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[camac002]

yeah, Uncharted 3. but i'll cut ND some slack for that since it was their B-Team.

This was an incredibly strange case from back then. This scene should be one of the pre-rendered "Multi-ps3" videos, so there should have been no problems at all keeping the original render. I'll make up a hypothetical scenario and say somebody fucked up when they were doing the render during crunch and maybe they had no time to change it back. It's even more jarring because the character models of the others in the bus were at full detail.

 

[ICPEE]

HOLY SHIT!!! So this means the doubters and naysayers will go away. Thank God for that too.

 

[joshcryer]

The advantage of consoles is mainly for CPU, and may be even larger if there is a strong draw call limit.

No. Consoles literally have timings down to the ms which are hardware specifications. All models of the PS3, for example, are exacting for that matter. They actually had to downgrade more modern PS3 models to assure that the timing was exact. We're talking about making sure each and every call takes the same amount of time. So on PS4 and future variants, you will expect (with perhaps some negligible variation) 1:1 call. This allows programmers to go way out of their way to write extremely tight code. ND is infamous for that.

But stating that you'd need a much better GPU to be equal to a PS4 is not true.

Depends on the engine. If an engine is specifically targeting a chipset and general hardware configuration, you're correct. If it's generalized, no, you will lose a lot of performance if you're coding generally.

That said, as the hardware becomes more advanced this matters less and less so a PS5 can probably emulate a PS4 with ease. Likewise, a PC equivalent or better, with the same kind of engine, will perform nicely.

In the end I don't disagree that ND's engine, on PC, would perform just as well if not better on a higher spec'd machine. I'm simply saying coders for PC aren't going to go out of their way to make enhancements that suit one PC configuration over the other. Basically, I don't think anyone is making that effort, yet. As you say, "openGL multidraw indirect / Mantle/Metal/DirectX 12" changes that. For now, for possibly a very short now, it's not the case.

This is one reason I think the PS4 lifecycle is 5-6 years at best.

 

[Callibretto]

yeah, Uncharted 3. but i'll cut ND some slack for that since it was their B-Team.

it's a prerendered cutscene, there's no reason why they would purposefully make it look worse. my theory about why that looks so bad compared the trailer is because they are rewriting the story, moving their setpiece around to fit the new script so they had to redo some of their trailer scene, this combined with having a tight deadline which they've openly admit that they have a hell of a time to make it, I can only guess they don't have enough time to make the new cutscene looks as good as it could have.

 

[Canis lupus]

Contrary to the popular belief 360 wasn't simple to work with. Edram, in-order PowerPC cores with SMT, common memory controller for CPU and GPU and some stuff in GPU which was the first implementation of unified shader ALUs on mass market. It was easier than PS3 but it wasn't easy. And even with that I wouldn't call a graphical jump from GeoW to say Halo 4 very big.

8 ACEs should be transparent to the developer - all code running on the GPU use them by default no matter if it's graphics code or some general purpose code. Compute isn't free, it's running on the same GPU SIMDs. Using compute means that you have less flops available for graphics shaders. It's a balance, it may shift and result in a better graphics but for now there is no guarantee that it will bring better graphics and not say better AI or sound.

360 wasn't simple to work with initially because it introduced new technologies. Devs weren't used to to the new architecture. The same is happening now, there are new technologies introduced and console devs are not used to x86-64 despite it being relevant on pc. "8 ACEs should be transparent to the developer - all code running on the GPU use them by default". So were the technologies in PS360 used by default. or do you claim the edram and common memory controller for CPU and GPU was left untouched initially, SPE/SPU's not being used because it was hard to code for?

The graphical jump from Halo 3 to Halo 4 is huuuge, or TR Legend to TR2013. We will see another bump in graphics after UC4. There will be countless optimizations, new sdk updates, more ram being freed etc.

 

[-SD-]

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

At what point did Drake start to resemble Liam Neeson??

Come to think of it, he looks a little bit like Banderas too.

