Yes there was a change to the Wii U devkit done in the middle of the developing. 3rd to 4th version or something like that.
What we know so far about the Nintendo NX with sources
- Thread starter Hero of Legend
- Start date
- Status
Yes there was a change to the Wii U devkit done in the middle of the developing. 3rd to 4th version or something like that.
If we're only getting the NX Handheld this year (as speculated by WSJ), it would make sense that the NX Console's final specs are being worked on while the NX Handheld's specs are already locked down.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
We all would like backwards comparability, but it comes with a cost. Keeping the PowerPC line requires too many compromises on Nintendo's part that have a negative effect on the performance of games for the current generation. The PowerPC chips in the Wii U couldn't keep up with the CPU's of consoles that were seven years old at the Wii U's launch.
We're not celebrating the loss of backwards compatibility- we're celebrating the removal of the handicaps that seeking BC for this particular line of chips brings with it.
One thing that I haven't seen any one mention with the idea on both a home console and portable console sharing the same game cartridge is the price. Given that you are technically getting 2 games in one, there is no way that the games will stay in the $60 price point. And the increase in price might steer customers away, specially if you only want to play the game in one system and don't care about the other. And I know that it is assumed that both the home console and the portable console will be running similar system, but time will still need to be taken to optimize the game for both system, and time is money.
Although Intel's own attempt to eliminate the "burden" of BC, Itanium, failed quite spectacularly, in no small part because Intel's biggest selling point is that very BC (also because compiling efficient code for VLIW architectures turns out to be extraordinarily difficult, but that's going off on an entirely different tangent).
Anyway, my point is that you have to balance the burden of BC against its market value. For Wii U, the burden is very high, as you would have to include a PPC processor and a controller with a screen. These together (particularly the screen) are going to cost you a lot. Conversely, the market value is very low, as not that many people bought the Wii U, so the demand for a device that plays those games isn't going to be very high.
In post-NX devices there would be a significant market value to maintain BC, though, as they're trying to establish a multi-device software platform like iOS or Android, and being able to bring your software with you from one generation to the next is an important part of that. There's actually far more value to be created by Nintendo creating hardware that will be easily incorporated in future devices, than there is trying to create hardware than incorporates the Wii U.
If it's a matter of clock speeds or RAM configuration, I wouldn't be particularly concerned, as it wouldn't be unusual to change even up to a few months in advance of launch. If it's the actual configuration of the GPU or CPU that becomes a little different, as it means they haven't finished design on the SoC, which is cutting it pretty damn tight for a console maybe 9 months away from hitting shelves.
Any word on which specs? Like are they still discussing clocks/RAM and such? Or are they still discussing GPU/CPU configurations? The former isn't surprising, the latter is... strange.
Afterall the N3DS had its speed changed right before launch when they finished the better 3D tracking.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
I'm thinking the NX console will have a blu-ray drive, but the handheld will not accept cartridges. I think the Macronix deal is for storage built-in. I see the console as being a software distribution device for the handheld. The console may be more than one sku, with one having no drive. The WiiU gamepad capabilities may have been expanded on, allowing handheld owners to play they're home console games on the go. With a speedy Wi-Fi connection you can take your home console without taking your home console.
Not the first time I've seen that speculated today. But only speculated.
No specifics.
I don't think this is the case. The idea is for the library to be shared to avoid droughts. If anything they should sell more copies of the same game. No need to raise the price.
Interesting. I wish you could give us a morsel more info, heh.
But those with only the NX Handheld would be screwed over. As for the NX Console's disc drive, you'd think that Panasonic would be mentioned if we were getting one. Not to mention that Nintendo tends to stick with knock-off discs to avoid licensing fees.
Probably true - but I hope it's not like the Wii U where they decided to lower the specs in the last 9 months. that sucked
What if they simi reveal the NX on Feb 2nd investors meeting lol
Not a full reveal but show pics and give some real info
Sending back to back console mainline Zelda's out to die is a huge mistake, they did it with Skyward Sword they cant do it with Zelda U
Zelda TP is one of the best selling Zeldas for a reason
Mmmh...I'd dare to say that, if there's anything that's still not firm in stone about NX hardware, it's clock / RAM configuration like Thraktor said, for the home console version as Neoxon assumed, since the handheld is 90% releasing this year (between the recent well-founded rumours and how our own John Harker impled twice a 2016 release for NX). This still wouldn't exclude a 2016 release for the home console as well, which is something that I find less possible, but not impossible. It depends on when the two devices launch (separate launches? With the handheld releasing in, let's say, September, it wouldn't be impossible to see the home out in December...but if it's really fully unveiled directly at E3, it would make the announcement-to-release period even shorter than what would be considered the shortest fiesable time. Simultaneous launch? While it could be possible, it's logistically a very difficult and tasking effort that could backfire in the end, if not executed correctly), but it's not that impossible IMHO.
