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[Xyphie]

PS2 went from using 250nm to 90nm lithography in that timespan, that's 4 full node shrinks or so. PS4 got 1 (28nm > 16nm). PS5 may very well end up not getting a single full node shrink during its lifespan.

 

[DenchDeckard]

They are still not making a profit on hardware. They lost money the previous fiscal year on hardware and this fiscal year they are forecasting less losses from hardware but still not profit.

I remember the internet narrative being formed that they made a profit after the first 6 months because of one quote from Sony "Forecasting" that they would turn a profit within the next year, ignoring all the price increases from Covid and that the market never truly settled.

 

[Mephisto40]

No point in cutting the price until sales slow down

 

[winjer]

Because TSMC is charging a lot more for newer process nodes.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I remember reading about how spinning hard drives had reached the floor of pricing because it was already as cheap as it could get with basic building materials. The motors, bearings, casing, Connectors all had a price.
I wonder if consoles have reached that state.
edit-basically they could go up in storage space but they couldn't go down in price any more.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

I remember the internet narrative being formed that they made a profit after the first 6 months because of one quote from Sony "Forecasting" that they would turn a profit within the next year, ignoring all the price increases from Covid and that the market never truly settled.

That was the disc model. Not the digital model (when it was $399 MSRP)

 

[hououinkyouma00]

Generally technology gets cheaper as time goes by because materials get cheaper as time goes by. Materials don't really get all that cheaper nowadays, and combine that with how the economy in general is and it's not a good combination.

Unfortunately the days of price cuts, and super slim systems is over. The PS2 had dropped 50% according to a wiki I found in around the same time frame that the PS5 has been out. Hell the failure of the GameCube had dropped 50% in 2 years lol.

 

[FewRope]

Because people actually bought more PS5 after the price rise lol

 

[The ninja farmer]

Because TSMC is charging a lot more for newer process nodes.

This is a major factor, I would think

The ps5 had went from 7 down to 6 and I also think it stayed on 6nm for the slim.

Was it the df look over of the Sony docs, that had them thinking that the pro would also be 6nm as well and that this indicated lack of a lower node availability and/or cost ? (Based on clock frequencies and other bits in the Sony doc)

So no cost reductions on node shrinks and reworking the console for less power, smaller parts. Plus I would think memory and component prices aren’t dropping by much, even as the tech ages out (memory, ssd chips, and ram caches that are also not being ‘shrunk’)

So like the ps4 & pro. They might gets changes here and there. But a major cost reduction will probably be what we have seen already. With temp cuts that eat the possibly already slim profits of the regular cost (and then there is just inflation increases all over the supply pipeline)

Then you have the companies who get or will pay or get priority in the queue for chips from tmsc and the latest node. You would think nvidia and apple will crush or out pay amd (and that impacts on console chips)

Amd will also have a list of priority products, so Sony and Microsoft have to deal with that side (see the previous ‘availability’ of products around console launches or sales forecasts) and not being able to secure what they want, even with contracts being signed with amd to supply the chips many years ago

I miss the days of a ps1/2 for £99 or the n64 taking a monster price drop a couple of months after its launch. but that just what happens with new tech now I guess (and that people are willing to pay more, or go for inflated scalper prices)

 

[Ceadeus]

I haven't bought a game for the thing for 4 years too

 

[winjer]

This is a major factor, I would think

The ps5 had went from 7 down to 6 and I also think it stayed on 6nm for the slim.

Was it the df look over of the Sony docs, that had them thinking that the pro would also be 6nm as well and that this indicated lack of a lower node availability and/or cost ? (Based on clock frequencies and other bits in the Sony doc)

So no cost reductions on node shrinks and reworking the console for less power, smaller parts. Plus I would think memory and component prices aren’t dropping by much, even as the tech ages out (memory, ssd chips, and ram caches that are also not being ‘shrunk’)

So like the ps4 & pro. They might gets changes here and there. But a major cost reduction will probably be what we have seen already. With temp cuts that eat the possibly already slim profits of the regular cost (and then there is just inflation increases all over the supply pipeline)

Then you have the companies who get or will pay or get priority in the queue for chips from tmsc and the latest node. You would think nvidia and apple will crush or out pay amd (and that impacts on console chips)

Amd will also have a list of priority products, so Sony and Microsoft have to deal with that side (see the previous ‘availability’ of products around console launches or sales forecasts) and not being able to secure what they want, even with contracts being signed with amd to supply the chips many years ago

I miss the days of a ps1/2 for £99 or the n64 taking a monster price drop a couple of months after its launch. but that just what happens with new tech now I guess (and that people are willing to pay more, or go for inflated scalper prices)

But remember that N6 is just an improvement over N7. They are essentially, the same node.
It's N5 that is the real new node.

