Star Wars VII doesn't respect the original trilogy (spoilers)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Durden77

Member
I believe there were scenes cut out of the movie that show Leia's determination to do something about TFO and the Republic's inaction on that point.

They probably gave a lot more context to TFO, the Republic and to Leia, and I think we are worse off without them.

I believe they were cut to improve the flow of the movie, but the lack of context for so much in the movie is exactly what contributed to my overall dissatisfaction with it....

It's a shame because a scene as simple as that could've made all the difference between making The First Order seem like a real type of growing threat, to what they are in TFA which are just the bad guys. I can imagine them wanting to cut it to save Leia's reveal too, but it's not worth.

I enjoyed the hell out of this movie, but with just a few more probably less than a minute scenes in certain spots, it could've been much better. Like what they did to Phasma. Jesus give her a 20 second scene to where she fights and tries to resist the Rebels before finally giving in and having to deactivate the shields. Just little things like that.
 

sphagnum

Banned
The Leia/Korr Sella stuff would've been great but the more I think about it, the more I think JJ made the correct choice in cutting it. Had that been left in, the movie would have suddenly shifted away from the thrust of the plot - following Rey and Finn - and Leia would have come out of nowhere. It would have been jarring. Her introduction is perfect as it is.

They should've found some other way to fit this stuff in, whether with dialogue from Maz or an expanded speech by Hux, or even just Leia talking about it later. Especially after Hosnian Prime was destroyed.
 

Alucard

Banned
Luke mentally fucked up his NEPHEW. HIS SISTER'S SON. Like, if my nephew stayed with me for a summer, and I was like, "Hey, let me teach you about the force," and then he ended up becoming a lunatic murderer, I probably wouldn't want to face my sister again either, and feel super shitty to boot.
 
Luke mentally fucked up his NEPHEW. HIS SISTER'S SON. Like, if my nephew stayed with me for a summer, and I was like, "Hey, let me teach you about the force," and then he ended up becoming a lunatic murderer, I probably wouldn't want to face my sister again either, and feel super shitty to boot.

Nah, he was already turning to the dark side, which is why Leia sent him to Luke to try to save him.
 
Luke mentally fucked up his NEPHEW. HIS SISTER'S SON. Like, if my nephew stayed with me for a summer, and I was like, "Hey, let me teach you about the force," and then he ended up becoming a lunatic murderer, I probably wouldn't want to face my sister again either, and feel super shitty to boot.

To be fair, Luke probably wanted to train him at a much earlier age, but Leia and Han are stubborn as shit.

In my head, they didn't send Ben to train until something happened to force them too.
 

enigmatic_alex44

Whenever a game uses "middleware," I expect mediocrity. Just see how poor TLOU looks.
Nah, he was already turning to the dark side, which is why Leia sent him to Luke to try to save him.

That's gonna be some MAJOR BS if they try to redeem Kylo Ren in VIII or IX.

I can't believe that Leia would ever forgive her son for killing her true love Han Solo.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Op let me tell you why you are wrong.

We do not have the full picture yet. Plese come back after ep IX.
This is such a weird thing to say. The fact that a film is part of a trilogy doesn't excuse weak/weird characterization in that film. Nobody saw Batman Begins and was like "sure, Rachel Dawes was a kinda weak character but you can't complain because she's in the sequel!"
 

danm999

Member
This is such a weird thing to say. The fact that a film is part of a trilogy doesn't excuse weak/weird characterization in that film. Nobody saw Batman Begins and was like "sure, Rachel Dawes was a kinda weak character but you can't complain because she's in the sequel!"

The complaint isn't bad characterisation though, or that Luke and Leia are weak characters.

The complaint is that principal characters like Luke and Leia are in regressive positions compared to their status at the end of the OT.

So making the point that they'll likely find some measure of redemption in the remaining two movies isn't a bad one. In fact you can almost bet Episode VIII will in large part deal with Luke's attempt to set things right.

To put it another way; at the beginning of a trilogy of movies you don't expect your principal characters to already have won because what the fuck else do you do for three movies then.
 
