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[justsomeguy]

This is a lot of thread to sift through... have they confirmed that this is real-time? And not just rendered in-engine on a single PS4 one frame at a time and strung together into an FMV?

If ONLY there was a clue to this in the OP.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Why do Naughty Dog games always bring out the salt.

 

[Raven Prime]

I guess what I'm trying to say is the visual fidelity you see in the Uncharted trailer doesn't really come from the PS4 being a particularly powerful machine, it comes from ND being an extremely talented and well-resourced company.

That's just silly, it's obvious due to both. ND just excels at unlocking that power.

Well, nothing on PC is made specifically to achieve that. If Crytek would still work on PC exclusive games we probably would have seen something like that already.

Contrary to popular opinion, I believe that PC gaming in general is being held back not because of 'weaker' consoles, but rather because of weaker archaic 'low-mid tier' PCs.
Many people use the term PC as if it's somehow synonymous with the high end GPUs and CPUs that the enthusiasts have in their systems. In reality of course the average PC is a far cry from that.

Across multiple areas. It's simply a flaw in the streaming system that works if you are able to reach an area before the game is able to load it. Sometimes they use ladder puzzles to make you go slow and there is nothing you can do about it. During the exploration and combat sections you can simply spring through a lot of them and with good movement optimization you are so fast the game can't keep up. Normally it's supposed to force stop you with a message telling you "loading, please wait", but for some reason that check is not very well coded and doesn't come up a lot of the times. This will likely never happen if you play the game normally though, so it seems like they just didn't test it thoroughly.

Well that's a shame though. Luckily I've never encountered that issue with my playthroughs.

 

[dragonbane]

This is a lot of thread to sift through... have they confirmed that this is real-time? And not just rendered in-engine on a single PS4 one frame at a time and strung together into an FMV?

The word real time wasn't used yet by a reputable source or officially by a ND employee. We heard in-engine, in-game, not CG, captured from a single PS4 and it's part of an actual level. Some sites apparently heard from ND employees that it is real time. We will see.

 

[ICPEE]

Originally Posted by Parhelion69

Several people have replied, and as said, it's assembly coding, a closed hardware, so it can be much better optimized, Windows has OS and Direct X overhead, and PC gets the "brute force" approach.

BUT, there's more. The magic is in it's compute units (ACE), also known as GPGPU :

http://www.redgamingtech.com/playsta...-similarities/



All AMD GPUs from 7850 to 7970, only have 2 compute units, while the PS4 has 8.

Also:


Furthermore, the PS4 compute queue size has been increased to 8 per ACE, so 64 total, compared to the paltry 4 the 7850 - 7970 have.

AMD has improved their GCN architecture and done the same with the 290x:

http://gearnuke.com/amd-flagship-r9-...es-as-the-ps4/

Quote from that article:



Infamous SS used compute extensively for their incredible graphical effects (And who knows what else), so it's highly probable that Uncharted, The Order, Driveclub, etc. Are doing the same. It's certainly the PS4's "secret sauce", and helps tremendously in specific graphical effects.

As for the PC side, I doubt developers use these compute units extensively for games (if at all), as few GPUs have them, and only the 290x has as many as the PS4. And Nvidia is even weaker on the compute department (but they are improving that on their next architecture). As that article said, only Crytek uses ACEs for weather systems.

And as a side note, the Xbox one has only 2 ACEs, but they do have 8 queues per unit, making a total of 16 compute commands, an improvement from PC, but far from the PS4's 64.


Computing units, are another pillar in the PS4 computational power, that allows this kind of visuals.

Team ICE said they are improving the ACEs performance (GPGPU), and that is going to increase the delta with the X1... It's only gonna get better...