 

[N1tr0sOx1d3]

Sony has been particularly tight this gen. Not sure if the margins are there or not but PS5, PSVR2, Dualsense Edge, Game sales etc haven’t seen the price reductions we used to enjoy. Again, not sure if global conditions are affecting price reductions (inflation) or if Sony are just maintaining their margins for as long as they can.

 

[The ninja farmer]

But remember that N6 is just an improvement over N7. They are essentially, the same node.
It's N5 that is the real new node.

I totally agree but even after the 7 to 6 switch Sony was able to make changes and why the cooling system was changed and then a slim appeared. If not any rrp reduction (maybe yields also improved with slightly smaller chips against any possible cost per wafer increases)

but I guess until the bigger guns move onto smaller nodes and/or tmsc reduce the wafer costs. Then this stops all sorts of good things (more performance, less heat or power, price cuts, more chips per wafer, etc …. Depending on what direction Sony wanted to go in)

But being on 6. They are kinda stuck for now and what that means for a ps5 pros capabilities

maybe they know a node shrink is a little further out ?

but I’m sure being on even n5 for launch would have resulted in faster frequencies, or less cooling and cheaper bom outside of the apu cost. being on n6 pretty much sticks the clocks forever, and limits any iterations to console size for cooling & thermals and power usage. Unless they do a pro, pro

 

[DonF]

The PS2 sold like water in desert and it got multiple price cuts.

different times. also had lots of games, so maybe they got more money from licensing than hardware. also the hardware simpler and sold as a cheap DVD player. Very different times and consoles.

 

[dragonyeuw]

Manufacturing costs haven't dropped like in prior gens 3-4 years in, and it's not like their primary HD twin competitor MS is applying competitive pressure as far as hardware sales go.

 

[Moses85]

Here in Germany it is often available for a reduced price. Slim with DD 399€

It is stupid to pay the full price…

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

No point in cutting the price until sales slow down

They're already down, i.e tracking slightly behind PS4 launch-aligned globally, potentially ~ 5 million behind PS4 launch-aligned in Europe.

But Totoki has already said they (SIE, also Sony Corp) are more interested in maximizing profits. Therefore cutting the price is counter-productive for them at this time. They might do so if/when the PS5 Pro releases later in November.

As usual, I don't say any of this to suggest I agree with the decision behind it. Just wanted to add a bit of clarity.

Because TSMC is charging a lot more for newer process nodes.

But PS5 is on 6nm which is a more cost-efficient 7nm. Basically, this chart isn't reflective of pricing issues for the PS5's APU/SOC; 6nm isn't even here and if it were it would probably show the same flat YOY rates as 7nm and 5nm.

 

[Kokoloko85]

I dont think there was a price cut for PS4 until PS4 Pro came. Probably will be the same for PS5 probably
Why hasnt Switch had a price cut?

 

[winjer]

But PS5 is on 6nm which is a more cost-efficient 7nm. Basically, this chart isn't reflective of pricing issues for the PS5's APU/SOC; 6nm isn't even here and if it were it would probably show the same flat YOY rates as 7nm and 5nm.

N6 is a derivation of N7. So it's cost per wafer is probably very similar.
The advantage of N6 is that is has a 15% area reduction. So it's possible to extract more chips per wafer, lowering costs by a similar margin.

We also know that the defect rate for N7, N6 are similar, at around 0.09 per cm². N5 is a just slightly higher, at 0.1.

 

[DragonNCM]

No competition from Xbox.....Switch is in good place.....why they would cut price for PS5 ?

 

[Euler007]

Inflation is the price cut. It's down to 413.36$ in 2020 dollars.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Because manufacturing costs, improved technology and factor in the competition, taxes, better cooling (technology).

 

[magnumpy]

you're talking about the past, like when the SNES got sold at a new low price

but that was the past. welcome to the new normal

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

N6 is a derivation of N7. So it's cost per wafer is probably very similar.
The advantage of N6 is that is has a 15% area reduction. So it's possible to extract more chips per wafer, lowering costs by a similar margin.

We also know that the defect rate for N7, N6 are similar, at around 0.09 per cm². N5 is a just slightly higher, at 0.1.