----------

Luke Skywalker:
By the end of Return of the Jedi, Luke has redeemed his father. He's completed his training and has become the last Jedi Knight. He must pass on what he has learned and he must restore all that has been lost at the hands of the evil Empire. We're left to imagine a future in which Luke builds a new Jedi Order and restores peace and justice to the galaxy.

In The Force Awakens, we learn that Luke has failed to continue this legacy. The Empire has returned in the form of 'The First Order' and is now continuing their campaign of destruction and terror. In response to this, Luke has "vanished".

He's given up on the Jedi after Kylo Ren's turn to the Dark Side. Perhaps he believes that the Jedi are simply not worth the trouble? So, Luke isolates himself from the rest of the galaxy. In doing this, the Jedi would also fade away from existence.

Is this really the Luke Skywalker we remember? Would Obi-Wan Kenobi or Yoda condone Luke's actions? I would hope not.

In other words: "Fuck it all", said Luke Skywalker.

Han Solo:
Galactic criminal turned General. A legend in every sense of the word. Must I really go on about this beloved character?

Fast forward to The Force Awakens, and Han has taken ten steps backward. He goes back to doing what he's "good at". He has undone all of his development from the original films and returns to a world of scum and villainy because his son succumbed to the Dark Side. Rather than pursue his son, he instead pursues his coveted ship, the Millennium Falcon, along with his drinking pal, Chewbacca.

In other words: "Fuck it all", said Han Solo.

Leia Organa:
Leia has been fighting the same war for thirty years and has failed to stop the Empire from re-emerging into a position of ridiculous, unparalleled power. In fact, they may be more powerful than ever, given that their new Death Star -cough- Starkiller Base can destroy a whole bunch of planets at once with the power of the sun! How did a crumbling Empire acquire the resources for such a project without being noticed? How could Leia fail to address the issue of Starkiller Base before its completion? Is it merely incompetence on her part as a leader?

The galaxy is now in greater danger than ever before. What has Leia been doing for the past three decades? What was the point of the whole war? Were Luke, Han, and Leia to weak to stop the Empire?

In other words: "Pass the blow", said Princess Leia.

The Force:
The Force is nothing more than a superpower, according to The Force Awakens. It is now something that can be learned without the rigid discipline of Yoda or Obi-Wan. Now, if you believe hard enough, you can do anything with the Force!

Examples: Rey using Jedi mind tricks on a stormtrooper. Rey 'resisting' Kylo Ren. Rey going as far as to Force-pull a lightsaber into her grasp.

Luke's Lightsaber:
This is the most idiotic attempt by the film to 'respect' the original trilogy. In all of Star Wars' cinematic history, lightsabers were mere tools to a Jedi. An elegant weapon and nothing more. But now, lightsabers are mystical entities. They can "call to you", not unlike how the One Ring calls to Frodo in 'The Lord of the Rings'.

During the film's closing, Rey even goes as far as to 'return' the weapon to its owner, Luke. For reasons that I cannot comprehend, this scene has a ceremonial undertone, when the reality is that Luke never saw the weapon as anything more than, well, a weapon.

But, in favor of pleasing the fans with nostalgic imagery, the film defies all previously established logic and paints the weapon as something sacred.

So much so, that this is the ending shot of the film.

In a way, I believe this closing scene is symbolic of what the film ultimately is. It's a big, $200 million dollar misunderstanding of its source material. The film expects its audience to be too caught up in the fact that it's Luke's first lightsaber to realize just how absurd the whole scenario is. You see, to the majority of the audience, the lightsaber very much has become a sacred sort of object. And now, the audience's mindset is bleeding into the film itself.

- First, Luke did continue on his legacy by starting a new Jedi order. That order was wiped out by one of Luke's students, Ben Solo/Kylo Ren. Luke retreated, but we don't know exactly what he is preparing to do, only that he is supposed to be looking for the first jedi temple. It's premature to think that Luke has failed in the big picture without seeing what happens in the next two films.

Also, as far as Yoda and Obi-wan Kenobi, both of them went into hiding so not sure where you are going with them condoning Luke's actions.

