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[Hazaro]

I feel people are underrating combat specialists. They get a nice power spike from Rifles, can reliably take down early mechs / remove overwatch, have a good balance of aim and good secondary overwatch skills that pair well with exectuion and stocks come late game. Shutdown % are lifesavers a lot of the time as well.

They aren't so good you want to run 3 of them, but you can easily use 2/6 and not hurt that much imo. Almost always take 1.

 

[King Tubby]

I feel people are underrating combat specialists. They get a nice power spike from Rifles, can reliably take down early mechs / remove overwatch, have a good balance of aim and good secondary overwatch skills that pair well with exectuion and stocks come late game. Shutdown % are lifesavers a lot of the time as well.

They aren't so good you want to run 3 of them, but you can easily use 2/6 and not hurt that much imo. Almost always take 1.

Threat Assessment Aid Protocol is also a powerful skill that really helps in situations where there is little good cover to be found. You can put one of your units in half cover and have the extra insurance of an overwatch shot.

 

[User 85168]

I feel people are underrating combat specialists. They get a nice power spike from Rifles, can reliably take down early mechs / remove overwatch, have a good balance of aim and good secondary overwatch skills that pair well with exectuion and stocks come late game. Shutdown % are lifesavers a lot of the time as well.

They aren't so good you want to run 3 of them, but you can easily use 2/6 and not hurt that much imo. Almost always take 1.

I always took one. The guaranteed damage from combat protocol and the aoe overload are excellent.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Soldier biographies need to be much longer. I want to chronicle everything.

 

[Hazaro]

Anyone seen the Best Friends Ironman playthrough? Watch it and feel better about your own skills.

This later is better imo: https://youtu.be/OEBRpsoQbzY?t=1796

I'm super guilty of never remembering this early game.

 

[Rentahamster]

I feel people are underrating combat specialists. They get a nice power spike from Rifles, can reliably take down early mechs / remove overwatch, have a good balance of aim and good secondary overwatch skills that pair well with exectuion and stocks come late game. Shutdown % are lifesavers a lot of the time as well.

They aren't so good you want to run 3 of them, but you can easily use 2/6 and not hurt that much imo. Almost always take 1.

Yeah, at first I wasn't too hot on them because of their low damage output, but I was able to squeeze a lot more damage output out of them on subsequent runs by using threat assessment a lot more, as well as stacking aim to maximize the proccing of Guardian.

 

[Vena]

Welp.

That crit/miss bug just cost me my best scout. Two disoriented Mutons? Full cover? Nah. Here's two crits.

 

[Sblargh]

Maybe would be cool to do a side GAF pool for original (non-pop culture) characters.

 

[User 85168]

Welp.

That crit/miss bug just cost me my best scout. Two disoriented Mutons? Full cover? Nah. Here's two crits.

It's BS but that's just how the game calculates hits and crits. Somehow the devs thought it would be a great idea to calculate miss/dodge/hit/crit off of the single random roll.

This is why when disoriented/flashbanged enemies hit your soldiers it's very likely to be a critical hit.

 

[mbpm1]

What? Why would they make it that way?

 

[Sulik2]

She has a stock and an Advanced Repeater. Which I think makes the odds of what she did exactly 1%.

I had a ranger with double tap save me on that last mission from the jaws of defeat. That mission was tough.

He ended up off on his own cause I had to swing him out to get an Ava. Mission was going badly, but my ranger was still up. He survived the last turn with a clutch reaction sword hit on a charging muton. He got to miss the overwatch shot with the skill as I run and gunned him. Then it was hit both shots on a double tap and need a critical on one or I'm gonna wipe the next round. He critted on both 65 percentage shots and won the mission. That feeling is amazing.

 

[User 85168]

What? Why would they make it that way?

It literally makes no sense to me. As far as I know it wasn't done this way in Enemy Unknown/Within. It also is why a 100% hit chance shot can be dodged.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/465qkf/visualization_of_how_hit_chance_crit_chance_and/

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=624799134

Here's the reddit discussion about it, and a mod to revert it to the old system. I haven't used the mod so I cannot vouch for your saves!

 

[Falk]

Makes a lot of sense to me but I used to tank in WoW.

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I was under the impression it worked that way for dodge and hit, but I didn't know crit worked that way. Seems okay to me. The more I think about it, the more I am okay with it.

But, what happens when you have 100% crit, 100% hit, and 50% dodge? I guess you would have 1/3rd chance to dodge and 2/3rds chance to crit?

 

[LurkerPrime]

Oh, wait.. so if you have a 40% chance to hit and a 40% crit chance, you can only crit the target?

That's bananas. Jake Solomon, what were you thinking!

I was under the impression it worked that way for dodge and hit, but I didn't know crit worked that way. Seems okay to me. The more I think about it, the more I am okay with it.

But, what happens when you have 100% crit, 100% hit, and 50% dodge? I guess you would have 1/3rd chance to dodge and 2/3rds chance to crit?

