more tweets without the actual data to back it up...
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UK Labour Leadership Crisis: Corbyn retained as leader by strong margin
- Thread starter Hazzuh
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more tweets without the actual data to back it up...
Huw_Dawson
Member
Yes, we had two separate fifteen minute questions instead. The modern PMQs, and what it currently serves as - a single big weekly public tussle between government and opposition parties - was a Blair invention.
Huw_Dawson
Member
The ideal for LDs is for the votes we lost to the Greens, Labour and the Tories head back our way, we provide a clear voice for first and second time voters, and maybe UKIP has one more election in them to further depress Tory and Labour numbers. And of course to have the next election before the boundary review.
We've come quite a long way in the year since the GE - hopefully us being able to retake a lot of seats we should never have lost would help the fight against the Tories.
Labour are toast in general, though, which is the chief issue. The SNP effectively block Labour having any chance at all north of the border. Without those seats Labour can only enter coalitions, within reason.
A pretty decent article I stumbled upon:
https://medium.com/mosquito-ridge/corbyn-the-summer-of-hierarchical-things-ab1368959b80#.yyznvyjnm
https://medium.com/mosquito-ridge/corbyn-the-summer-of-hierarchical-things-ab1368959b80#.yyznvyjnm
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Why is the SNP so popular in Scotland, other than the fact that they are are comparatively sane compared to the other parties and have only got a couple of stupid/controversial policies I can think of, which are airgun licensing and Named Persons? I would hope the LDs recover as well, liberals need a voice.
Because during the referendum the SLabour party held hands with the SConservative party.
Labour could no longer be "Not the Tories" so a different party is now "Not the Tories"
OriginalThinking
Member
I'll need to dive into the named persons policy but I'm not sure what the issue with air guns is. I don't see an issue with licenced guns unless it's a situation where the costs outweigh the benefits. I do know a friend who is a High School teacher who won't vote SNP because they have an education policy which she doesn't see as useful. She does think Scottish Labour have a better education policy but has serious reservations about the rest of the party.
Yet people are still complaining that Corbyn didn't cosy up to Cameron during the EU referendum
Royal_Phalanx
Member
For airguns specifically, I have a problem with it because there are plenty of laws to regulate use of them and their power is strictly limited for air pistols and rifles. They're not real firearms so don't need to be treated like them. You can buy crossbows that are much, much more powerful. Costs far outweigh benefits here with very few people misusing them. Don't see BB guns and the like needing firearms like regulation, gun crime is already extremely low as it is. The existing system works fine, why change things?
Things like this will end up being licensed like firearms in Scotland, whilst from this Canadian site you can just buy one if you live in Canada:
https://www.replicaairguns.ca/palco-blackwater-bw1911-r2-semi-auto-co2-airgun
I'm into airsofting and airgun plinking which is a cheaper alternative to archery for me (don't have to join a club for loads of money) so I may well be extremely biased, though.
I mean, maybe Labour electorally suffered in Scotland (I think this is wrong, the whole reason you had a referendum in the first place was that SNP was ascendant), but they won that referendum. They didn't win this one.
CyclopsRock
Member
I don't think that's it. Or, rather, that's not the whole story. The SNP held a majority in the Scottish Parliament (under PR!) long before the referendum.
ultratruman
Banned
That's right. The true secret of SNP's success is: they're a historically right-wing party that has adopted left-leaning sympathies.
Though obviously more left-leaning than our southern friends, the Scottish electorate still consists largely of educated, middle class people worried about their pensions and looking for responsible, sober governance. They hit the right note politically for most Scottish people.
The complete collapse of SLAB as a serious political entity gave them the opportunity to do this, and they took it.
Trickytoon
Neo Member
What is this statement based on? A genuine question and I'm not trying to antagonise you, just generally interested in what activities have been undertaken to support this conclusion.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
That's because much of the professional classes abandoned Labour for the SNP. However, post-referendum polling shows a severe dive in Labour voting intention, and the cross-breaks seem to confirm that was the more working class elements, who'd previously avoided the SNP perhaps due to stronger tribalist ties, abandoning ship. If that happened to Labour in the north, they'd be over as a party.
