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[Battlezone]

From PWinsider

Ah, the infamous "Reports backstage". Almost as reliable as "sources indicate" and "rumblings in the locker room". I hate PWI's smarky smark "reporting". That PWI report sounds like tremendous damage control, because after all, Paul Heyman can do no wrong and all the shitty stuff was Vince/Steph/Creative/Sci-Fi's fault anyway.

Scherer's report sounds a lot more reliable, although it doesn't say what elements of the show Vince and Dunn were fighting with Heyman over. We're just supposed to assume that Vince wanted all the shitty stuff, and Heyman was just fighting the good fight.

Man, I hate Internet wrestling "reporting" sometimes.

 

[3kuSaS]

Uh, Dave Scherer is from PWinsider. The two reports don't contradict each other, basically what happened is Heyman originally wrote the script, but then Kevin Dunn and Vince McMahon used thier authority and changed the show to thier liking. But who expected any differently?

 

[Battlezone]

I meant that quote above yours talking about "Scherer's report" sounding more legit, and not like it was written by someone on a message board. They essentially say the same thing, but your quote reads very much like "Heyman wanted to have a 40 minute Benoit/Angle match, but Vince said "No, we need ZOMBIES!". It's that style of "reporting" that bugs me so much.

My point still stands. For all we know, Vince may have wanted to change the order of the segments of the show, and Heyman disagreed. But it's implied that Vince had his fingerprints all over this, just to protect Internet Darling Paul Heyman.

 

[Bloodwake]

So, anyway.

Thank you Vince McMahon, for ass ****ing every ECW fan that you made excited over the return of ECW with shows like WWE vs. ECW and ONS2.

I just watched ONS2, and everything in terms of "same old shit" they were chanting at Cena was pretty much what we saw on Tuesday. We just saw the same old bullshit they forcefeed us every Monday night on USA, and especially every Friday night on UPN.

Paul Heyman is right. We all WISH TNA was competitive, because even though it is just mostly a rehash of unpushed WWE and old WCW stars, it's still a lot ****ing better than Fridays and definitely this shit we saw tonight.

They have until the July 4th show at ECW Arena... then I might just quit watching ECW. I mean, at least RAW is good sometimes (DX MOTHER ****ERS) and at least Cena doesn't have the WWE title anymore, as well as being kicked out of the title picture at Vengeance.

 

[DarienA]

I love how all the blame for last night's show is going to Vince.... light Heyman hasn't has his share of f'ck up's along the way for people to know that some of the crap we've seen over the years including last night had to have come from him as well...

 

[Darmstadtium]

Seriously, we were joking about an alien running to the ring and someone coming out and beating the hell out of them.

That is exactly what we got.

The Sandman was originally booked to cane an alien last night, but The Sci Fi Network didn't want an alien getting beat up on their network, since, I guess, they thought it would cause an upheaval among their fan base.

:lol

 

[DMczaf]

Dont worry guys, DX will carry the WWE this summer!

 

[Bloodwake]

I love how all the blame for last night's show is going to Vince.... light Heyman hasn't has his share of f'ck up's along the way for people to know that some of the crap we've seen over the years including last night had to have come from him as well...

Well, it really doesn't matter whose fault it is now.

We do know that Heyman is probably the one waking up this morning with a massive hangover after the amount of alcohol he consumed after seeing his dream destroyed on national television.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

I meant that quote above yours talking about "Scherer's report" sounding more legit, and not like it was written by someone on a message board. They essentially say the same thing, but your quote reads very much like "Heyman wanted to have a 40 minute Benoit/Angle match, but Vince said "No, we need ZOMBIES!". It's that style of "reporting" that bugs me so much.

My point still stands. For all we know, Vince may have wanted to change the order of the segments of the show, and Heyman disagreed. But it's implied that Vince had his fingerprints all over this, just to protect Internet Darling Paul Heyman.

Well i doubt heyman would of wanted to feature Edge and Cena so heavily, or the segment where he exclaimed "WE'RE GONNA TAKE THE FIGHT TO RAW!"

