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[luchadork]

I'm surprised the ratings haven't tanked even lower. Its unwatchable at this point. Only like 1 good match in 3 hours and nothing else of importance happens.

I thought everyone on the internet has been saying Raw has been good since Wrestlemania? Has it been good or bad?

for mine, the past 3 raws have been damn good to watchable. as opposed to rage inducing shit fests of the past 6 months slash years. which makes the ratings even more scary. theyve tried to appeal to everyone. ratings down. theyve tried to appeal to the casuals. ratings down. theyve tried to appeal to the hardcore. ratings down. it'll be interesting to see where things go. the in ring talent is the best its ever been. and theres actually a compelling storyline going into a ppv for the first time in over a year.

but yeh. so much shit needs to change around the format and product. maybe go to 2 hours and stick nxt on the end if you need to have 3 hours. i like the idea of LU style vignettes. the production and writing is fucking terrible. shit. i dunno how you fix any of this meaningfully. the damage might already be done.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

There's so many problems with WWE but I feel like bullet point or completely unscripted promos would have a domino effect to improve so many other aspects of the overall product. If there's an authenticity to how wrestlers talk, all the other bullshit would be exposed and have to be improved upon.

Yep. Saw Reigns and the Usos have the most unbelievable, unnatural cousin talk ever on Monday.

"You know how I am: one versus all."
"But sometimes uce, one needs all."

Fuck all of this. Why aren't these guys out there being made to look like natural superstars?

 

[Arrowgigantic]

Why aren't these guys out there being made to look like natural superstars?

Because they aren't.

 

[The Silver]

Yep. Saw Reigns and the Usos have the most unbelievable, unnatural cousin talk ever on Monday.

"You know how I am: one versus all."
"But sometimes uce, one needs all."

Fuck all of this. Why aren't these guys out there being made to look like natural superstars?

gotta push one vs all branding to sell more t shirts man, fuck natural sounding conversations. Vince just can't accept Roman isn't that guy who can spout off constant catch phrases while sounding natural like The Rock or deliver white meat promos with charisma like Cena.

Imagine if they had Brock come out every week saying suplex city, it would be dead in the water, Heyman however has the silver tongue say damn near anything and get it over.

 

[Mahonay]

gotta push one vs all branding to sell more t shirts man, fuck natural sounding conversations. Vince just can't accept Roman isn't that guy who can spout off constant catch phrases while sounding natural like The Rock or deliver white meat promos with charisma like Cena.

Imagine if they had Brock come out every week saying suplex city, it would be dead in the water, Heyman however has the silver tongue say damn near anything and get it over.

The commentary team has already killed Suplex City. They kill most things.

 

[Demoskinos]

The commentary team has already killed Suplex City. They kill most things.

Yup. They do. Every time something catches on like Fandango's music they just drill it into the fucking ground until everyone ends up hating it.

 

[The Silver]

The commentary team has already killed Suplex City. They kill most things.

fans still chant it, still count the suplexes, its fine

Roman however already killed the one really good promo he had by overusing that "I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a good guy" line.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

So I don't follow wrestling super closely, but I do follow it enough to be aware of how much WWE is pushing Roman and how much fans are rejecting him.

I understand the rationale is fans at live shows and the Internet do not necessarily share opinions with the more mainstream audience, but I'm a little confused by that.

Wrestling occurs before a live audience, whose reactions inform and influence more casual fans watching on tv. How do you get casual fans to like Roman Reigns if every shot of him is echoed by thunderous boos? Similarly, for supposedly unmarkatable talent that are beloved by hardcore fans, wouldn't the sheer cheering they get help out those people over with casual fans?

 

[Discotheque]

Yep. Saw Reigns and the Usos have the most unbelievable, unnatural cousin talk ever on Monday.

"You know how I am: one versus all."
"But sometimes uce, one needs all."

Fuck all of this. Why aren't these guys out there being made to look like natural superstars?

Lmao that was terrible. It's baffling how you have the rock, arguably one of the best ever to grab the mic in wrestling, being related to these wastemen

I think it's the scripted crap that hurts them too though. But tbh i don't think roman would have much with or without a script

 

[Mahonay]

fans still chant it, still count the suplexes, its fine

Roman however already killed the one really good promo he had by overusing that "I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a good guy" line.