Very good write up, the 64 compute jobs of the PS4 will result in incredible visual effects over time. I remember reading something about Killzone SF not relying too much on gpgpu and only using a few compute jobs. inFamous used it for the lovely particle effects. Cerny was a visionary to bank so heavily on compute, he said that while PS4 is easy to code for, it's custom gpgpu capabilities will be gradually taken advantage of and that we should expect gen 2 and 3 games to look better and better. It's the best of both worlds: easy to code for and yet still have enough ACE's up its sleeve.

Thank you guys. I love tech talk even though some of it goes way over my head though i must add this is the reason i joined Gaf. Very interesting discussions.

 

[Krisprolls]

Why do Naughty Dog games always bring out the salt.

You already know the answers to this question.

 

[cheezcake]

That's just silly, it's obvious due to both. ND just excels at unlocking that power.

Well power is a relative term, if you're talking relative to high end GPU's then no the PS4 is not particularly powerful.

 

[Z3M0G]

If ONLY there was a clue to this in the OP.

Ok I re-read the OP and see a lot of 2nd/3rd hand claims. Nothing directly from ND yet though.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

I kinda missed this no-BS tech talk. The PS4 is really well done.

 

[3JORN]

Ok I re-read the OP and see a lot of 2nd/3rd hand claims. Nothing directly from ND yet though.

Read again.

 

[Omotesando]

Ryse?

GTFO.

 

[dragonbane]

Contrary to popular opinion, I believe that PC gaming in general is being held back not because of 'weaker' consoles, but rather because of weaker archaic 'low-mid tier' PCs.
Many people use the term PC as if it's somehow synonymous with the high end GPUs and CPUs that the enthusiasts have in their systems. In reality of course the average PC is a far cry from that.

Looking at minimum system requirements of some current gen games I doubt that's the case. Most devs don't seem to give a shit about the low end.

Read again.

He is probably looking for the word real time which Corrine has chosen not to use across multiple tweets asking her specifically including "is it real time?".

 

[santi_yo]

Ok I re-read the OP and see a lot of 2nd/3rd hand claims. Nothing directly from ND yet though.

Corrinne Yu is ND.

 

[Raven Prime]

Well power is a relative term, if you're talking relative to high end GPU's then no the PS4 is not particularly powerful.

Of course it is relative. Seeing how the PS4 is a very specific configuration, I think it doesn't make that much sense to continuously compare it with off the shelf PC components.

 

[Audible Phonetics]

Wait until dx-12 tools begin to be implemented on the One, all games will look like this, not just one game from a studio milking a tired franchise.



/s

 

[Z3M0G]

Read again.

Corrinne Yu is ND.

That's what I mean, she didn't say it yet.

 

[RoboPlato]

Ok I re-read the OP and see a lot of 2nd/3rd hand claims. Nothing directly from ND yet though.

There are three separate people from ND who work on engine and effects programming that are sourced in the OP.

 

[rashbeep]

As I said earlier in the thread, and find it funny people are still surprised or arguing...I thought it was real time the second I saw it.

It does not look like CGI. (just as the lady close to it said)

It looks like perfectly possible, high detail, closed area graphics. Some developers are incredibly good at this. I honestly think those that have played a game like Ryse probably aren't surprised at all. I question how many people commenting have even played Infamous:SS and Ryse on a huge big-screen in their entertainment center. If so, this isn't a leap to think Naughty Dog can do what we see.

My initial reaction was "That looks good...looks real time too, wouldn't surprise me if it is."

Studios with great art/graphic talent can do stuff like this. There aren't many (ND/Epic/Crytek/etc.), but there are a few that can make people wonder how they do it. They're just incredibly talented when it comes to creating what they can with the hardware they are given.

I kinda agree with this, but the U4 demo looks much, much better than either of those games. What confuses me is that there aren't more people speculating/going nuts about the Battlefront reveal. That looked more impressive to me and was also "in-engine".

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I would love to have the entire ICE team on camera together for a half hour interview. These people should get some rockstar level love from the fans. Their work is simply incredible. They deserve more recognition.

 

[dragonbane]

There are three separate people from ND who work on engine and effects programming that are sourced in the OP.

