marvelharvey
Member
Shit, I'm surrounded by enemies! At least skulljacking this codex will remove one of them from the playingfield and make things safer... Oh fuck!
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XCOM 2 |OT| Be Aggressive! Be Be Aggressive!
- Thread starter Sober
- Start date
I think Capacitor Discharge also ignores LOS, although I may be high and just actually thinking of the AE effect hitting stuff he couldn't see, rather than being able to actually select a tile out of LOS.
Naw, I'm pretty sure you don't need LOS for Capacitor Discharge.
Yeah too bad the way it pushes things off the roll isn't very intuitive or makes sense. It should literally push crit off the table and shift hit into its space.Makes a lot of sense to me but I used to tank in WoW.
¯\_(ツ_/¯
Tempted to do a harder run but probably will get the mod that gives you D&D style rolls honestly.
Again, that's a two way street. That would make high-dodge enemies (which is like everything in Legendary) impossible to crit.
edit: Unless I'm misunderstanding you (probably am!) since you mentioned D&D style rolls which is more similar to yellow attacks in old-school WoW on a two-roll system. Then yeah, the proportion between hits and crits on landed attacks remains, but it's much more of a bitch to calculate benefit assessment from crit boosts, etc.
edit: Unless I'm misunderstanding you (probably am!) since you mentioned D&D style rolls which is more similar to yellow attacks in old-school WoW on a two-roll system. Then yeah, the proportion between hits and crits on landed attacks remains, but it's much more of a bitch to calculate benefit assessment from crit boosts, etc.
Lost two Soldiers to my first Viper encounter last night.
Infuriating wasn't even the word. The first time I've been seriously annoyed with Xcom 2.
4 over 60% shots and 2 overwatch shots all missed on the one Viper. God damn...
I lost two good Soldiers over it. It didn't help that my stupid Sniper panicked and started running away from his high vantage point automatically.
Infuriating wasn't even the word. The first time I've been seriously annoyed with Xcom 2.
4 over 60% shots and 2 overwatch shots all missed on the one Viper. God damn...
I lost two good Soldiers over it. It didn't help that my stupid Sniper panicked and started running away from his high vantage point automatically.
It's enough to make Hunker Down completely push everything other than dodge off the table, at least. There's a PCS + GTS boost which is about 30?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Plus wraith armor grants dodge too, right? Although I wonder if the two levels of armor from a WAR suit, plus a level or armor from Blast Paddding might synergize with stacked dodge better? I have no idea how damage is calculated though.
I guess ultimately I feel that right now this is really more of an academic than practical discussion since, as discussed slightly prior, the whole wounded mechanic still makes taking hits an absolute last resort, whether you take half damage (or quarter, compared to crits) or not. Unless you have a huge-ass roster of high-ranked soldiers.
Just finished my co-op C/I run with a friend. Stats here: http://imgur.com/a/vGF84
Almost xcommed out at this point so I dunno if I'll finish my L/I run. Have mag weapons and plated armor with plasma nades just around the corner. My crew is only 7 strong though so it's a thin line between killing it and losing the campaign lol.
Almost xcommed out at this point so I dunno if I'll finish my L/I run. Have mag weapons and plated armor with plasma nades just around the corner. My crew is only 7 strong though so it's a thin line between killing it and losing the campaign lol.
The final mission is just ridiculous what the hell is this. I thought I was ready, but no. Here's more enemy while you miss 90% shots bitch.
Fun fact: I mind-controlled some Chrysallids because I like their poison, however, LOL, the spawned Chrysallids off their kills are never loyal to you. Makes sense. Fuck me.
Fun fact: I mind-controlled some Chrysallids because I like their poison, however, LOL, the spawned Chrysallids off their kills are never loyal to you. Makes sense. Fuck me.
It's not flawed it just was never explained is was changed from the previous games and explains why debuffed Ayys always crit you in full cover. Suddenly your defensive maneuvers INCREASE that chance of death, but lower chance of taking damage.
It scales (like all laser sights). Up close they are like +16/22/28% + 20% from Talon + 15% from shotgun + 40% from flank and GTS bonus +3 = 42 Damage a shot with Rapid Fire.
Plus they clutch you through while your grenadiers get kitted up.
Wat.