 

[Outcast2004]

I love how all the blame for last night's show is going to Vince.... light Heyman hasn't has his share of f'ck up's along the way for people to know that some of the crap we've seen over the years including last night had to have come from him as well...

Well let's see....

A. Vince has final say on everything, so he does get the blame.
B. Vince pays the bills, so he's to blame

That show has every indication of a second rate WWE show. I can't blame Heyman for it, look at what he put together Sunday? You're trying to tell me it all turned to shit within 48 hours? I doubt that. Paulie had his legs swept out from under him.

 

[DMczaf]

Im guessing this is how ECW will go

If something goes right: HEYMAN IS A GENIUS!

If something goes wrong: VINCE IS AN ASSHOLE!

 

[DarienA]

Well let's see....

A. Vince has final say on everything, so he does get the blame.
B. Vince pays the bills, so he's to blame

That show has every indication of a second rate WWE show. I can't blame Heyman for it, look at what he put together Sunday? You're trying to tell me it all turned to shit within 48 hours? I doubt that. Paulie had his legs swept out from under him.

...and you really think Heyman put together the Sunday show by himself with no hands on at all from Vince and co? Yeah right. Blinders be you!

Im guessing this is how ECW will go

If something goes right: HEYMAN IS A GENIUS!

If something goes wrong: VINCE IS AN ASSHOLE!

Exactly.

 

[Outcast2004]

...and you really think Heyman put together the Sunday show by himself with no hands on at all from Vince and co? Yeah right. Blinders be you!



Exactly.

I'd say 90% of sunday's show was him. From the way the segments were structured and the way the matches were done is all vintage Paul E.

That shit last night? The romper room writing crew of WWE.

 

[dskillzhtown]

Im guessing this is how ECW will go

If something goes right: HEYMAN IS A GENIUS!

If something goes wrong: VINCE IS AN ASSHOLE!

Pretty much. But Vince had nothing to do with the crap Heyman was doing in OVW.

I am sure there are plenty of fingers to be pointed: Paul, Sci-Fi, Vince. But in the end this is Paul's baby. We will never know exactly how much was Paul, how much was Vince, etc. Everything we hear now will be a spin. All I know is Paul just a few days was talking about how much control he has over everything and what his vision is and now everyone is very willing to give him a pass now that it turned to crap. ONS2 was a Vince/Steph's staff/Paul production as was all the ECW stuff on Raw. It was good stuff. Last night was pure crap and this is after Paul exclaming that ECW would be HIS. You can draw your own conclusions.

 

[Outcast2004]

The feedback is brutal everywhere!

(I thought this one was funny, so I included it)We pay PWInsider.com a lot of money for breaking news and analysis. Frankly, I expect more out of all of you, even McGrath. For weeks, even months, Mike has said, “This is not my ECW, this is not my ECW.” Break the damn story already. Who’s ECW is it? And get me their address, so I can go to their house and bludgeon them to death with a video tape of last night’s abysmal show. I’d say I’d torture them by making them watch it, but unfortunately:

a) They probably loved it.

b) I can’t make myself watch that crap again.

Taping with Smackdown is a disaster. The crowd was dead, but can you blame them? The Zombie, the Vampire—it’s all got that angry Paul/Russo feel with the Network, Standards and Practices, or Creative Control. And those weren’t gems. People compared this project failing with the XFL. News flash—the XFL was entertaining for at least the first showing. Even if you disagree, PART of the first XFL broadcast was better than ALL of this “show.”

Ryan Mulloy

**********

Ok, since I'll probably be one of the last ones to make it in let's make this good.

Last's night show was an atrocity. That's about the tamest I can state things.

As a long time fan of all things wrestling I felt obligated to tune in last night. When I saw the garbage that they tried to pass off as ECW I was ashamed. This wasn't ECW, sure the graphics and set SAID ECW..... but there was nothing that resembles the company that died long ago. Some of the face may have looked the same (for what brief time we SAW some actual ECW talent) but this is ECW in name only.

I really couldn't fathom how in the course of 48 hours they could KILL all the good buzz of a really solid PPV that was meant to kick off the new product, but dammit they figured out a way! From the Zombie, to the Vampire to the squash matches and the awful/DEAD crowd there was NOTHING redeeming about this mess.