The only problem is neither Beyond3D, Gamingbolt or an Ubisoft employee having a buddy at ND are known to be reputable sources. For Beyond3D and Gamingbolt quite the opposite actually. Those sourced ND employees should go on twitter to directly confirm it using their own words. Or let ND as a whole send a statement to Digital Foundry. Or make Corinne finally use the word real time.

 

[Raven Prime]

Looking at minimum system requirements of some current gen games I doubt that's the case. Most devs don't seem to give a shit about the low end.

I'm not sure. The games probably won't look too hot with those minimum requirements either. Anyway let's not derail this thread too much with speculation of this kind.

 

[UrbanRats]

The word real time wasn't used yet by a reputable source or officially by a ND employee. We heard in-engine, in-game, not CG, captured from a single PS4 and it's part of an actual level. Some sites apparently heard from ND employees that it is real time. We will see.

In the age of twitter, we should be able to get a straight answer.

 

[-Amon-]

Great news for ps4 owners i guess

 

[Jburton]

Why do Naughty Dog games always bring out the salt.

Jealousy, simple.

 

[imtehman]

I'm not contesting that Ryse doesn't look good I think Ryse looks amazing. I am contesting that what were seeing in UC4 is a natural progression from Ryse and Infamous. It is a pretty significant leap to me.

Batman, Witcher, Assassins Creed. Those all look like natural progression. This just came out of nowhere.

i dont get how you look at teh screenshots you posted and come to the conclusion that uc4 is a significant leap? ffs, that shot of marius in the jungle looks better than UC4 jungle shot

 

[goonergaz]

Having sped run the game for kicks I have never seen this happen, might be a dying PS3.

or HDD

 

[Damaniel]

If this trailer was from any other studio, I'd be calling bullshit. But we're talking Naughty Dog - they don't have a track record of overpromising and underdelivering (if anything, they tend to overdeliver). If they say this is real-time, in-game footage, then I believe them.

 

[i-Lo]

i dont get how you look at teh screenshots you posted and come to the conclusion that uc4 is a significant leap? ffs, that shot of marius in the jungle looks better than UC4 jungle shot

Some things never change...

 

[RoboPlato]

The only problem is neither Beyond3D, Gamingbolt or an Ubisoft employee having a buddy at ND are known to be reputable sources. For Beyond3D and Gamingbolt quite the opposite actually. Those sourced ND employees should go on twitter to directly confirm it using their own words. Or let ND as a whole send a statement to Digital Foundry. Or make Corinne finally use the word real time.

Corrine Yu said in game. You can't get more definitive than that. Something can be real time but not in game but in game is always real time.

 

[En-ou]

possible. it's a small section with one character...not much going on.

 

[cheezcake]

Of course it is relative. Seeing how the PS4 is a very specific configuration, I think it doesn't make that much sense to continuously compare it with off the shelf PC components.

The PS4 GPU is GCN AMD architecture with buffed GPGPU capability, in terms of specs its basically a 7870 with 2 CU's disabled to increase manufacturing yield. And of course the aforementioned buffed GPGPU features, like more ACE's and the addition of buses which bypass GPU cache memory. But its not very outlandish at all to compare it with off the shelf PC components, they're based on the same fundamental architecture.

 

[Audible Phonetics]

possible. it's a small section with one character...not much going on.

They said its an actual level. So this wasn't just a tech demo of the Uncharted Engine.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Naughty Dog isn't playing fair, bad Dog!

Now I would like to see what Quantic Dream's game will look like, especially if their Sorcery thing was a rush job with PS3 code.

 

[Kaako]

i dont get how you look at teh screenshots you posted and come to the conclusion that uc4 is a significant leap? ffs, that shot of marius in the jungle looks better than UC4 jungle shot

Ahaha tell us how you really feel, playboi.

