NormalFish
Banned
GW1, a game being widely praised in this thread, has far less vertical progression.
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Why isn't Guild Wars 2 more popular?
- Thread starter Larson Conway
- Start date
GW1, a game being widely praised in this thread, has far less vertical progression.
Spiritwalker
Member
I just find it boring. And no holy trinity didn't work out nearly as well as I had hoped.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Guild Wars 2 is one of my favorite games. I think it's amazing and have almost 3000 hours clogged in the game. I highly recommend that people try to play it, but that they try to approach it differently from games like WoW. It's really amazing when its played with blind exploration in mind.
Well, the game is quite popular. Before it went Free 2 Play and its expansion hit, it had reached more than 7 million and now after it went F2P it has more players than ever.
I do think that on GAF there are more people who play games Final Fantasy XIV, but the game seems to be doing very well and has a lot of players.
There is a MMO youtube called Lazy Peon who did a first impression of the title. He completely misunderstood the game, and how it's supposed to play, so he went back and played it later after receiving a lot of angry messages, and then he managed to get it.
I've talked to a lot of people who initially didn't like the game, but after giving it a second chance and approaching it differently, the game clicked with them.
The game is different and is many ways a antihesis of the standard themepark MMO.
They don't increase the level cap, the game rewards player skill over time investment and grinding, the grinding and cash shop items are almost sorely about vanity skins.
The game is generous with it's leveling structure. The game rewards exploration. It has an amazing art direction and music. The game is nearly never down for maintenance, you can set your own goals and work towards the things you want to get regardless if you do pve, wvw, pvp, dungeons, fractals or whatever.
the game has a very unique mix of action combat and traditional tab-targeting that makes it different.
The game has the best cash shop I've seen. when they introduce new weapon skins in the cash shop, those are easily accuired on the marketplace with 50-150 gold, which doesn't take a lot of time to get.
I think the game has some of the best animations (except for Black Desert). I love things like how your character is rooted in the world, and your characters ankle and foot detects individual rocks, or stones. There is this weighted sense to moving your character, and since they introduced TERA style reticle aiming with the expansion, it reminds me a lot of jedi knight and mount and blade now, with how you "aim" with your mouse. It makes the game incredible to play.
I love the maps. Exploring GW2s insane maps is more of a challenge than I've seen in any other game of its type. Some of the new maps are completely fucked up in a vertical layout, and I think that many of the puzzles and events in hard to reach places make the game challenging.
And I love the massive battles of running around with 250 other players to take down massive bosses or engage in massive pvp. I love how they destroyed the main city in the game during an event.
I love all the improvements they've made to the story after the main games lackluster story.
To me it's one of the most unique and forward thinking games I've ever played. It has a lot of design that has been co-opted and introduced in other MMOs, but rarely ever as good.
GW2 has an amazing wardrobe, and multiple character sharing. It has a really solid achievement system. It has the best streaming tech I've seen. I like the UI, the controls, the community.
The sPvP is better now than it has ever been. Frankly it's fucking awesome. It's amazing they've nailed something good after 4 years. The expansion introduced healers and more soft roles which added a lot of cool gameplay to existing classes.
I love how GW2 goes horizontal in its progression. Instead of just upping the level cap and introducing higher tier gear they try to introduce new gameplay, and ways to play without just falling on a hamster wheel trap.
There are plenty of grindy carrots you can pursue. If you're the type of person who needs goals you can spend incredible amount of time on getting rare e-peen skins or whatever, but its not optional. end game gear is easily obtained.
As a result, GW2 is a game I can return to. I can leave it, and come back to it without feeling like it's a chore.
Most other MMOs are a fucking chore of going to this place to this place. When I play games like FFXIV I don't like seeing other players because they block my ability to progress in the game. Other players are a hinderance to being able to do the quests. In GW2, more players for events spawns more monsters, which equals more fun and more loot.
Other players a boon, and that reflects in the community.
More than anything I just like how cool people are in the game. I'm playing Black Desert now, and I love it, but people are such assholes, and since there is no moderation, it is becoming intolerable and just attracts more and more people who are driven to the game, because it's perfectly normal to spam hateful shit. Every day, all channels. ugh.
Well, the game is quite popular. Before it went Free 2 Play and its expansion hit, it had reached more than 7 million and now after it went F2P it has more players than ever.
I do think that on GAF there are more people who play games Final Fantasy XIV, but the game seems to be doing very well and has a lot of players.
There is a MMO youtube called Lazy Peon who did a first impression of the title. He completely misunderstood the game, and how it's supposed to play, so he went back and played it later after receiving a lot of angry messages, and then he managed to get it.
I've talked to a lot of people who initially didn't like the game, but after giving it a second chance and approaching it differently, the game clicked with them.
The game is different and is many ways a antihesis of the standard themepark MMO.
They don't increase the level cap, the game rewards player skill over time investment and grinding, the grinding and cash shop items are almost sorely about vanity skins.
The game is generous with it's leveling structure. The game rewards exploration. It has an amazing art direction and music. The game is nearly never down for maintenance, you can set your own goals and work towards the things you want to get regardless if you do pve, wvw, pvp, dungeons, fractals or whatever.
the game has a very unique mix of action combat and traditional tab-targeting that makes it different.
The game has the best cash shop I've seen. when they introduce new weapon skins in the cash shop, those are easily accuired on the marketplace with 50-150 gold, which doesn't take a lot of time to get.
I think the game has some of the best animations (except for Black Desert). I love things like how your character is rooted in the world, and your characters ankle and foot detects individual rocks, or stones. There is this weighted sense to moving your character, and since they introduced TERA style reticle aiming with the expansion, it reminds me a lot of jedi knight and mount and blade now, with how you "aim" with your mouse. It makes the game incredible to play.
I love the maps. Exploring GW2s insane maps is more of a challenge than I've seen in any other game of its type. Some of the new maps are completely fucked up in a vertical layout, and I think that many of the puzzles and events in hard to reach places make the game challenging.
And I love the massive battles of running around with 250 other players to take down massive bosses or engage in massive pvp. I love how they destroyed the main city in the game during an event.
I love all the improvements they've made to the story after the main games lackluster story.
To me it's one of the most unique and forward thinking games I've ever played. It has a lot of design that has been co-opted and introduced in other MMOs, but rarely ever as good.
GW2 has an amazing wardrobe, and multiple character sharing. It has a really solid achievement system. It has the best streaming tech I've seen. I like the UI, the controls, the community.
The sPvP is better now than it has ever been. Frankly it's fucking awesome. It's amazing they've nailed something good after 4 years. The expansion introduced healers and more soft roles which added a lot of cool gameplay to existing classes.
I love how GW2 goes horizontal in its progression. Instead of just upping the level cap and introducing higher tier gear they try to introduce new gameplay, and ways to play without just falling on a hamster wheel trap.
There are plenty of grindy carrots you can pursue. If you're the type of person who needs goals you can spend incredible amount of time on getting rare e-peen skins or whatever, but its not optional. end game gear is easily obtained.
As a result, GW2 is a game I can return to. I can leave it, and come back to it without feeling like it's a chore.
Most other MMOs are a fucking chore of going to this place to this place. When I play games like FFXIV I don't like seeing other players because they block my ability to progress in the game. Other players are a hinderance to being able to do the quests. In GW2, more players for events spawns more monsters, which equals more fun and more loot.
Other players a boon, and that reflects in the community.
More than anything I just like how cool people are in the game. I'm playing Black Desert now, and I love it, but people are such assholes, and since there is no moderation, it is becoming intolerable and just attracts more and more people who are driven to the game, because it's perfectly normal to spam hateful shit. Every day, all channels. ugh.
The only thing GW2 combat does right is their movement and dodging. I can't go back to playing hotkey MMOs where I'm rooted in place as I do rotations endlessly without dodges or fluid movement, a lot of skills emphasize this and include jumps/dashes and is one of its saving graces. The enemy encounters are just horrible for 95% of the game though and never make use of any of it. Especially the dungeons. I remember one time during the Pavilion event where you had to solo a boss called Liadri and the combat system really shined in that encounter. I hear raids are also quite good but it's too little too late.
Geminosity
Member
I wasn't a GW1 fan so I don't have much attachment to the brand or the way it handled things before but GW2's combat felt like a plane trying to fly from traditional MMO combat to action combat that crashed, burned and incinerated any survivors somewhere between.
As a combat action junkie GW2 sticking to 'targetted' combat felt clunky and there's not much in the way of commitment or tactics from second to second. I effectively felt like this was PvE to me:
Aka "if it's not on cooldown, press it!"
For me, I'd rather battle using Tera or PSO's combat system due to no tab targeting, committing to attacks, actual hitboxes and not having so many effects onscreen that you can't even tell what's going on sometimes
Now, i'm sure there might be some out there that could tell me that at x point in the game there's strategy or tactics or finesse or whatever, but the game failed to engage me long enough to reach said point. Heck, I even spent a good long time trying to make the combat interesting to myself by attempting to create a character that could fight without getting hit (which is remarkably difficult due to some PvE enemies having ranged attacks with a fast cooldown; Fast enough to run you out of dodges and other abilities so they'll eventually hit you no matter what)
The problem is, the half-way house of the dodge system and whatnot also tends to mean it doesn't seem to appeal to more traditional MMO combat fans either. It's a very unhappy medium to me.
The living quests are a nice idea but after doing a few it very quickly became apparent that a lot of them didn't have a meaningful enough effect to really merit doing them outside of gaining rewards so people weren't particularly motivated to keep doing them and keep the 'status quo' and the few that DID have meaningful effects didn't seem to scale very well so if you couldn't find enough people to help drive centaurs out of the NPC village then tough, you ain't doing any quests in it
I dunno. The jumping challenges could be fun I guess? I saw some peeps in the thread here who enjoyed those too XD
It just felt like a mixed bag in areas that needed a more strongly refined direction and just oddly empty in others. I don't think it's a bad game, but it really didn't do itself any favours with it's combat system, and this is coming from someone who doesn't even care about the holy trinity and has enjoyed games that didn't have them :/
As a combat action junkie GW2 sticking to 'targetted' combat felt clunky and there's not much in the way of commitment or tactics from second to second. I effectively felt like this was PvE to me:
Aka "if it's not on cooldown, press it!"
For me, I'd rather battle using Tera or PSO's combat system due to no tab targeting, committing to attacks, actual hitboxes and not having so many effects onscreen that you can't even tell what's going on sometimes
Now, i'm sure there might be some out there that could tell me that at x point in the game there's strategy or tactics or finesse or whatever, but the game failed to engage me long enough to reach said point. Heck, I even spent a good long time trying to make the combat interesting to myself by attempting to create a character that could fight without getting hit (which is remarkably difficult due to some PvE enemies having ranged attacks with a fast cooldown; Fast enough to run you out of dodges and other abilities so they'll eventually hit you no matter what)
The problem is, the half-way house of the dodge system and whatnot also tends to mean it doesn't seem to appeal to more traditional MMO combat fans either. It's a very unhappy medium to me.
The living quests are a nice idea but after doing a few it very quickly became apparent that a lot of them didn't have a meaningful enough effect to really merit doing them outside of gaining rewards so people weren't particularly motivated to keep doing them and keep the 'status quo' and the few that DID have meaningful effects didn't seem to scale very well so if you couldn't find enough people to help drive centaurs out of the NPC village then tough, you ain't doing any quests in it
I dunno. The jumping challenges could be fun I guess? I saw some peeps in the thread here who enjoyed those too XD
It just felt like a mixed bag in areas that needed a more strongly refined direction and just oddly empty in others. I don't think it's a bad game, but it really didn't do itself any favours with it's combat system, and this is coming from someone who doesn't even care about the holy trinity and has enjoyed games that didn't have them :/
You can complain about a lot of things in GW2, but art? Seriously?
This was my feeling too, everyone I played with at the time in my group all said "what if this had more abilities like wow(/other mmos) and not the tiny amount we have here".
I wanted to heal at first, but it did a paltry amount when I played; so yeah the lack of trinity as well was really disappointing. Tried a few dungeons and it didn't feel fun like in other games, couldn't put my finger on it.
They did one thing right that I'm disappointing lots of other MMO's have yet to follow:
Level scaling, so you can play with your friends no matter how far behind they are and also sharing completion % for almost everything you do in the world and also so you're not waiting for this 1 item to spawn for everyone in your group on a 5 minute timer between each person.
At least that's what I remember.
Also holy shit the elementalist game play was as Geminosity put it; press everything, switch element, spam again, switch, spam, rinse repeat.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
The combat always felt like a chore to me. Don't even get me started on underwater combat. The level scaling turned me off as well.