- Han was always a flawed character, even as Hero of the Rebel Alliance. It's not a stretch to say that his life could possibly turn to shit and he retreats into his old lifestyle.

- How can Leia alone be personally responsible for ensuring that the Empire never resurfaces? She is but one person. Granted, the state of the galaxy needs to be fleshed out a little more, but for all we know, the remnants of the old empire could have been gathering its resources in secret. We don't know, but this is a premature criticism. As for the point of the war in the OT, it sounds as though you felt we were due a happy ending. Even in our own world, we've experienced period of peace and war. Why would it be any different in the Star Wars universe. The OT was about a specific period of time,and ROTJ resolved the conflict at that time. The Force awakens is 30 years later, alot of shit can happen in that timeframe and clearly has.

- The Force, when it comes down to it, does manifest itself as a series of 'powers'. Whatever definitions we've been given before, midiclorians, Ben and Yoda's OT descriptions, that's what it boils down to. Those in-tune with the force can call to it with different levels of ability, learning aptitudes, and so forth. Ever had someone in your class back in the day who just seemed naturally gifted and never had to study, while you had to bust your ass just to get a passing grade? Same thing here. Quite clearly Ren is a force prodigy based off what we've seen. OR, maybe we get some Jason Bourne style plot where we learn that Rey was previously trained, and the force 'awakening' in her brings that training back to the surface. We don't know, that's why we have two more mainline episodes and a bunch of side-story movies coming out.

- Luke's saber at this point is sacred. In fact, it was sacred when Ben Kenobi gave it to Luke in ANH. It was a product of a past age. And throughout the OT, everytime the saber was pulled out it was special. In the PT, the Jedi were in their prime so we saw it used by hundreds of Jedi often, taking some of the mystique out of it.
 
It needs to be restated just how great a point it is that without knowing that Jedis can manipulate with their minds, Luke did it. And how funny it is that people were making about as strong of arguments to explain why he was able to do it/knew how to do it as the arguments for why she just "knew" how to Jedi mind trick the Stormtrooper.
 

Jindrax

Member
Op I agree with you 100%.
I have no idea how anyone likes this movie how it's reviewing so well.
The entire movie is a disneyfied version of ep4. Everyone behaves like a freaking cartoon character.
That BB robot behaves like a dog... and they seem to care about it like it's a living thing.
Also all these posts about hurr duur the force was OP in all other movies too.
No it wasn't. Have you even watched them? It hardly get's used and when it does it's not stopping a blaster shot in mid air without even looking it at.
The ones using it are trained

and everyone saying, look did this, and look did that.
TFA is over a few days at most. Between the OT there's YEARS.
 
Was this in one of the new books or comics?

It refers to when Luke pulled his lightsaber towards him to save himself from the Wompa in Empire. Luke never had the opportunity to learn how to do that.

Op I agree with you 100%.
I have no idea how anyone likes this movie how it's reviewing so well.
The entire movie is a disneyfied version of ep4. Everyone behaves like a freaking cartoon character.
That BB robot behaves like a dog... and they seem to care about it like it's a living thing.
Also all these posts about hurr duur the force was OP in all other movies too.
No it wasn't. Have you even watched them? It hardly get's used and when it does it's not stopping a blaster shot in mid air without even looking it at.
The ones using it are trained

and everyone saying, look did this, and look did that.
TFA is over a few days at most. Between the OT there's YEARS.

So how exactly did Luke save himself from the Wompa? Sounds like the only explanation is "oh, he just knew y'know" or "Obi-Wan must have trained him off-screen"
 
Nothing better than celebrating one of the most influential and novel franchises of its time by, uh... making the same movie.
"We've had decades to think about where the story goes and here it is!"

Totally underwhelming and the Marvel humor and editing shtick just totally wrecked this for me, but I wasn't the biggest fans of the OT anyways, the universe was always more interesting to me than the films or Skywalkers... Which is probably why this hurt even more in my eyes.

Basically I'll continue not buying Star Wars films, which has been status quo since what, the nineties? Good OP though, I felt it was a shitty follow up as well. Bring on the unrelated anthology films!
 