Dodge overrides crit, according to that chart.

 

[mbpm1]

I was under the impression it worked that way for dodge and hit, but I didn't know crit worked that way. Seems okay to me. The more I think about it, the more I am okay with it.

But, what happens when you have 100% crit, 100% hit, and 50% dodge? I guess you would have 1/3rd chance to dodge and 2/3rds chance to crit?

Why

 

[User 85168]

I was under the impression it worked that way for dodge and hit, but I didn't know crit worked that way. Seems okay to me. The more I think about it, the more I am okay with it.

But, what happens when you have 100% crit, 100% hit, and 50% dodge? I guess you would have 1/3rd chance to dodge and 2/3rds chance to crit?

As far as I understand it dodge is taken last, so it would be 50/50 dodge or crit. No in between.

 

[Hazaro]

As far as I understand it dodge is taken last, so it would be 50/50 dodge or crit. No in between.

Correct.

Also I modded that out: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=624799134

 

[LurkerPrime]

Seriously. Crushing the roll like that is the exact opposite of how anyone would expect rolls to happen. D&D style rolls for everything or bust, unless they've got a very compelling reason for doing it this way.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I guess I would have gone with a different system then and misread it initially.

 

[epmode]

As far as I understand it dodge is taken last, so it would be 50/50 dodge or crit. No in between.

That feels pretty broken. Unintuitive at least.

 

[Jintor]

I'd love to pick the design team's brains about some of these decisions...

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I'd love to pick the design team's brains about some of these decisions...

I happen to have a diagram of what that would look like.

 

[Jintor]

That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Rentahamster]

Wait, so if you can repeat the blacksite mission if you fail it, does that mean you can just kill everything on the map, evac, and then repeat, for lots of quick EXP?

 

[RandomSeed]

They should just simulate rolling bones or maybe reading tea leaves to figure out what hits.

 

[LurkerPrime]

I think I now have a love/hate relationship with XCOM 2.

Feels weird.

That doesn't make any sense.

Neither do Firaxis' decisions. It's a perfect fit.

 

[Poodlestrike]

There is something to be said for increasing the chance that that 1 in a million shot is always effective.

 

[Vena]

lol now since I don't have a scout, I am using rookies as "scouts" by just sending them running forward to flush out enemies.

 

[Jintor]

There is something to be said for increasing the chance that that 1 in a million shot is always effective.

Discworld rules

However, you have to get the odds exactly 1 in a million or it just plinks off the armour or something.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Discworld rules

However, you have to get the odds exactly 1 in a million or it just plinks off the armour or something.

...

I'm gonna go write that mod. 1% shots always hit, and always crit.

 

[Sblargh]

I think they done this way to make the game harder, simply.

I modded it to EU rolls, too, as it is more intuitive to assume a 100% crit shot will crit. But their reason might have been to remove this safety net.

 

[mercviper]

Don't really see a problem with miss/crit/dodge being one roll.

 

[Jintor]

Don't really see a problem with miss/crit/dodge being one roll.

The main issue at present seems to be that if you get hit out of a flashbang it's far more likely to be a crit than anything else, which is counter-intuitive

 

[Vena]

Welp. There went my gunslinger. Gonna need to get lucky on some easy farm missions.

I've lost two Captains over two missions.

 

[Hazaro]

Welp. There went my gunslinger. Gonna need to get lucky on some easy farm missions.

I've lost two Captains over two missions.

I shifted my late game priorities to unit replacements (saving supply/intel to buy them)

 

[mercviper]

The main issue at present seems to be that if you get hit out of a flashbang it's far more likely to be a crit than anything else, which is counter-intuitive

I mean, I get it. I just don't see why people have a hard time seeing it the other way around as well? 30% crit tells me 30% of my shots will crit so if I shoot something 10 times I should expect 3 crits, which is how the system works. It doesn't make flashbangs any worse, it just means crit/dodge are really strong in the system. Critting you through a flash bang and heavy cover just means you would've been crit anyway unless you could lower their hit chance further.

Actually hunker down is super good defensively given how it works. Hunkering in low cover gives you -50 to being hit and 50% dodge so they need over 100% to hit in order to do full damage.

 

[Hazaro]

I mean, I get it. I just don't see why people have a hard time seeing it the other way around as well? 30% crit tells me 30% of my shots will crit so if I shoot something 10 times I should expect 3 crits, which is how the system works. It doesn't make flashbangs any worse, it just means crit/dodge are really strong in the system. Critting you through a flash bang and heavy cover just means you would've been crit anyway unless you could lower their hit chance further.

Actually hunker down is super good defensively given how it works. Hunkering in low cover gives you -50 to being hit and 50% dodge so they need over 100% to hit in order to do full damage.

