Digital Foundry PS4 Pro Launch Coverage Begins
- Thread starter Jonboy
- Start date
Japan Studio was support not dev on Bloodborne. People need to chill out with Bloodborne sign some petitions or both Shu on twitter but that still won't force From to do the work.
I wonder how well received the Scorpio would have been if it had released in 2013 at $650 or $700. I don't think people realize that costing a machine is super important and that Sony aren't about losing a bucket of cash on hardware anymore.
If you say so.
Great reply.
This guy know a few things.
Wow I can barely recognize him lol.
Go ahead and keep trying to degrade the checkerboard rendering as much as you want; it won't change the fact that it has exceeded expectations and impressed those that have seen it. It's effective technology, and far better than a simple upscale.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Upscaling in the industry is generally accepted to mean reconstruction of the missing detail from lower resolution to higher, using just a single image as a source of data. In the case of checkerboard rendering, a lot more than just a single frame is being used to reconstruct a final image. For example, you wouldn't be able to have an outside processor box that does some hypotherical checkerboarding, like you can with upscaling. It has to be part of the rendering pipeline due to all the data it requires.
This guy know a few things.
My first full time boss. AKA "The Master"
Theonik
Member
How the hell has Richard aged this much in ~18 years?This guy know a few things.
That's a long ass time.
It is still upscaling. That is what the word means. It is faking a higher resolution by filling it with calculated differences. Nobody cares about your buzzwords.
Go ahead and hype checkerboard as much as you want; it won't change the fact that it is not native and only upscaling.
Last_colossi
Member
You answered your own question.
do you at least agree that it provides a much better result than a simple 1080p to 4K upscale?
Brad Grenz
Member
That's not what the upscaling means at all. A no point is anything "scaled" during checkerboard rendering. Your claim is demonstrably false.
Theonik
Member
It's not thaaaaat long.
Actually it's not, it's resizing a digital image. The frames here are not resized, instead, the technique is part of the rendering process.
Please go on and tell me how. How is not making something go from a smaller resolution to a larger one, not scaling?
Show me a practical example of something going from a smaller resolution to a lagrer one by not scaling. I don't think you people understand what the word "scale" means.
samueljustice00
Member
Games. Industry.
That euogamer article says that Pro doesn't have the power to do native 4k, and then lists games doing native 4k. I guess they mean native in EVERY game or maybe MOST games, but I doubt we'll see that on any console for a while. Still don't get native 1080 in every game on PS4 lol.
Hindsight is always 20/20. Going in, Sony never expected MS to be that much less powerful and that much more expensive. Nobody did.
Hindsight is always 20/20. Going in, Sony never expected MS to be that much less powerful and that much more expensive. Nobody did.
The result of checkerboarding does give a better result than just straight up scaling via a TV scaler and such, but it is still scaling. I'm not arguing with results here.
Checkerboard rendering is an upscaling technique since the PS4 Pro's GPU isn't powerful enough to generate all the pixels required for a native 4K image on most games. Therefore the checkerboard rendering is used to "fill in the blanks" to upscale the image to 4K.
Last_colossi
Member
What's your point anyway?, Checkerboard rendering may not be the same as native rendering but either way it will offer a smoother image than standard 1080p, there is no arguing that and when playing games at 1080p most games on the Pro offer super sampling which far exceeds the standard anti-aliasing techniques being used most PS4 titles.
I have no doubt the Pro will offer beautiful image quality, my only concern is FPS.
Brad Grenz
Member
There is no smaller resolution involved in checkerboard rendering. Pixels are instead rendered using different techniques, half rasterized and half reconstructed.
I haven't mentioned a word about super sampling, which is a great feature if it actually does it for 1080p users. I really hope FPS is a focus myself. This is what they should focus on in my opinion.
Brad Grenz
Member
Nope. Your conclusion does not follow from the evidence. You are misusing the term "upscaling".
Take one image from a lower resolution to a higher resolution using some algorithm - you scaled that image.