If an enemy has 85 chance to hit, 20% crit (numbers pulled out of ass), not taking any dodge bonus you have or aim angle/height advantage into account:
Low cover: (20% defense)
- 35% chance to miss
- 45% chance to hit
- 20% chance to crit
High cover: (40% defense)
- 55% chance to miss
- 25% chance to hit
- 20% chance to crit
High cover + disorient: (40% defense, 25% aim penalty)
- 80% chance to miss
- 0% chance to hit
- 20% chance to crit
In every case, a shot taken by the enemy still has 20% chance to crit. "increase that chance of death" is factually incorrect.
I agree. I think the single roll is fine but weird edge cases make it unintuitive (like when you can't hit but you can still crit, which to me is just a hit), at least for me. 2-roll system makes more sense but I also value consistent damage over time to discrete bursts although the game probably doesn't work for it vs. like a WoW raid boss that's taking in hundreds of damage instances over 3 to 10 minutes.
I also think the problem is that dodge is kinda like a gotcha later on in the game because you have no access to whatever dodge the enemy has against your aim values, so it's really up to you to know who has it and how much.
And also because of how wounding works, yeah. I guess it's nice we have mods that help rectify these things.
Uhhh yeah, what Falk said.
no pls I did my 2am math
Snektits takes a shot 40% to hit (Full cover), 10% to Crit: Crit Chance is 25% if it hits
(2.5% probability)
You Flashbang (-15) and Aid Protocol (-20) and the shot is 5% to hit, 10% to Crit: Crit Chance is 100% if it hits
(5% Critical Hit chance)
oh shit my math is not correct I am making mistakes those numbers dont do that
The thing is that Crit implies hit since it's the same roll which is what I got caught on.
Atraveller
Banned
Is this going to get patched?
Yeh, there's also the semantics issue of "100% chance to crit on shots taken that land", which is very different from "still a fraction of all shots taken". The latter is the right way to look at it.
This seems like a very deliberate design decision. Not sure why it would get patched.
There's mods that change it already. Look for EU rolls or something like that.
But as Falk said, I think it is meant to be this way, so no matter what you do, you are still in some danger.
On another news, I have something like 110 face paints and 80 armor patterns, didn't had the courage to count the tattoos. I need a UI mod now that sort it like it does collours, with numbers and stuff, because the list is not helping my method of punching a number on random.org to know which lipstick my grenadier will be wearing.
Shake Appeal
Member
Yep. It all plays into this Reddit post, which I completely agree with:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/476ckv/xcom_2s_gameplay_is_too_binary/
yep, the game is not designed around taking damage. anything but a flawless is a more or less a waste of time. it's imo very bad game design.
I'm not too sure if going slightly towards binary is inherently a bad thing. Yes, snowballing generally is a problem for tuning long-form games, which is why everything from Civ (happiness on large empires) to WC3 (army size vs gold mining penalty) have mechanics that curb it.
On the other hand, I really think that the strategic metagame being too strict in turn feeds into the tactical layer feeling binary. Wounded soldiers really, REALLY suck because if you're not at top condition in terms of your roster, you lose the power creep arms race, which is far more pronounced than in EU. If taking wounds wasn't such a huge subsequent penalty, the tactical layer would be a lot less binary even without many other changes.
This is what I'd do:
- Increase soldier XP per kill/mission
- Make recruits slightly less rare. I understand the whole guerrilla ragtag concept but as it is it's too limiting. (Unfortunately due to the ubiquity of engineers you'll always go for an engineer over a soldier reward)
- Have a similar mechanic to Long War's fatigue to force roster rotations
This sets a baseline where even with perfect play and flawless missions out the wazoo, you'll get a rotating roster that's at least on par with the current metagame's top squad at any point in the arms race, which in turn makes wounds and having a couple of soldiers out of commision not nearly as debilitating. That means it's a lot more acceptable to take hits (as long as they don't crit and 1-shot you) which opens up a lot more tactics w.r.t mitigation and at least guaranteeing you don't get crit even if you're potentially going to get shot at.
Oh, and obviously it goes without saying that wound severity needs to be a little more deterministic, rather than the crapshoot it is right now.
On the other hand, I really think that the strategic metagame being too strict in turn feeds into the tactical layer feeling binary. Wounded soldiers really, REALLY suck because if you're not at top condition in terms of your roster, you lose the power creep arms race, which is far more pronounced than in EU. If taking wounds wasn't such a huge subsequent penalty, the tactical layer would be a lot less binary even without many other changes.