It's a very beautiful MMO though and I love exploring the world. But, as a PVE player, I just never could get into the combat and dungeons.
It's a very beautiful MMO though and I love exploring the world. But, as a PVE player, I just never could get into the combat and dungeons.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Yeah, the one thing GW2 completely demolishes every other MMO out there is it's artstyle.
Dandy Lyin
Member
I loved it when they were updating the game constantly! I played all the time. But as the time between updates became longer and longer, I started only logging in when new stuff was added, playing for a week, then shelving it again. Then Heart of Thorns came out, and was a huge disappointment for me. The mastery grind, the very short campaign, dumping dungeons and adding raids, the buggy final mission(after having to restart it 3 times because of bugs I quit).
I honestly don't see myself going back to it now. There are too many other things to devour my time.
I honestly don't see myself going back to it now. There are too many other things to devour my time.
I guess personally I just never liked how it looked?
The other aspect for a long time was the name, it really seems to advertise group play and PvP (no idea if that is accurate or not, just guessing from the name) which for me, as a dude who basically forces solo play as much as possible in MMOs, just didn't seem like a good fit.
I know these are two hilarious "reasons" but just trying to provide an idea why people who know very little about this game may have sidestepped it.
The other aspect for a long time was the name, it really seems to advertise group play and PvP (no idea if that is accurate or not, just guessing from the name) which for me, as a dude who basically forces solo play as much as possible in MMOs, just didn't seem like a good fit.
I know these are two hilarious "reasons" but just trying to provide an idea why people who know very little about this game may have sidestepped it.
It's closer to WoW than it is to Guild Wars 1.
i quit(the second time i quit, come to think of it) just before the expansion dropped ¯_(ツ
_/¯
Memnoch
Member
I did as well and thought it was pretty forgettable.
BrokenSymmetry
Member
Guild Wars 1 was an amazing game, in which I have spend more than 2000 hours. It's also amazing how much content was produced for it in its first 3 years:
- April 2005: Prophecies
- September 2005: Sorrow's Furnace
- April 2006: Factions
- October 2006: Nightfall
- August 2007: Eye of the North
Guild Wars 2 was and is a beautiful game, with at times a great world, but with boring combat and character builds, and a completely non-story.
- April 2005: Prophecies
- September 2005: Sorrow's Furnace
- April 2006: Factions
- October 2006: Nightfall
- August 2007: Eye of the North
Guild Wars 2 was and is a beautiful game, with at times a great world, but with boring combat and character builds, and a completely non-story.
Skill system was shit compared GW1 - The skills in GW1 acted like Magic the Gathering cards. Each skill did something simple and you loaded a 'deck' of 10 skills at Town before playing PVE or PVP. You had 1000s of unique builds and a whole meta of builds (game was sometimes called Build Wars) you had everything from 55 HP monks, aura devishes, pet or touch rangers, hammer rangers, interupt rangers, pet rangers (ranger was my fav) and othet stuff.
In GW2 the skills are typical MMO WOW shit but with added stuff like shooting arrows through firw to make fire arrows. It was uninteresting and destroyed what made a large part of what made GW1 fan to me.
Add on top of that the generic MMO quest system, the fact the game is a zerg rush, the terrible cutscenes, generic characters, open world nature and thats the reason why GW1 vets like me stayed the fuck away. I seriously cant a single memorable character in GW2 as they all look the same and are voiced by the same actor and the cutscenes and story SUCK.
In GW2 the skills are typical MMO WOW shit but with added stuff like shooting arrows through firw to make fire arrows. It was uninteresting and destroyed what made a large part of what made GW1 fan to me.
Add on top of that the generic MMO quest system, the fact the game is a zerg rush, the terrible cutscenes, generic characters, open world nature and thats the reason why GW1 vets like me stayed the fuck away. I seriously cant a single memorable character in GW2 as they all look the same and are voiced by the same actor and the cutscenes and story SUCK.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I wasn't a GW1 fan so I don't have much attachment to the brand or the way it handled things before but GW2's combat felt like a plane trying to fly from traditional MMO combat to action combat that crashed, burned and incinerated any survivors somewhere between.
As a combat action junkie GW2 sticking to 'targetted' combat felt clunky and there's not much in the way of commitment or tactics from second to second. I effectively felt like this was PvE to me:
Aka "if it's not on cooldown, press it!"