Take 4 images from a lower resolution and paste them together side by side, to create a single high resolution image - you didn't scale an image.
If it isn't native, it is a lower resolution. Stop eating up PR speak. It doesn't matter if what comes out of the pipeline is 4k, it was something else before that point.
That is not how it works, and I don't know who told you that.
You're describing technical terms you don't understand as PR speak. Please stop.
I didn't describe how any one specific thing works, I just described one way to reach a high resolution image without scaling.
Theonik
Member
Not only that but people are forgetting how badly the Xbox One sold at $499 before they started the firesales.
In the case of these enhanced rendering techniques the intent isn't to take a low resolution image and re-size it to a larger image. What you are actually doing is trying to find ways to produce a 4K native framebuffer, without rendering a full 4K frame. How it differs from simply rendering a low resolution image and scaling it is that we are not purely using the raster image and scaling it. We are instead using an informed reconstruction of a different image. (i.e. your screen isn't receiving a 4K checkerboard)
e: Just out of interest how do you feel about games that render different parts of their pipelines at lower resolutions? Upscales?
Yeah, but what on earth does that have to do with checkerboarding?
Edit: sorry, I forgot to tell you to please stop.
Brad Grenz
Member
You should refrain from lecturing people about technology you don't understand. The whole point of checkerboard rendering is that it never was "something else" before the final image is created.
BigEmil
Junior Member
The amount of people who's not even gonna buy the PS4 Pro but come into all these threads just to downplay anything of it as much as they can through multiple threads is ridiculous lol
I understand that checkerboarding is generating a part of the image that isn't actually there. It is upscaling in the sense that it makes up shit. It doesn't matter how it does it. It is a 4k image of something that isn't 4k. That is the whole point.
ITT: People who don't understand technology.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Technical words mean what people generally agree for them to mean. Checkerboard rendering is generally agreed to not be the clumped together with upscaling. And if you really want to be pedantic with the word meanings, you really don't 'scale' things at all during this process - you fill up holes.
UpUpDownDown
Member
Please describe games that have images where parts are actually there. Whatever that means.
Figured as much.
I could paint you a picture, but you might chop it up and fill in the blanks.
Confused Cheeseburger
Member
Infamous got a performance option? Shit I don't have time to play it again but, BUT...
Hexa
Member
Checkerboard rendering has the same buffer resolution at the beginning as it does at the end. There is no scaling involves, which is what the word upscaling actually means. "Making up shit" has nothing to do with upscaling. Hence, the word upscaling can not apply. Using the word "upscale" is factually wrong. Simple.
Is it as good as native? Obviously not because it's rendering half the pixels. How does it compare? IDK. I guess we'll see when we get more PS4 Pro footage.
Would you consider pretty much all streaming video lower resolution than they state? What's being done with checkerboard rendering could actually be compared to the compression tech that's used for video streaming though they're obviously oriented towards very different uses. They both involve either rendering fewer pixels or rendering fewer pixels and reconstructing the rest. And just like with streaming compression algorithms, I'm sure quality may vary from implementation to implementation of CB.
As I said. I don't care where it does it in the pipeline, but if it is rendering stuff that isn't really there it is scaling. It is "making up shit" at some point, and that is my point.
Yes
mordecaii83
Member
You really don't know what you're talking about and throwing out the "upscaling" term to cover a number of things that are not upscaling at all.
Yes, everyone gets that it's not native 4K, but it's also not traditional upscaling and will look vastly better. Hopefully we can all agree with that.
Hexa
Member
That has nothing to do with upscaling. The term scaling doesn't encompass everything that isn't native. It only encompasses changing scale.
OK. I guess if you really want to you can define upscaling however you want. Your definition is very different from the generally used definition. But as considering this there's no point in arguing this point any further and any arguments will just go around in pointless circles, carry on I suppose.
Okay, so it's 4K but put through a compression filter akin to MP4. Is that better?
AsylumBlue
Member
I'm partial to 4Kinda.
SimpleCRIPPLE
Member
I could get behind this. Just like 1080pr. That one was solid as well.