This is what I'd do:
- Increase soldier XP per kill/mission
- Make recruits slightly less rare. I understand the whole guerrilla ragtag concept but as it is it's too limiting. (Unfortunately due to the ubiquity of engineers you'll always go for an engineer over a soldier reward)
- Have a similar mechanic to Long War's fatigue to force roster rotations
This sets a baseline where even with perfect play and flawless missions out the wazoo, you'll get a rotating roster that's at least on par with the current metagame's top squad at any point in the arms race, which in turn makes wounds and having a couple of soldiers out of commision not nearly as debilitating. That means it's a lot more acceptable to take hits (as long as they don't crit and 1-shot you) which opens up a lot more tactics w.r.t mitigation and at least guaranteeing you don't get crit even if you're potentially going to get shot at.
Oh, and obviously it goes without saying that wound severity needs to be a little more deterministic, rather than the crapshoot it is right now.
Dick Justice
Banned
Dodging is a load of fucking bollocks, especially with archons. You can be concealed, have 100% chance to hit and a disoriented target, but they can still fucking dodge. Stupid design decision.
Shake Appeal
Member
I coulda used some flashbangs in that final room, lemme tell you. Had to fall back on a capacitor discharge instead.
No, but really, disorient reduces aim, will, mobility. From a pure mechanics standpoint I don't see why it doesn't also reduce dodge. If you're so dazed you can't aim straight and are more open to mental attacks, being able to dodge at full power makes no sense unless you're one of those drunken kung-fu master types.
Shot in the dark being maybe it was an oversight considering dodge is a new stat compared to EU/EW? Heh.
edit: also before anyone points it out, yes, I'm completely aware of the irony of this post in the light that I'm totally fine with disorient not technically reducing crit until it actually clips on the hit table.
Shot in the dark being maybe it was an oversight considering dodge is a new stat compared to EU/EW? Heh.
edit: also before anyone points it out, yes, I'm completely aware of the irony of this post in the light that I'm totally fine with disorient not technically reducing crit until it actually clips on the hit table.
Had a PCS which gave 20% dodge and then used wraith armor that gave another 20% in my first playthrough.
Is there a mod for this?
"It's just a scratch":
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=623051340
It does make the game a bit easier, but it also makes medkits a bit more useful.
marvelharvey
Member
This AI grouping sure made the final room easy. I took out all but the
in a single turn.
Avatars
Yeah those defence missions can get out of hand if your squad is trying to retreat from across the map.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
How did you do that? You fought 53 aliens and only one person died?
Shake Appeal
Member
This is a really weird map layout to me. The two times I've done this mission, it's featured a sort of "land bridge" with two valleys on either side. The first time, the reinforcements kept dropping on the bridge, which I needed to traverse to get to the disruptor. And setting up a squadsight to the disruptor was impossible because of the bridge blocking LOS. It kinda sucked.
The second time, all the drops were in the valleys, so I could sit on the bridge and destroy everything.
Overwatching reinforcement drops is fun.
ISee
Member
This AI grouping sure made the final room easy. I took out all but thein a single turn.Avatars
Wow, that never happened to me.
I am using a mod that increases the enemy squads, so after I stabilized the initial assault (which is what cost me my one soldier), it was basically overwatching everyone and watching sci-fi recreations of Saving Private Ryan's opening scene.
The disruptor was behind a house, which blocked LOS from my snipers, so some of those 17 turns were about positioning my ranger so he could get a shot without aggroing the aliens near it.
Oh, and fun fact. I had a wounded soldier going in. During the mission, I healed him, he never got shot, so when he got out, he was no longer wounded. I think he still had some 10 days of bed rest before him.
Nothing like a good fight to get you back in your feet.
MiamiWesker
Member
This happened to me last night. Holy shit!
MiamiWesker
Member
I read the whole roll discussion and I am a bit lost. I don't play many of these games so this is a bit alien to me. There is a critical % and a critical hit %, what's the difference. Dodge is governed by what?
RandomSeed
Member
I swear nothing works like you think it should in this game. I purposefully set a Shieldbearer on fire so he at least can't get his shield off...and they can still do it?