Didn't Obi Wan and Yoda hide out pretty much the same as Luke?

Yoda just seemed to go into seclusion and resigned to let things unfold. Obi-wan was keeping an eye on Luke from afar until he came of age, but yes end of the day basically what they did wasn't too dissimilar from what Luke is doing.
 

Kin5290

Member
This article does a really great job of explaining why I don't think TFA disrespected the characters of the OT at all. Luke, Leia, and Han won 30 years of relative peace, which is not nothing, But the only reason why they had a happy ending was that their story ended there.

Things are actually worse for them in the old EU.
 

Jindrax

Member
It refers to when Luke pulled his lightsaber towards him to save himself from the Wompa in Empire. Luke never had the opportunity to learn how to do that.



So how exactly did Luke save himself from the Wompa? Sounds like the only explanation is "oh, he just knew y'know" or "Obi-Wan must have trained him off-screen"

Let's just ignore the rest of my post but ok.
And how about we compare Luke force pulling a light sabre and swinging his sabre. To Rey being as proficient or better with the force that Kylo Ren who's been trained by Luke himself.
Good Job
 

munchie64

Member
Let's just ignore the rest of my post but ok.
And how about we compare Luke force pulling a light sabre and swinging his sabre. To Rey being as proficient or better with the force that Kylo Ren who's been trained by Luke himself.
Good Job
Rey's strong with the force. What's wrong with that?
 

Alx

Member
I mostly agree about the saber thing. Nobody seemed to care that much about those. Obiwan giving Luke his father's saber was symbolic, but that's it. Lost it in a fight ? Well I guess I'll need to build a new one.
Vader didn't go after it although it was his, nobody went after Obiwan's once he dies, ...

That being said, they don't seem that important in Ep7 either. Ren wants it for his own collectin, but it's not his major target (the map to find Luke is), and Rey handing it to Luke is another symbolic gesture.
 

Wensih

Member
you put more thought into this post than JJ did into rebadging the empire and calling it a day.

a dumbed down/sci-fi'd up post WW1 political landscape, with the first order filling the role of the fledgling 1920s nazi party in a economically ruined galaxy experiencing disillusion due to a power vacuum, would have been a great platform to world build on. they did fuck all of this in the film, and nobody should give them a pass because some glorified EU author expanded on their lazy scraps.

My understanding is that most of Star Wars is filled in with other content. The original trilogy didn't have much context for anything as well.
 
Let's just ignore the rest of my post but ok.
And how about we compare Luke force pulling a light sabre and swinging his sabre. To Rey being as proficient or better with the force that Kylo Ren who's been trained by Luke himself.
Good Job

You talk about ignoring your post and then you literally said "well how about we answer a question with a question."

People have been making a point of trying to find every little thing that can make Rey a Mary Sue. That this is your best response tells me that Luke is too.

Luke beating the greatest star-pilot in the galaxy? No problem. Luke doing something he had no way of knowing exists? Everyone is fine with that. Rey - a character who pretty much everyone is guessing was a disciple of Luke's - beating Kylo Ren? Ugh what a Mary Sue!

Yes, if we ignore that:

1. Kylo Ren was wounded by a blaster that is so powerful it can send people flying several feet
2. Kylo Ren was wounded again by Finn
3. Kylo Ren was visibly in serious pain, bleeding profusely, and needing to slam his fist into his wound just to focus himself
4. Kylo Ren was angry and unfocused
5. Kylo Ren was trying to capture Rey, not kill her
6. Kylo Ren himself was basically just a Sith Padawan
7. Rey is fighting for survival

then it seems like she is indeed a Mary Sue. But if we don't ignore it, we see that Kylo Ren has an assload of drawbacks in this fight. Is Luke a Mary Sue because he was able to wound Vader in Empire? No, what happened was that Vader was trying to not kill Luke, thus he wasn't fighting at full strength. Meanwhile, Luke became more powerful than Vader despite only receiving relatively minimal training from Obi-Wan and Yoda. Does this fact make him a Mary Sue?
 