That repeated promo is not good, it's their shitty way of making it look like he's cognizant of the boos. The commentary team just flat out ignoring the fact Roman is getting booed like crazy now every week is worse in a lot of ways. They even attempted to lie to the home audience at the RAW after Mania. The massive boos for Roman started immediately as he came out, and they had commentary try to explain it away by saying that crowd is always rowdy, that they boo who they'd normally cheer and cheer who they'd normally boo. Fuck off with that.

 

[Hidden One]

Wan't ratings? Make New Day WWE Champion with Free Bird rules.

 

[Nekofrog]

rofl yeah, the opposite day thing on RAW after mania was so mind numbingly stupid that I couldn't believe it actually happened

 

[Mahonay]

rofl yeah, the opposite day thing on RAW after mania was so mind numbingly stupid that I couldn't believe it actually happened

IT'S OPPOSITE DAY HERE MAGGLE. THESE FANS ARE CRAZY!

 

[Queen of Hunting]

They used a video of roman doing make a wish on raw to stop boos they really need yo fucking let it go n let roman breathe n give someone else main event.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

They used a video of roman doing make a wish on raw to stop boos they really need yo fucking let it go n let roman breathe n give someone else main event.

or just turn him heel

 

[The Silver]

That repeated promo is not good, it's their shitty way of making it look like he's cognizant of the boos. The commentary team just flat out ignoring the fact Roman is getting booed like crazy now every week is worse in a lot of ways. They even attempted to lie to the home audience at the RAW after Mania. The massive boos for Roman started immediately as he came out, and they had commentary try to explain it away by saying that crowd is always rowdy, that they boo who they'd normally cheer and cheer who they'd normally boo. Fuck off with that.

yes the commentary team was treating the audience like braindead idiots, one of things I can't stand the most, incredibly condescending.

Roman had a good promo(for him), outside of commentary bullshit he was actually very comfortable with himself and what he was saying and could have been the start of a new direction for his character. I'm saying in that vacuum it was a good promo.

 

[Mahonay]

They used a video of roman doing make a wish on raw to stop boos they really need yo fucking let it go n let roman breathe n give someone else main event.

That same Make-A-Wish kid was ringside with his whole family. When Roman came out for the main event, the boos started like they always do. He went straight to the Make-A-Wish group, shook all of their hands and chatted with them. The crowd respectfully stopped the boos while this was happening. The moment he left them and climbed up to the ring, the crowd immediately rained down the loud boos at him again, lol.

 

[Acorn]

fans still chant it, still count the suplexes, its fine

Roman however already killed the one really good promo he had by overusing that "I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a good guy" line.

It was a decent line he pounded into shit in less than two weeks. It's a record.

 

[Ithil]

That same Make-A-Wish kid was ringside with his whole family. When Roman came out for the main event, the boos started like they always do. He went straight to the Make-A-Wish group, shook all of their hands and chatted with them. The crowd respectfully stopped the boos while this was happening. The moment he left them and climbed up to the ring, the crowd immediately rained down the loud boos at him again, lol.

It's that same dumb logic of "well we will team him with Popular Babyface or Wrestling Legend in a tag match, that way they'll cheer him" as though the audience are so stupid they are incapable of cheering one half of a tag team and booing the other hand.

 

[twinturbo2]

Wan't ratings? Make New Day WWE Champion with Free Bird rules.

And make it a three way feud with the Social Outcasts and the Vaudevillians. Then the Outcasts get the belt, and Enzo and Cass get involved.

That'll put butts in seats.

 

[DKehoe]

Lmao that was terrible. It's baffling how you have the rock, arguably one of the best ever to grab the mic in wrestling, being related to these wastemen

I think it's the scripted crap that hurts them too though. But tbh i don't think roman would have much with or without a script

They aren't actually related to The Rock. But yeh, that sort of scripting makes it so hard to relate to a lot of the characters in WWE. They just don't talk like real people.

 

[HazySaiyan]

Because they aren't.

And who's fault is that? Between the unnatural, robotic promos and nonsensical, boring storylines it's no wonder the wrestlers can't make a connection with the fans. WWE is neutering its own talent. You'd never get a Stone Cold or Rock today, if Vince had his way they'd have still been The Ringmaster and Rocky Maivia.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

And who's fault is that?