Are they? All I've heard is disappointment that he didn't do more to show support for the remain argument from within the Labour ranks which he could easily have done without ever coming close to Cameron.
The little I saw of the Labour campaign actually focused on the positives of being in the EU, so it's a shame that it didn't get more traction in the publicly perceived remain agenda.
It's hard for a more nuanced position to gain much traction when you have Cameron threatening WW3 and Osborne saying the global economy would collapse.
https://www.facebook.com/PeoplesMom...41829.155710354774360/293121831033211/?type=3
Oh dear they mustve hired trump's pr manager...
Oh dear they mustve hired trump's pr manager...
Interesting article by Owen Jones who shares many of my thoughts:
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...right-shambles-jeremy-corbyn-questions-answer
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...right-shambles-jeremy-corbyn-questions-answer
Anyone seen this facebook post by Thangam Debbonaire MP for Bristol West?
https://www.facebook.com/thangam.debbonaire/posts/10157204442320083
It makes Corbyn look like a clueless leader
https://www.facebook.com/thangam.debbonaire/posts/10157204442320083
It makes Corbyn look like a clueless leader
I hate to say it, but I'm not surprised by that post. Corbyn does seem to talk the talk, but his lack of publicity in the EU referendum did seem to suggest that he wasn't exactly leadership material in getting himself out there to the general public, not just the people that like him as a person or for his political views.
Jezbollah
Member
Not just clueless. Callus.
Coriolanus
Banned
Yknow
i was reading what she wrote and nodding along, but then...
which he hasn't done, of course. Or, if he has, google can't seem to find it.
Which puts the veracity of the rest in question, sadly.
Randy Lanzarote
Member
Probably referring to this appearance on Andrew Marr:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...byn-winning-general-election-Andrew-Marr-show
Coriolanus
Banned
Id seen that in my googling around, and nowhere in it does he state that his priority isnt winning election.
Thus, she is either lying about it, or she didnt even go through the trouble of fact-checking what people say he says, which would be quite a silly thing to do indeed, given how she reacts to that statements in her text.
Given that id like to assume that labour MPs are at least somewhat competent about processing their info..
He totally fails to actually coordinate with the whips either from what I've heard. Utterly incompetent.
Huw_Dawson
Member
A significant amount of new members, a return to our core values and a focus on optimism has lead us up the polls by a good few percentage points. We're back to winning local council elections in seats we used to hold, too - we just won four elections on Thursday.
With the exception of everyone being gloomy about Brexit, we're cheery and looking forwards to the future. It's a good time to be a Lib Dem.
EDIT: Speaking of the LDs, Farron's on record as saying he's leaving 'nothing off the table' as he pursues a realignment of the left - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-party-out-of-post-brexit-chaos-a7141906.html
AKA he's not opposed to a centre-left coalition or a new party.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Are people even taking Eagle seriously? Personally I can't after that hilarious Failure to Launch.
I already knew she was a joke beforehand, but I don't think anyone is taking her that seriously what with the questions she's being asked.
PJV3
Member
The launch wasn't her fault but I just assume whoever takes the role now is just a get Corbyn out candidate.
No improvement and they will go if the PLP wishes it.
This is a great article about how distorted the media has been regarding Corbyn.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/07/jeremy-corbyn-media-coup-bbc-labour
Read the whole thing, its worth it.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/07/jeremy-corbyn-media-coup-bbc-labour
Read the whole thing, its worth it.
While I still think after brexit it became more than being about people disliking and wanting to oust Corbyn.
I'm in agreement with the media situation. The BBC I don't really have many complaints about personally. However everything else, it's ridiculous how much of a monopoly there is and I still don't understand why nothing has been done.
Well yes, I did say the media was a problem.