 

[Chinner]

with Xbox one and PS4 being released, PC gamers have grown comfortable with the idea that they are underpowered and that they will not display graphics that are impressive by their standards. cross-generation games, multiplatform games and dev costs spiraling out of control keeps development ambition down, and PC gamers get cocky . Crysis 3 is cited as the best game ever as it has the first ever realistic looking penis, Pyscho


Uncharted 4 is shown.

PC gamers get angry that there $2000 PCs are shredded like a block of cheese by a machine that costs four times as less.

 

[imtehman]

Some things never change...

But feel free to add me on PSN im playing lots of war thunder on my ps4 psn = imtehman

 

[Deleted member 80556]

i dont get how you look at teh screenshots you posted and come to the conclusion that uc4 is a significant leap? ffs, that shot of marius in the jungle looks better than UC4 jungle shot

Hmmm...

with Xbox one and PS4 being released, PC gamers have grown comfortable with the idea that they are underpowered and that they will not display graphics that are impressive by their standards. cross-generation games, multiplatform games and dev costs spiraling out of control keeps development ambition down, and PC gamers get cocky . Crysis 3 is cited as the best game ever as it has the first ever realistic looking penis, Pyscho


Uncharted 4 is shown.

PC gamers get angry that there $2000 PCs are shredded like a block of cheese by a machine that costs four times as less.

I can feel FACE's frustration from here.

 

[Chamber]

i dont get how you look at teh screenshots you posted and come to the conclusion that uc4 is a significant leap? ffs, that shot of marius in the jungle looks better than UC4 jungle shot

This Ryse shit needs to stop. You fanboys really needed something to hold onto. We get it. But stop. Ryse was not the second coming of videogame jesus in any way. The game is fundamentally not that amazing at all. Period.

If I am hearing about Ryse in 6 more months you can officially cancel the Xbox.

.

 

[dragonbane]

In the age of twitter, we should be able to get a straight answer.

We should. I'm pretty sure it's real time at this point, but it's just annoying how someone asks Corinne

"Could you shed some light on this whole "It's real-time!" "No its prerendered!" thing?"

And instead of referring to the question and just saying "It's real time. Thank you" she replies using the entire character limit of twitter:

"Our U4 trailer is an in engine real game level running on a real PS4,Paolur trailer doesn't look good enough to be prerender CGI"

I'm not sure why this needs to be so complicated. As a programmer, if this is real time, I would be so proud to immediately shout it from the rooftops. Because everyone knows what this word means and there is zero room for any kind of debate.
I can only imagine that they maybe enjoy the speculation. More attention I guess.

 

[anexanhume]

Corrine Yu said in game. You can't get more definitive than that. Something can be real time but not in game but in game is always real time.

Yup, and she also specifically said it was created on the PS4 and is not pre-rendered CGI. Real-time is implied necessarily by all of those statements.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

I'm gonna call this a Half Life situation, where a new rumor (in this case it's been essentially confirmed) arises and the devs probably get a kick out of internet forum discussion.

EDIT: Also, she doesn't simply say real-time, she wants to be specific so people don't really get different interpretations of what she says. Real time on how many PS4's? In-game or just in-engine?

 

[Raven Prime]

The PS4 GPU is GCN AMD architecture with buffed GPGPU capability, in terms of specs its basically a 7870 with 2 CU's disabled to increase manufacturing yield. And of course the aforementioned buffed GPGPU features, like more ACE's and the addition of buses which bypass GPU cache memory. But its not very outlandish at all to compare it with off the shelf PC components, they're based on the same fundamental architecture.

Not outlandish perhaps, that much is true. But still the modifications make it an unique GPU, that coupled with the different requirements of a console vs. that of a gaming PC, make these comparisons misleading in several ways.

 

[Callibretto]

with Xbox one and PS4 being released, PC gamers have grown comfortable with the idea that they are underpowered and that they will not display graphics that are impressive by their standards. cross-generation games, multiplatform games and dev costs spiraling out of control keeps development ambition down, and PC gamers get cocky . Crysis 3 is cited as the best game ever as it has the first ever realistic looking penis, Pyscho


Uncharted 4 is shown.