If this is what we can expect from this "new vision", then perhaps WWE needs to get their sight checked. Their "vision" is way out of focus.

I am truly stunned.... there are just no words.

A REALLY disgusted fan, Jason Christner Alliance, OH

 

[Coin Return]

This is not ECW. I know there trying to take it "global" but it just doesn't work. Call it something else if this is what it's going to be.

 

[3kuSaS]

If it is revealed that this crap was indeed Heymans fault, then I (and hopefully others) will give him shit for it. But that crapfest I saw last night reeked of Mchmahon-ism. I highly doubt that Heyman would produut on such a shitty show for the return of his pride and joy, ECW.

But Vince had nothing to do with the crap Heyman was doing in OVW.

What crap in OVW? I've only seen a couple of episodes of Heymans OVW, and what I saw was pretty good, especially the Brent Albright/CM Punk fake inury angle. That was probably the best injury swerve angle I've ever seen.

 

[Outcast2004]

If it is revealed that this crap was indeed Heymans fault, then I (and hopefully others) will give him shit for it. But that crapfest I saw last night reeked of Mchmahon-ism. I highly doubt that Heyman would produut on such a shitty show for the return of his pride and joy, ECW.


What crap in OVW? I've only seen a couple of episodes of Heymans OVW, and what I saw was pretty good, especially the Brent Albright/CM Punk fake inury angle. That was probably the best injury swerve angle I've ever seen.

I was going to say the same in regards to OVW. And if you think Vinnie doesn't have anything to do wih OVW, check your head. Spirit Squad and Boogeyman started there...at the WWE front office request. WWE creative has more influence on OVW than youd think.

 

[Nameless]

Source: PWInsider.com


The debut ECW return show was written by Paul Heyman and then put through the WWE creative team who then edited it to how they think it should go. Paul Heyman does not have the entire control of the ECW brand as you saw last night. Vince McMahon wants the product how he sees it. Paul Heyman wrote last night's show in order to meet McMahon's expectations and visions of ECW.

People who saw Paul Heyman backstage at the ECW show said that it was pretty clear that he thought the show was a train wreck. Everyone in the company also felt the same way. Everyone knew that the show wasn't how they wanted it to succeed and failed.

According to sources, Paul Heyman wrote the ECW show last night and then it went to Vince McMahon and Kevin Dunn. There was said to have been a battle over some of the scripting in which McMahon won out in the end because, well, it's his product.

Like was said....Vince's fault. If I were Paul would just quit right now and take CM Punk with me over to TNA.

 

[Brian Fellows]

TNA should have given Punk the 30 minutes he wanted with Joe in the first place. Dumbshits!

 

[Bloodwake]

Like was said....Vince's fault. If I were Paul would just quit right now and take CM Punk with me over to TNA.

That way CM Punk can job to former unpushed WWE wrestlers and old WCW wrestlers.

 

[DarienA]

Like was said....Vince's fault. If I were Paul would just quit right now and take CM Punk with me over to TNA.

So you assume all the changes Vince wanted were the ones that resulted in the bad parts of the show? (pretty much the entire show).

 

[dskillzhtown]

If it is revealed that this crap was indeed Heymans fault, then I (and hopefully others) will give him shit for it. But that crapfest I saw last night reeked of Mchmahon-ism. I highly doubt that Heyman would produut on such a shitty show for the return of his pride and joy, ECW.


What crap in OVW? I've only seen a couple of episodes of Heymans OVW, and what I saw was pretty good, especially the Brent Albright/CM Punk fake inury angle. That was probably the best injury swerve angle I've ever seen.

Not sure, but the last 2 months of Heyman OVW sucked ass. Same matches every week, lapses of logic. Putting people who couldn't work in long matches, etc. The rumor at the time was that Heyman was putting his energies towards convincing Vince to being back ECW. Maybe so, but either way it became crap towards the end of his run there. I thought it was just me being too critical until I started reading reviews and recaps on the net and they noticed there was a distenct drop off in quality about 2-3 months before ECW was announced.

