Horizon Zero Dawn livestream

The one game I'm actually getting a feel off from this title is Red Dead Redemption. I like how Aloy's movement feels heavy, there's shooting and bullet time, and the environments looks beautiful and fun to explore. The RPG mechanics are just the icing on the cake.
 

Loudninja

Member
I've seen videos where players have been shooting fire arrows at Watchers, even in the eye and it takes like 10 to kill one.

Quite frustrating to watch because if they simply changed arrow type, they'd get one/twoshot in their weak point. A lot of the time I think its down to this and the weak points of enemies not properly being exploited.
Btw some watchers are stronger than others and want fall with and eye shot.
 

Mifune

Mehmber
It all looks incredibly bland to me. I'm sorry but as much as I try I cannot fathom why people think this looks good. From a technical standpoint it looks good, but artistically it looks generic as all hell to me. Then there's the gameplay which also looks dime-a-dozen. I don't get it. I'm not trying to be a dick here and troll you guys, I seriously don't see it. What separates this from any other AAA titles?

It's the combination of elements. It's the tight, fun action (supposedly - haven't played for myself obviously) mixed with the quest design you normally find in the type of game that often DOESN'T have tight and fun action.

It's the mysteries of the game world. Where the hell are we? Why are there robot dinosaurs roaming the land? Who is Aloy?

It's the combat itself. Traps, bows, melee. And depending on what materials you're looking to harvest from the robots, you want to attack them differently. Just in the few videos I've seen there's promise of tactics and strategy.

I hear the complaints of repetition and I see it myself a bit. But all we're seeing are small slices designed to show off the combat. It's in the greater-than-the-sum-of-parts effect that the game will really shine. What other open world Action-RPG has the kind of combat usually seen in a more linear action game?
 

silva1991

Member
It all looks incredibly bland to me. I'm sorry but as much as I try I cannot fathom why people think this looks good. From a technical standpoint it looks good, but artistically it looks generic as all hell to me. Then there's the gameplay which also looks dime-a-dozen. I don't get it. I'm not trying to be a dick here and troll you guys, I seriously don't see it. What separates this from any other AAA titles?

This is the fourth or the fifth Horizon thread you posted in saying similar things

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=225939112&postcount=90
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=216406498&postcount=315
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=215924782&postcount=401


You don't like it and that's fine. I don't think it's possible to convince you why people are anticipating it.
 

KooopaKid

Banned
If you are referring to me, it is because I have been interested since this game was announced (Robot Dinosaurs sounds cool as fuck), and I used to actually like open-world games (ACreed, Far Cry, Skyrim, Fallout, GTA, Witcher 3, etc.) And not liking open-world games is a relatively recent phenomena for me. Also just because I wasn't excited by the game does not mean I should not be able to post in a thread about it. It is also not like I was bad-mouthing the game entirely, I gave credit where credit was due, while also talking about the stuff that doesn't appeal to me.

I mean I did stop responding in the other thread, because I had nothing new to add, and I decided to post in this thread after viewing the live stream where I had new stuff to say. And someone telling people that they should not respond to me is harassment.

And I have been taking a break from gaming besides Overwatch for about a year now.

I get you, you want to be surprised again with an open-world game. This one looks to be one of the most interesting ones in a while with an original setting and some cool hunting mechanics and traps, so you are following it but after watching extended footage, it is indeed quite noticeable that it follows the open-world formula a little too closely and in a very Ubisoft way (Very guided, lots of visual helps, probably repetitive and so on). Should still be good fun.
 

RefigeKru

Banned
Btw some watchers are stronger than others and want fall with and eye shot.

That too.

I tend not to pay much mind to watching other people play games though, I can usually see that their play style won't resemble mine to begin with. From what I've seen, Horizon looks responsive and meaty with loads of options in combat. I'm in.
 
Machines bumping into each other:

SilentKindGraywolf.gif


I think I just have grown out of the genre honestly. Like I really want to be excited for it, but it just seems like I have played this type of game already. And to clarify the enemies remark, I guess I had different expectations for dinosaur robots.

Alright, that's fine.
 
This is the fourth or the fifth Horizon thread you posted in saying similar things

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=225939112&postcount=90
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=216406498&postcount=315
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=215924782&postcount=401


You don't like it and that's fine. I don't think it's possible to convince you why people are anticipating it.
Do people really put this much effort into saying they don't seem to get a game? If I'm not interested or I don't see the appeal of a game at all, I just don't post there.
 