James Scott
Banned
Still, it's a finished Zelda game launching within a few months (presumably) of the new system. Even if you have more software available for launch, they shouldn't miss out on that opportunity.
These games take a lot of time to make and they'll bring in the core.
TheMoon
Member
Not happening. 100% guaranteed. Especially no pics. Best you can hope for his a new adjective thrown into the vague description and some hint as to when the actual reveal happens.
If Apple can launch an iPhone 6S and 6S Plus, and maybe throw a new Mac in there too, on the same day, why wouldn't Nintendo be able to launch 2 devices the same day? I get that Apple has it's own stores, but besides shelf space, can anyone tell me what could go wrong if they indeed do launch the two simultaneously? I'm a noob in this kind of stuff.
I just don't know how much difference it really makes. Especially if by the time the Zelda NX port comes along the Wii U version has been out for several months. I doubt Skyward Sword would've moved the needle for Wii U.
Zelda TP launched with the Wii, and the Wii was a perfect storm in a lot of ways.
James Scott
Banned
I think Nintendo's going to delay it again, sadly.
Paper Mario can be the Wii U's holiday game, I guess
I'm gonna assume that it has to do with the actual production of the devices. But I'm curious as well, given that they invest enough money in the actual production, they should be able to have enough volume of both devices ready for launch. The question is, where will they offset the cost of manufacturing? I very much doubt that they will take the loss themselves.
The last console Zelda was in 2011 and they're gonna delay the next one until 2017? That's tough. I don't think they would've reiterated it as a Wii U title in their last big Direct if they were gonna intentionally push it back just for NX. I hope not anyways.
Fourth Storm
Member
I wonder what aspects are causing them to still be in flux. Are they trying to go for a small form factor once again? Are they budget constrained and unsure of how much RAM to include?
I'm particularly thinking about external RAM (besides the eSRAM or HBM). I wouldn't be at all surprised if they started at 4 GB on a 64-bit bus and are now rethinking that. If they started with a 128-bit bus in mind, they would know that 8 chips would be necessary right from the start. But Takeda has emphasized even recently they like smaller pools of efficient RAM rather than pure capacity. I could see them opting for a slimmer OS footprint than the ~3.5 GB or so reserved by PS4 and Xbox One, especially as the OS will very likely be identical on the HH.
If its the console and not until 2017, they could be waiting on maturation of production lines for certain parts of hardware, especially if they want more modern tech.
Fourth Storm
Member
They've traditionally launched their consoles in November (N64 was September in N.A.). Waiting until Holiday 2017 would really hurt their image on the home console front. It would also take away much of the impact a Zelda U port might bring to the table.
I'm holding out hope for 2016.
I'm talking more about sales of the game, not the system, if SS was a launch game on Wiiu it would have sold way more the attach rate would have been crazy high, plus it would have moved more WiiU units too
Apple Employee count: ~115,000
Nintendo Employee count: ~ 5,000
Also Apple will almost certainly outbid them for any additional manufacturing capacity because those contracts are insanely lucrative.
Well I'm just looking at information provided as we seem to be within 90% certainty of *something* launching this holiday, and more indication pointing towards handheld. So they would in theory have time for more fiddling with a console version.
Logistically speaking, also, I don't know if Nintendo/retail could handle two concurrent hardware launches, so I do expect some sort of offsets in releases.
I suppose, but hampering the software sales of one game and selling a relative tiny amount of consoles less doesn't really fall into the 'huge mistake' category. Right now what's on my mind is what can Nintendo do with their hardware that will make it sell 70 million instead of 7.
Step 1: Find whoever made that first Wii U ad with the dubstep and banish them.
LordOfChaos
Member
And there's a reminder that they're smaller than the newly shrunken Blackberry or the constantly shedding AMD
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=nintendo+amd+blackberry&a=*C.nintendo-_*Financial-
If it's clock speeds that's nothing to worry about, as they're unlikely to be finalised until you get a few months away from launch (when you have final silicon, finished cases and cooling systems, etc.). RAM doesn't usually change close to launch, but it's not a difficult one to do, you basically just ring up Samsung/SK Hynix/Crucial and say "You know those 4Gb chips we ordered? Switch them to 8Gb" and you've got twice the RAM (this is what Sony did only around 6 months before PS4 released).
If you're trying to change the bus width of the RAM you're in completely different territory, as it means you have to change the memory controller on the SoC, which means you haven't finalised the SoC yet.
I doubt they're making any radical changes at this point, though (like suddenly deciding to attempt to cram the console into a small form factor), it's probably the usual tweaking that you'd see at this point in a console's development.