Wensih

Member
You talk about ignoring your post and then you literally said "well how about we answer a question with a question."

People have been making a point of trying to find every little thing that can make Rey a Mary Sue. That this is your best response tells me that Luke is too.

Luke beating the greatest star-pilot in the galaxy? No problem. Luke doing something he had no way of knowing exists? Everyone is fine with that. Rey - a character who pretty much everyone is guessing was a disciple of Luke's - beating Kylo Ren? Ugh what a Mary Sue!

Yes, if we ignore that:

1. Kylo Ren was wounded by a blaster that is so powerful it can send people flying several feet
2. Kylo Ren was wounded again by Finn
3. Kylo Ren was visibly in serious pain, bleeding profusely, and needing to slam his fist into his wound just to focus himself
4. Kylo Ren was angry and unfocused
5. Kylo Ren was trying to capture Rey, not kill her
6. Kylo Ren himself was basically just a Sith Padawan
7. Rey is fighting for survival

then it seems like she is indeed a Mary Sue. But if we don't ignore it, we see that Kylo Ren has an assload of drawbacks in this fight. Is Luke a Mary Sue because he was able to wound Vader in Empire? No, what happened was that Vader was trying to not kill Luke, thus he wasn't fighting at full strength. Meanwhile, Luke became more powerful than Vader despite only receiving relatively minimal training from Obi-Wan and Yoda. Does this fact make him a Mary Sue?

This is what I never got in the original trilogy. How did Vader get bested by a kid who was lifting rocks in a swamp?

Kylo Ren, like you said, is a padawan, so a padawan facing another padawan makes much more sense than a padawan facing an experienced Sith Lord.
 
All he really got was this:
hqdefault.jpg


Which was really the bare minimum needed. Luke had to teach himself pretty much everything other than jumping and levitation.

Like, Rey being good with a lightsaber makes sense with the staff fighting. Luke? He had to spend some years just winging it.

Did you forget when Luke when from struggling to do anything Yoda said to running around a swamp doing flips and shit?
 

Wensih

Member
The complaint isn't bad characterisation though, or that Luke and Leia are weak characters.

The complaint is that principal characters like Luke and Leia are in regressive positions compared to their status at the end of the OT.

So making the point that they'll likely find some measure of redemption in the remaining two movies isn't a bad one. In fact you can almost bet Episode VIII will in large part deal with Luke's attempt to set things right.

To put it another way; at the beginning of a trilogy of movies you don't expect your principal characters to already have won because what the fuck else do you do for three movies then.

These new movies are for new characters, a new generation. The old characters are going to remain out of focus. Luke will be a Yoda or Obi Wan figure and play a role, but he's not going to be the driving force, Rey, Finn, and Poe will.
 

Toxi

Banned
It refers to when Luke pulled his lightsaber towards him to save himself from the Wompa in Empire. Luke never had the opportunity to learn how to do that.
Oh whoops. Thought you meant manipulating minds, not manipulating with the mind.

But yeah, I think that's a good counterpoint. The only part I really mind about Rey doing a Jedi mind trick is that she knows how to say it; would have preferred if she did it in a more unrefined way.
 

NOLA_Gaffer

Banned
Star Wars Episode VII.
With Rey as Luke Skywalker.
Kylo Ren aka Benny as Darth Vader.
Poe Dameron as Han Solo.
Supreme Leader Snoke as the Emperor.
Starkiller as the Death Star #II
Han Solo as Han Solo.
BB 8 as R2D2.
Luke Skywalker as Obi Wan kenobi.
FN-2187 as "Stormtrooper traitor"
Maz Kanata as Master Yoda

Chewbacca was robbed.
 
Did you forget when Luke when from struggling to do anything Yoda said to running around a swamp doing flips and shit?

Yoda also said it isn't really muscle or technique that makes you a great Jedi...
It's believing in yourself and letting yourself be open (while in the moment/calm) to the force.

Don't try to lift the X-wing, just do it! Nike(C)
 
This is what I never got in the original trilogy. How did Vader get bested by a kid who was lifting rocks in a swamp?