Right, so if it's 15% area reduction, using the same wafer sizes then Sony are saving 15% in wafer costs, all things considered. Not that they are "saving" 15% due to keeping same wafer capacity, it's just on the wafer front they're getting 15% more value out of each one when it comes to the cost.

It's more likely that costs aside from the wafers are what would make production costs more expensive vs. 2021/2022 to impact a rush for global price drops. The RAM costs may not be any different, for example. PCB costs are maybe not too much cheaper, the custom ASIC for I/O could be the same price, shell casing components same costs etc. Not to mention the costs relative rates of inflation.

 

[Bond007]

Im gonna go with- it's still selling great at its current price.
No competition
Lastly, with a pending pro- they can drop it when that arrives and show a perceived bargain.

 

[winjer]

Right, so if it's 15% area reduction, using the same wafer sizes then Sony are saving 15% in wafer costs, all things considered. Not that they are "saving" 15% due to keeping same wafer capacity, it's just on the wafer front they're getting 15% more value out of each one when it comes to the cost.

It's more likely that costs aside from the wafers are what would make production costs more expensive vs. 2021/2022 to impact a rush for global price drops. The RAM costs may not be any different, for example. PCB costs are maybe not too much cheaper, the custom ASIC for I/O could be the same price, shell casing components same costs etc. Not to mention the costs relative rates of inflation.

I think the cost of the SoC chip was around 50-60 dollars. So if there is a reduction in cost of 15%, that means it saves 8-9$ per chip at N6.
Its not much in a console that costs 400-500$. It helps making the console more cost effective. But it's not the kind of thing that makes a huge difference to make a big reduction in price.
N6 barely improves on ISO power. So there is no savings in the power delivery system. Sony did redesign the cooling system, but was because it was more efficient. Not because the console was producing much less heat.
A reduction to N5, could mean, not only more chips out of a wafer. But also a simpler power delivery system and cooling, which then translate into cost savings.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

PS2 went from using 250nm to 90nm lithography in that timespan, that's 4 full node shrinks or so. PS4 got 1 (28nm > 16nm). PS5 may very well end up not getting a single full node shrink during its lifespan.

In hindsight it is amazing what developers were able to get out of the PS2. It wasn't even special in 2000.

 

[Metnut]

The cost has significantly decreased. Look up inflation.

 

[Aenima]

Supply and Demand.

As long thers demand for it and ppl keep buying it at full price, thers no reason to drop the price.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Times are different. There is less pressure because other companies arent cutting their prices..they are all preserving the launch price, and it's not negatively impacting sales. So they have no reason to do it at this juncture..

It is. They're behind ps4 which should have gotten one in 2019 to reach mass market price and far behind where they could be. So far less software and sub sales and harder to get exclusivity deals because of a smaller install base. Now luckily for them the competition is even worse this gen AND since their price of manufacturing hasn't gone down to where they could be profitable at $400 for the popular model they're doing ok.

They could be at switch/PS2 levels if they'd price cut like usual with all the extra profits of today

 

[SHA]

Idk, no games maybe.

 

[tmlDan]

go do some research on the economy and come back with your own conclusion.

 

[username12]

Sony was building a brand with PS2. They're done fighting to earn your business.

 

[KungFucius]

I have seen it discounted many times, but currently it is at MSRP. Probably going to see a little deal over Prime days since all retailers compete.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I think the cost of the SoC chip was around 50-60 dollars. So if there is a reduction in cost of 15%, that means it saves 8-9$ per chip at N6.
Its not much in a console that costs 400-500$. It helps making the console more cost effective. But it's not the kind of thing that makes a huge difference to make a big reduction in price.
N6 barely improves on ISO power. So there is no savings in the power delivery system. Sony did redesign the cooling system, but was because it was more efficient. Not because the console was producing much less heat.
A reduction to N5, could mean, not only more chips out of a wafer. But also a simpler power delivery system and cooling, which then translate into cost savings.

That $9 per system adds up, though. If they manufacture say 18 million in a FY, that's saving them $162 million in production costs.

Moving to N5 might have the benefits you mention, but the cost of it is higher price per chip. It'd more than wipe out the savings from N6 for wafers, so the reduction in costs would have to come from getting cheaper RAM, cheaper NAND storage for the internal SSD, yet more redesigns for the cooling and power to reduce costs (if its possible), retooling and costs for a smaller shell casing (that might require R&D costs), etc.