Depends on how you measure the size of a company. If you're going by market cap, Nintendo is about 10x the size of AMD and 5x the size of Blackberry.
Edit: And, more relevantly to the discussion at hand, they outsource a far greater proportion of their hardware design than Apple (e.g. they don't design their own processors in-house).
OG_Original Gamer
Member
The home console wouldn't be the only way games can be purchased for the handheld, you can also go to Gamestop or BestBuy. Your home console would be easier and faster.
That list wasn't a comprehensive list of every supplier for the NX, nor did the author claim it was. If it was, the NX wouldn't have a processor, or RAM, or a lot of other things that are kind of necessary for it to function.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Ah, Itanium.. It appears that Intel, as an organisation, are suffering from a psychological complex. Itanium damaged their upper management mentally, to the point that the entire intel high command sincerely believe that x86 is the only thing that can sustain them. But it's one thing when you create proven profitability x86 server chips, and an entirely different thing when you create WTFs as x86-based cache-coherent GPUs and x86 mobile CPUs where half your floorplan is a frontend. In contrast, AMD have been the bright underdog, who single-handedly took x86 to the 21st century desktops and servers, while also realising x86 cannot compete in all markets (including some server sub-markets), so they needed to expand their expertise. Whatever, some guy once said that the moment intel stopped making x86 would the moment they got buried, so back to the subject at hand.
Absolutely. Nintendo are laying the foundations for their next few generations this year. They need as clean a slate as they can get - i.e. they need to 'outgrow' themselves and see what will be good for their hw development for the next couple of decades. Let's hope they make/have made the smartest decisions they could, as we'll be living with those for a long time.
The Horror the horror
Banned
What are third parties saying about the NX? Have EA, Activision, or TakeTwo said anything?
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
EA has commented on NX (in an earnings release conference call). Activision (Blizzard) I don't think has said anything (there might be a comment/question in the Q4 CY15 Results Conference Call on February 11). Take-Two I don't think has said anything about NX.
I been thinking about something that has not been addressed as far as I can tell Handheld and console gaming is usually quite different. One reason that vita failed which is often cited is that I tried to emulate console gaming on a handheld.
The main point of the NX seems to be that the games can be played both on the handheld and on the console. But what kind of games will they be?
For instance, I do not think 3d land would have been highly regarded on a console and pikmin would probably not have worked on 3ds..
The main point of the NX seems to be that the games can be played both on the handheld and on the console. But what kind of games will they be?
For instance, I do not think 3d land would have been highly regarded on a console and pikmin would probably not have worked on 3ds..
Moar shaders. Moar Megaherz, Moar of everything, sprinkle with FinFETz, plz.
Pokemaniac
Member
The games will likely be of both types, just as they are now across Wii U and 3DS. Users will just have a choice for which platform to play them on.
Hero of Legend
Member
More GCN's to ducktape!
Graphics Horse
Member
Just look at all the games that can be played with the gamepad only, that's all a handheld needs to be in terms of software.
D
Deleted member 465307
Unconfirmed Member
So...if the system might have a shared software library (as per speculation based on quotes), how do we expect software pricing to be? Wii to Wii U game costs generally went from $50 to $60; DS to 3DS was $30 to $40. Let's say handheld game prices would be $40-$50 on new hardware. Do all games cost that much if they also work on the console? Are all portable games now $60? Do you charge a $10 activation fee to use it on the home console? Do game prices span from $40-$60 depending on the game (like some of Wii U's titles)? I don't know how pricing will work when the portable is the primary model. (I always saw Vita and PSP as secondary to PS3/PS4)
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
LordOfChaos
Member
Also to be fair Apple employs a huge retail staff that's counted in there.
Not only that but unless they are going to break their 3 year cycles, Tokyo EAD and Retro should be ~ready for fall 2016. A launch window with Mario and Retro games coupled with a Zelda and a Smash port...
Maybe NX development will push those teams to four years but if those games are for the handheld this fall and not the home console, it'd seem the home console launch will be pretty weak.
EDIT: Thinking about shared games, wouldn't the biggest bang for both consoles come at the same time? If the shared game hypothesis is ~true. Will Nintendo spend that on the handheld or the home? It'd obviously be best if they spent it on both and that has to be part of the idea. If, say, Retro and TEPD are this year/early 2017 and Zelda is this fall, what could be Nintendo's heavy hitter next fall? If Retro and TEPD are next fall and Zelda cannot be on handheld, what would the handheld's heavy hitter at launch be?
I think instead of having set prices based on platform, it'll change based on production value. Nintendo has been experimenting quite a bit with pricing games on the eShop for Wii U and 3DS. I'd expect a far greater range.