For me, I'd rather battle using Tera or PSO's combat system due to no tab targeting, committing to attacks, actual hitboxes and not having so many effects onscreen that you can't even tell what's going on sometimes
Now, i'm sure there might be some out there that could tell me that at x point in the game there's strategy or tactics or finesse or whatever, but the game failed to engage me long enough to reach said point. Heck, I even spent a good long time trying to make the combat interesting to myself by attempting to create a character that could fight without getting hit (which is remarkably difficult due to some PvE enemies having ranged attacks with a fast cooldown; Fast enough to run you out of dodges and other abilities so they'll eventually hit you no matter what)
The problem is, the half-way house of the dodge system and whatnot also tends to mean it doesn't seem to appeal to more traditional MMO combat fans either. It's a very unhappy medium to me.
It just felt like a mixed bag in areas that needed a more strongly refined direction and just oddly empty in others. I don't think it's a bad game, but it really didn't do itself any favours with it's combat system, and this is coming from someone who doesn't even care about the holy trinity and has enjoyed games that didn't have them :/
They did add TERA-style aiming in the expansion. It works even better than TERA thanks to the lack of animation rooting. Its really awesome. Plays like Jedi Knight now when you're running around with a melee weapon aiming at people.
But more pressingly, are you really sure you understood the game, if what you got out of the game was "if it's not a cooldown, press it".
When you pick up a weapon, that weapon will usually have effects that you know from other MMOs- DOTs, gap closers, snares, escapes, AOE, single target, whatever.
If I used your argument and said that the combat of MMORPG X or Y was shit because I just pressed everything if it was not on a cooldown, would you say that that showed a lack of understanding of that games combat system?
I don't think that GW2 has clunky combat. It's very tight, animation wise, and it has a lot of flexibility and creativity in how you can create a character. Learning to dodge well, or getting escapes is something you become later in the game. Partially through your own skills, and partially through the upgrades you apply to your armor and weapons which transforms and evolves the abillities of your core skills.
I find the animation to be among the best I've seen (outside of BDO). The way the ankle of the foot responds to small rocks, bricks and surfaces is awesome. And I love the razor sharp Q and E strafing that really makes the game feel responsive.
The game is based around having two weapons. Each weapon you pick is supposed to be its own playstyle (a rework of GW1s dual class system, but pruned the clutter), so changing your weapon on the fly makes the game about using two swapable skill systems in conjuction- with the secondary skills, your heal, utillities and elite which you choose from a larger deck.
Dandy Lyin
Member
That doesn't make it a WoW clone though.
It's not a given that FFXIV has more active players than GW2 in general.
It's a very safe assumption at this point in time just because of the new expansion but after the novelty dies down FFXIV's population tends to cut down quite a bit (speaking as an on-and-off player).
I think GW2 does very well for itself. WoW is just WoW and nothing can compare.
Also, FFXIV presence on NeoGAF is due to PS4 and not reflective of the wider gaming audience. If you looked at the Overwatch OT or threads in general at certain points in time with that misconception, you'd think the PS4 version of the game was the most popular or that the combined console versions even amounted to half of the player base (which it doesn't).
It's a very safe assumption at this point in time just because of the new expansion but after the novelty dies down FFXIV's population tends to cut down quite a bit (speaking as an on-and-off player).
I think GW2 does very well for itself. WoW is just WoW and nothing can compare.
Also, FFXIV presence on NeoGAF is due to PS4 and not reflective of the wider gaming audience. If you looked at the Overwatch OT or threads in general at certain points in time with that misconception, you'd think the PS4 version of the game was the most popular or that the combined console versions even amounted to half of the player base (which it doesn't).
NormalFish
Banned
I main a venoms thief.
My rotation:
1. All utilities on CD
2. Deathblossom until 0 initiative
3. dodge
4. auto attack
5. deathblossom
6. repeat 3-5
That's pretty fucking mashy. Some classes (engineers) have complex rotations, but dps roles have pretty simple rotations.
Reasons why I didn't like GW2
1. I got to level 25 and I yet to see a dungeon. That's way too long, also I've been told that there's a lack of dungeons in the game.
2. I didn't care at all for the story. If an MMO is going to make me do solo content til level 30 the story should be interesting, but it wasn't.