Like I said and others have said, you can't blame Vince for everything, I highly doubt you can blame Paul for all of it. I think there is plenty of blame to go around.

 

[Brian Fellows]

So you assume all the changes Vince wanted were the ones that resulted in the bad parts of the show? (pretty much the entire show).

Why not assume that when everything else Vince touches turns to shit?

 

[Nameless]

So you assume all the changes Vince wanted were the ones that resulted in the bad parts of the show? (pretty much the entire show).

I think I have a pretty good grasp on what Heyman's creative signature is from ECW, Smackdown for a period of time, and most recently OVW--this wasn't it. Heyman's shows are about WRESTLING and there was what, 2minutes of it thanks to Kurt? People hitting each other with cookie sheets is has Vince all over it.

The show was like an hour long advertisement for Vengence rather than a show that established ECW as a seperate entity.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I don't necessarily think the problem lies in the booking. To me, I didn't mind the shit in the first 45 minutes because it was just plain boring. I'm used to that in weekly wrestling. Where the show died was in the battle royal where it looked like every shitty trash WWF 2000 hardcore match I've ever seen rolled up into a nice retrospective. Everything looked lame and it felt lame, and it made the whole show look stupid. If the battle royal had been interesting and intense, it could have saved the whole show.

And we got headbutting Angle, which rules.

I'd say it's pretty fair to blame it all on Vince. I know Heyman has booked quite a bit of shit, but you know when he's involved in it.

 

[shoplifter]

I think I have a pretty good grasp on what Heyman's creative signature is from ECW, Smackdown for a period of time, and most recently OVW--this wasn't it. Heyman's shows are about WRESTLING and there was what, 2minutes of it thanks to Kurt? People hitting each other with cookie sheets is has Vince all over it.

Agreed. I honestly can't believe that Heyman would even think about booking Angle to take out Justin Credible in such a squash. It wasn't believable to anyone who knows anything about ECW. Sure, job him, but christ, a 60s tap out is insane and just makes ECW look terrible when Styles is saying 'JC is a former ECW Champion.' A lot of smarks hate him, but the impression that gives to new viewers is that ECW sucks.

I'd have rather seen a show full of short intros of each wrestler, followed by a jobber match highlighting their individual strengths to put them over.

 

[Battlezone]

Like was said....Vince's fault. If I were Paul would just quit right now and take CM Punk with me over to TNA.

And like I said, you don't know which ideas were Vince's and which were Heyman's. Maybe Vince wanted the Big Show to win the Battle Royal, and Heyman didn't. Maybe Heyman wanted Edge to do the whole respect thing and not spear RVD, and Vince didn't. Maybe Heyman wanted to beat up an alien, and Sci-Fi didn't. Oh wait, I think that one is true.

Heyman's got a great spot, at least in the court of public opinion. He can write whatever he wants and throw it to the wall and see what sticks-if it gets over, he's a creative genius. If it flops, well Vince made him do it anyway.

Watch, if they stick with this Zombie thing, and it gets oddly gets over, people in here will be crowing about Evil Genius Paul Heyman and how he got a throwaway gimmick that was forced upon him over with the crowd.

 

[dskillzhtown]

Why not assume that when everything else Vince touches turns to shit?

Dayum....I guess everyone should start hating DX too.

 

[Nameless]

Exactly. I think Paul's battle royal would have required wrestlers to pin each other for elimination. It DID seem like one of those Hardcore Battle royals the WWF used to run 5 years ago.

 

[Jonnyboy117]

I quit watching wrestling seven or eight years ago, but I happened to see the commercials for ECW yesterday while catching Stargate (the great movie, not the series). I thought "WTF, why is there wrestling on Sci-Fi Channel?" I turned off the TV for a while, but I turned it back on a couple hours later and it was still on that channel, so I ended up catching about five minutes of the ECW show in which the announcer proudly introduced "Kelly" to an indifferent audience. This girl proceeded to walk over to a sidestage and literally go through a stripper routine. It had nothing to do with even wrestling, much less science-fiction, and the poor girl couldn't even unfasten her bra, so she had to lift it up before turning to face the crowd with her hands over her breasts.