Maybe you aren't getting the numbers (Just being sure)

Snektits takes a shot 40% to hit, 10% to Crit: Crit Chance is 25% if it hits (Dice roll of 1-100 determines hit and crit together, A 1-10 = hit+crit, 11-40 = hit, 41-100 = miss)
You Flashbang and Aid Protocol and the shot is 5% to hit, 10% to Crit: Crit Chance is 100% if it hits (Instead of 0.5% the Crit Chance is 5% (The same as hit chance))

 

[mercviper]

Maybe you aren't getting the numbers (Just being sure)

Snektits takes a shot 40% to hit, 10% to Crit: Crit Chance is 25% if it hits (Dice roll of 1-100 determines hit and crit together, A 1-10 = hit+crit, 11-40 = hit, 41-100 = miss)
You Flashbang and Aid Protocol and the shot is 5% to hit, 10% to Crit: Crit Chance is 100% if it hits (Instead of 0.5% the Crit Chance is 5% (The same as hit chance))

Yeah just I don't see why this is considered a flawed system. There's two ways to interpret crit % and just because crit isn't a % of hit doesn't mean the system doesn't make sense. Already agreed with Jintor that it's counter-intuitive to initial thoughts (as evidenced by all the complaints) but I disagree with a need to change the system.

Someone else mentioned it should be D&D style rolls but it is a D&D style roll. In 5e you crit on 20s so an attack vs DC20 with no bonuses will always crit if it hits. /shrug. As long as the system is known and fair then it should be fine.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Maybe you aren't getting the numbers (Just being sure)

Snektits takes a shot 40% to hit, 10% to Crit: Crit Chance is 25% if it hits (Dice roll of 1-100 determines hit and crit together, A 1-10 = hit+crit, 11-40 = hit, 41-100 = miss)
You Flashbang and Aid Protocol and the shot is 5% to hit, 10% to Crit: Crit Chance is 100% if it hits (Instead of 0.5% the Crit Chance is 5% (The same as hit chance))

In other words, because hit chance is calculated by taking hit chance minus crit chance (5% hit - 10% crit), you can have a result where the chance to crit is the only possible outcome other than missing. Since flashbangs don't reduce chance to crit, it actually raises the chance that there will be a crit if it is not a miss.

So 30% crit does not mean 30% of your hits will be crits. It actually is dependent on the % chance to hit. The higher the %hit, the lower the chance to crit will be on landed shots. And that is on a target that doesn't have dodge.

 

[Jintor]

I don't personally see anything wrong with it in theory but the counter-intuitivness of it actually being more dangerous to get shot by a blinded enemy than less (though your chances of actually being shot are lower) seems strange.

 

[Falk]

It also makes crit by itself a valuable stat. Or, at the very least, much easier to quantify from a benefit assessment.

If crits were a % of hits rather than % of all shots, hit would be a far more valuable stat up to 100% (not common in XCOM) since it'd increase both your chance to hit and chance to crit.

A 1-roll system makes it independent. Chance to hit increases your chance to hit. Chance to crit increases your chance to crit. Exception being when your Crit% is higher than your Hit% (and when does that really ever happen)

 

[LurkerPrime]

Oh yeah. Suddenly the +15% crit mod is god-tier.

...I thought they were practically useless before.


Alright, I'm back on board with this system. I guess the hit chance and crit chance aren't deceptive or anything (since they're all based on the same roll) but man is it hella confusing. I doubt a single person thought it worked this way before the news leaked.

 

[Metroidvania]

Dodge overriding hit AND crit is what irks me.

Especially when dodge on your soldiers is near-useless without a mod to revert the 'wounded' status to needing to drop below the bonus amount provided by armor to be counted as wounded, or to have medkit heals override wounded state if healed in mission.

 

[manfestival]

Just skull jacked a codex for the first time and D:

 

[Jintor]

Just skull jacked a codex for the first time and D:

hahah! good times.

 

[Falk]

I doubt a single person thought it worked this way before the news leaked.

Honestly there are a lot of game systems that could have been better explained, but eh, ultimately we aren't even a month out from release.

People working out how enemies (generally) reacted to overwatch for example, wasn't something that came right out of the gate with EU.

Dodge overriding hit AND crit is what irks me.

Especially when dodge on your soldiers is near-useless without a mod to revert the 'wounded' status to needing to drop below the bonus amount provided by armor to be counted as wounded, or to have medkit heals override wounded state if healed in mission.

Yeah, although I feel that's more of a problem with the wounded/recovery mechanic and tuning than it is with the rolls. As it is, it makes Hunker Down pretty damn sweet, sorta like how Shield Block would push crushing blows off the table in WoW.

 

[Jintor]

is ufoepedia still glaringly empty? the week after EU launched it was already full of data mines... I think.

 

[SRG01]

The real power of the specialist is the ability to do guaranteed damage, dependent only on line of sight. It has saved me so many times when my guys come up slightly short of clearing a pod.

is ufoepedia still glaringly empty? the week after EU launched it was already full of data mines... I think.

Last I checked, yes. A lot of entries are still empty, but possibly because no one is contributing.

 

[Jintor]

guaranteed damage is nothing to sneeze at ever. it's why nades are so powerful. that and the cover destruction