues they had with the 3DS. At least I assume that it will be more expensive given the die size and the node process. Maybe they could go for a small derivate with only two Puma cores and a smaller GPU.

They'd swap the Puma cores out for ARM, probably A53's (which take up about 1/3rd the space of Puma). And the 3DS price issues were much more to do with the 3D screen and Nintendo's desire for day-one profitability than silicon costs. Besides, 28nm is a very mature node now, and a ~100mm² 28nm die wouldn't be completely out of the question for a $199 break-even handheld (unless they do anything crazy like throwing a donut-shaped screen in there, which isn't at all out of the question).

You do have a point. That does not mean AMD are not deeply sorry about that : )

Well, I'm sure AMD believe they would have managed it fantastically had they held onto it, but I'm sure they also believe that K12+Polaris will see them gradually dominate the Android world, so I'm guessing the two delusions would cancel each other out.

That's a tablet SoC, not a hh SoC - 4.5W is still way too much for a hh, let alone one by nintendo (who never go reckless with their TDP). And the problem is, cutting the CPU cores won't be enough - they'd need to downgrade the GPU in there.

Perhaps a little, but I don't think they'd have to gimp the GPU all that much. For one thing, Mullins was early-2014 28nm, whereas an NX handheld would be late-2016 28nm, so you've got two and a half years of process improvements to rely on to improve efficiency, which can count for a lot. Secondly, Mullins was using GCN 1.1, whereas a modern chip would presumably use 1.2, which is considerably more power efficient. See Tonga's significant perf/W improvement vs. Tahiti on an almost identically sized die, or the power efficiency of the Fury line (though HBM plays a part in that one). A sort of GCN 1.2.5 incorporating aspects of Polaris wouldn't be completely impossible, either, given that the uarch R&D for Polaris would have been well underway when design started.

I'm not saying that a modern Mullins-alike would necessarily be any kind of powerhouse in a handheld TDP, but it would satisfy what I feel would be two important criteria by Nintendo's standards:

1. It would be a significant jump over the 3DS
2. It would provide predictable scaling for cross-development with a GCN-based NX home console

Given the way Nintendo's been talking about the NX, I don't think an AMD 28nm APU for the handheld can be ruled out.
 

QaaQer

Member
Amd would make sense as the other makers are laser focused on phones, no? Wouldn't it cost more to get them to devote resources to a niche thing like a gaming hh, especially when you factor in opportunity cost? I assume Nintendo is not going off-the-shelf of course.
 

Zalman

Member
New handheld is going to be hype. It'll be interesting to see how they position it now that smartphones and tablets are everywhere.
 
I'll be honest. My main issue with the console likely missing 2016...

... is because the 25th Anniversary Sonic game might skip it and the handheld will likely just get a gimped low-budget version. AKA, Generations all over again. :(

This might be avoided if the console is in spring.

Literally, Sonic is the sole reason I want it this year LOL! XD
 
Hm, it appears a little strange when the 3DS has a rather solid line-up for 2016 in the west.
For Japan, i see a handheld first approach as the better way, especially now with DQ XI missing 2016.

Hope this doesn't mean a split launch with months of time apart.
 

AniHawk

Member
Iwata was a great man, but he said a lot of things that never came to be. A hybrid is not out of the question. I'd be quite happy with a hybrid personally. I've really enjoyed being able to swap my memory card between my vitatv and vita hh.

i think it's possible they have two skus:

1. handheld-only. it's got some sort of new thing&#8482; to draw in a wider crowd, but it's also the lowest barrier of entry
2. console-handheld hybrid. it would essentially be the wii u except you can take the gamepad on the go. it would also be more expensive, but the home console would have the best performance.

i don't think they'll try to wow people with two new ideas (touch/motion and 3d/tablet), so they'll focus on just the one. this gives their design teams a sense of direction in addition to only making games for one platform. plus, with the device essentially a handheld, they don't have to worry about multiple mediums and just stick with game cards. considering it would be handheld focused, it would get them at the very least some solid japanese support for the first year or two, and maybe longer if the system is successful in japan.

Hm, it appears a little strange when the 3DS has a rather solid line-up for 2016 in the west.
For Japan, i see a handheld first approach as the better way, especially now with DQ XI missing 2016.

Hope this doesn't mean a split launch with months of time apart.

dqxi is hitting nx too though. plus, you don't want to let your platforms die before you replace them.
 
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