I find it pretty funny that some people who claim they are not interested in the game for various reasons, keep popping up in this and the Preview thread. You guys are spending a lot of time talking about a game you say you don't like the look of......

The game looks incredible, nothing more to say really, apart from bring on release day.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You need to re-read my post, I never just said "It's Bad", there are only 2-3 attack animations the entire game, that never changes, enemy attacks are basic and tactics almost never change.
This is objectively false.

The animations are also terrible, at times geralt will do 4-5 moves and spin around and go somewhere I don't want him to,
This too.

a simple sword swing would have been better.
These exist and are based on context, the context being distance from the enemy.

It's counter-intuitive nor does it control well.
Yes it does if you know what you're doing

They had to patch in better options for controls for a reason. No one is trying to downplay TW3, it's fabulous, combat is a weak point though.
The new controls were for walking specifically, they weren't for combat.
 
This is the fourth or the fifth Horizon thread you posted in saying similar things

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=225939112&postcount=90
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=216406498&postcount=315
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=215924782&postcount=401


You don't like it and that's fine. I don't think it's possible to convince you why people are anticipating it.

You will always get people like this on any game thread. They secretly admire coming into threads they hate :p
 
It all looks incredibly bland to me. I'm sorry but as much as I try I cannot fathom why people think this looks good. From a technical standpoint it looks good, but artistically it looks generic as all hell to me. Then there's the gameplay which also looks dime-a-dozen. I don't get it. I'm not trying to be a dick here and troll you guys, I seriously don't see it. What separates this from any other AAA titles?
It's funny. I was completely on the fence about this game until a few days ago. I love open world games, but it can be easy to get burned out on them. A bunch of details and research over the last week changed my mind

- This is Guerrilla's first open world game. What was the last time a developer completely shifted gears to try a new genre they've never done before? Sleeping Dogs? So many franchises and games in this genre are entrenched in years of structure and routine, so a new challenger in the arena is exciting. For example, the previews and devs have said how the game is more story-driven than the usual open world game and won't have extraneous side activities cluttering the map.

- Guerrilla's biggest strength was always their combat. The feel of the guns, shooting off armor and helmets, Helghast AI, and so on. Now they're bringing that precise action game approach and experience to open world games, a genre that tends to only have decent action gameplay at best.

- Aside from games like Red Dead Redemption or Far Cry, ecosystems in open world games are usually window dressing and almost always take a backseat to "guy with gun". Here, the "animals" are the main event, and between the interaction between different types, the natural animations and varied behaviors, and decent variety, it seems like a refreshing change

- A far future world with robotic beasts and primitive human clans living among the technological ruins of the old world is just really cool, and I'm excited to explore the world, see different settlements and cities. Far future settings are rare in games already, and opting for overgrown beauty rather than ruined wastes is nice.

- Aloy seems like an interesting character
 
This is objectively false.


This too.


These exist and are based on context, the context being distance from the enemy.


Yes it does if you know what you're doing


The new controls were for walking specifically, they weren't for combat.

\It is not false, I like how you never elaborated. he animations are counter-intuitive to player control, and there are the same 20-3 fighting animation...period. The new controls were not just for walking, they were universal across the entire game and all actions and movement, which includes fighting.
 

mortal

Banned
Sounds like you need to read up more then, combat and the game is not repetitive, see all the previews. Think some of you see what you want to see. There is also a lot of adventure, what you are saying goes totally against what people who played the game for 4 hours found. There is also nothing wrong with a game focusing on the action, many games fail at the most important part of games....GAMEPLAY, looks like this game nails it. I am sick of open world games with mediocre combat. IF you want something else there is a lot to choose from that might suit your tastes.
You're being a bit too defensive. I'm not trying to attack the game or call it shit or anything like that. I've seen most of the previews along with this most recent one, which was well over an hour plus of gameplay...

You misunderstand me, aside form some animations issues, I never said there was anything wrong with the action. I just simply wished there were other mechanics to complement the combat, or more varied ways to interact within the game's environments.
With other incentives besides for finding loot or combat purposes. GAMEPLAY would still be the unifying factor, since it could also extend beyond just combative.