The way to do it is put Zelda U on the handheld, to show off that the handheld can deliver Wii U level graphics in 540p or so. There it has the route for extra sales while Wii U fans who want the gamepad features and want to play it on the big screen can do that too.Game gets the exposure of the hopefully more successful device, without really diminishing the game, and they keep their Wii U promise (and the handheld game doesn't undercut the Wii U, since it's only handheld at the end of the day.)
Lilalaunebaer
Member
The bit from the WSJ about the Handheld launching this year doesn´t mean the home console won´t launch this year too. All it means, is that they think the handheld releases this year.
I can see them launching both at the same time. Since the Handheld and home console are supposed to share most of their games, they´re like different SKUs. I never heard a retailer crying over a console launching with a SKU with just a console and a bundle or two. Now you could say, but this is different, but i think it´s similar enough.
They could also launch them separately. If the Handheld launches first, i´d expect it to come out in september-october and the home console in November for the holidays. Since the console will most likely be more expensive, i think the holiday $$$ are more important for it.
If the home console launches first, i´d still expect it launch for holiday 2016, because holiday $$$ and the Handheld Q1 2017, since the Handheld will (hopefully, most likely) be below 200$ and that is more of a purchase price for the regular year.
Ugh, i can´t wait. New console launches are always hype, and Nintendo especially so because they always do something new, different and unexpected. For better or worse. But always exciting.
At the Q3 earnings report, i would only expect a time frame for the announcements to be made. The investors will be hungry for info, since they want to know what Nintendo is doing with their money. And i don´t think they can just say, "more info in 2016". WE ALREADY BE IN 2016!
The reveal or full reveal at E3 and launch 5-6 months later doesn´t sound crazy to be honest. Announcement to launch has been getting shorter for pretty much everything nowadays. 18 months for a console is obviously crazy nowadays. Sony´s 9 months and MS´s 6 months are about right. (MS screwed up with the product and idea, not the time frame. Yeah, they could have changed for the better with more time, but that´s only relevant if you´re an asshole about it.)
I can see them launching both at the same time. Since the Handheld and home console are supposed to share most of their games, they´re like different SKUs. I never heard a retailer crying over a console launching with a SKU with just a console and a bundle or two. Now you could say, but this is different, but i think it´s similar enough.
They could also launch them separately. If the Handheld launches first, i´d expect it to come out in september-october and the home console in November for the holidays. Since the console will most likely be more expensive, i think the holiday $$$ are more important for it.
If the home console launches first, i´d still expect it launch for holiday 2016, because holiday $$$ and the Handheld Q1 2017, since the Handheld will (hopefully, most likely) be below 200$ and that is more of a purchase price for the regular year.
Ugh, i can´t wait. New console launches are always hype, and Nintendo especially so because they always do something new, different and unexpected. For better or worse. But always exciting.
At the Q3 earnings report, i would only expect a time frame for the announcements to be made. The investors will be hungry for info, since they want to know what Nintendo is doing with their money. And i don´t think they can just say, "more info in 2016". WE ALREADY BE IN 2016!
The reveal or full reveal at E3 and launch 5-6 months later doesn´t sound crazy to be honest. Announcement to launch has been getting shorter for pretty much everything nowadays. 18 months for a console is obviously crazy nowadays. Sony´s 9 months and MS´s 6 months are about right. (MS screwed up with the product and idea, not the time frame. Yeah, they could have changed for the better with more time, but that´s only relevant if you´re an asshole about it.)
I think we will see a similar price range to what the Wii U uses nowadays.
$40 for low budget/Portable heavy games (Game & Wario, Captain Toad),
$50 for games more on the middle budget or ports (Donkey Kong Country, Mario Tennis, Wind Waker)
$60 for AAA games (Xenoblade, Mario 3D, Zelda U)
$50 is going to be the sweetspot. If the NX handheld is as powerful as the Wii U I don't see why it won't be the standard. And if the rewards system that Nintendo is releasing is good it will work in their favor.
But as always I think the price will have a lot to do with what Nintendo or the Publisher would think is the appropriate price for it to sell. For example, I think Pokemon might jump to $50 and people would still buy it, even if its a handheld heavy game.
I could see the handheld coming first due to the age of the system, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if the home console is being rushed and the proposal for having the handheld and home console be similar/streamlined being spurred from this increased pressure to get a home console out asap due to the Wii U flopping. They must be doing crazy hours at Nintendo to get this shit ready for next year never mind this year.
Thanks for saying that. This is my exact feel on this topic, It made sense for the Big 'N to keep a PowerPC architecture in the Wii but definitely did not make sense in the Wii U because it was already so far behind. NO matter how much they might have had that CPU modded / upgraded, you can only do so much on an old piece of hardware. I'll be welcoming the next home console with arms wide opened. I hope they come up with a total new architecture for the new NX handheld as well.
- Status