 

[Orthogonal]

If there is any studio that has earned the benefit of doubt and should be believed on good faith alone it is Naughty Dog. There is no reason to doubt the trailer was real-time, in-engine until proven otherwise, this denial is just silly.

 

[Lacix]

You can't downgrade a pre-rendered cutscene. Only make it worse for no reason.

An ex developer (Hungarian) for ND who worked on U3 confirmed that there were no downgrade in visuals it is just other lighting conditions and dust effects.

 

[geordiemp]

We need naughty dog to push the boundaries of what is possible on console.

It will push other devs to polish and try a bit harder.

Hopefully ND and ICE will share their techniques and secrets and we all get better console game performance.

Those tweets from the ICE team a month or 2 ago about people being blown away seem to be coming true.

Roll on 2015

 

[i-Lo]

Really? so you are telling me this is the in-game model of Ellie and Joel?

Because i took those out of a cut scene, No, I don't think so.

People, seriously don't set yourself up for a disappointment, as you can see from those pics I've put, the difference between In-game and cinematic in a ND game can be staggering, and i bet this is the case with UC4 as well, Don't eat this PR bullshit up.

I did make a rectification where I mentioned it pertained to polycount.

 

[UrbanRats]

It's pretty stupid to say this every year, but 2015 is certainly a lot more likely to bring the bombs looking at the typical release schedule of all these studios. 2014 was simply too early and everyone hoped they somehow all created a second team or used magic to get their games ready this early. It was just unrealistic to happen. 2015 lines up a lot better, so I feel confident about that year already in terms of worthwhile announcements.

Yeah lol, it does sound a bit delusional, but i do think 2015 will be "the one".

After all this was a pretty great E3 for Nintendo and the WiiU, for example.

 

[Moosichu]

yeah, Uncharted 3. but i'll cut ND some slack for that since it was their B-Team.

That was a lighting issue in a pre-rendered cutscene. This is the same team that is making the current uncharted as well. There is no A and B team at Naughty Dog. Just one which had two years to make a game and one which had 3 and a half.

 

[WITHE1982]

I still can't really get my head around the whole "in engine" and "real-time" stuff. So basically what ND are saying is that a transition from this trailer to gameplay will be seamless (graphically)? Anyone care to elaborate, thanks.

I find that very hard to believe even from ND. I mean they're some of the most talented developers on the planet, not miracle workers.

Saying that if any studio can pull this off then I'm sure they can.

 

[Marvel]

Corrine Yu is working on it? No wonder

Indeed.

 

[TronLight]

We need naughty dog to push the boundaries of what is possible on console.

It will push other devs to polish and try a bit harder.

Hopefully ND and ICE will share their techniques and secrets and we all get better console game performance.

Those tweets from the ICE team a month or 2 ago about people being blown away seem to be coming true.

Roll on 2015

The ICE Team was created with the purpose of improving tools and techniques to the advantage of all the PS4 developers, so I think everyone will take advantage of this "boost".

 

[the_batman]

That was a lighting issue in a pre-rendered cutscene. This is the same team that is making the current uncharted as well. There is no A and B team at Naughty Dog. Just one which had two years to make a game and one which had 3 and a half.

no, it's not the same team, especially since Straley and Druckmann didn't work on U3.
and even if they don't refer to themselves as the A and B Team, it's clear who has the more talented personnel. it's the people who worked on U2 and TLOU.

 

[unempLLOYD]

Holy fucking shitballs. At this point, I would drag my balls across a pirhanna infested water just to see chloe's ass jiggle while she walks in real time @1080/60fps.

 

[Dictator93]

Then why are GPU requirements so much higher for this generation? A 7850 isn't anywhere near good enough to run console ports anymore.

That is completely untrue. A 7850, with the proper CPU and with a good clock on the GPU, will run console ports with flying colors. Esepcially at console settings (read medium/high @1080p or 900p).