It was a problem for Brexit as well, the majority of the media was pro Brexit, and no doubt that helped the campaign massively.
That site has an article saying as Marxists we should resist Pokemon Go.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/07/pokemon-go-pokestops-game-situationist-play-children/
That doesn't really help the image of hard-Left living in a reality bubble.
Did you actually read it? It seemed pretty on point to me. Its making the exact point you are leveling at the hard left, that some people are living in a bubble. It also addresses the "its just a game" defense.
shinra-bansho
Member
Yeah, she probably didn't even have cancer.
The Guardian misquote regarding Corbyn (not) comparing Israel to ISIS is particularly disappointing. I'm still not happy with him as a leader though, and there's no one on the Left that I could identify as being at all suitable for the role of PM.
I've seen this criticism come up through an acquaintance on Facebook. I think that article is a bit overzealous and pompous (although I think there is an interesting, albeit smaller, point to be made at the heart of it). But what of it that Jacobin chooses to publish that piece alongside its other content? Either you argue that we should think about nothing else except ending world famine and poverty until those issues are resolved, or you acknowledge that social movements can (and should) have the capacity to deal with a range of matters at once. (Plus, by that same logic, conservative moments can silence feminist writings on representation for being unjustifiably frivolous.) I'd be concerned if Jacobin devoted 10 articles to critiques of Pokemon Go while ignoring anything else, but, as it stands, it doesn't.
It was very silly of him to publish it with that title. (assuming it's not editorialised)
It's getting shared around as a looney leftie telling us we should have fun when it's not exactly what the article is saying. I do agree though that it is very pompous. It actually reads rather like some of the silly "Thomas the tank engine is racist" type stuff you see on CIF that the graun only publishes as clickbait.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
Who are these people that dislike Corbyn? I am yet to find a personthat I've personally talked to that dislikes him.
I don't dislike him but for the good of the country i don't want him in charge of the opposition.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Well if what Debbonaire says is true, I don't like him.
Politics is a profession. I know we hate the idea, but the fact is being a successful politician and running a political party, even a small one, requires a huge skill base. We don't expect someone to walk off the street and take over a major company, and yet we think that anyone at all should be capable of managing one of the countries two largest parties and all that entails.
It's madness. None of Corbyn's inner circle have ever managed a tea party nevermind a major political function. They;'re careers have been made as protest politicians - and that's great, we *need* them to keep people like Blair and Cameron honest. But you don't let them run the party - they simply aren't capable of it. They don't have the skills or knowledge at all, and it's not a job you can pick up as you go.
It's interesting that the Tories recognised this and ran a mile from Andrea Leadsom. If only labour had some means to demonstrating that the MP base didn't have any confidence in a leader...
It's madness. None of Corbyn's inner circle have ever managed a tea party nevermind a major political function. They;'re careers have been made as protest politicians - and that's great, we *need* them to keep people like Blair and Cameron honest. But you don't let them run the party - they simply aren't capable of it. They don't have the skills or knowledge at all, and it's not a job you can pick up as you go.
It's interesting that the Tories recognised this and ran a mile from Andrea Leadsom. If only labour had some means to demonstrating that the MP base didn't have any confidence in a leader...
gutter_trash
Banned
people who want Conservatives to lose
I don't see Corbyn as a winner capable of swaying fence voters enough to give Labour the seats needed to defeat the Tories in the next election
ideological purity is a cul-de-sac
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
After reading all the tell all's in the last week, its clear to me Corbyn isn't fit to lead an opposition let alone a country. It just sounds like he can't be arsed doing the actual work and is constantly treading on really quite important initiatives toes just with his own opinion and sinking months of hard work.
Wish he'd get the fuck out of the way, and Eagle too.
Wish he'd get the fuck out of the way, and Eagle too.
In theory, great.
In practice, they make fuck all difference, we still went into an illegal war, the consequences of which we're still struggling to deal with now, and we still had to put up with 6 years of crushing austerity for no practical reason other than "because fuck the poor"
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