With how absolutely terrible many open world games play and control I'm glad there is such a focus on the combat. I'll also add a lot of things you are saying you wish were in the game... are in the game. We have dungeons with a focus on platforming, puzzles and combat, there is environmental exploration as well as platforming and climbing, there is a pretty large amount of agency and reactivity with both the enemies as well as the environment. We've seen logs used as traps, we've seen tree's and a lot of the environment get destroyed and react to the enemies, and so on.
The majority of recent open world games tend to focus on combat as the heart of gameplay. The focus here most likely stems from Guerrilla's history as an action themed game developer. Which looks be well refined in that aspect.
With Horizon being their first non-linear open world game, they are following noticeable current design trends. Which itself it not necessarily a negative, but for me is limiting of a greater experience.

The worlds get bigger and more detailed, the AI gets a little more sophisticated, the IQ improves, but the way I am able to engage them are almost always the same. My agency is limited.

All of the elements you've listed as a variety of interactions, are the same ones I brought up as being too conventional. All of that agency is inservice to combat or finding items to craft for combat.
None of them really serve as their own experience apart, but are systems to supplement the core combative gameplay, which is understandable being an action based RPG.
My issue is the lack of interactivity with an incentive other than that. I would love to see more sandbox styled design.
 
You're being a bit too defensive. I'm not trying to attack the game or call it shit or anything like that. I've seen most of the previews along with this most recent one, which was well over an hour plus of gameplay...

You misunderstand me, aside form from animations issues, I never said there was anything wrong with the action. I just simply wished there were other mechanics to complement the combat, or more varied ways to interact within the game's environments.
With other incentives besides for finding loot or combat purposes. GAMEPLAY would still be the unifying factor, since it could also extend beyond just combative.


The majority of recent open world games tend to focus on combat as the heart of gameplay. The focus here most likely stems from Guerrilla's history as an action themed game developer. Which looks be well refined in that aspect.
With Horizon being their first non-linear open world game, they are following noticeable current design trends. Which itself it not necessarily a negative, but for me is limiting to a greater experience.

All of the elements you've listed as a variety of interactions, are the same ones I brought up as being too conventional. All of that agency is inservice to combat or finding items to craft for combat.
None of them really serve as their own experience apart, but are systems to supplement the core combative gameplay, which is understandable being an action based RPG.
My issue is the lack of interactivity with an incentive other than that. I would love to see more sandbox styled design.

I'll say it again, read some previews, what you are asking for exists in this game......
 

BiGBoSSMk23

A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
I think this post exemplifies what it really is.

People have a natural urge to be included with others. If a bunch of people are excited for something, an individual wants to be excited for it too. If that individual is unable to get excited for something, it must be because A)it doesn't look good and people are excited over nothing or B)the individual is missing something that will suddenly trigger similar levels of excitement.

The latter happening isn't entirely impossible but I think it is more about the former. An individual doesn't like something so they have to make it seem so bewildering how others like it. "There is nothing to be excited about", for example.

I guess it is just hard not to fall into that cycle. I couldn't care less about Halo, for example, partially because I just don't like fps. I'm not going to try and make it seem like there is nothing interesting/exciting/etc... about Halo though. It just isn't for me. People just have a hard time accepting something isn't for them without coming off in the way I explained above.

Exactly. Despite trying the games when I had a 360 and now when i have an xbox one, i just find Halo and Gear of War bland, generic and i just can't get myself to enjoy them. However not once have I ever gone to a Halo thread or Gears of War thread and express that opinion, question and act as if everyone who liked those games didn't make any sense for not agreeing with me.
 
Gameplay I've seen makes it look very "stale", if that make any sense.

Slow and maybe poor combat feedback?

I'm not quite sure what it is, among other things.