Jimmy, Jey, and Roman's. None of them have charisma that matches their push. They are just some kids trying to be wrestlers. They don't know what the fuck they're doing, and Vince not knowing either doesn't have anything to do with it, plenty of others have overcome that.

 

[Anth0ny]

Yep. Saw Reigns and the Usos have the most unbelievable, unnatural cousin talk ever on Monday.

"You know how I am: one versus all."
"But sometimes uce, one needs all."

Fuck all of this. Why aren't these guys out there being made to look like natural superstars?

you forgot how it ended.

"Yeah, but sometimes all needs one."

can't make this shit up.

 

[Hasney]

"Remember that gangbang we were in uce? That was all versus one"

 

[Rockandrollclown]

or just turn him heel

Its so damn simple. He has to go heel at this point. There is no salvaging Reigns as a face at this moment in time. Honestly, I think he could be a beautiful heel. I certainly want to see someone punch him in the face every time he starts his "I'm not a good guy..." routine. Reigns is like the only guy on the roster that I legit hate, as I should hate a heel.

 

[Sephzilla]

Wan't ratings? Make New Day WWE Champion with Free Bird rules.

 

[OnPoint]

If they'd pull their heads out of their asses they'd see that Roman is the perfect heel -- all the work is already done, they just need to pull the ripcord. Have him embrace the boos. Have him ask for the boos. Have him relish in it with a huge smile. Let him make fun of the fans for having bad taste. Go polar opposite of The Rock -- Taunt them that their champion is not a champion of the people, but one of pure skill and talent. You think they're booing now? They'd tear the roof off if they actually went with it.

Spoiler

And don't mix him up with Steph and HHH. Let him stay on the outside of EVERYONE. That part is actually perfect.

Build this up over a few months. Hell, run it all the way to Summerslam. Then, over that time, you can use that hatred to build up the counterpoint in a face that should, in theory, get the opposite amount of cheers and love. Dangle a title match in front of the fans between Reigns and the face and have him fight someone different every month instead. Then have them fight at Summerslam, make it a good, memorable match, put the belt on the face, and you have yourself your new guy.

But I know they'll keep forcing Regins as "the guy" instead. Which is a shame.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

The problem with Romeva Mareigns as an angle is that it's too meta. When Foley made fun of hardcore wrestling it worked because you knew Foley was a great hardcore wrestler. Having Romeva Mareigns make fun of being talented doesn't work that way.

 

[Rockandrollclown]

The problem with Romeva Mareigns as an angle is that it's too meta. When Foley made fun of hardcore wrestling it worked because you knew Foley was a great hardcore wrestler. Having Romeva Mareigns make fun of being talented doesn't work that way.

Honestly, Reigns doesn't need to change much to go heel. Just have him start cheating. He already has the smug disposition of a heel.

 

[OnPoint]

Honestly, Reigns doesn't need to change much to go heel. Just have him start cheating. He already has the smug disposition of a heel.

Yes! This exactly! It would only take a few small changes to make it work. The fans would eat it up and go from distaste to hate. They need to pivot and use this unintentional momentum to their advantage.

 

[MetatronM]

I mentioned this previously in this thread, but the production values of Raw are one example of how "outdated" Raw comes off in terms of presentation, and it's honestly a relatively "easy fix" in relation to their other issues.

They've basically been using the same set for Raw for years now:

They use the same camera angles as they have previously.

They use the same style of replays during the match (split-screen stuff).

And even the theme song they use for Raw is relatively low-key compared to previous Raw themes in the past (subjective I know, but still).



All of it is something that's been in dire need of an overhaul for awhile now.

Until this set, they generally changed the Raw set every 1-3 years.

This set has now been in use for OVER EIGHT YEARS. George W. Bush was president when they started using the current Raw set. The iPhone was a floundering 2G curiosity when they started using the current Raw set. The Patriots were still 18-0 when they started using the current Raw set.

 

[Heel]

Views from the Cliff

 

[Anth0ny]

Until this set, they generally changed the Raw set every 1-3 years.

This set has now been in use for OVER EIGHT YEARS. George W. Bush was president when they started using the current Raw set. The iPhone was a floundering 2G curiosity when they started using the current Raw set. The Patriots were still 18-0 when they started using the current Raw set.

it'll probably stick around until vince dies and dunn is out on his ass

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

You know what they need to do more of? Rasslemen looking at a television backstage.