3. Didn't like the combat
4. As someone who likes playing healer in MMOs GW2 really isn't for me.
1. I got to level 25 and I yet to see a dungeon. That's way too long, also I've been told that there's a lack of dungeons in the game.
2. I didn't care at all for the story. If an MMO is going to make me do solo content til level 30 the story should be interesting, but it wasn't.
3. Didn't like the combat
4. As someone who likes playing healer in MMOs GW2 really isn't for me.
I didn't like GW2 but you get the first dungeon at lvl 20.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I'm a GW1 vet to, and I think the skill system is vastly superior in GW2.
First of all- Having many hundreds of skills doesn't guarantee complexity. In fact, many skills in GW1 lacked substance, impact, and even their own visual animations or sounds. Many many many skills (the vast majority) where carbon copy skills of one another that differed in slight skill descriptions like "0.2 less seconds in X" or "0.4 more in Y".
They were by their very nature making the game cluttered.
GW2s system took the dual class system and condcensed it down to weapons as its own class. It makes it more manageable to balance, but retains strategy.
My main is a Warrior, and builds I've run with him are; Gap closer, AOE farmer, PvP bunker, shout healer, frontline support, ranged kiter, jack of all trades, adrenaline healer, support banner.
You can play your character in a fuck ton of ways that are as meaningful in GW2, if not more. And it comes with much higher quality skills, that are detailed enough for you to not be forced to look at your hotbar and your hp/stamina/energy meter.
Secondly, by the time factions and nightfall came out, the balance fell out of the window. They were completely unable to keep things under control due to the exponential addition of skills being added. It was a total mess, and it speaks to the fact that GW1 never became the e-sport PvP game that ArenaNet had hoped for.
Secondly, the thing you critique the game for; shit characters, terrible cutscenes, generic characters, bad story- These are things that were way way way worse in GW1.
GW2 actually has a good story added to it in the post game. Not as good as FFXIV or SWTOR, but quite enjoyable.
Was it always like that? I remember talking to 2 friends about it and they said it was level 30.
How do I gain access to the dungeon?
-Pyromaniac-
Member
It was pretty boring/unengaging. I only played PvE but it was basically just working your fingers through the rotation over and over and over and there was no real strategy or engaging fun of any kind. Getting to that point was pretty ok but once you get there I just felt like I didn't want to continue.
My interest in the game lives and dies with my interest in Engineer. It's the only profession in the game that I liked. I quit around the time Captain Scarlett came along because at that point, Engineer was just no fun to play and was weaker than every other profession in PvE and PvP.
Every so often I look at the Engineer forums to see if I want to go back. The answer has been no since before HoT was released. If an Engineer build ever pops up that doesn't require constant kit swapping to achieve good results, I'd be interested. I guess if they balance the kits so that you can do well with just 1 or 2, every Engineer who is used to using 3+ would be OP though. Oh well.
Every so often I look at the Engineer forums to see if I want to go back. The answer has been no since before HoT was released. If an Engineer build ever pops up that doesn't require constant kit swapping to achieve good results, I'd be interested. I guess if they balance the kits so that you can do well with just 1 or 2, every Engineer who is used to using 3+ would be OP though. Oh well.
It is level 30. Don't know where he is getting the level 20 thing, but that isn't the case.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
My experience in other MMOs have been that many games in the end have classes with simple rotations.
In GW2 it certainly depends on what you're doing. What's your secondary weapon, and your utillities skills, and what do you use depending on what mode?
On most of my character I have most of my skills in play in situational ways depending on what I am doing. 5x2 weapon skills, F skills, 3x utllity skills, 1x heal, 1x elite. That's a lot while running around dodging, being your own cleanser and healer.
GW2 shares something with the potion spam MMOs in that it's quite self sustained per player.
But a deeper question; is more complex rotations more fun? Because I don't feel more engaged by MMOs who have you have 40-50 skills on the skill bar? I don't find that more fun or engaging at all.
To me, a rotation should be very specific and situational. it shouldn't apply to anything.
People need to remember that everyone is DPS in GW2. The whole point of removing the trinity (which they've gone a bit back on now) was to reduce the amount of drama with how to heal or how to tank. The idea was that people can support and sustain and cleanse in various way, and offensive group compositions should be able to achieve victory.
It didn't help that that first dungeon was *fucking awful*. One of the worst designed dungeons in any mmo. God knows what they were thinking making that your first experience of group content.