This has some of the best looking combat in a open world game .
Animation\ movement for both the aloy and the dinos are really good.
The combat look fast pace but also brutal .
Then there are different ways to combat the dinos from traps , meele , using other dinos , shooting it out with them .
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
\It is not false, I like how you never elaborated. he animations are counter-intuitive to player control, and there are the same 20-3 fighting animation...period.
It's objectively false because not only do more moves unlock based on the way you make a build, (melee builds *gasp* unlock more melee moves), but also the fact that the animation is contextually based on distance from the enemy, each distance has several variations and animations dedicated to them. The more flashy animation data can be cancelled via dodging and are just there to close the distance between the player and whatever they're attacking. That's how animation works in TW3's combat system. The only moves that can't be cancelled are those that have a long startup time. This is why I said you're objectively wrong. Because you seem incredibly misinformed about TW3's combat system. And have been proven wrong in this thread multiple times, first it was that the "combat is too dependent on melee no matter what build you're using," (false), now it's "but there are only 2-3 combat animations," as an animator who paid close attention to TW3's character animation, that's just objectively false. Hell you don't even have to be an animator to see that. It's funny because all of your statements mainly apply to W2 specifically.
 
I can already see where the conversation is heading, I'll give you a hint: its thread got locked.

Isn't there a tree in Aloy's skills that is dedicated to melee or was I dreaming that? One for bows, one for traps, and another one for?
 

Hellshy.

Member
I get you, you want to be surprised again with an open-world game. This one looks to be one of the most interesting ones in a while with an original setting and some cool hunting mechanics and traps, so you are following it but after watching extended footage, it is indeed quite noticeable that it follows the open-world formula a little too closely and in a very Ubisoft way (Very guided, lots of visual helps, probably repetitive and so on). Should still be good fun.

By default this is true but with the ui options you can make it slightly guided with no visual helps.
 

Van Bur3n

Member
I can see myself enjoying the combat in the game, but I'm not sure I can dig the rest. I've never been fond of these sort of pre-historic/tribal settings, even despite the futuristic twist on it. Neither do I find any of these characters particularly interesting, even the main one. They seem rather dull.

I find myself at least more interested in the game than I was before with what I've seen with the game play from the stream and delving into further game play videos, but if the setting doesn't grab me, I likely won't play it.
 

george_us

Member
Evertime I see the game, I am always impressed with the quality of the art, and designs and the world building. Which makes it more disappointing for me seeing how derivative and unimaginative the gameplay is.

Even as an action styled RPG, the gameplay of Horizon looks repetitive and a bit too conventional. From every preview that I've seen, the core gameplay seems to mainly consists of fighting and looting. Will probably have some mild puzzle solving thrown in for good measure. All too familiar trends of contemporary open world game design.
It really diminishes the illusion of an otherwise beautifully realized game world. Even more so with a seamless open world design. The villages have the same typical functions you'd come to expect, but nothing unique really stands out for me. Go to a settlement to stock up, or talk to some NPC's to receive quests or plot exposition.

All of those beautifully unique surroundings, with no other significant ways to interact with it besides fighting and picking up drops.

When I see a world this dense with visual fidelity and detail, I desire more agency as that character within the game. I want more interesting ways to interact with the surroundings beyond the more conventional mechanics likes fighting and looting.
Smaller, more contextually sensitive moments that could better serve to immerse me into the character and the space I occupy as the player. And I don't necessarily mean in the "mini-game" sort of way, but things more nuanced.

I see too much focus on action, not enough focus on adventure. It would be a waste for looks to be potentially interesting game world.

Another smaller issue for me, is how Alloy moves within the environment. Regardless of whether the player is moving through tall grass, rivers or ponds, or up an incline of a hill or cliff, she moves at the same break neck speed. There is little to no animated transition between these conditions.
Or how she doesn't splash or get noticeably wet after entering or emerging from a body of water. It's really jarring and breaks my immersion, because of how detailed the assets and IQ are.
You've summed up all of the nagging issues I have Horizon every time I watch gameplay videos. It's a game that I actually want to be super excited for, but every time I watch gameplay footage I come away with a "This is it?" feeling. Maybe I'm just completely burnt out on open world games. I was hoping the whole "break off a robot and use it against them" would be more prominent but, so far, it seems to be limited to just that robo t-rex thing.
 
When I first saw Dark Souls it looked incredibly bland to me. When I played it, I got hooked. Maybe this game will change people's minds when they actually get to play it too.
 
I just don't understand the need for people to defend the game they are excited about so adamantly against people who remain skeptical of it. Before the game is out it is all based on faith in the developer and the preview footage you've seen,just like it always is. Even most of those "glowing" previews remain restrained, saying that if the game keeps the pace it has for the first four hours it could be really great, but once again they also have no idea if that is the case, for now.