Kylo Ren, like you said, is a padawan, so a padawan facing another padawan makes much more sense than a padawan facing an experienced Sith Lord.

Luke always doubted what he could do with the force so his power were somewhat weak unless, he was convinced in to it.

Yoda taught him anything was possible when he lifted the Xwing...
"I don't believe it"; "That is why you have failed"

After that scene, Luke opened up tremendously. He was levitating Rocks, R2, and seeing into the future.

His disadvantage was he discovered these new possibilities to late, because he immediately quit his training to face Vader after he had his vision.

Between ESB and ROTJ, Luke took what he learned from Yoda and continued training proper on his own. The PT wants you to believe Jedi training is lightsaber training, but Luke had had Force training from the grand master himself. If you let the Force in, the Force will guide you. And Luke being the son of Anakin, taught by Master yoda, and finally having his eyes and mind open to the limitless power of the Force, he advanced like the genius he was.

How did he beat Vader, Like the movements in the swamp when Yoda was on his back, or when he was levitating R2 and having visions, he let the Force guide him. Only unlike in ESB where his training was brief, He had a lot more experience, maturity and confidence in himself.
 

TaterTots

Banned
Pretty sure Luke leaves because he is searching for the Jedi temple. The film does not explain why, but I'm sure we'll know in the next installment. As far as Han goes, he's always had a "fuck it" attitude, so I can imagine him making some coin and falling back into old habits after his life fell apart. I have a suspicion that Rey was trained to a certain degree, maybe by Luke himself. Only time will tell with that theory.

My other guess is that Ren did something terrible at Luke's academy. That why I believe he is in search of the temple. Maybe Snok is too much for him? Anyway, just seems like you wanted everything answered in the first movie of a trilogy.
 

jeremy1456

Junior Member
That's gonna be some MAJOR BS if they try to redeem Kylo Ren in VIII or IX.

I can't believe that Leia would ever forgive her son for killing her true love Han Solo.

They are probably going to in episode IX where he saves Rey from Snoke who has failed to bring her to the dark side.
 
I can't say I'm surprised to see how big this thread has gotten. Reading through it, I see that some of you have put up fair arguments (while a few others have put up less-than-intelligent ones).

I'm seeing a lot of people repeating the same arguments, so I'd like to spin this discussion in a different direction by offering up another major issue I have with the film.

I'd like to address just how rushed The Force Awakens is when it comes to its new characters.

Here's a scene that I feel accurately reflects this particular gripe that I have with TFA:

Rey and Finn have just escaped Jakku aboard the Falcon. There's finally a moment of downtime; a moment ripe for some substantial character development. The film's 'heroes' finally introduce themselves to each-other.

"I'm Finn." "I'm Rey."

At last, we'll learn something about these characters, right? They'll learn interesting things about each other.

Rather than go this route, the writers instead opt for having the Falcon malfunction at that exact moment. It loudly spits steam from its mechanical underbelly, interrupting Rey and Finn's first quiet moment together, and consequentially triggering them to action.

If this scene could speak: "Hey, you two! What are you doing talking over there? This is a Star Wars movie, remember? Get over here and start doing all of those Star Wars things that we all remember!"

Rey and Finn never really share those essential character-defining moments. They're constantly fighting to survive, and the film mistakes this for genuine bonding.

Because of this, I find scenes like Rey's abduction at the pirate planet difficult to watch. When Finn sees Rey being carried into Kylo Ren's starship, he stops everything that he's doing to dramatically sprint in her direction, stop, and yell out "REYYYYYY!!!!"

How much does Finn know about Rey at this point? He doesn't know that she was a scavenger fighting against an incredibly harsh environment. He doesn't know that she's been waiting for her family for most of her life. He knows NOTHING about her, except that she can handle herself in a fight and is mechanically-inclined.

Emotional moments like these are not earned. And there's a handful of moments like these stringed throughout TFA. The film expects the audience to accept these characters for what they are at the most superficial level: A lonely scavenger and a Stormtrooper who has a moral compass.