I kind of liked the XFL. It had some good ideas that should have been adopted by the NFL, even if the football itself was lackluster.

 

[Brian Fellows]

Dayum....I guess everyone should start hating DX too.

I forgot to put in the last few years. But yeah I'm it wouldnt suprise to see him screw that up too.

 

[Penguin]

I say give ECW a few weeks.

Assume the show will be rather WWE centric until Vengeance for the simple fact WWE backed themselves into a corner by having ONS 2 weeks before their own PPV and then intermangling the brands so that they had to continue the feud in order to have a semi decent PPV.

 

[Nameless]

And like I said, you don't know which ideas were Vince's and which were Heyman's. Maybe Vince wanted the Big Show to win the Battle Royal, and Heyman didn't. Maybe Heyman wanted Edge to do the whole respect thing and not spear RVD, and Vince didn't. Maybe Heyman wanted to beat up an alien, and Sci-Fi didn't. Oh wait, I think that one is true.

Heyman's got a great spot, at least in the court of public opinion. He can write whatever he wants and throw it to the wall and see what sticks-if it gets over, he's a creative genius. If it flops, well Vince made him do it anyway.

Watch, if they stick with this Zombie thing, and it gets oddly gets over, people in here will be crowing about Evil Genius Paul Heyman and how he got a throwaway gimmick that was forced upon him over with the crowd.

If you watched ECW's One hour Debut on TNN and compare it to this it is drastically different. Heyman shoots about the WWE prodcut not containing any wrestling, and he rights the 1st ECW show with pretty much non of it. And I'm sorry, I can't see Heyman saying: "You know, lets get this generic busty blonde that no one knows, have her striptease and then leave for no apparent reason". or " Yeah I know I said that ECW talent never got the respect they deserved, but **** it i'll just let one of the most respected ECW alumnist Justin Credible get squashed by one of the WWE's biggest stars ever in 2 minutes"

"And just to further contradict everything I've said in the past, lets bring back WWF hardcore action in all it's cookie sheet greatness, despite the fact I bashed it to hell for scorching the perception of hardcore that ECW helped build.

Like I said last night, the show was everything that Heyman, Styles, Tazz, and RVD have been shooting on since last year's ONS. I may be naive, but I just don't see Heyman endorsing 95% of what went on last night.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

I quit watching wrestling seven or eight years ago, but I happened to see the commercials for ECW yesterday while catching Stargate (the great movie, not the series). I thought "WTF, why is there wrestling on Sci-Fi Channel?" I turned off the TV for a while, but I turned it back on a couple hours later and it was still on that channel, so I ended up catching about five minutes of the ECW show in which the announcer proudly introduced "Kelly" to an indifferent audience. This girl proceeded to walk over to a sidestage and literally go through a stripper routine. It had nothing to do with even wrestling, much less science-fiction, and the poor girl couldn't even unfasten her bra, so she had to lift it up before turning to face the crowd with her hands over her breasts.

Really? Tell me more of this wrestling you speak of.

No way he screws with DX. Because if he screws with DX...he ****s with the GAF Clique!

If it stops you posting pics of shawn michaels every single reply then im all for it.

 

[DMczaf]

I forgot to put in the last few years. But yeah I'm it wouldnt suprise to see him screw that up too.

No way he screws with DX. Because if he screws with DX...he ****s with the GAF Clique!

 

[Outcast2004]

I forgot to put in the last few years. But yeah I'm it wouldnt suprise to see him screw that up too.

You're trolling!
Anyway... it's amazing what 48 hours can do to an idea and franchise. If something like dthat doesn't start of strong you're pretty well dead in th water. They only have 12 weeks to make an impact (no pun intended) and if they don't you're going to have a few guys back on the unemployment line.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

I miss brian fellows whoring of ROH every chance he gets.

Wheres the passion?!

 

[Brian Fellows]

No way he screws with DX. Because if he screws with DX...he ****s with the GAF Clique!

I hope you are right. This why I started watching the WWE again.


Who know maybe Vince will even improve it by getting rid of that old balding guy on the left and replace him with a future wrestling god like CM Punk.