PC gamers get angry that there $2000 PCs are shredded like a block of cheese by a machine that costs four times as less.

hey, if ND make game for PC, it would look even better. ND should not be hold back by the measly power of console. look at SOE making pc games, we should ask Sony to let ND make games for PC master race. if they are really "for the gamers" then they should give us options whether to play ND games on PC or PS4 ;D

 

[imtehman]

Some things never change...

"significant leap"

give me a break.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

^
Youtube compression strikes again. Posted twice for impact.

with Xbox one and PS4 being released, PC gamers have grown comfortable with the idea that they are underpowered and that they will not display graphics that are impressive by their standards. cross-generation games, multiplatform games and dev costs spiraling out of control keeps development ambition down, and PC gamers get cocky . Crysis 3 is cited as the best game ever as it has the first ever realistic looking penis, Pyscho


Uncharted 4 is shown.

PC gamers get angry that there $2000 PCs are shredded like a block of cheese by a machine that costs four times as less.

When games are made for specific hardware amazing things can happen. PS3 is pretty bad hardware compared to last years average gaming PC but they made a beautiful game with The Last of Us. PC sometimes get developers that pour a ton of time in crafting detailed stuff but not at the rate that consoles seem to get. I remember people wishing TLOU was on PC (just to see how it would look, not begging for it).

 

[shandy706]

lol @ the Ryse comparisons. Shit's on another level.

Infamous SS was this gen's Gears of War in terms of visual breakthrough. But if Naughty Dog can translate this visual fidelity into the game... OMG.

This Ryse shit needs to stop. You fanboys really needed something to hold onto. We get it. But stop. Ryse was not the second coming of videogame jesus in any way. The game is fundamentally not that amazing at all. Period.

If I am hearing about Ryse in 6 more months you can officially cancel the Xbox.

Ryse?

GTFO.

You know, it's incredibly easy to spot the people that simply don't get the conversation. The knee jerk reaction people. The ones that instantly assume something, and mouth off about it.

Yelling fanboys is also a good clue.

Not a single person I quoted lists both a PSN and GT for me to play with them. They also don't seem to have understood a single thing about the conversations they are alluding to with their comments.

Read those conversations to the end..maybe you'll understand the point of them.

Or maybe not...that has to be rough, always on the offensive and strapping on the armor for battle (heh...pun not intended).

 

[dragonbane]

Corrine Yu said in game. You can't get more definitive than that. Something can be real time but not in game but in game is always real time.

Unfortunately I've heard devs use in-game before to describe "yes this is in the game" and not "this is rendered in real time". The former meaning this content (e.g. a pre-rendered cutscene) will be in the actual game unchanged. Look, I believe this is real time as well, I just don't understand why she doesn't use the term everyone else uses if it is real time and instead gives long replies using all the other words. It's just frustrating to me, when other devs like QD just include a text up front saying "BTW THIS IS REAL TIME ON A PS4".

 

[velociraptor]

"significant leap"

give me a break.

Well considering one is running at 900p30 and one at 1080p60, I'd say that's an incredible achievement.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

The PS4 GPU is GCN AMD architecture with buffed GPGPU capability, in terms of specs its basically a 7870 with 2 CU's disabled to increase manufacturing yield. And of course the aforementioned buffed GPGPU features, like more ACE's and the addition of buses which bypass GPU cache memory. But its not very outlandish at all to compare it with off the shelf PC components, they're based on the same fundamental architecture.

I see this all the time, and it still cracks me up.

"It is basically this PC part"
"apart from this, and this, and this, and this..."

 

[Primethius]

Haven't had the chance to read through the entire thread. Why is a 900p/30fps game being compared to a 1080p/60fps game to show that there is no leap? Doesn't that do the opposite and show that there is a big leap?