 

[caleb1915]

no, it's not the same team, especially since Straley and Druckmann didn't work on U3.
and even if they don't refer to themselves as the A and B Team, it's clear who has the more talented personnel. it's the people who worked on U2 and TLOU.

Lol wtf Batman

 

[the_batman]

Holy fucking shitballs. At this point, I would drag my balls across a pirhanna infested water just to see chloe's ass jiggle while she walks in real time @1080/60fps.

lol. the real person, Claudia Black is better tho. I just hope they didn't fuck up Elena's face again.

 

[Canis lupus]

yeah, Uncharted 3. but i'll cut ND some slack for that since it was their B-Team.

So you are saying gameplay looks better than cutscenes in UC3:

But then you people also claim in-game never looks as good as cutscenes, because cutscenes are prerendered and not real-time, so is UC3 unable to pre-render 1 character in a simple bus scene...

LOL

 

[ICPEE]

The end before drake walked into the woods looked like it was transitioning to gameplay.

I noticed that and not just that.

I dont know if its just me but there are odd stutters in the video as the camera is panning out away from Drake's gorgeously modelled face. Its almost as if the detail is shifting to other objects around him or something as the camera continues to reveal more around him. Anybody get that.

That said this game is looking bonkers. I showed the video to my girlfriend last night and the first words from her mouth is "Who is that?"
She had no idea she was looking at a game. Thought it was some kind of TV Series trailer LOL

 

[Guess Who]

So you are saying gameplay looks better than cutscenes in UC3:

But then you people also claim in-game never looks as good as cutscenes, because cutscenes are prerendered and not real-time, so is UC3 unable to pre-render 1 character in a simple bus scene...

LOL

These are some major bullshots. UC3 IQ was not that good.

 

[the_batman]

LOL

First off, don't lump me in with other people because you have low reading comprehension. You're putting words in my mouth.

Second, lol at everyone posting that same damn screen of the tree. There are a lot of other parts of the game that look great. But not that first pic. Quit staring at Nate and look behind him, at the market.

These are some major bullshots. UC3 IQ was not that good.

those aren't bullshots.

 

[Betta Lines]

These are some major bullshots. UC3 IQ was not that good.

They are direct feed.

 

[camac002]

I still can't really get my head around the whole "in engine" and "real-time" stuff. So basically what ND are saying is that a transition from this trailer to gameplay will be seamless (graphically)? Anyone care to elaborate, thanks.

I find that very hard to believe even from ND. I mean they're some of the most talented developers on the planet, not miracle workers.

Saying that if any studio can pull this off then I'm sure they can.

Since they have said that they are going use real-time cutscenes instead of pre-recorded videos, one would expect there to be more seamless transitions between cutscene and gameplay (ie. no black screen transitions, The Order style) but that won't necessarily be true for artistic reasons perhaps.

As for maintaining the same detail, every game uses level of detail changes. I wouldn't want any game to waste resources rendering a 10,000 polygon face if that person is 500 metres away from my point. That's the other thing people are arguing about; how much detail will be the standard level once the gameplay starts.

 

[Omotesando]

These are some major bullshots. UC3 IQ was not that good.

You require a new television.

 

[stryke]

These are some major bullshots. UC3 IQ was not that good.

Here's Timu attempting to replicate the shot -

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=97622606&postcount=109

 

[Ethelwulf]

For people that know about hardware-engine interaction: How is that even possible that this is in-game? I bet a comparable PC would not be even close to run a game with such detail. Naughty Gods? or I've been missing graphical enhancements for a while?

 

[ICPEE]

Like I said in the other thread:
Nope. Don't believe it. My mind can't even comprehend playing something that looks like that. If it looks like that while playing I will shit in my hands and rub it on my scalp.

That will make you a shithead then right?

Spoiler

Lol, i kid, i kid

 

[Snake29]

Quantic Dream is currently prototyping for their sci-fi PS4 game. I think we will probably see them at E3 2015.

Or at gamescom.

 

[Canis lupus]

These are some major bullshots. UC3 IQ was not that good.

Play the game.

First off, don't lump me in with other people because you have low reading comprehension. You're putting words in my mouth.

Second, lol at everyone posting that same damn screen of the tree. There are a lot of other parts of the game that look great. But not that first pic. Quit staring at Nate and look behind him, at the market.

You're posting a pic that is supposed to show the graphical downgrade, from a pre-rendered non real time cutscene. I show you pics of the real-time parts of the game that look better than your pre-rendered pic. When it's argued that pre-rendered>gameplay always. And yes, we are also looking at the market, which looks much better than the background in your pic.

 

[valkyre]

Really? so you are telling me this is the in-game model of Ellie and Joel?

Because i took those out of a cut scene, No, I don't think so.

People, seriously don't set yourself up for a disappointment, as you can see from those pics I've put, the difference between In-game and cinematic in a ND game can be staggering, and i bet this is the case with UC4 as well, Don't eat this PR bullshit up.

While in LoU and Uncharted so far, there is a big difference between in game and cinematics, take a look at this:

This is 100% ingame

Sure there is difference but that is one amazing character model for ps3 hardware.

 

[camac002]

These are some major bullshots. UC3 IQ was not that good.

First instincts might say that, but you have to consider those images are in the native 720p and not being stretched up to a probably 1080p TV and 40 odd inches.

KZ3, GoW3 etc. are others that have incredible image quality when you see the straight up native screenshots that aren't being resized.

 

[camac002]

This is 100% ingame

Sure there is difference but that is one amazing character model for ps3 hardware.

Yep, that's definitely the main take away point. Even, If the minimum standard is going to be the same gap between gameplay and cutscene like they always have done, then that quality would still be amazing.

 

[dragonbane]

I still can't really get my head around the whole "in engine" and "real-time" stuff. So basically what ND are saying is that a transition from this trailer to gameplay will be seamless (graphically)? Anyone care to elaborate, thanks.

I find that very hard to believe even from ND. I mean they're some of the most talented developers on the planet, not miracle workers.

Saying that if any studio can pull this off then I'm sure they can.

Transitions might be seamless, but the actual game will probably look a bit worse since it has to include physics and AI. On the fly downgrade so to speak.

no, it's not the same team, especially since Straley and Druckmann didn't work on U3.
and even if they don't refer to themselves as the A and B Team, it's clear who has the more talented personnel. it's the people who worked on U2 and TLOU.

It's pretty much the same team except for some designers and scripters. There are like 40 people at ND who worked on TLoU and didn't touch Uncharted 3 for example. Not enough to form a separate team. They also interchange people all the time, UC2 wasn't completely the same team as TLoU for instance. The real difference is the amount of development time UC3 had vs. TLoU, not a lack in talent necessarily. TLoU with a year less development time would have been a broken mess as they themselves revealed.

So you are saying gameplay looks better than cutscenes in UC3:

But then you people also claim in-game never looks as good as cutscenes, because cutscenes are prerendered and not real-time, so is UC3 unable to pre-render 1 character in a simple bus scene...

LOL

The last shot is highly disingenuous as it only focusses on a single texture, which is streamed in HQ because you are aiming at it. The rest looks rather mediocre, hence the DoF to disguise it. Stop the aiming and suddenly the tree texture looks a lot worse as well.

 

[Philippo]

I know it's not a reliable source, but didn't Thuway said he heard of a gigantic performance boost for Ps4? Could it be linked to this?

 

[Phlebas]

These are some major bullshots. UC3 IQ was not that good.

Try harder.

Or better yet, play the game before you make stupid claims like that.

Not bullshots.

 

[Sid]

Have Naughty Dog games ever had a downgrade from reveal trailer till launch?

The Last of Us.

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

My take on all this is: It's CG.

Spoiler

Joakim, that is

 

[i-Lo]

While in LoU and Uncharted so far, there is a big difference between in game and cinematics, take a look at this:

This is 100% ingame

Sure there is difference but that is one amazing character model for ps3 hardware.