 

[HazySaiyan]

Jimmy, Jey, and Roman's. None of them have charisma that matches their push. They are just some kids trying to be wrestlers. They don't know what the fuck they're doing, and Vince not knowing either doesn't have anything to do with it, plenty of others have overcome that.

It's still on Vince though. At the end of the day he makes the booking decisions, and if the people he wants to push aren't up to snuff then it's up to Vince to slot somebody else in there. The roster isn't just Roman Reigns and the Usos, there's plenty of wrestlers who could step if given the opportunity and enough creative freedom.

 

[Anth0ny]

samoan super heel group of roman, usos and joe is still the perfect thing that will never happen

 

[dskillzhtown]

I know ratings are tanking, but how is WWE Network doing?

 

[mightynine]

There is only one answer and that's to bring back The Union Underground theme.

 

[psynergylover]

I'm Dying!!!

 

[Zabka]

Only one thing will bring the ratings back up: More non-title matches where champions are jobbed out

 

[RBH]

There is only one answer and that's to bring back The Union Underground theme.

Or Thorn In Your Eye!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRJOVQLM5Qg

 

[Bubba T]

I swear wrestling is the only thing where fans asked to be worked. It's hilarious.

 

[RBH]

Views from the Cliff

lmao

 

[mightynine]

Or Thorn In Your Eye!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRJOVQLM5Qg

Join the WWF Superstars in guessing the lyrics to Thorn In Your Eye!

 

[Glorified G]

If they'd pull their heads out of their asses they'd see that Roman is the perfect heel -- all the work is already done, they just need to pull the ripcord. Have him embrace the boos. Have him ask for the boos. Have him relish in it with a huge smile. Let him make fun of the fans for having bad taste. Go polar opposite of The Rock -- Taunt them that their champion is not a champion of the people, but one of pure skill and talent. You think they're booing now? They'd tear the roof off if they actually went with it.

Spoiler

And don't mix him up with Steph and HHH. Let him stay on the outside of EVERYONE. That part is actually perfect.

Build this up over a few months. Hell, run it all the way to Summerslam. Then, over that time, you can use that hatred to build up the counterpoint in a face that should, in theory, get the opposite amount of cheers and love. Dangle a title match in front of the fans between Reigns and the face and have him fight someone different every month instead. Then have them fight at Summerslam, make it a good, memorable match, put the belt on the face, and you have yourself your new guy.

But I know they'll keep forcing Regins as "the guy" instead. Which is a shame.

Look at every single main event heel in the last 20 years in the WWE. This is a guy that fumbled over short scripted lines in the past. You expect him to go out an open RAW every week with a scripted 20 minute promo? Because that's what main event heels do with the exception of Brock who is a part timer.

Then you have the whole work rate issue as heels are expected to work and carry the majority of the matches. Not only Roman blows up when he's not even on offense, working heel would literally take away the only redeeming quality he has as a worker. His big comeback sequence.

If he was in the mid card or back as a tag team wrestler, no one would bat an eye. The fans are rejecting his push, not his character. Turning him heel would highlight all his weaknesses and take away all his strength. He's this generations Billy Gunn. A guy with a great look who excels as the hot tag babyface and when pushed beyond that role flounders.

Honestly, Reigns doesn't need to change much to go heel. Just have him start cheating. He already has the smug disposition of a heel.

The psychology would be all over the place and doesn't make sense. He's a babyface that sells for most of the match yet tries to cheat to win?

 

[The Culture Vulture]

You know what they need to do more of? Rasslemen looking at a television backstage.

Why don't they ever sit or stand in front of the television? They are always watching completely offline, hurts my neck.

 

[Ithil]

Why don't they ever sit or stand in front of the television? They are always watching completely offline, hurts my neck.

Because for some reason they seem to think the wrestlers always have to be facing the camera or else people won't know who they are or something?

 

[Ronin Ray]

samoan super heel group of roman, usos and joe is still the perfect thing that will never happen

Please no. If anything Joe should be a monster heel and feud with them. The story line is simple Joe is mad and angry they get a push because of there family tree. You can have Joe pissed he has been passed over because he's not a part of the Anoaʻi family and he has had to kill himself to make it and these guys get a pass. I think it could be a great feud and really build Joe up. Plus at some point you get Joe and the Rock interacting which is a dream of mine.

 

[DMczaf]

Views from the Cliff

Lmao you out did yourself