The thing is that wasn't actually the initial intent. They talked about replacing 'tank' with 'control' and 'heal' with support. We heard about Mesmer controlling bosses with clones, earth elementalists tanking them, engineers supporting etc. The point wasn't to get rid of those roles, it was to give every class the option of doing each role.
None of that panned out, but that was actually the original thing they wanted. They didn't aim to turn everyone into a dps class, they just didn't figure out the solution and found a playerbase that liked the mindlessness of it all.
I barely remember the old version, but I think it eventually it got some nice improvements and more mechanics. I think the second dungeon is worse tbh, but then became mostly uphill from that.
Coriolanus
Banned
Tbf it was goddamn stupid how the dodges didn't have some way to take connection latency into account. End result was that even though i goddamn knew quite well the tell for when a specific boss attack was coming, sometimes i couldn't dodge on time because my real window was just too small.Thankfully, not all boss attacks were designed the same.
Design oversight, really.
Dandy Lyin
Member
This is the sad truth of GW2. I remember being excited for their version of the trinity, but it never existed in the game.
Yep looks like Im 100% wrong it is 30. I thought you got the Ascalon Catacombs at level 20.
I agree completely with this, I don't remember much about WoW, last xpac I played was Wrath so maybe a lot has changed. But in FFXIV the rotation is strict as fuck, there's zero point in doing something different because even the skills are designed to be rotated in a specific way. Every single Warrior in FFXIV is the same, there are no builds no way to customize your chara, the game feels very onrails because of this.
I don't understand how people see Skill A--->Skill B--->Skill C--->Pop whatever CD rinse/repeat is fun, but to each his own. I prefer less skills and less strict rotation but more variables during combat so I adjust accordingly and not just blindly follow an optimal rotation of skills.
So two points. Firstly, GW2 has rotations. They are very basic, and thanks to the dreadful UI it's hard to tell the difference, but there will always be an optimal way of pressing your buttons.
GW 2 tried to shake it up by making you react to the bosses. Usually that means either dodging out of an AE, or using a defensive ability if necessary. That's about it PvE wise. It's not complex at all. It might be very different for PvP, but I don't see what Gw2 has that other Mmos don't have when it comes to complexity and reactivity in PvE stuff.
Wow relies on random procs as well as movement from bosses. Skills can trigger things that force you to make a decision and disrupt the rotation (press A unless B has process in which case press C).
GW 2 tried to shake it up by making you react to the bosses. Usually that means either dodging out of an AE, or using a defensive ability if necessary. That's about it PvE wise. It's not complex at all. It might be very different for PvP, but I don't see what Gw2 has that other Mmos don't have when it comes to complexity and reactivity in PvE stuff.
Wow relies on random procs as well as movement from bosses. Skills can trigger things that force you to make a decision and disrupt the rotation (press A unless B has process in which case press C).
My favourite was Christmas jumping puzzle / race thing. I loved that *so* much, and did it so many times for absolutely no purpose.
But you can have both. GW2 is kind of the worst of both worlds, it's still a reasonable amount of buttons, with a lot of 'choices' but there's still an optimal way to do shit. but there's nothing dynamic for most classes.
Compared to like wow where they've pruned down buttons for most classes to where rotationally you're using like 5-10 buttons, but the rotations are dynamic. I don't think having lots of buttons is bad as long as you're not actually pressing most of them that often, like, Track Beasts or something is totally fine to me, it adds flavor. Or Death Gate on my Death Knight, I don't press it in a fight so who cares, I just put it off to the side.
The real issue is that GW2 has no meaningful resource system for most classes, and even the ones that do have them (thieves, revenants) have EXTREMELY basic ones. This leads to mostly 'hit it on cooldown' being correct.
DiscoJer
Member
I personally didn't like it much because it largely lacked quests. Other than the ones based on your level (and I had to quit that because I couldn't do the jumping puzzle required for one), you basically just wander around and kill stuff until you fill up that area's bar, then move to the next place and repeat.
Area quests like that are fun enough, but I don't think they should replace traditional quests.
Beyond that, I found the inventory management to be tiresome. Games should not be using a bag system
Area quests like that are fun enough, but I don't think they should replace traditional quests.
Beyond that, I found the inventory management to be tiresome. Games should not be using a bag system
What. Downed is a mechanic I wish more MMOs would implement.