Think about it. Besides Rey choosing to save BB-8 and Finn deciding to not leave with the pirates, what character-defining choices do we see them make? The writers choose to supply us with the absolute minimum amount of information possible about these characters, because there's no time. We just see them fighting hordes of enemies together, and apparently, that's enough to get us to 'relate' to them.



It's just lazy writing.
 
Finn is fantastic as the male lead, with the whole defecting from the Stormstoopers and nervous fish out of water situation. I'd say he is equal to Luke as Luke was the best of the original trio.

While Fin´s character was ok, the way he turned quickly on his stormtroopers friends after being taken when he was child is absolutely ridiculous and damn disappointing. I mean the whole reason they take you as a child is to brain wash you and make you a mere puppet who obeys orders, not just defect at the first sight of a massacre. The lack of development in that regard was none existent. He should not have escape at first sight, but gradually. Pretty dumb and fast none development for Fin´s character.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I can't say I'm surprised to see how big this thread has gotten. Reading through it, I see that some of you have put up fair arguments (while a few others have put up less-than-intelligent ones).

I'm seeing a lot of people repeating the same arguments, so I'd like to spin this discussion in a different direction by offering up another major issue I have with the film.

I'd like to address just how rushed The Force Awakens is when it comes to its new characters.

Here's a scene that I feel accurately reflects this particular gripe that I have with TFA:

Rey and Finn have just escaped Jakku aboard the Falcon. There's finally a moment of downtime; a moment ripe for some substantial character development. The film's 'heroes' finally introduce themselves to each-other.

"I'm Finn." "I'm Rey."

At last, we'll learn something about these characters, right? They'll learn interesting things about each other.

Rather than go this route, the writers instead opt for having the Falcon malfunction at that exact moment. It loudly spits steam from its mechanical underbelly, interrupting Rey and Finn's first quiet moment together, and consequentially triggering them to action.

If this scene could speak: "Hey, you two! What are you doing talking over there? This is a Star Wars movie, remember? Get over here and start doing all of those Star Wars things that we all remember!"

Rey and Finn never really share those essential character-defining moments. They're constantly fighting to survive, and the film mistakes this for genuine bonding.

Because of this, I find scenes like Rey's abduction at the pirate planet difficult to watch. When Finn sees Rey being carried into Kylo Ren's starship, he stops everything that he's doing to dramatically sprint in her direction, stop, and yell out "REYYYYYY!!!!"

How much does Finn know about Rey at this point? He doesn't know that she was a scavenger fighting against an incredibly harsh environment. He doesn't know that she's been waiting for her family for most of her life. He knows NOTHING about her, except that she can handle herself in a fight and is mechanically-inclined.

Emotional moments like these are not earned. And there's a handful of moments like these stringed throughout TFA. The film expects the audience to accept these characters for what they are at the most superficial level: A lonely scavenger and a Stormtrooper who has a moral compass.

Think about it. Besides Rey choosing to save BB-8 and Finn deciding to not leave with the pirates, what character-defining choices do we see them make? The writers choose to supply us with the absolute minimum amount of information possible about these characters, because there's no time. We just see them fighting hordes of enemies together, and apparently, that's enough to get us to 'relate' to them.



It's just lazy writing.


I think you make a great point.

It's not as if Rey and Finn need a 20 minute Tarantino-style discussion. They just need the requisite Disney/Marvel level of back and forth banter over their situation to say "these people have bonded", and we don't really get it.

There are a lot of big problems in this movie that could have been fixed with really small additions of dialogue. I believe they were in the script or on the cutting room floor, and they got lost in the shuffle during the rush to a final cut.
 

munchie64

Member
Rey and Finn never really share those essential character-defining moments. They're constantly fighting to survive, and the film mistakes this for genuine bonding.
The thing is though that the fighting to survive makes for great bonding. The scene immediately following your example is one of the best in the movie because of how the character's play off each other.
 
The thing is though that the fighting to survive makes for great bonding. The scene immediately following your example is one of the best in the movie because of how the character's play off each other.
So, you're saying:

Humorous banter when in the face of danger =/= Strong character writing

I'm afraid I do not agree.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom