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Winter Anime 2015 |OT| ZA WARUDO is not square!

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Your Lie in April 13

That was really powerful. Had to hold in my manly tears but couldnt when Kousei started to break down.

Death flags everywhere.

Dog Days - 11-13 [Season 1 END]



You know, I enjoyed this show more than I thought I would. The male lead was both competent and capable at handling whatever was thrown his way, which is rare in harems. I was bummed to see this end but then quickly remembered that I have another season to marathon as well as getting caught up on the third that just started! Yesssssss!

OTPs at the end of the first season:

Leonmichelli x Millhiore

Cinque x Éclair

Leo sama <3 The best.

Well, Yukikaze is. But its almost a tie.

Yeah this show surprised me. Its quite an enjoyable harem and theres fan service galore. Halfway through the 2nd season, I'm enjoying it more than the first. Fun stuff.

Dog Days' - 03

Alright I admit
I did not expect Rebecca to be a top tier hero, and I certainly didn't expect her to beat both Cinque and Nanami. Wow!

She can't beat my Leon though. :3

That transformation scene tho
 

sonicmj1

Member
I suppose if you enjoy Shirobako, then you would probably like Bakuman. lol

An easy litmus test would be to try to get someone who doesn't care about anime to watch the show though. I have no idea when this is on, but I assume it airs at 26:40 when the only people who would watch at are the very people who would post on 2ch. Must like that otaku husband short anime from last season.

The first airing of Shirobako is at 11:30 PM. There are super-late-night reairings, but there's also one that happens at 11:30 AM, and one at 5:30 PM. Late, but not absurd.

That's because I assume working at a municipal office in Japan is one of the most boring jobs in the world.

It's not about the most boring job ever since it's print journalism, but it seems like someone's gotta watch Hataraki Man!
 

Enron

Banned
I agree with firehawk.

I watched an ep or 2 and then noped it on out. I found the show to be uninteresting and kind of trying to pass itself off as "See here its a depiction of the industry you anime snobs that love all the technical shit will love this!" but really it's just trying to sell me waifus.
 

fertygo

Member
Give me an example.

Well at least this last conservation remind when me and im arguing about Sport show, he created equivalent of "You can just watch this, this, this, its the same!" in discussion which very different than just saying "I think this bad"

Like this time he comparing Shirobako to Bakuman, he seem not consider the possibility maybe people liking Shirobako more because its directed by better director or other technical aspect that resulted as better product despite similar premise about inside look of industry.

Same when he mentioning Knight of Area when he told his dislike to Haikyuu. Which pretty bizzare to me at time, but that just how the guy roll.
 

TUSR

Banned
I agree with firehawk.

I watched an ep or 2 and then noped it on out. I found the show to be uninteresting and kind of trying to pass itself off as "See here its a depiction of the industry you anime snobs that love all the technical shit will love this!" but really it's just trying to sell me waifus.

Goth loli-sama
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
but really it's just trying to sell me waifus.

Um... really, no it isn't. I have to jump in here, because it really isn't. As someone who heavily dislikes that kind of pandering, who immediately dislikes shows that feature it, and who was hesitant to start watching Shirobako because of its cover, I really do not understand how you can say this. Does a show mainly featuring female characters equate to "selling waifus"?
 

Veitsev

Member
I agree with firehawk.

I watched an ep or 2 and then noped it on out. I found the show to be uninteresting and kind of trying to pass itself off as "See here its a depiction of the industry you anime snobs that love all the technical shit will love this!" but really it's just trying to sell me waifus.

LOL this couldn't be more wrong.
 
I agree with firehawk.

I watched an ep or 2 and then noped it on out. I found the show to be uninteresting and kind of trying to pass itself off as "See here its a depiction of the industry you anime snobs that love all the technical shit will love this!" but really it's just trying to sell me waifus.

I don't understand why you would think that? Just because the main cast has a lot of females in it, coupled with the artstyle?
 

Narag

Member
What a shock. Gaf OT full of negativity. Its the reason I stay here in terms of gaf anime discussion too.

Individual show OTs have always struck me as more positive about the shows given it's more fans watching it and not people watching just to watch if that makes any sense.
 

Geneijin

Member
Well at least this last conservation remind when me and im arguing about Sport show, he created equivalent of "You can just watch this, this, this, its the same!" in discussion which very different than just saying "I think this bad"

Like this time he comparing Shirobako to Bakuman, he seem not consider the possibility maybe people liking Shirobako more because its directed by better director or other technical aspect that resulted as better product despite similar premise about inside look of industry.

Same when he mentioning Knight of Area when he told his dislike to Haikyuu. Which pretty bizzare to me at time, but that just how the guy roll.
Show me the post and quote please. Second-hand accounts aren't that helpful.
 

Enron

Banned
Look, I'm not trying to insult anyone's taste or anything. If you like waifus, it's ok to admit that! That's just what I got from it. That's not even my problem with the show. My problem with it is its boring presentation of a very niche subject.
 

Narag

Member

One really shouldn't have to venture deep into a series to get to the "good stuff" as it were. I fully empathize with both Firehawk and Enron because those early episodes really didn't feel all that representative as to what the series would become. Characters early on were little more than their job titles and Tarou was maddening. Who really wants to be reminded of workplace ineptitude?

It didn't really grab me until 5 & 6 and that was mostly due to Endou's pride being bruised and how his relationship with the CG director was mended. Around then the characters started to become people rather than their jobs.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Look, I'm not trying to insult anyone's taste or anything. If you like waifus, it's ok to admit that! That's just what I got from it.

I'm still fixated on this "waifu" thing, because it's making zero sense in the context of Shirobako. Is the only example you have really the goth girl, whose scenes have only lent to depict her as an eccentric, but professionally oriented artist? I don't get what would be "selling waifus" to you other than "this show has a lot of female main characters with different personalities and looks."
 

LegatoB

Member
I agree with firehawk.

I watched an ep or 2 and then noped it on out. I found the show to be uninteresting and kind of trying to pass itself off as "See here its a depiction of the industry you anime snobs that love all the technical shit will love this!" but really it's just trying to sell me waifus.
It's like you watched the show I cynically thought this would be before it came out, and not the show that actually exists in reality. That's kinda weird! Be bored by it, sure, but I'm not sure how you could get the "waifu" angle out of watching those episodes.

e: I mean, let's be real. If it's a waifu show, it's pretty bad at it. The five girls from the high-school club have a really bad case of Sameface. Hard to pitch the waifu angle when you have to look at the hairstyles to tell them apart~
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Well, I think Shirobako has now reached Hyouka status in terms of how much conflict it incites.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Well, this is a false equivalency for a few reasons.

For one, there is a large amount of shows depicting what it's like to work in a hospital. It's probably one of the most common settings for dramas. So saying 'would people like this show with a comparatively unique setup if it had the most common story setup ever instead?' doesn't really mean much.
Most non-documentary shows about working in a hospital tend to focus on human drama than procedures. At best, a show like House introduced the concept of "differentials" to me, and there were doctors who blogged about the factual accuracy of the medical practices on the show, but the average viewer watched because they wanted to see the relationship between Sherlock and Watson House and Wilson. That was the point I was making.

More importantly, unless the show was being written entirely by Japanese doctors, it wouldn't carry the same level of realness that is one of Shirobako's hallmarks. Part of the reason why the show has the sense of reality which it has, is because it's a show about the anime production process being made by veterans of the anime industry. It's a work being put together by experts in the field, essentially.
I'm sure people have problems with FTP servers or debate the use of CG or fall behind in production schedules. But there was also a moment where the staff gathers around in order to be inspired by moe, which is presented in a moment of fantasy. Then again, maybe animators in Japan spend all their time thinking about moe.

So rather than saying that people only like it because it's about anime, I think it would be more true to say that it can only exist because it's about anime. This isn't just a show about exploring the realities of a field, but about allowing the staff to all bring their own expertise into the work. Shirobako wouldn't be Shirobako on any level without that.

I would also say that claiming that people are just inclined to like it because it's about the medium they're a fan of is a pretty flawed premise. There are tons of otaku navel gazing shows every year that this thread ignores or mocks. Shirobako, plainly, isn't one of those. It's celebrated because in a sea of such shows, it's trying to give an honest look at what it's like to work in the industry, one which combines the stress and pitfalls of the production process with the hopes and aspirations of the people working on the show, and tries to show how people could even get into working in such a stressful field. The show gives a pretty good demonstration of what the production process is like, which appeals to a lot of people because that sort of behind the scenes stuff is interesting. No, it's not going to be the same as an in depth documentary on the subject, but that's because it isn't trying to be that. It's aiming to be an entertaining drama which also happens to be informative about how anime is made, and to craft a story around the production process.
I suppose this is where subjectivity comes into the discussion, because I don't find anything entertaining about the dramatic arcs that have happened in the six episodes I have seen. The character that has an arc, the voice actress, is on screen for fleeting moments while the rest of the narrative has been focused on, well, what I would call naval gazing topics like the role of CG in animation.
The "secret" to why people like Shirobako doesn't have anything to do with some tinfoil hat conspiracy, or because people are just looking for validation or whatever. It comes down to the fact that it's a well written, well produced show with a lot of energy, a lot of passion, and a clear purpose. The show is extremely well directed, with a lot of great scene transitions, excellent pacing, a very strong sense of energy (which both the direction and music work towards). This is how the show is able to turn the scrambling of the first episode for the key animation into an extremely dramatic moment, or how the second episode functions with all of the stress, panicking, and finally everyone coming together. In a lesser show (or really, most shows (and yes this goes for all of those American network dramas, too)), these scenes wouldn't carry the same weight, because there wouldn't be such a focus on making sure the energy was felt. Where Shirobako really shines is in the show's 100% commitment to making sure that the viewer gets wrapped up in the story and the process of making anime; it makes sure that we feel Aoi's stress as things fall apart around her, and understand why the production is facing such troubles. The show manages to make the comparatively mundane process of creating anime feel far more stressful and meaningful than the life or death struggles that many other shows feature. This is all down to how well the production team is working on the show. The writing is snappy and conveys the import of each scene, and the direction works hard to make sure we really feel how hectic it is. Honestly, leaving aside medium or country of origin, the only shows I can think of over the last couple of years or so that have done as good or better at getting me invested and nervous about the events transpiring are Flowers of Evil and Hannibal.
I have no problems with the aesthetic qualities of the show, and god knows I've probably watched more PA Works shows than anyone here. I even sat through Red Data Girl. But my question would be why I should care if these characters fail?

We're told that there was this previous project that fell apart and tarnished certain careers, to the point where the name of the failed show became a meme, but so what? Are these guys behind on their mortgages? Are their kids going to expensive private schools? Beyond the fact that they would be considered laughing stocks, what are their motives for wanting to succeed? Even the framing device of the five girls who just want to be in the industry doesn't have anything deeper to that other than the fact that it apparently allows the show to consider five distinct aspects of anime production.

If you find it uninteresting, that's your prerogative. But the reasons why other people are enjoying it are down to a lot more than the subject matter. In fact, I would say it's because the show is able to take a subject that a lot of people wouldn't feel makes an interesting show and twist it into something really compelling. And wrapped up around that is the story of a bunch of interesting characters in their own right.

If you didn't like the first two episodes, you probably wouldn't like the rest of the show. Not because that's the 'good part' (all of the show is good), but because the show puts a strong put forward and puts its hooks in the viewer right away. For someone who doesn't get nervous about the staff completing an episode on time, or legitimately excited and pumped up when Kinoshita and Yamada start bonding on how the characters should be and the whole staff comes together, the show is simply never going to appeal to them. And that's fine, but it makes me feel sad. Not because they aren't entitled to their opinion, but because Shirobako makes me feel such joy with every episode, and I wish that everyone could feel that same sense of joy and wonder each week.
I don't want to take away any enjoyment you find when watching the show, and I'm not trying to change your mind. Certainly, people are free to feel that Gravity is an overrated piece of shit that uses computer animation to hide the flaws of an overindulgent director. But consider that in the same way that you are explaining your enthusiasm, I am trying to explain my own lack of enthusiasm - especially since various people, whose opinions I trust, have asked me to watch this show.

I could say I don't like the show and leave it at that. But why wouldn't I just stick to IRC/twitter at that point?

The first airing of Shirobako is at 11:30 PM. There are super-late-night reairings, but there's also one that happens at 11:30 AM, and one at 5:30 PM. Late, but not absurd.

It's not about the most boring job ever since it's print journalism, but it seems like someone's gotta watch Hataraki Man!
Well, at least that show is about being a woman in the workforce. lol

e: I mean, let's be real. If it's a waifu show, it's pretty bad at it. The five girls from the high-school club have a really bad case of Sameface. Hard to pitch the waifu angle when you have to look at the hairstyles to tell them apart~
Welcome to PA Works. :p
 
Dog Days S2 Ep. 7

Awesome.
The cast turning into kids was adorable. Sink and Gaul turning into adult HERO MEN was great too. LOL @ "Feels sort of illegal..."

A hilarious and super fun episode.

It's like you watched the show I cynically thought this would be before it came out, and not the show that actually exists in reality. That's kinda weird! Be bored by it, sure, but I'm not sure how you could get the "waifu" angle out of watching those episodes.

e: I mean, let's be real. If it's a waifu show, it's pretty bad at it. The five girls from the high-school club have a really bad case of Sameface. Hard to pitch the waifu angle when you have to look at the hairstyles to tell them apart~

Thats just PA Works' style. All their girls have that awkward 3/4 angle mouth.
 

fertygo

Member
Show me the post and quote please. Second-hand accounts aren't that helpful.
I'm not that willing to reading those post again for searching it, you can thinking I'm just twisting story if you want.

One really shouldn't have to venture deep into a series to get to the "good stuff" as it were. I fully empathize with both Firehawk and Enron because those early episodes really didn't feel all that representative as to what the series would become. Characters early on were little more than their job titles and Tarou was maddening. Who really wants to be reminded of workplace ineptitude?

It didn't really grab me until 5 & 6 and that was mostly due to Endou's pride being bruised and how his relationship with the CG director was mended. Around then the characters started to become people rather than their jobs.

Yeah, if you don't miss the whole "people like this (instead that) because waifu" part.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
I'm not that willing to reading those post again for searching it, you can thinking I'm just twisting story if you want.
The thing is, I've seen enough sports anime to see that all as interchangeable. Unless the show features a female protagonist, the motivations for the characters are exactly the same, as are the depiction of the actual events.

It doesn't matter if it's soccer, baseball, volleyball, tennis, curling, ice skating, horseshoes or whatever, there is a template that these writers use to fit whatever sport they are writing about into in order to produce Shounen Sports Show #415.

Of recent memory, Free! and Ping Pong are the only shows that even attempted to deviate from that formula, but if you want to suggest to me that Haikyuu or Baby Steps become like Ping Pong after episode 12 (which is when I stopped watching both), then I'm happy to entertain that discussion.
 

SDBurton

World's #1 Cosmonaut Enthusiast
Leo sama <3 The best.

Well, Yukikaze is. But its almost a tie.

Yeah this show surprised me. Its quite an enjoyable harem and theres fan service galore. Halfway through the 2nd season, I'm enjoying it more than the first. Fun stuff.

Oh man Yukikaze is definitely up there too. She's my #2 behind Leo.

That transformation scene tho

I KNOW!

===============================

Dog Days' - 04

HlLqaYz.png
OFMvkYp.png

This show knows its OTPs.

Dat Yukikaze bikini. :O
 

Shard

XBLAnnoyance
What a shock. Gaf OT full of negativity. Its the reason I stay here in terms of gaf anime discussion too.

They are having a discussion, is that not one of the reasons we come here? Anyway, as far as Shriobako goes, I do think it is one of the more brilliant programs of the past year, not just because of the stated reasons but what really sold me on this show was it is adult people dealing with adult situations in a (mostly) adult manner and that is rarer in anime then it should be.
 
I agree with firehawk.

I watched an ep or 2 and then noped it on out. I found the show to be uninteresting and kind of trying to pass itself off as "See here its a depiction of the industry you anime snobs that love all the technical shit will love this!" but really it's just trying to sell me waifus.

'waitfus' in Shirobako? Really?

I'm sure people have problems with FTP servers or debate the use of CG or fall behind in production schedules. But there was also a moment where the staff gathers around in order to be inspired by moe, which is presented in a moment of fantasy. Then again, maybe animators in Japan spend all their time thinking about moe.

The scene wasn't about characters gathering to be inspired by moe. It's a group conversation/debate where the staff all got together and tried to discuss the problems with the show and wound up coming up with a solution that made the show better. There was a fantastic element to the direction of the scene, but it was meant more to be inspiring than to be about the 'power of moe' or anything like that. It's a writers room, essentially.

I suppose this is where subjectivity comes into the discussion, because I don't find anything entertaining about the dramatic arcs that have happened in the six episodes I have seen. The character that has an arc, the voice actress, is on screen for fleeting moments while the rest of the narrative has been focused on, well, what I would call naval gazing topics like the role of CG in animation.

The role of CG is actually something important, and it's pretty clearly focused on the characters as much as the topic. After all, a lot of the stuff related to CG comes from the personalities of Endou and Shimoyanagi, and it explores why each of them got into animation. And the episodes also present the struggle not just in terms of whether or not CG is good, but in terms of the traditional animators being worried for their livelihoods if they're replaced by CG (seeing Endou's home and wife also further cement this notion).

I also think Aoi pretty clearly has an arc. She's a novice member of a production team who is working hard, but she doesn't have a clear idea of where her life is going or what she ultimately wants to do. This is a pretty realistic view of how a person around 20 who is fresh out of college might feel, and its contrasted compared to her other friends who might be further away from their goals (or even not working in the industry at all yet), but have a clearer idea of where they want to be. The fourth episode in particular really builds this idea up. The fifth and sixth episodes are mostly focused on the production process, but they also explore Endou's feelings quite a bit, I feel.

For that matter, episodes 7 and 8 are pretty much all character development.

I have no problems with the aesthetic qualities of the show, and god knows I've probably watched more PA Works shows than anyone here. I even sat through Red Data Girl. But my question would be why I should care if these characters fail?

We're told that there was this previous project that fell apart and tarnished certain careers, to the point where the name of the failed show became a meme, but so what? Are these guys behind on their mortgages? Are their kids going to expensive private schools? Beyond the fact that they would be considered laughing stocks, what are their motives for wanting to succeed? Even the framing device of the five girls who just want to be in the industry doesn't have anything deeper to that other than the fact that it apparently allows the show to consider five distinct aspects of anime production.

Well, you should want characters you're following to succeed, yes. But beyond that, anime production is a pretty low paying job, so I assume a lot of the characters would be in trouble if things got worse. They'd all need to look for new work or possibly face eviction. I don't think you need a ton of scenes with characters all talking about how they'd be in serious trouble if they lost their jobs to understand that they'd be in serious trouble if they lost their jobs.

I don't want to take away any enjoyment you find when watching the show, and I'm not trying to change your mind. Certainly, people are free to feel that Gravity is an overrated piece of shit that uses computer animation to hide the flaws of an overindulgent director. But consider that in the same way that you are explaining your enthusiasm, I am trying to explain my own lack of enthusiasm - especially since various people, whose opinions I trust, have asked me to watch this show.

I could say I don't like the show and leave it at that. But why wouldn't I just stick to IRC/twitter at that point?

Absolutely. I'm not trying to take away from your opinion, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain how you feel on the show. I disagree with you on just about every aspect of it, but it's certainly an informed opinion, and I always appreciate reading other people's perspectives on something, even if they disagree with me.

I just wanted to convey to anyone reading that I really think the show is a damn good one, and I think it deserves acclaim for what it does.
 
the word waifu really has no meaning if it's being applied to Shirobako of all shows

It lost meaning when Gaming Side discovered what existed for decades. Same with the word pedophile on gaming side.

Seems like a joke that people all of the sudden started taking seriously. In fact I know it was a joke then it started spreading.

And creepy is the term I see used the most for pretty much any anime art style game with fanservice in it.
 

Envelope

sealed with a kiss
The thing is, I've seen enough sports anime to see that all as interchangeable. Unless the show features a female protagonist, the motivations for the characters are exactly the same, as are the depiction of the actual events.

It doesn't matter if it's soccer, baseball, volleyball, tennis, curling, ice skating, horseshoes or whatever, there is a template that these writers use to fit whatever sport they are writing about into in order to produce Shounen Sports Show #415.

Of recent memory, Free! and Ping Pong are the only shows that even attempted to deviate from that formula, but if you want to suggest to me that Haikyuu or Baby Steps become like Ping Pong after episode 12 (which is when I stopped watching both), then I'm happy to entertain that discussion.

Free isn't even trying to be a sports show though!
 

Veitsev

Member
What is the appeal of Dog Days exactly? I am six episodes in and wondering if I should continue or not. It seems like a worse version of Zero no Tsukaima and the main character is a real Gary Stu and is painfully nice. Does it get dramatically better at some point? I don't hate it and its kind of cute I guess but it seems painfully average.
 
Free isn't even trying to be a sports show though!

Neither is Ping Pong really. The sport is secondary to the characters.
I feel like last year was a particularly good year for sports series and I missed the boat on pretty much all of them. Which sucks because I've never really gotten into a long running sports series and I kinda want to.
 

Envelope

sealed with a kiss
What is the appeal of Dog Days exactly? I am six episodes in and wondering if I should continue or not. It seems like a worse version of Zero no Tsukaima and the main character is a real Gary Stu and is painfully nice. Does it get dramatically better at some point? I don't hate it and tis kind of cute I guess but it seems painfully average.

if you don't like what you've seen so far, nothing is going to change.
 

Taruranto

Member
I only watched the first episode of Shirobako, but I remember zoning out when 20 characters were introduced at the same time and they expected me to follow the process of creating an anime without establishing the basis. (who is this person? What's his/her role about?)

Just to throw my 2 cents, keep on.
 

Shard

XBLAnnoyance
I only watched the first episode of Shirobako, but I remember zoning out when 20 characters were introduced at the same time and they expected me to follow the process of creating an anime without establishing the basis. (who is this person? What's his/her role about?)

Just to throw my 2 cents, keep on.

That is why they have the labels under the name.
 
I only watched the first episode of Shirobako, but I remember zoning out when 20 characters were introduced at the same time and they expected me to follow the process of creating an anime without establishing the basis. (who is this person? What's his/her role about?)

Just to throw my 2 cents, keep on.

I don't know if there was a good way around it, when dealing with the subject material the cast will be huge. But I don't blame anyone for not being able to keep track since I'm pretty bad at that. They do show the name of the character whenever they appear for the first few episodes.
It did make good on it, I like most of the characters now that they've had time to settle. Although like with most series I just come up with nicknames for the characters based on what they are wearing or their hair since remembering all the names is too much work for me!
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
I only watched the first episode of Shirobako, but I remember zoning out when 20 characters were introduced at the same time and they expected me to follow the process of creating an anime without establishing the basis. (who is this person? What's his/her role about?)

I don't think episode 1 expects one to keep track of all of that. I was also overwhelemed by the number of characters and the environment I wasn't familiar with, but then the rest of the series is about taking a closer look at each different facet of anime production, and I started getting a better feel for how it all operated and functioned together. That's a big reason why I enjoy the show.
 
Bahamut genesis - 03
Predictable episode ( the state of the town was obvious ) with an ending that was alright ... hey it seems the story is moving .
Actually the story does moves a lot .. some back story on 2 main characters + decent animation . I like

Bahamut genesis - 04
Necromancer girl survived , that's good. Man she's OP as fuck.

"don't you need your book ? "
"i have other tools"
"ok "
Shingeki%20no%20Bahamut%20-%20Genesis%20-%2004.jpg

Wait does that collar-like object means that he did try to behead her but it was no use ?
The reveal that favaro is not really responsible for the thief is not a surprise either, since we do need to a legitimate reason to explain his action in the last 3 eps. Our little girl did toople a giant crabe and did MASSIVE DAMAGE !! Too bad it's not a faithfull recréation of feudal japan :p

It's not Tasty ? Oh well ...

Ps: Favaro suck at drawing ...
 
I only watched the first episode of Shirobako, but I remember zoning out when 20 characters were introduced at the same time and they expected me to follow the process of creating an anime without establishing the basis. (who is this person? What's his/her role about?)

Just to throw my 2 cents, keep on.

They keep up putting a character's name and job on the screen during their first appearance in an episode until at least around episode 8 or so, I think. They don't expect you to follow who everyone is at first.

The first episode is meant to be hectic and disorienting. Much of the episode consists of everyone scrambling around with their heads cut off trying desperately to get something done in time. The show recreates that feeling for the viewer by putting them in a situation where they don't really know the characters that well, introduces everyone really quickly, and then goes straight into a pretty hectic storyline. The disorienting is intentional as a way of setting the mood. It gets better as things calm down some at the studio and you get a chance to know everyone. By episode 14, pretty much all of those characters have been fleshed out pretty well and been given a decent amount of focus.
 

Vylash

Member
What is the appeal of Dog Days exactly? I am six episodes in and wondering if I should continue or not. It seems like a worse version of Zero no Tsukaima and the main character is a real Gary Stu and is painfully nice. Does it get dramatically better at some point? I don't hate it and its kind of cute I guess but it seems painfully average.

it's Fun: The Animation, the appeal is fun characters in a fun fantasy world, if you don't find it fun at this point you're better off dropping it
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I don't think you need a ton of scenes with characters all talking about how they'd be in serious trouble if they lost their jobs to understand that they'd be in serious trouble if they lost their jobs.

Ah, I'll chime in on this, because I very much disagree. It's true that losing your job in this economy, in the natural course of events, will cause trouble for you. But this is not nearly enough to get me to care about a character. Otherwise, i would have to care about every character that has a job that isn't going great.

And this is simply not true, or reasonable.

It's the storyteller's job to give the audience sufficient reason to care about a character. Ema's scene where she reflects on her place in the studio, was a poor attempt at this, because Ema is a paper thin person. It's the writers going "yeah she won't be able to pay the bills if she loses her job, that's all", and this is just very shallow writing.

Contrast this to Ben-to or Hataraku Maou, both of which are lighthearted comedies about people struggling to survive. The feeling is totally different, because not only do we get to see the main characters of those shows fighting for their right to eat, we get to see them at their low points when they're cutting dietary corners, and their joy when they score a good day's meal. All this is interwoven in other scenes of character development and interaction that endear them to us. Compared to these, Ema's "problems" seem throwaway.

Now, on balance, Shirobako isn't Ben-to or Hataraku Maou. Ema is, despite being one of the first characters we see, and despite how much screen time she gets, a very minor character. It's unfair to demand the same level of character development from her as other character-driven shows because that's not the kind of show Shirobako is, but this is precisely firehawk12's point. Shirobako is very weak in this area because it devotes all its time and energy towards talking and explaining production stuff. It's trading off typical character arcs for more shop-talk.

But if you're not interested in shop-talk, then Shirobako would be a very boring anime for you. This is what he means by "naval gazing", not that Shirobako fans are literally gazing at navals, but that their enjoyment of Shirobako stems from its focus on something they care about, whether it's specifically the production of anime, or production woes in general. If you can't connect on these levels, then Shirobako doesn't have much else to offer. That was the cost of its sacrifice.
Free isn't even trying to be a sports show though!

That's why firehawk likes it, because it's not following the template at all. It's "about swimming" as much as K-ON is "about light music".
 

SDBurton

World's #1 Cosmonaut Enthusiast
What is the appeal of Dog Days exactly? I am six episodes in and wondering if I should continue or not. It seems like a worse version of Zero no Tsukaima and the main character is a real Gary Stu. Does it get dramatically better at some point? I don't hate it and tis kind of cute I guess but it seems painfully average.

I honestly feel like its the male lead that makes the show enjoyable surprisingly. He's a well balanced character in both competency and ability. He's doesn't have the intelligence of a gnat like Ichika from IS, nor does he have that disgustingly obnoxious persona that he's the best thing since sliced bread like Kirito from SAO. Cinque is just there to do his hero thing and have fun, that's it. While other male leads are written to be depicted as the 'straight and narrow' gentleman, they tend to fall apart the moment they see boobs and in typical fashion their deviant side pops up for laughs. Cinque has yet to fall for that setup, instead taking the high road and not acting on what the viewers would expect any other MC would do.

His backstory
placing second in that Ninja Warrior tournament after busting his ass off training for it
gave him the humbleness that so many male MCs in his genre desperately need.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
The scene wasn't about characters gathering to be inspired by moe. It's a group conversation/debate where the staff all got together and tried to discuss the problems with the show and wound up coming up with a solution that made the show better. There was a fantastic element to the direction of the scene, but it was meant more to be inspiring than to be about the 'power of moe' or anything like that. It's a writers room, essentially.

It's been a few weeks, but IIRC the conflict came out of the director's apprehension over the girl's "moe face" during a moment of anguish, which then became a conversation about the various types of moe that the staff saw in each of the girl - which Miyamori was able to evoke though her speech. It became a discussion about the type of moe that they wanted to produce and it didn't really seem deeper than that to me.

But of course, as an outsider, I would ask why 20-somethings are being depicted as moe lolis in the first place. However, Exodus as a show probably isn't something I'd watch anyway I suppose.

The role of CG is actually something important, and it's pretty clearly focused on the characters as much as the topic. After all, a lot of the stuff related to CG comes from the personalities of Endou and Shimoyanagi, and it explores why each of them got into animation. And the episodes also present the struggle not just in terms of whether or not CG is good, but in terms of the traditional animators being worried for their livelihoods if they're replaced by CG (seeing Endou's home and wife also further cement this notion).
If you trawl through the threads, you'll find that duckroll got me and a some other people to watch a documentary about the making of Black Rock Shooter, where they explained how they used CG animation as part of their process. It's a discussion that fans have had for years, and I'm sure that people in the industry have had as well. I'm not saying that discussion isn't of interest, but that for me, Shirobako's depiction of that conflict was not as interesting as watching that short piece on how BRS was made.

I also think Aoi pretty clearly has an arc. She's a novice member of a production team who is working hard, but she doesn't have a clear idea of where her life is going or what she ultimately wants to do. This is a pretty realistic view of how a person around 20 who is fresh out of college might feel, and its contrasted compared to her other friends who might be further away from their goals (or even not working in the industry at all yet), but have a clearer idea of where they want to be. The fourth episode in particular really builds this idea up. The fifth and sixth episodes are mostly focused on the production process, but they also explore Endou's feelings quite a bit, I feel.
Their motivations are linked strictly to their jobs though. I mean, even when the five girls meet to drink beer, they're talking about their anime related careers.

Well, you should want characters you're following to succeed, yes. But beyond that, anime production is a pretty low paying job, so I assume a lot of the characters would be in trouble if things got worse. They'd all need to look for new work or possibly face eviction. I don't think you need a ton of scenes with characters all talking about how they'd be in serious trouble if they lost their jobs to understand that they'd be in serious trouble if they lost their jobs.
Of course I would want the hero to succeed in their quest. But when there are literally millions of heroes and millions of quests, you should give me a reason why I want to see this particular hero complete this particular quest.

Absolutely. I'm not trying to take away from your opinion, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain how you feel on the show. I disagree with you on just about every aspect of it, but it's certainly an informed opinion, and I always appreciate reading other people's perspectives on something, even if they disagree with me.
Sure, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain why you like the show.
 
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