I miss brian fellows whoring of ROH every chance he gets.

Wheres the passion?!

I quit watching ROH....the new stuff atleast. I was losing interest for a while but getting rid of Low Ki and replacing him with a bunch of CZW trash was what pushed me over the edge. The losses of Punk, Gibson, and Spanky didnt help either.

 

[Eminem]

Well if everyone knows how shitty it was, maybe they'll be forced to make some changes?

Although if it drew ratings, Vince won't give a shit anyway.

Goldust released
June 14, 2006

WWE has come to an agreement on the release of Goldust (Dustin Runnels) as of today, June 14, 2006. WWE wishes Dustin the best in all future endeavors.

source: WWE.com

:lol :lol

 

[Outcast2004]

Well if everyone knows how shitty it was, maybe they'll be forced to make some changes?

Although if it drew ratings, Vince won't give a shit anyway.



:lol :lol

well Goldust being released didn't take long...

 

[Raw64life]

Goldust released
June 14, 2006

WWE has come to an agreement on the release of Goldust (Dustin Runnels) as of today, June 14, 2006. WWE wishes Dustin the best in all future endeavors.

source: WWE.com

This is what, the 4th time Goldust quit/got fired from WWE? He'll come back in a couple years like he always does.

 

[GoutPatrol]

And I really thought they were going placing with SnitskyDust.

 

[Archie]

Early projected ECW rating is out.

http://www.wrestlingobserver.com/wo/news/headlines/default.asp?aID=16565

2.2. This is just a projected number, the actual number will be out later today, but it was well above expectations.

Looks like zombies and vampires might be here to stay. :/

 

[shoplifter]

Looks like zombies and vampires might be here to stay. :/

I think it's safe to say that the rating had nothing to do with content, and everything to do with people tuning in to see what was up.

NEXT week's rating will be the judge of this week's content.

 

[Christopher]

2.2 with all the hype and them pimping out on RAW every three minutes plus with everyone watching their first initial show...doesn't look too hot.

 

[The Frankman]

Early projected ECW rating is out.

http://www.wrestlingobserver.com/wo/news/headlines/default.asp?aID=16565



Looks like zombies and vampires might be here to stay. :/

Bull, that's a "WOW ECW PREMEIRE!" number. I'd be interested in the spilts from 10 to 10:30, 10:30 to 11. If we see SameOldCrap next week I predict a 1.1. I'd gladly watch Cena overcoming odds and DX than what I taped yesterday. If I wanted to see vampires I'd watch cool ones, like The Brood or Buffy, the Vampire Slayer (Gellar is hotter than the ho they brought out). If I wanted zombies I'd play PS2 Resident Evil 4.

Spoiler

Zombie- "RRRRRRoooaaaaaarrrrrrrrrr!"

 

[Nameless]

As reported, Paul Heyman did write the ECW show for last night but it ended up being heavily tweaked by Vince McMahon and Kevin Dunn. Word is that Heyman and McMahon & Dunn had fights about certain things with McMahon & Dunn winning out.

There ya go guys.


and the 2.2 is great, I actually predicted something similar. It will be interesting to see if that holds up. I'm sure us "smarks" will continue to tune in regaurdless in hopes that it will get better. If the show sees a big drop off depends on if the mainstream fans throught it was entertaining.

 

[3kuSaS]

Final ECW Rating is in....

No matter what you thought of ECW on Sci Fi last night, the show was a winner in the ratings, scoring a 2.7 cable rating with a 4 share and 2.357 million households. For a debut on a new, non-wrestling network that is an amazing number for them and a great opening night figure. WWE is very happy with the rating.

Not bad at all!

I think one way WWE can make up for last nights show is to have Angle win a match next week and Justin Credible come out afterwards and beat Angle to a bloody pulp, then say that Kurt defeating him so easily has awakened the real Justin Credible and then start a nice fued between the two. ECW needs use former WWE wrestlers like Angle & Big Show to reestablish the credibility of guys like Credible, Balls & Nunzio.

 

[Guzim]

Isn't that a higher rating than Smackdown?