I even know where and when Joel is in this location; I thought I was the only one who actually took the time at that very moment to get the camera up close to Joel's model. It was staggering.

 

[Callibretto]

The last shot is highly disingenuous as it only focusses on a single texture, which is streamed in HQ because you are aiming at it. The rest looks rather mediocre, hence the DoF to disguise it. Stop the aiming and suddenly the tree texture looks a lot worse as well.

eh, isn't that the whole point of texture streaming, I think almost all AAA games nowadays use some kind of streaming tech. same with LoD, what games don't use those? the point is to use them in a good way that people don't notice them too much.

 

[Ottoni_Bastos]

yeah, Uncharted 3. but i'll cut ND some slack for that since it was their B-Team.

First: This is pre-rendered cutscene so downgrade it doesn't make any sense(because it's a video);

Second: What really happened here is that ND changed the light in that map/scenario(they put a yelow light/fog) which forced them to re-render that video with the new light(to match with the map's new look) which,in this SPECIFICALLY case,made the IQ of that video looks worse.

It's basically what happened with Infamous second son. Sucker Punch changed the time of day of some cutscenes(thus,changing the light) and people started to talk about downgrades.

If you look close you will see more details in the models actually.

 

[Betta Lines]

Try harder.

Or better yet, play the game before you make stupid claims like that.

Not bullshots.

It's an understandable mistake to make - this is how many will remember Uncharted 3's IQ:

(I simply enlarged the second screenshot to 1080 - that is pretty much how it looked on my monitor)

 

[valkyre]

I even know where and when Joel is in this location; I thought I was the only one who actually took the time at that very moment to get the camera up close to Joel's model. It was staggering.

Yep Apartment waiting with Ellie for Tes

 

[Callibretto]

It's an understandable mistake to make - this is how many will remember Uncharted 3's IQ:



(I simply enlarged the second screenshot to 1080 - that is pretty much how it looked on my monitor)

hmm, I think I may try play more of my pc games in windowed 720p now. lol

 

[dragonbane]

Or at gamescom.

Possible, but still too early I would say. I think they don't want to show a teaser, rather introduce it with a bang.

For people that know about hardware-engine interaction: How is that even possible that this is in-game? I bet a comparable PC would not be even close to run a game with such detail. Naughty Gods? or I've been missing graphical enhancements for a while?

It's a very limited scene in a limited environment with a controlled camera. So far this could be a tech demo for example. We'll have to wait till we get gameplay to see how it holds up when under stress by bigger environments, multiple characters, shooting, explosions, physics and AI.

 

[Metfanant]

On the fly downgrade so to speak.

God I hate this "downgrade" shit...hell..if you really want to get technical, if cutscenes DONT look better than gameplay then the devs are not pushing the hardware to its limits...

They SHOULD use the freed up resources from not having to calculate physics or AI in real time to push the visuals just a bit further than gameplay...

I can't wait till next year when someone counts the number of hairs on Drakes head and finds out that he is missing 5 strands of hair in the final build and starts screaming about Sony being liars and how the game was downgraded...

Or they start blowing up zoomed out gameplay pictures trying to prove a downgrade...

 

[dragonbane]

eh, isn't that the whole point of texture streaming, I think almost all AAA games nowadays use some kind of streaming tech. same with LoD, what games don't use those? the point is to use them in a good way that people don't notice them too much.

Of course, but it's like saying "hey look how amazing this single texture looks". It doesn't really prove anything about how the game stacks up to the pre-rendered cutscenes. The others shots at least try.

if cutscenes DONT look better than gameplay then the devs are not pushing the hardware to its limits...

They SHOULD use the freed up resources from not having to calculate physics or AI in real time to push the visuals just a bit further than gameplay...

Of course, I never said otherwise. If transitions are seamless I think the engine will automatically downgrade a few things when switching into gameplay or a combat scenario. Nothing more. I'm not talking about a WD downgrade here.