It is obvious that this game borrows a lot from the Ubisoft open world template and there is nothing wrong about that in general. There is a reason why there have been so many of those games; it is a good template, a great template even, but it is also understandable why some people may be fed up with it. Climbing towers was a great feeling in the first two Assassin's creed games, because it was new, it was fun to climb those landmarks as a way to reveal a map, since you were both engaging with the "then-new" parkour system and the exploration of a historical setting which was at the time also relatively fresh and new. But once again I can see how people can be fed up with it all these games later, despite the fact that the tower is masked as a huge, moving dinosaur, even if I think it is a cool design and an idea.

There really is nothing in Horizon shown so far that indicates that it will shake up the open-world formula. To this day, the only game that even gave a hint of something like that is Shadow of Mordor with the Nemesis system, but until Monolith refines it and we see more of it, it remains to be seen if it is the big change the open world games need.

That doesn't mean that Horizon can't be a great, or an even amazing game, it just means it has to rely more on the talent and dedication of the dev team to make all the actions in that open world feel rewarding and satisfying to the player despite them being familiar or/and similar to other games. But, there is no way to know that until the game is actually out.

And there are some even more obvious reasons why some may be skeptical, even now I am still worried about the story and the world-building in this game, and even the "glowing" previews have shown concern about this aspect of the game.

"The Bildungsroman journey of Aloy from outcast, to tribal Brave, to wandering adventurer amidst a post-post-apocalyptic world – initially offers a tantalising sense of mystery. What is this place, what happened to it, and why did Aloy have to work her way back into the tribe in the first place? After, the first three missions, however, I feel pretty confident about exactly where the story's headed, not least because you're quite literally dropped into the ruins of the ”Metal World" in the opening section and bombarded with expositive audio logs."

So, yeah no need for anyone in this thread to be so hostile to people, if you are excited for it great, if you are skeptical about it, there are reasons to be skeptical and you can just wait until the game is out to decide whether it is worth your time and money.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yeah I know but looks like the game have been designed with them in mind. It probably won't be very intuitive without them. We'll see.
The dynamic setting seems to have a gotten a lot of focus based on the stream today.
 
Thank you for your insightful response.

The answer to your questions are answered there, and a lot of what you posted was wrong, but I give up, people will just keep posting the same thing over and over despite evidence to the contrary. You information you seek is out there, not my fault you refuse to seek it out.
 
You've summed up all of the nagging issues I have Horizon every time I watch gameplay videos. It's a game that I actually want to be super excited for, but every time I watch gameplay footage I come away with a "This is it?" feeling. Maybe I'm just completely burnt out on open world games. I was hoping the whole "break off a robot and use it against them" would be more prominent but, so far, it seems to be limited to just that robo t-rex thing.

For the smaller robos it won't make sense breaking off parts of them to use vs them .
Since after a while they most likely going to be easy to kill.
Still you can hack them and let them fight for you which much better IMO .
 

Betty

Banned
Underwhelming demonstration, I think I liked the game when it seemed more action packed and straightforward in the reveal.

I didn't understand what people meant about the Ubisoft comparisons but from that hour long demo it looks like so much busywork and grinding.
 
Underwhelming demonstration, I think I liked the game when it seemed more action packed and straightforward in the reveal.

I didn't understand what people meant about the Ubisoft comparisons but from that hour long demo it looks like so much busywork and grinding.
One person in this thread said it was too action focused. You think it isn't action focused enough.

I'm not criticizing your complaint. It is just interesting.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
One person in this thread said it was too action focused. You think it isn't action focused enough.

I'm not criticizing your complaint. It is just interesting.
I assume he's referring to the same feeling people felt when the Division was revealed. Watching some of the early demos it's not super apparent that the game is as much of an RPG as it us compared to all the footage we got this week.
 

KooopaKid

Banned
Watch Ghostrobo vids if you want a good look at the combat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl13gY58bow&t=

The first couple of times it should be interesting to fight new robots to get new parts, but once your inventory is quite filled with materials, why not just get past ennemies and avoid fights to get to your destination. At one point, I can see myself avoiding fights altogether because they get in the way of my goal, just like I did in Okami, fighting became a waste of time fast in that game. It doesn't help the bigger robots seem to be very long to kill, once you upgrade you'll probably kill them faster but what for after the 10th similar fight?
That's the main thing game design wise I'm skeptical about.
 
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